BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's not always a bus shortage. Remember that some Express runs are interlined with Local/Limited runs and that some B/O's will keep the same bus for their next trip thus, saving time rather than switching buses at the depot. Just a few weeks ago, I saw an MCI on the S89.

Whose bright idea was it to set up the runs this way? They weren't doing this back in the day.

[SevenEleven]

8/89 always has an express bus because of the Bayonne Bridge closure. With the reroute via the NJ Turnpike and local buses only doing 40, NJ State Police were making the buses get off the highway. Put one and one together

[S78 via Hylan]

Whose bright idea was it to set up the runs this way? They weren't doing this back in the day.

My buddy from Yukon had something like that a few picks ago:

X9 morning trip, swing for a few hours, two back-to-back school pieces on the S56, and then an afternoon X9.

As for why the runs are set that way, I have no clue.

 

Edit: Seven just explained why.

Edited July 26, 2017 by S78 via Hylan

[MetroTransitTee]

Then what will become of the :bus_bullet_m14a: ?

Guessing not all buses have emoji enabled.

I believe that terminates in a different spot other than the :bus_Bullet_m14d: .

 

Isn't carrying any standees on an Express or Coach bus against federal law?

 

I always thought the was a more worthy candidate too since it operates between two hotspots (Westchester Sqaure and The Hub no pun intended) and like the M14, has a spinoff route, the .

I believe the M14SBS is supposed to be an all new route, keeping the M14A and M14D.

[Far Rock Depot]

Then what will become of the :bus_bullet_m14a: ?

Guessing not all buses have emoji enabled.

I believe that terminates in a different spot other than the :bus_Bullet_m14d: .

 

Isn't carrying any standees on an Express or Coach bus against federal law?

 

I always thought the was a more worthy candidate too since it operates between two hotspots (Westchester Sqaure and The Hub no pun intended) and like the M14, has a spinoff route, the .

The M14A not only terminates at a different location, but the 14D has more ridership.

 

The only law in place is operation while anyone is standing infront of the white line. NJT has standees on their Cruisers all the time. I ride them on their 166 local and the occasional 178 or 186.

 

The Bx4/4A shouldn't be SBS, along with other routes that have already been converted. It seems to me that the MTA has forgotten the actual point of Bus Rapid Transit.

 

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Edited July 26, 2017 by Far Rock Depot

[twilson1160]

I would say no. I see some of them in the Bronx sometimes while on the express bus, and they look incredibly run down. Looks like they just take them off of the SBS routes and put them on the local lines and call it a day.

Look like they starting to repaint 1200's. 1231 was repainted.

 

 

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[Fresh Pond]

 

 

The only law in place is operation while anyone is standing infront of the white line. NJT has standees on their Cruisers all the time. I ride them on their 166 local and the occasional 178 or 186.

There's no standees allowed on the CNG cruisers because of weight restrictions.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

The M14A not only terminates at a different location, but the 14D has more ridership.

 

The only law in place is operation while anyone is standing infront of the white line. NJT has standees on their Cruisers all the time. I ride them on their 166 local and the occasional 178 or 186.

 

The Bx4/4A shouldn't be SBS, along with other routes that have already been converted. It seems to me that the MTA has forgotten the actual point of Bus Rapid Transit.

 

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Not surprised. It's all fun and games till someone breaks their neck.

Coaches weren't designed for standees because of the low ceiling factor.

But standees who do get injured for standing have little legal argument as they never should have.

Knowing NJT and , they'll let people break the rules until they're applied against them in a lawsuit.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

It seems to me that the MTA has forgotten the actual point of Bus Rapid Transit.

 

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That is understandable.

Why Burgundy for bus lanes? Why not SBS blue? To me, burgundy is the color of neglect and urban decay. *cough* NYCHA *cough*

 

The S79 is the best example of that forgetfulness.

 

I kinda think they need to begin investing in Genius handhelds so that people can pay in advance before they board.

the off-board boxes sometimes break down, making it impossible to get a ticket.

 

With those handhelds, all door boarding could be rapidly expanded to any bus type,even Local buses.

