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EE Broadway Local

BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

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Has the 2nd Ave line affected the M15?

I would just wait until the entire SAS is built...whenever that is

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1280 and 1281 are unwrapped as of today's sighting. What are in the plans for these units? Possibly going to KB for Bx39 service?

 

Or they could stay at GH for the Bx41 and the rest of the local routes...

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http://web.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/manh/m005cur.pdf

New M5 schedule. Hopefully this makes the M5 much better. 

 

What's the issue with the M55 coming from MJQ? Last time I checked, the M55 and 66 are 2 different animals. That's like saying I have an issue with the B84 coming from ENY or something.

 

Projected run time is just over 30 minutes from Midtown to the Ferry? I find that hard to believe. When I rode the M1 that's how long it took to get from Midtown...to the Village

- The M5 will be alright (logistically speaking).... It's the M55 they're setting up for failure right from the gate! This wasn't even done with the dinky shuttles (B32's, M12's, B84's of the world); every single one of those routes have adequate runtimes b/w their end terminals....

 

- Too much of a fuss on the forum here is/was being made of Quill lately.... For w/e the reason, IDK & I refuse to be bothered with those discussions (it's why I haven't been posting in this thread up until this point).....

 

- 30 minutes from Bryant Park via 5th/Broadway by public bus will likely have you somewhere in SoHo (b/w Houston & Canal)....

 

I guess they are. 

 

At this point though, it would be much better to just make the entire M5 a local at all times, because stops at 58 and 56 Street were added southbound, and 66 Street is now a stop in both directions (it used to be a NB only stop). It makes every stop in the area around Columbus Circle (however, 61 Street is now a NB only LTD stop). At this point, it'll only be a limited for 6-7 blocks in Midtown, the section before getting to Riverside on the Upper West Side, and in Manhattanville. The route only skips 10 stops at this point. I'd rather have it make all stops instead. It's a relatively fast ride from Manhattanville to Columbus Circle anyway (for those trying to get to the subway).

 

If loads get imbalanced in Manhattanville between the M4 and the M5 at that point, have all the M4's in the peak direction operate limited (which doesn't make as many stops as the M5 LTD in Manhattanville).

Hmm....

 

What do you believe constitutes Manhattanville, fam? Because the M5 barely serves West Harlem (as it's dubbed).... Be there as it may, the ridership at 3333 Broadway virtually all goes to the M4 & the M11 - practically nobody in Washington Heights rides past that apartment complex on the M5 from the north.... SB M5's has a tendency to tank, after it turns onto 135th....

 

Turning the M5 into an all local route will have the Washington Heights crowd taking either bus (M4/M5) much more interchangeably than what currently goes on up there (the patronage/preference being for the M5).... What you're saying with all this practically makes the M5 significantly less useful for the most potent riderbase it has left - since the overlapping riderbases the M5 once had at & south of Columbus Circle has partially been handed over to the M55, partially been retained, and likely possibly will be scattered that much more on other modes of transit (the subway, other bus routes, taxi, bike, w/e)....

 

Can't agree that doing that to the M5 would make it better - Especially for the rationale you give....

 

Yeah, the M5 schedule now has it in the 40-50 minute range for most of the day, which seems more realistic for a typical trip....

Whole charade's a joke... Even if the MTA assumes significant ridership losses, the having of buses run on virgin tight runtimes like that is a new low (approx. 1/2 hour b/w some Bryant Park & South Ferry), and I hope this won't become a new trend when it comes to future tinkering of any scheduling changes in the future....

 

How does the M12 do now that's it's been around for a little while?

Gets decent enough usage within West Village/Chelsea, and along 57th.....

It's stint along 11th/12th av's I find to be sorely lacking in usage though (NB service [via 12th] especially).....

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BTW, I guess next pick is when the M1 extension to Worth Street takes effect.

 

Whole charade's a joke... Even if the MTA assumes significant ridership losses, the having of buses run on virgin tight runtimes like that is a new low (approx. 1/2 hour b/w some Bryant Park & South Ferry), and I hope this won't become a new trend when it comes to future tinkering of any scheduling changes in the future....

