S78 via Hylan Posted November 22, 2016 Share #19026 Posted November 22, 2016 The M23 SBS is useless.Have you ridden it for yourself? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupojohn Posted November 22, 2016 Share #19027 Posted November 22, 2016 Have you ridden it for yourself? Obviously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted November 22, 2016 Share #19028 Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) I mean, unless ridership significantly decreases, I wouldn't call it useless. Even if that were to happen, the bus lanes also help out the multiple express routes which operate on 23 Street. If 5th Avenue bus lanes were more enforced, that'd be great. Edited November 22, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted November 22, 2016 Share #19029 Posted November 22, 2016 I mean, unless ridership significantly decreases, I wouldn't call it useless. Even if that were to happen, the bus lanes also help out the multiple express routes which operate on 23 Street. If 5th Avenue bus lanes were more enforced, that'd be great. Well the M86 has been just "okay". Nothing great... I've been burned with it a few times during rush hour for sure, and even off-peak where two buses come at once and then you have a wait. I also hate how they have one bus packed to the rafters while another bus basically stands behind not trying to pick up anybody. I don't think bunching will improve on the M23 either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted November 22, 2016 Share #19030 Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) They eliminated the two busiest stops: 5th Avenue and Lexington Avenue and I feel SBS service could be better served on longer routes rather than crosstowns with the exception of the 34/A and 14A/D (if it ever gets it). Lexington Avenue was nowhere near the busiest. I've used the M23 during my delivery routes and Lex is not that busy. Park Avenue & 3rd Avenue saw more usage than Lexington Avenue. The Broadway stop is literally across the street from the 5th Avenue stop, so it's not that serious. Also, Broadway sees WAAAAY more usage than the 5th Avenue stop, always have. The busiest stops by far have been at the Far East & Far West Side Avenues. Edited November 22, 2016 by Cait Sith 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19031 Posted November 23, 2016 In more Bx12 news, SBS machines have popped up out of nowhere at the Pelham Parkway/Stillwell Av stop in both directions. There's two machines and the coin collector only a few feet away from the shelter. The only sense I can make of this is that maybe the MTA is trying to go ahead with paulrivera's idea of what could be done with the Bx12 and the public has not been notified as of yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19032 Posted November 23, 2016 lol... Well I saw the M86 ticket crew out and about again last night... This time they had at least SIX guys at Madison and 86th checking buses going Westbound. One of them I've seen before. He checked my ticket over by Amsterdam and 86th on an Eastbound bus. In the latest incident, I was walking over to Madison and 86th to get on an M86 there, but the guy I mentioned earlier was so dense that he originally thought I was on the bus he had just checked, but then realized that I was going to get a ticket for the next bus. Looks like they finally busted some idiot that either didn't realize they needed to get their ticket beforehand, or had their ticket buried somewhere and couldn't find it. Couldn't tell if it was a male or a female, but they were taken off of the bus after sitting there digging around in their wallet looking for their ticket. I want to see more searches done outside of rush hour though, when I've seen people just stroll on as if they haven't a care in the world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupojohn Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19033 Posted November 23, 2016 There was a driver in Co-Op City who let two women board the SBS 12 without a ticket and then let them get off and get a ticket at the next stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19034 Posted November 23, 2016 There was a driver in Co-Op City who let two women board the SBS 12 without a ticket and then let them get off and get a ticket at the next stop. Plenty of drivers do that if the machines are broken. I have a feeling that the B/Os likely know or may be tipped off as to where the inspectors will be. However, the ones on the M86 often tell passengers to make sure that they get a ticket. There are way too many people running to the front to get on and dip. When they read the sign at the farebox they then come to the conclusion that they don't have to pay and put their Metrocards away. Some are likely too lazy to get off of the bus and get a ticket, while others seem so concerned about waiting for the next bus that they'd rather risk