My idea would be to have One NYCT employee at every other door swiping them in. Such handhelds can be integrated into the entire system and would be cheaper than maintaining boxes.

 

IMHO, if the MTA wants to genuinely bring MetroCard to mobile, that's a great starting point instead of relying on 20-year-old software.

 

Coin users would have to go to the front though.

[DaTransitMan4608]

The M14A not only terminates at a different location, but the 14D has more ridership.

 

The only law in place is operation while anyone is standing infront of the white line. NJT has standees on their Cruisers all the time. I ride them on their 166 local and the occasional 178 or 186.

 

The Bx4/4A shouldn't be SBS, along with other routes that have already been converted. It seems to me that the MTA has forgotten the actual point of Bus Rapid Transit.

 

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They do, but the CNG cruisers only allow for maybe 1-2 standees at the most, like Turtle said.

 

I agree, however the Bx4/A crawls along Westchester as it is. And I think one factor is all the stops it makes. Maybe it doesn't need SBS, but making a Bx4A Limited could work, as could making the Bx4 local and the Bx4A SBS since that's probably what the MTA would do.

 

 

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[FLX9304]

" I agree, however the Bx4/A crawls along Westchester as it is. And I think one factor is all the stops it makes. Maybe it doesn't need SBS, but making a Bx4A Limited could work, as could making the Bx4 local and the Bx4A SBS since that's probably what the MTA would do."

 

Why does the Bx4/4A need SBS where you have two subway Lines that it parallels it: the 2/5 from the Hub to Simpson St and the 6 from Whitlock to Westchester Sq

 

 

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Edited July 26, 2017 by FLX9304

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree, however the Bx4/A crawls along Westchester as it is. And I think one factor is all the stops it makes. Maybe it doesn't need SBS, but making a Bx4A Limited could work, as could making the Bx4 local and the Bx4A SBS since that's probably what the MTA would do.

 

Why does the Bx4/4A need SBS where you have two subway Lines that it parallels it: the 2/5 from the Hub to Simpson St and the 6 from Whitlock to Westchester Sq

 

 

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Looking at a map really doesn't tell the whole story of the importance of the route and there are a lot of elderly people that simply can't make the trek up those stairs.  Very few of those stations have elevators, let alone ones that function. It seems as if we forget about those who are disabled far too often.  They too have places to go and should have a reasonable commute.  I don't know if SBS makes sense or not, but if the route is that slow, then at least have Limited Stop service.  I have never used either bus, but I do use the BxM6 rather regularly for business over the last year or so to visit clients, and I notice while waiting for the express bus that the Bx4 has horrible headways.  Sometimes while waiting maybe one bus will pass by.  Couple the long waits with the slow speeds and it must be pretty bad.  

[FLX9304]

Looking at a map really doesn't tell the whole story of the importance of the route and there are a lot of elderly people that simply can't make the trek up those stairs. Very few of those stations have elevators, let alone ones that function. It seems as if we forget about those who are disabled far too often. They too have places to go and should have a reasonable commute. I don't know if SBS makes sense or not, but if the route is that slow, then at least have Limited Stop service. I have never used either bus, but I do use the BxM6 rather regularly for business over the last year or so to visit clients, and I notice while waiting for the express bus that the Bx4 has horrible headways. Sometimes while waiting maybe one bus will pass by. Couple the long waits with the slow speeds and it must be pretty bad.

For years, I used to catch the Bx4, but ever since 1998 when the bus route went from Walnut to Gun Hill & a few months later, was the 2nd route behind the Bx12 to be converted to artics, it's been horrible that it was purposed in 2008 for discontinuation, but residence fought to save it. Between Morrison & 167th St, your alternative route is the Bx27 until 8:00p, but after 1:00a, use the subway trains.

 

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

For years, I used to catch the Bx4, but ever since 1998 when the bus route went from Walnut to Gun Hill & a few months later, was the 2nd route behind the Bx12 to be converted to artics, it's been horrible that it was purposed in 2008 for discontinuation, but residence fought to save it. Between Morrison & 167th St, your alternative route is the Bx27 until 8:00p, but after 1:00a, use the subway trains.

 

 

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I think it's absurd that at certain times of the day, the BxM6 is almost as frequent as the Bx4A.  The people that are furthest from the subway get it the worst in that regard. It serves some areas that while not crazy hilly, still have hills and can be annoying getting around.

[trainfan22]

The bx4 limited buses wouldn't be able to pass locals due to the narrow road under the 6 train el. Just limited would just get stuck in traffic and save little to no time.

[Far Rock Depot]

They do, but the CNG cruisers only allow for maybe 1-2 standees at the most, like Turtle said.

 

I agree, however the Bx4/A crawls along Westchester as it is. And I think one factor is all the stops it makes. Maybe it doesn't need SBS, but making a Bx4A Limited could work, as could making the Bx4 local and the Bx4A SBS since that's probably what the MTA would do.

 

 

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I ride the Cruisers all the time. 1-2? Try 15. I ride afternoons and evenings on a heavily used route (166) and both directions tend to see standees (especially Friday and Saturday nights NY-bound).

 

And as for the Bx4/4A, its not the stops that slow the bus down, its the fact that it's only one lane under the els. The only section without the el is between Southern blvd and Whitlock ave. I grew up between soundview and hunts point and used the 4 a lot. All the way back to when it was the Bx42.

 

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[FLX9304]

The bx4 limited buses wouldn't be able to pass locals due to the narrow road under the 6 train el. Just limited would just get stuck in traffic and save little to no time.

As well as underneath the 2/5 el. Those streets are narrowed.

 

 

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[checkmatechamp13]

Not surprised. It's all fun and games till someone breaks their neck.

Coaches weren't designed for standees because of the low ceiling factor.

But standees who do get injured for standing have little legal argument as they never should have.

Knowing NJT and , they'll let people break the rules until they're applied against them in a lawsuit.

 

People have places to be (well some of us anyway). I'm not going to stand there waiting 30-60 minutes for another bus just to avoid standing.

 

The S79 is the best example of that forgetfulness.

 

....says somebody who lives nowhere near the route....

 

Looking at a map really doesn't tell the whole story of the importance of the route and there are a lot of elderly people that simply can't make the trek up those stairs.  Very few of those stations have elevators, let alone ones that function. It seems as if we forget about those who are disabled far too often.  They too have places to go and should have a reasonable commute.  I don't know if SBS makes sense or not, but if the route is that slow, then at least have Limited Stop service.  I have never used either bus, but I do use the BxM6 rather regularly for business over the last year or so to visit clients, and I notice while waiting for the express bus that the Bx4 has horrible headways.  Sometimes while waiting maybe one bus will pass by.  Couple the long waits with the slow speeds and it must be pretty bad.  

 

The problem is that if you had limited-stop service, the local frequencies would be horrible (even worse than they are now). If having too many stops is an issue, they should just consolidate a few stops and call it a day.

 

For years, I used to catch the Bx4, but ever since 1998 when the bus route went from Walnut to Gun Hill & a few months later, was the 2nd route behind the Bx12 to be converted to artics, it's been horrible that it was purposed in 2008 for discontinuation, but residence fought to save it. Between Morrison & 167th St, your alternative route is the Bx27 until 8:00p, but after 1:00a, use the subway trains.

 

They didn't try to discontinue it because riders were abandoning it due to crappy service. They tried to discontinue it because it paralleled the subway.

[IAlam]

8/89 always has an express bus because of the Bayonne Bridge closure. With the reroute via the NJ Turnpike and local buses only doing 40, NJ State Police were making the buses get off the highway. Put one and one together

 

There is nothing said about this on the MTA website. 

 

My buddy from Yukon had something like that a few picks ago:

X9 morning trip, swing for a few hours, two back-to-back school pieces on the S56, and then an afternoon X9.

As for why the runs are set that way, I have no clue.

 

Edit: Seven just explained why.

 

Well school out right now so that would be the first reason as to why that's not true. But as to why ... It makes sense because a lot of express runs are during the rush and school runs are usually right before that.