 

You know I'm thinking: Maybe this is their way of being cost-neutral with the proposal. Remember that originally, the M5/55 were supposed to end by 38th/37th Streets respectively. It's like, alright, we'll extend those routes a few blocks each, but we're going to make sure we're not using any more buses than originally planned, so we'll take out all those savings on the M55.

 

I'd hope that at least, they do something like what is done on the M12 at certain times of the day (cut the runtimes down, but give the buses a longer layover so the delays don't affect service in the other direction). So in other words, say a 1PM trip out of Bryant Park gets to South Ferry at 1:32PM. Instead of being scheduled to come back up as the 1:45PM trip, have it be scheduled as the 2PM trip. So when the bus realistically gets down there around 1:45-1:50PM or so, you have some consistency coming back up.

 

When the layover is too short, you end up with a situation where some B/Os hustle and turnaround and try their best to get back on schedule in the other direction, some B/Os take a 3-5 minute standard layover and then turn around, and then some B/Os say "Screw it, I'm late anyway" and take a 20 minute coffee break.

 

Gets decent enough usage within West Village/Chelsea, and along 57th.....

It's stint along 11th/12th av's I find to be sorely lacking in usage though (NB service [via 12th] especially).....

 

It's funny how in both of those areas, (West Village/Chelsea, and 57th Street), those are the areas with alternatives (the M14D and the M31/57). For me when I took it (on a weekend, granted), I was the only one who got on at 14th & 8th, two people got on at 42nd Street, and then like 6-7 people used it as a short-turn M31/57 along 57th Street to get to Columbus Circle). 

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It's been a minute forums but driving past LGA Airport lately I notice it looks like the PANYNJ has brought back some of the 1991 New Flyer D40LFs they use to run, I guess while all the construction goes on. They are in the current Port scheme and a few look like they got new Twinvision signs. Port painted them in the current scheme before retirement, I don't know if they were put in storage and now taken out or if Port got back some of the buses they sold to Golden Touch for the JFK employee shuttles? Golden Touch is not the contractor running them unless things have changed.

 

Or are these newly purchased D40s?? They did look like the 91s on the outside and the inside that I could see, one of em had no signs at all. These buses have 6V92TAs and that would be something to see back on the road, at least outside JFK...

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It's been a minute forums but driving past LGA Airport lately I notice it looks like the PANYNJ has brought back some of the 1991 New Flyer D40LFs they use to run, I guess while all the construction goes on. They are in the current Port scheme and a few look like they got new Twinvision signs. Port painted them in the current scheme before retirement, I don't know if they were put in storage and now taken out or if Port got back some of the buses they sold to Golden Touch for the JFK employee shuttles? Golden Touch is not the contractor running them unless things have changed.

 

Or are these newly purchased D40s?? They did look like the 91s on the outside and the inside that I could see, one of em had no signs at all. These buses have 6V92TAs and that would be something to see back on the road, at least outside JFK...

 

New Flyer and Gilligs.

 

These are second-hand units from:

 

San Diego MTS

Minnesota Valley Transit Authority

Delaware DART

Crystal Transport (from Massachusetts)

The oldest one (from what I know so far) was built in 1998, a Crystal unit.

 

https://cptdb.ca/topic/17169-port-authotity-of-new-york-new-jersey/

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Hmm....

 

What do you believe constitutes Manhattanville, fam? Because the M5 barely serves West Harlem (as it's dubbed).... Be there as it may, the ridership at 3333 Broadway virtually all goes to the M4 & the M11 - practically nobody in Washington Heights rides past that apartment complex on the M5 from the north.... SB M5's has a tendency to tank, after it turns onto 135th....

 

Turning the M5 into an all local route will have the Washington Heights crowd taking either bus (M4/M5) much more interchangeably than what currently goes on up there (the patronage/preference being for the M5).... What you're saying with all this practically makes the M5 significantly less useful for the most potent riderbase it has left - since the overlapping riderbases the M5 once had at & south of Columbus Circle has partially been handed over to the M55, partially been retained, and likely possibly will be scattered that much more on other modes of transit (the subway, other bus routes, taxi, bike, w/e)....