receiving a ticket. Really incredible how dumb some people are. The buses tend to run every 10 minutes, even late at night, so the waits usually aren't that bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupojohn Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19035 Posted November 23, 2016 Plenty of drivers do that if the machines are broken. I have a feeling that the B/Os likely know or may be tipped off as to where the inspectors will be. However, the ones on the M86 often tell passengers to make sure that they get a ticket. There are way too many people running to the front to get on and dip. When they read the sign at the farebox they then come to the conclusion that they don't have to pay and put their Metrocards away. Some are likely too lazy to get off of the bus and get a ticket, while others seem so concerned about waiting for the next bus that they'd rather risk receiving a ticket. Really incredible how dumb some people are. The buses tend to run every 10 minutes, even late at night, so the waits usually aren't that bad. The machines weren't broken. I got on at the same stop and got a ticket. This was at the first stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19036 Posted November 23, 2016 The machines weren't broken. I got on at the same stop and got a ticket. This was at the first stop. Then the driver didn't want to wait for them and figured it would be faster to let them get the tickets at the next stop. That also happens a lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrivera Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19037 Posted November 23, 2016 In more Bx12 news, SBS machines have popped up out of nowhere at the Pelham Parkway/Stillwell Av stop in both directions. There's two machines and the coin collector only a few feet away from the shelter. The only sense I can make of this is that maybe the MTA is trying to go ahead with paulrivera's idea of what could be done with the Bx12 and the public has not been notified as of yet. Hey, they're listening to me All kidding aside, I think they would need to have public hearings before they make the Bx12 all-SBS. I have a feeling that the B/Os likely know or may be tipped off as to where the inspectors will be. I think they get tipped off too. I've had otherwise slow drivers floor it whenever the inspectors were out. The buses suddenly (and almost magically) run about 50% more efficiently when this happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19038 Posted November 23, 2016 In more Bx12 news, SBS machines have popped up out of nowhere at the Pelham Parkway/Stillwell Av stop in both directions. There's two machines and the coin collector only a few feet away from the shelter. The only sense I can make of this is that maybe the MTA is trying to go ahead with paulrivera's idea of what could be done with the Bx12 and the public has not been notified as of yet. That's funny. I remember the then Bx12 LTD stopping there. Probably the Mercy students complained 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19039 Posted November 23, 2016 Hey, they're listening to me All kidding aside, I think they would need to have public hearings before they make the Bx12 all-SBS. I think they get tipped off too. I've had otherwise slow drivers floor it whenever the inspectors were out. The buses suddenly (and almost magically) run about 50% more efficiently when this happens. I want to say that the checks are random because they are, but their checks also seem planned at the same time if that makes any sense. Thinking about it, they were checkers last Saturday morning by 3rd and 86th while I was waiting for the express bus. Something else I was thinking about... What a nice way to deal with farebeating... If you have a route like the Bx6 which has rampant fare beating, turn it into an SBS route, have inspectors randomly check and see how many people will suddenly find the money to pay the fare... I noticed this on the Bx41 which I've rode a few times to the Fordham MNRR station. lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrivera Posted November 23, 2016 Share #19040 Posted November 23, 2016 That's funny. I remember the then Bx12 LTD stopping there. Probably the Mercy students complained The machines are all on now but they're not in service yet. The SBS buses could begin to stop there as soon as tomorrow or Friday, it's literally just a matter of activating the fare machines and DOB issuing a memo to the drivers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XcelsiorBoii4888 Posted November 24, 2016 Share #19041 Posted November 24, 2016 4253 and 4268 have the new TV screens. Two on each bus and they are dope. I seen it from my car. Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 24, 2016 Share #19042 Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) (taken from commentary I just started in the shoutbox) Speaking about short turns (where I mentioned a Q65 Goethals av bound bus I saw yesterday whilst on the LIRR in the morning), I brought up the fact that there's been more B12 short turns to ENY av as of late.... Before the fact, they were VERY sparse; to the point where you'd have thought they were only (what I'd dub) "emergency" short turns or something..... I'd like to think that my posts on here about the route triggered such actions, but I've been thinking of another reason as to why this is happening (and I'm inclined to believe that this is THE, as in, sole, reason).... The increase of (mileage) it now takes to turnaround at Alabama for the trip back west.... Non-Revenue mileage folks. Remember that whole cost neutrality bit this agency's been hanging its hat on.... Now that I catch the bus at the 2nd WB stop (when I don't feel like walking up 50 million steps to catch the @ Atlantic), I've noticed even longer waits for buses - to the point where I end up walking up those same 50 million steps anyway.... I'm also noticing more people getting fed up and commence walking down Pacific to wherever they're tryna get to.... One of these days, if I'm in the mood, I want to try walking over to the B60, to take that to the B35 (not that the B60 is the saving grace of anything, as that route has its own set of problems).... I haven't been riding the LIRR out to Atlantic lately, since it seems like the dam Islanders have home games every other day.... Otherwise, I'd do the whole LIRR --> or thing & call it a day..... Yesterday, I walked all the way from New Lots home.... planned on catchin a dollar cab, but once I hit Linden/Church, I said f*** it.... Edited November 24, 2016 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted November 24, 2016 Share #19043 Posted November 24, 2016 (taken from commentary I just started in the shoutbox) Speaking about short turns (where I mentioned a Q65 Goethals av bound bus I saw yesterday whilst on the LIRR in the morning), I brought up the fact that there's been more B12 short turns to ENY av as of late.... Before the fact, they were VERY sparse; to the point where you'd have thought they were only (what I'd dub) "emergency" short turns or something..... I'd like to think that my posts on here about the route triggered such actions, but I've been thinking of another reason as to why this is happening (and I'm inclined to believe that this is THE, as in, sole, reason).... The increase of (mileage) it now takes to turnaround at Alabama for the trip back west.... Non-Revenue mileage folks. Remember that whole cost neutrality bit this agency's been hanging its hat on.... Now that I catch the bus at the 2nd WB stop (when I don't feel like walking up 50 million steps to catch the @ Atlantic), I've noticed even longer waits for buses - to the point where I end up walking up those same 50 million steps anyway.... I'm also noticing more people getting fed up and commence walking down Pacific to wherever they're tryna get to.... One of these days, if I'm in the mood, I want to try walking over to the B60, to take that to the B35 (not that the B60 is the saving grace of anything, as that route has its own set of problems).... I haven't been riding the LIRR out to Atlantic lately, since it seems like the dam Islanders have home games every other day.... Otherwise, I'd do the whole LIRR --> or thing & call it a day..... Yesterday, I walked all the way from New Lots home.... planned on catchin a dollar cab, but once I hit Linden/Church, I said f*** it.... With the so-many miscues between East New York and Grand Avenue a lot of these routes are really underperforming. If the B60 went back to ENY I think it would perform better than the current at GA. Also, while we're on the subject of East NY Avenue being a short turn. 1. that's rare, and 2 I saw a B12 signed up for East New York Avenue while traveling in Flatbush yesterday. Next, while traveling down liberty Avenue last night there needs to be some form of bus service in that section of ENY. if not Liberty, but on Pitkin. Perhaps have a shuttle between ENY Depot and Sheridan/Grant Avenue. Simular to the Spring Creek shuttle. Thoughts..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeLow Posted November 24, 2016 Share #19044 Posted November 24, 2016 With the so-many miscues between East New York and Grand Avenue a lot of these routes are really underperforming. If the B60 went back to ENY I think it would perform better than the current at GA. Also, while we're on the subject of East NY Avenue being a short turn. 1. that's rare, and 2 I saw a B12 signed up for East New York Avenue while traveling in Flatbush yesterday. Next, while traveling down liberty Avenue last night there needs to be some form of bus service in that section of ENY. if not Liberty, but on Pitkin. Perhaps have a shuttle between ENY Depot and Sheridan/Grant Avenue. Simular to the Spring Creek shuttle. Thoughts..... B10 btn BWJ & Grant Ave Sta. via Pitkin Ave. To Grant Ave: From Van Sinderen Ave, left on Fulton to ENY Ave, right on ENY to Junius, left on Junius to Pitkin, left on Pitkin to Grant Ave, left on Grant to . To BWJ: Grant Ave to Glenmore Ave, right on Glenmore to Forbell St, right on Forbell to Pitkin, right on Pitkin to Powell St, right on ENY Ave to Broadway, left on Bway to Van Sinderen, left to . I chose the backdoor in and out of BWJ to avoid the Rocky Horror Picture Show ENY/Jamaica/Pennsylvania/JRP free flow jam session. I tried to figure an angle using Fulton St to avoid the bus pit on Van Sinderen but the ENY/Atlantic Ave/Eastern Pkwy triangle makes efficiency virtually impossible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 24, 2016 Share #19045 Posted November 24, 2016 With the so-many miscues between East New York and Grand Avenue a lot of these routes are really underperforming. If the B60 went back to ENY I think it would perform better than the current at GA. Also, while we're on the subject of East NY Avenue being a short turn. 1. that's rare, and 2 I saw a B12 signed up for East New York Avenue while traveling in Flatbush yesterday. Next, while traveling down liberty Avenue last night there needs to be some form of bus service in that section of ENY. if not Liberty, but on Pitkin. Perhaps have a shuttle between ENY Depot and Sheridan/Grant Avenue. Simular to the Spring Creek shuttle. Thoughts..... Those short turns on the B12 are becoming more common now & there is certainly something to it..... No question the B60 would perform better out of ENY than out of Grand.... Grand av depot is where routes go to go to shit! The route that runs the best out of that depot, is a route with coverage headways... I would not put a bus back on Liberty though... Wouldn't put a bus on Pitkin either (and it would have nothing to do with the )... Way I see bus service in that immediate area, the "void" (if you will) lies in between Penn & the B13... The Q24 currently sees ridership it likely wouldn't because of it..... I mean, there are riders taking Q24's to B'way Junction (within Brooklyn, I'm talkin about) instead of walking up to the .... It won't happen, but w/o question, the B84 would see at least double (which isn't saying much, considering how much usage the route currently garners) the ridership if it ran up to one of the stations.... To your last point.... I wouldn't create a new route running b/w ENY depot & City line.... What I would like to see happen though is a city line - (Flatbush) Junction bus route.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeLow Posted November 24, 2016 Share #19046 Posted November 24, 2016 Those short turns on the B12 are becoming more common now & there is certainly something to it..... No question the B60 would perform better out of ENY than out of Grand.... Grand av depot is where routes go to go to shit! The route that runs the best out of that depot, is a route with coverage headways... I would not put a bus back on Liberty though... Wouldn't put a bus on Pitkin either (and it would have nothing to do with the )... Way I see bus service in that immediate area, the "void" (if you will) lies in between Penn & the B13... The Q24 currently sees ridership it likely wouldn't because of it..... I mean, there are riders taking Q24's to B'way Junction (within Brooklyn, I'm talkin about) instead of walking up to the .... It won't happen, but w/o question, the B84 would see at least double (which isn't saying much, considering how much usage the route currently garners) the ridership if it ran up to one of the stations.... To your last point.... I wouldn't create a new route running b/w ENY depot & City line.... What I would like to see happen though is a city line - (Flatbush) Junction bus route.... It's not a pressing need to have an additional east/west route, which is probably one of the reasons the B12 was pulled back from Liberty/Sheriden to ENY Depot. It's a public convenience MTA doesn't see the need to pay for, but it would be nice to have. The thing about a north/south route btn the Penn Ave/Crescent St void...there aren't even a handful of streets that can cross the Atlantic Ave divider. Logan St is one, Miller Ave is another (and maaaybeee Van Siclen) but usually in order to "cross" Atlantic Ave cars (and bold truck drivers) make use of a couple of U-turns along Atlantic. I'm not sure if there're any others crossing over than those. About your idea of the B84's northern terminal, would you eliminate the route to New Lots for a straight shot to the Crescent St station via Fountain/Flatlands/Crescent, or keep the New Lots connection then continuing on to Crescent via New Lots/Logan/Fulton? Or perhaps you have another station in your cross hairs. Finally, how would you route a line btn Grant/Liberty and Flatbush/Nostrand? Would it serve Gateway Mall or bypass it altogether? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 24, 2016 Share #19047 Posted November 24, 2016 It's not a pressing need to have an additional east/west route, which is probably one of the reasons the B12 was pulled back from Liberty/Sheriden to ENY Depot. It's a public convenience MTA doesn't see the need to pay for, but it would be nice to have. The thing about a north/south route btn the Penn Ave/Crescent St void...there aren't even a handful of streets that can cross the Atlantic Ave divider. Logan St is one, Miller Ave is another (and maaaybeee Van Siclen) but usually in order to "cross" Atlantic Ave cars (and bold truck drivers) make use of a couple of U-turns along Atlantic. I'm not sure if there're any others crossing over than those. About your idea of the B84's northern terminal, would you eliminate the route to New Lots for a straight shot to the Crescent St station via Fountain/Flatlands/Crescent, or keep the New Lots connection then continuing on to Crescent via New Lots/Logan/Fulton? Or perhaps you have another station in your cross hairs. Finally, how would you route a line btn Grant/Liberty and Flatbush/Nostrand? Would it serve Gateway Mall or bypass it altogether? They actually got it right w/ the B12.... Virtually no one used that route past Alabama from the west.... I actually don't think the B84 should even exist, I was using that as a talking point..... But to answer the question, if it were feasible to fill that gap in service b/w Penn & Crescent w/ the B84, I'd keep the connection to the IRT... No sense in having it bypass a subway connection for access to another subway line..... As for a City Line - (Flatbush) Junction route, I haven't thought about an actual routing - as it would likely involve restructuring the network east of Penn to avoid unnecessary layering..... What I can tell you though is that it wouldn't serve Gateway.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeLow Posted November 25, 2016 Share #19048 Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) Liberty Ave was a dead zone. Salvage yards, garages, minor chemical factories and auto parts stores with some residential plots scattered in between. Back then Pitkin Ave was a wide one way running from east to west. Now that it's two-way, throwing a line on Pitkin would almost certainly get more ridership than the B12 did on Liberty. The connections to Q7/Q8 allows travel further east and south into Queens along Rockaway Blvd & 101st Ave respectively, the B13 going north/south and gives & some relief in case of delays and/or service outages. It might siphon off a few riders from B14 but not enough to increase headways along Sutter Ave. Instead of running it to Grant Ave, turn it south and connect it with B15 on Fountain. I believe there are possibilities and benefits to this east/west run. Edited November 25, 2016 by TeeLow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted November 26, 2016 Share #19049 Posted November 26, 2016 Speaking about short turns (where I mentioned a Q65 Goethals av bound bus I saw yesterday whilst on the LIRR in the morning), I brought up the fact that there's been more B12 short turns to ENY av as of late.... Before the fact, they were VERY sparse; to the point where you'd have thought they were only (what I'd dub) "emergency" short turns or something..... I'd like to think that my posts on here about the route triggered such actions, but I've been thinking of another reason as to why this is happening (and I'm inclined to believe that this is THE, as in, sole, reason).... You mean NY Avenue or ENY Avenue (like ENY/Albany or something)? I know you've mentioned NY Avenue in the past (I guess they turn around and start at Clarkson/Nostrand heading eastbound). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeLow Posted November 26, 2016 Share #19050 Posted November 26, 2016 Liberty Ave was a dead zone. Salvage yards, garages, minor chemical factories and auto parts stores with some residential plots scattered in between. Back then Pitkin Ave was a wide one way running from east to west. Now that it's two-way, throwing a line on Pitkin would almost certainly get more ridership than the B12 did on Liberty. The connections to Q7/Q8 allows travel further east and south into Queens along Rockaway Blvd & 101st Ave respectively, the B13 going north/south and gives & some relief in case of delays and/or service outages. It might siphon off a few riders from B14 but not enough to increase headways along Sutter Ave. Instead of running it to Grant Ave, turn it south and connect it with B15 on Fountain. I believe there are possibilities and benefits to this east/west run. Man, this gotta be a bust ass idea. It's so right it doesn't even need discussion. Either that or it's so out there it's bouncing off satellites. Someone stick a pin in my swelled head! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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