[B35 via Church]

I agree, however the Bx4/A crawls along Westchester as it is. And I think one factor is all the stops it makes. Maybe it doesn't need SBS, but making a Bx4A Limited could work, as could making the Bx4 local and the Bx4A SBS since that's probably what the MTA would do.

None of that would make much of a difference as long as the route runs under an el..... You're not going to see an SBS route run under an el for any significant length & duration; as it would defeat the purpose in more ways than one......

[S78 via Hylan]

There is nothing said about this on the MTA website.

 

 

Well school out right now so that would be the first reason as to why that's not true. But as to why ... It makes sense because a lot of express runs are during the rush and school runs are usually right before that.

I wasn't saying that as an explanation, but as an example to VG8.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

Via Garibaldi 8, on 26 Jul 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

Looking at a map really doesn't tell the whole story of the importance of the route and there are a lot of elderly people that simply can't make the trek up those stairs.  Very few of those stations have elevators, let alone ones that function. It seems as if we forget about those who are disabled far too often.  They too have places to go and should have a reasonable commute.  I don't know if SBS makes sense or not, but if the route is that slow, then at least have Limited Stop service.  I have never used either bus, but I do use the BxM6 rather regularly for business over the last year or so to visit clients, and I notice while waiting for the express bus that the Bx4 has horrible headways.  Sometimes while waiting maybe one bus will pass by.  Couple the long waits with the slow speeds and it must be pretty bad. 

Sometimes I feel service needs to be axed and rebooted.

 

I feel buses are dragging down the MTA and the longer they take to make hard decisions the worse it will get for everyone.

 

Cuts are always hard to cope with, as we see prices rising and available buses dropping.

Dropping service would allow the recovery of some debt (although I feel the MTA would still be irresponsible in putting leftover funds toward it).

Nonetheless, the public needs to be engaged with the MTA at all times, not just when things get bad.

 

Everyone wants a fast paced lifestyle, but what if that pace grinds to a halt?

 

If I were ever to suggest cuts, I would focus specifically on Manhattan and Queens, where the populations could very easily utilize Uber, carpools or conventional taxis to cope.

 

I would support expansion and priority for boulevard buses, axe. merge, or redraw one-way road routes and dollar van operators who serve communities that are not served well by NYCT and support incentives to expand them so NYCT can pull out without adverse effects while they retire buses that really need it and establish permits that allow for the expansion of SBS.

 

I just feel there's so much obstructionism and I think the MTA is making it harder for SBS to expand, especially in outer boroughs.

Breaking my response in half makes it easier for forum readers to cite me. I'm learning not because of pressure but because I know that I sound bombastic sometimes.

 

I'll reiterate the need for Genius payment systems so that all door boarding can be possible on all routes, and the transition to mobile payments can be sped up.

 

I do not think the MTA will achieve its 2018 goal of mobile payments. The MTA has never made a deadline without mistakes.

They have 20-year old OSes on the boxes. See my public GMaps photo of SoHo - Spring Street.

It costs 15 cents to extract $1 from each machine. It costs even more for the security to be there.

The cost of an actual MetroCard is still $1. That should go up instead of the fare.

The weekly express pass needs to be axed in favor of adding privileges to the monthly and making the weekly a bi-weekly.

 

I would support the monthly at its current price if it allowed for Metro-North Zone 2 access. Which is why these Genius handhelds could be so useful.

They could be programmed to read and even write any MetroCard with seven-eighths less bulk.They can even be set to call balances like PATH turnstiles do already on an express bus if a unlimited is in use.

 

Under-utilization will be the death of the MTA.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Via Garibaldi 8, on 26 Jul 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

Sometimes I feel service needs to be axed and rebooted.

 

I feel buses are dragging down the MTA and the longer they take to make hard decisions the worse it will get for everyone.

 

Cuts are always hard to cope with, as we see prices rising and available buses dropping.

Dropping service would allow the recovery of some debt (although I feel the MTA would still be irresponsible in putting leftover funds toward it).

Nonetheless, the public needs to be engaged with the MTA at all times, not just when things get bad.