 

Can't agree that doing that to the M5 would make it better - Especially for the rationale you give....

I was basing it off the M5 schedule, so I believed that Manhattanville was below 145th. 

 

The thing is, the M5 is no longer an actual limited-stop service with all these new stop additions. There's no need to label it an limited-stop service if it's going to make all those extra stops, its worse than the B103 . Routes like the Q35 (which makes select stops on Flatbush) do not even have that designation.  

 

North of 135 Street, 4 stops are being bypassed by the M5 Limited, which I don't believe would make much of a difference if the M5 went local in the first place (and more or less a local anyway in Midtown with the new stop additions, since it only skips 45 Street and 52 Street). Those "Limited" stops are like 2-3 local stops apart from each other. 2-3 minutes of runtime might need to be added, but both the M4 and M5 would be local outside the peak direction during the rush hour, so I don't see as an issue. There isn't enough runtime cut to the point where there is a notable difference in the amount of buses used (compared to the M5 being an all local service).

 

During the peak hour, if all M4's were LTD, while there would be a shift at the limited stops,  M4 riders using the local north of 135 Street would have to use the M5, which is more frequent than the M4 local. The M4 LTD stops are more spaced out than the M5 LTD north of 135 Street, so its not like riders would shift to the M4 just because it runs Limited (during those times).

 

The M4 vs. M5 stops in Hamilton Heights (Manhattanville is south of 135th Street) can be changed. I haven't had much of a reason to use the M5 at my time at CCNY (though I have used the M4 a few times to get up there from Madison Avenue), so I can't say much for the usage of the 140th & 152nd Street stops, but if that's an issue, you can just drop them from the M5.

 

I would personally rather have it bypass 61st Street completely, bypass 56th Street (but stop at 58th Street), and then just stop at 50th, 42nd, 34th, and then the terminal at 31st & 6th. There's enough local buses along both 5th & 6th to make up for those few local stops.

 

 

Okay so I was off with the boundaries of Manhattanville. Thanks for the correction.

 

I don't want to drop the stops full-time. However, with the current addition of stops, it is more or less a local that has two short stints where it does not make all stops (both located on Broadway). You might as well make the bus stop at the 4 stops bypassed in Upper Manhattan, and the 4 stops on the Upper West Side.

 

If they want the M5 to be an actual Limited, they need to eliminate stops. 36, 39, 56 should be eliminated southbound, and like you said, 61 Street be eliminated completely. 38, 40, and CPS/7 Avenue should be eliminated northbound, along with 61 Street (which you mentioned). I don't mind 66 Street being added, but all the other added stops should be eliminated.  

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

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You know I'm thinking: Maybe this is their way of being cost-neutral with the proposal. Remember that originally, the M5/55 were supposed to end by 38th/37th Streets respectively. It's like, alright, we'll extend those routes a few blocks each, but we're going to make sure we're not using any more buses than originally planned, so we'll take out all those savings on the M55.

 

I'd hope that at least, they do something like what is done on the M12 at certain times of the day (cut the runtimes down, but give the buses a longer layover so the delays don't affect service in the other direction). So in other words, say a 1PM trip out of Bryant Park gets to South Ferry at 1:32PM. Instead of being scheduled to come back up as the 1:45PM trip, have it be scheduled as the 2PM trip. So when the bus realistically gets down there around 1:45-1:50PM or so, you have some consistency coming back up.

 

When the layover is too short, you end up with a situation where some B/Os hustle and turnaround and try their best to get back on schedule in the other direction, some B/Os take a 3-5 minute standard layover and then turn around, and then some B/Os say "Screw it, I'm late anyway" and take a 20 minute coffee break.

 

 

It's funny how in both of those areas, (West Village/Chelsea, and 57th Street), those are the areas with alternatives (the M14D and the M31/57). For me when I took it (on a weekend, granted), I was the only one who got on at 14th & 8th, two people got on at 42nd Street, and then like 6-7 people used it as a short-turn M31/57 along 57th Street to get to Columbus Circle). 

With this M5/M55 bit, I figured that more corners would be cut with the resultant southern split over the northern split.... I'd like to know their reasoning as to why they decided to run buses up past Bryant park (seriously doubt it was for the riders benefit) :lol: - Guess we'll find out in one of those notorious PDF's they release every so often....

 

What you're bringing up can be done w/ the M12, since it has a large enough ("unofficial") nonstop portion (quite sure the MTA knows the route picks up a very miniscule amt. of ppl along 11th/12th).... Being a relatively short route w/ barebone service on top of that, it gives you more flexibility to dibble & dabble with layover times....

 

With as congested as the M55's service area is though (on top of [iMO], insufficient runtime), the last thing I expect to happen is an increase of layover w/ the M55.... Like I said in my reply to Q43, they're setting the M55 up to fail right from the start.... There is no way buses are going to maintain that schedule; it's going to be a domino effect of late ass buses all over the place (I wonder if they have dispatchers down at the Ferry; IDK).... I get what you're saying, though....

 

When the layover is too short, you get what's happening in Nassau County.... You just described what's going on w/ NICE bus in that particular paragraph...

---------------------

 

 

I get the sense that the West Village/Chelsea patrons want to patronize the M12 more (e/g, in the same way Greenpoint patronizes the B32), but the M12 doesn't really - go anywhere much of interest; which will stymie future growth from that section of the route..... With 57th st, the M12 is "just another bus"....

 

To sum it up, while the M12 technically serves the far west side (which was the goal), it terminates at two random ass points....

The irony is... How it's actually used :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

.....The thing is, the M5 is no longer an actual limited-stop service with all these new stop additions. There's no need to label it an limited-stop service if it's going to make all those extra stops, its worse than the B103 . Routes like the Q35 (which makes select stops on Flatbush) do not even have that designation.  

North of 135 Street, 4 stops are being bypassed by the M5 Limited, which I don't believe would make much of a difference if the M5 went local in the first place (and more or less a local anyway in Midtown with the new stop additions, since it only skips 45 Street and 52 Street). Those "Limited" stops are like 2-3 local stops apart from each other. 2-3 minutes of runtime might need to be added, but both the M4 and M5 would be local outside the peak direction during the rush hour, so I don't see as an issue. There isn't enough runtime cut to the point where there is a notable difference in the amount of buses used (compared to the M5 being an all local service).

 

During the peak hour, if all M4's were LTD, while there would be a shift at the limited stops,  M4 riders using the local north of 135 Street would have to use the M5, which is more frequent than the M4 local. The M4 LTD stops are more spaced out than the M5 LTD north of 135 Street, so its not like riders would shift to the M4 just because it runs Limited (during those times).

Alright, so you've reemphasized your stance here..... You still haven't explained how making the M5 local (or, dropping the LTD notation) would make the M5 better..... What is the benefit to it?

 

Worse than that, you're making arguments supporting the localizing of the M5 & making an issue out of all the stops being added to the route, at the same time - Which is conflicting....

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Artics are pulled off the road this morning for the most part. Most are using 40' buses, except for the M15 SBS.

 

There's even 2 C40s on the Q10

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Artics are pulled off the road this morning for the most part. Most are using 40' buses, except for the M15 SBS.

 

There's even 2 C40s on the Q10

 

Kingsbridge and Gun Hill artic routes are borrowing some Queens Village buses again.

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Kingsbridge and Gun Hill artic routes are borrowing some Queens Village buses again.

I'm on Metro-North now and Bus#6884 was on the Bx10 running down Henry Hudson Parkway, but not on BusTime. I was shocked to see it.

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Buses are being shifted all over the place these days... I don't know how many buses on routes I've seen this week alone b/w Brooklyn & Queens (area around LIRR Jamaica, to be specific) that didn't have the depot stickers of the depot those routes emanate from....

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Artics are pulled off the road this morning for the most part. Most are using 40' buses, except for the M15 SBS.

 

There's even 2 C40s on the Q10

There's one on the Q60 too.

Alright, so you've reemphasized your stance here..... You still haven't explained how making the M5 local (or, dropping the LTD notation) would make the M5 better..... What is the benefit to it?

 

Worse than that, you're making arguments supporting the localizing of the M5 & making an issue out of all the stops being added to the route, at the same time - Which is conflicting....

Well, riders up in Hamilton Heights and Washington Heights who need to/from the stops the M5 LTD skips would be able to take the M5 without having to walk. If the M5 is more sought for, then it would be beneficial to those ridrers seeking the bus at those stops. Additionally, there would be a greater amount of riders of those riding along 5th Avenue, between 59 and 31st, if the M5 makes all stops (because the bus would serve every stop), and not just some). Northbound, it wouldn't be much of an issue because the M5 and M7 have the same route until about 70 Street, but it would mean more riders being able to take the M5 over the M7 south of 70 Street. 

 

Many riders won't take the M5 the full route. So the LTD is probably only skipping a handful of stops from the trip at best. Since not many people ride it along Riverside Drive, there would be no great savings regardless if the route was local or limited. Anyone riding it south of 72 Street would only bypass a handful of stops, and it's not like dwell time at each of those bypassed stops is enormous to begin with. You're skipping a handful of people who could get on their way at the "local" stops, making it an inconvenience instead.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

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Kingsbridge and Gun Hill artic routes are borrowing some Queens Village buses again.

 

100th St is pulling from Fresh Pond, by the looks of it. The usual MV and Manhattan depot buses are there, but 6492, 6496, 6502-6503, 6523, 6527-6528, 6538, 6542, 6558, 6575 and some others have gone too.

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100th St is pulling from Fresh Pond, by the looks of it. The usual MV and Manhattan depot buses are there, but 6492, 6496, 6502-6503, 6523, 6527-6528, 6538, 6542, 6558, 6575 and some others have gone too.

I'm not understanding why 100th street is pulling from Fresh Pond. Is that Manhattan/Bronx Divisions don't have enough buses to pull from each other. I mean Quill has a decent load of RTS. Again, this is the (MTA) and the Department of buses.

Buses are being shifted all over the place these days... I don't know how many buses on routes I've seen this week alone b/w Brooklyn & Queens (area around LIRR Jamaica, to be specific) that didn't have the depot stickers of the depot those routes emanate from....

The East New York to Jamaica moves are very interesting.

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Well, riders up in Hamilton Heights and Washington Heights who need to/from the stops the M5 LTD skips would be able to take the M5 without having to walk. If the M5 is more sought for, then it would be beneficial to those ridrers seeking the bus at those stops. Additionally, there would be a greater amount of riders of those riding along 5th Avenue, between 59 and 31st, if the M5 makes all stops (because the bus would serve every stop), and not just some). Northbound, it wouldn't be much of an issue because the M5 and M7 have the same route until about 70 Street, but it would mean more riders being able to take the M5 over the M7 south of 70 Street. 

 

Many riders won't take the M5 the full route. So the LTD is probably only skipping a handful of stops from the trip at best. Since not many people ride it along Riverside Drive, there would be no great savings regardless if the route was local or limited. Anyone riding it south of 72 Street would only bypass a handful of stops, and it's not like dwell time at each of those bypassed stops is enormous to begin with. You're skipping a handful of people who could get on their way at the "local" stops, making it an inconvenience instead.

By that logic, there shouldn't be any LTD routes, since riders would be closer to bus stops...

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the benefit of localizing buses because the MTA decided to add a bunch of stops on the M5.... That's like someone stealing cash out my wallet & telling me I'm going to eventually spend it anyway, so I should be okay with it... That's how stupid this sounds to me.... I'm seriously trying to understand this benefit (most others I would have written off & ignored at this point), and it's like you're making a case for added ridership or something....

 

Fact of the matter is, those stops should have never been added in the first place; all this is going to result in, is less riders on the M5 & more on the M4 up there... That's just in the northern section of the route..... All in all, you're supporting an increase in just how supplemental the M5 is going to end up being south of 72nd/Broadway & north of 135th...

 

If adding stops is the MTA's way of trying to quell ridership losses on the resultant northern half of the (old) M5 split with this (new) M5, they're going to be in for some awakening, the way I see it.... Or maybe, just maybe they're making buses that much less useful, so folks can sardine onto subway trains....

 

...and then what?

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