 

Everyone wants a fast paced lifestyle, but what if that pace grinds to a halt?

 

If I were ever to suggest cuts, I would focus specifically on Manhattan and Queens, where the populations could very easily utilize Uber, carpools or conventional taxis to cope.

 

I would support expansion and priority for boulevard buses, axe. merge, or redraw one-way road routes and dollar van operators who serve communities that are not served well by NYCT and support incentives to expand them so NYCT can pull out without adverse effects while they retire buses that really need it and establish permits that allow for the expansion of SBS.

 

I just feel there's so much obstructionism and I think the MTA is making it harder for SBS to expand, especially in outer boroughs.Breaking my response in half makes it easier for forum readers to cite me. I'm learning not because of pressure but because I know that I sound bombastic sometimes.

 

I'll reiterate the need for Genius payment systems so that all door boarding can be possible on all routes, and the transition to mobile payments can be sped up.

 

I do not think the MTA will achieve its 2018 goal of mobile payments. The MTA has never made a deadline without mistakes.

They have 20-year old OSes on the boxes. See my public GMaps photo of SoHo - Spring Street.

It costs 15 cents to extract $1 from each machine. It costs even more for the security to be there.

The cost of an actual MetroCard is still $1. That should go up instead of the fare.

The weekly express pass needs to be axed in favor of adding privileges to the monthly and making the weekly a bi-weekly.

 

I would support the monthly at its current price if it allowed for Metro-North Zone 2 access. Which is why these Genius handhelds could be so useful.

They could be programmed to read and even write any MetroCard with seven-eighths less bulk.They can even be set to call balances like PATH turnstiles do already on an express bus if a unlimited is in use.

 

Under-utilization will be the death of the MTA.

The is already planning cuts to some lines in Manhattan mainly on the crosstown routes which is a mistake. The last thing we should be doing is encouraging people to use Uber causing more congestion on the roads. That is already happening, as people ditch both buses and subways for the service. We have a finite amount of streets for cars and we need to maximize that accordingly. Having a few people in Ubers doesn't do that efficiently in any way shape or form.

[BreeddekalbL]

Why can't they just Kneecap those dollar vans?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I feel buses are dragging down the MTA and the longer they take to make hard decisions the worse it will get for everyone.

Typical MTA apologist response. No, the buses are not dragging down the MTA.  Have you seen (and read comments on this forum) on how the MTA has destroyed bus service in parts of the system?

 

Everyone wants a fast paced lifestyle, but what if that pace grinds to a halt?

 

If I were ever to suggest cuts, I would focus specifically on Manhattan and Queens, where the populations could very easily utilize Uber, carpools or conventional taxis to cope.

You better write a $500+ check to me at the 1st of every month so I can deposit my check in order to take out taxi money. 

 

Are you kidding me??? Even if you were to suggest that, that is insane, to put it lightly.

 

That would increase traffic (even more) in Manhattan, and push some to use the (already) overcrowded subway. It would have drastic effects. Many of the midtown buses do get used at some point (within Midtown) along the route, so the corridors you see for the most part get their riders. Typically, buses are empty when buses bunch (unless your route is the M5 or M55). 

 

And as for Queens, what exactly would you cut. Most of the bus service in Queens is necessary. With the subway knocked out or having a moment every other day, the express bus service being inadequate for most residents, and the LIRR being worse off for most riders, buses are vital to Queens. To suggest cuts in Queens without actually knowing where you would cut and what you would cut shows no comprehension of the commute for commuters. It's not always possible to use the subway, and not everyone has the money for an uber, or taxi. 

 

Also, how ironic that I hear this from someone who tries to conserve money as much as possible. 

 

I just feel there's so much obstructionism and I think the MTA is making it harder for SBS to expand, especially in outer boroughs.

SBS isn't needed everywhere in this system.

 

The weekly express pass needs to be axed in favor of adding privileges to the monthly and making the weekly a bi-weekly.

So basically shaft express bus riders even more, in order to benefit you. Got it.

 

Under-utilization will be the death of the MTA.

The MTA will be the death of the MTA.

Edited July 27, 2017 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl