BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Lawrence St]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There's a reason that express buses generally stay on express lines.  The old express buses that were RTS buses took a beating.  They are not meant to be used like local buses.  The seats were destroyed too, and for $6.50 for rides that can be over two hours, as was the case with my commute yesterday, it is absurd to expect riders to use hard seats.

No no, I don't mean use local buses on express routes, I mean the other way around. Express buses on local/ltd routes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Lawrence St said:

No no, I don't mean use local buses on express routes, I mean the other way around. Express buses on local/ltd routes.

That's exactly what I'm saying... 

[aemoreira81]

On 10/8/2018 at 5:33 PM, Lil 57 said:

Express buses have returned to the S89. 2882 is going southbound as of 10/8/2018 at 5:33 PM.

This should be a regular occurrence on the S89, in my opinion...with only MCIs and Prevosts on the S89, which could cause some reductions in frequencies owing to increased seat capacity. However, there would be flexibility in the event of a last-minute reroute over the Newark Bay, as these buses are capped at 60-65 mph, unlike the local buses capped at 40 mph or just barely above that.

I know I have mentioned the S93 before, but at least starting this semester, some trips have "extra sections", in which there are two buses assigned to the same run as "load up and go", sometimes from Yukon Depot. This is where a bus from the B35's fleet (the XN60s) could be useful to avoid having another bus (and driver) on the S93 at critical times. An example is the 8:15 PM departure from CSI, which operates with two buses instead of one. The XN60 could carry loads almost equivalent to that of two SI Division local buses.

Keeping in mind CSI class times, I would assign that XN60 to these schedules:

Bay Ridge: 7:13, 9:12, 11:30, 1:20, 3:40, 5:34, 7:30

CSI: 8:10, 10:10, 12:30*, 2:30, 4:45*, 6:32, 8:15

The first three trips would be S93, and then one B35 Limited run to Mother Gaston Boulevard,  (keep in mind that many B8 trips run on and run off from Brownsville), pulling in from Brownsville, the fourth and fifth trips would be a bus starting on the S93 and finish up with one complete B35 trip, and the last one would do one B35 round trip to/from Brownsville and finish  on the S93. These are the trips that frequently experience overcrowding and that bypass stops, and now that Gleason has 60-foot buses, an up-gauge can be done to save on having to use "extra-section" buses, and one of those extra-sections could instead be allocated to an added S93 departure at 9:50 PM, returning to Staten Island as an S53 and then pulling in from Port Richmond, a short 5-7 minute pull in.

* Trips would operate via the S79 to Bay Ridge/86 Street, and then continue empty on 4 Avenue to the garage or the B35.

One can add trips, but sometimes one needs capacity. This is also something that should be looked into for routes like the Q27, Q30, and Q46 (the Q27 and Q30 both serve CUNY QCC, and the Q30 and Q46 serve St. John's University) and that is already met on the Bx40 (which terminates at the front gate of SUNY Maritime College). I would have said the B6, but Brooklyn College is not in an isolated location and has subway access. Queens College has the Q25/Q34 directly, and the Q44 SBS is a short block away.  That leaves just basically the Q27, Q30 and S93 needin

[Orion6025]

51 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

I think only the PBL lines did that. When the  took over they were slowly replaced with coach buses.

While you're correct that PBLs did that extensively (save for the 6 2002 MCIs that went to NYBS and misc. GM Buffalos that had short stints at LL, NYBS, and QSC), the MTA did that too, most recently using 1999 Orion 5s and 2008 Orion 7 NG HEVs on the X32 and X90 in 2008. Going further back into history, RTS, Orions, and bowls were extensively used for the express network. Hell the 3 1996 RTS running out of laguardia were all former Ulmer Park express buses... Every single express route ran before the 1800s rolled in used exclusively local equipment (save for the leased Greyhound MCI) so the MTA has an extensive history with suburban config'd transit buses, just not as recent.

2 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

 

Do you think the MTA would switch to standard buses for the express fleet? And just make those buses suburban style with coach seats, USB ports and WiFi? 

 

The purchasing cost may be cheaper but it would likely drive riders further away. While this is obviously not true of every coach in the fleet, many of them ride real smooth on the road, at least by my standards. Putting one of those Orion hybrids with shot suspensions on an express route pounding up the Bruckner Expressway is a surefire way to get people into taxis...

[Orion6025]

9 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

The first three trips would be S93, and then one B35 Limited run to Mother Gaston Boulevard,  (keep in mind that many B8 trips run on and run off from Brownsville), pulling in from Brownsville, the fourth and fifth trips would be a bus starting on the S93 and finish up with one complete B35 trip

Wait, i'm very confused... You're suggesting interlining the S93, b35, and b8...?

[WestFarms36]

4 minutes ago, Orion6025 said:

Wait, i'm very confused... You're suggesting interlining the S93, b35, and b8...?

Yes he is.

[B35 via Church]

...and it isn't the first time either.

The dude has a history on these transit boards of intellectualizing bullshit... Just ignore him.

[RailRunRob]

47 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There's a reason that express buses generally stay on express lines.  The old express buses that were RTS buses took a beating.  They are not meant to be used like local buses.  The seats were destroyed too, and for $6.50 for rides that can be over two hours, as was the case with my commute yesterday, it is absurd to expect riders to use hard seats.

I'm with you in most cases I can't see this even remotely being possible in any borough besides Staten Island. Then even in SI their certain routes maybe Very early/late S79 trips, S55,56,84,89 these are not super high volume routes. I took the S89 last night with an MCI operating it was fine.

[Lawrence St]

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

...and it isn't the first time either.

The dude has a history on these transit boards of intellectualizing bullshit... Just ignore him.

Who me?

[B35 via Church]

26 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Who me?

Negative....

I'm talking about Mr. Rightsizing buses & let's interline buses all over the city (more than what's currently being done) while we're at it.....

I started that last reply with ellipses for a reason.

26 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

...I can't see this even remotely being possible in any borough besides Staten Island. Then even in SI their certain routes maybe Very early/late S79 trips, S55,56,84,89 these are not super high volume routes. I took the S89 last night with an MCI operating it was fine.

It'll be a cold day in hell when we'll start seeing MCI's & Prevosts being rampantly operated on local routes.... Leave that for NJ (although those "full fare" routes are more or less "commuter locals")....

Edited October 19, 2018 by B35 via Church

[RailRunRob]

17 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

It'll be a cold day in hell when we'll start seeing MCI's & Prevosts being rampantly operated on local routes.... Leave that for NJ (although technically the "full fare" routes are commuter locals)....

I was speaking to the point of just making Express deadheads more useful.. I have no idea what it cost to run a bus so all a guess. Just saying if an Express bus coming back from Manhattan deadheading at 11:45pm or Midnight could it run as a S79 to Yukon. Prob so. Someone said this is already happening with AM S89 Trips and S55/56 School trips just building on that. No regular service  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

35 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

I'm with you in most cases I can't see this even remotely being possible in any borough besides Staten Island. Then even in SI their certain routes maybe Very early/late S79 trips, S55,56,84,89 these are not super high volume routes. I took the S89 last night with an MCI operating it was fine.

Staten Island is currently having enough problems with the express bus fleet and maintenance as it is. They have plenty of local buses for the local lines.  Every day now there's a crisis with express buses out there. Either there are breakdowns during rush hour leaving hoards of people literally stranded waiting upwards of an hour for a bus, or there's a bus but there's no AC on it. Tonight we had a commuter complain on social media about being on a packed SIM6 bus with NO AC with people undressing to try to deal with the overheated conditions since the driver could not open the overhead  emergency exits and there are no windows to be open. I then wrote my contact in road ops who is looking into this particular bus as it has apparently been going into service repeatedly with no AC for a few weeks now.  I am in the process of finalizing a meeting with the  to go over maintenance issues because quite a depots seem to be having problems making express bus service.

[RailRunRob]

10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Staten Island is currently having enough problems with the express bus fleet and maintenance as it is. They have plenty of local buses for the local lines.  Every day now there's a crisis with express buses out there. Either there are breakdowns during rush hour leaving hoards of people literally stranded waiting upwards of an hour for a bus, or there's a bus but there's no AC on it. Tonight we had a commuter complain on social media about being on a packed SIM6 bus with NO AC with people undressing to try to deal with the overheated conditions since the driver could not open the overhead  emergency exits and there are no windows to be open. I then wrote my contact in road ops who is looking into this particular bus as it has apparently been going into service repeatedly with no AC for a few weeks now.  I am in the process of finalizing a meeting with the  to go over maintenance issues because quite a depots seem to be having problems making express bus service.

They've already been doing this.. @Lawrence St This is what he was saying and I was thinking. Not taking any service from anyone just saying if your going to Manhattan can you just drop them off on the way that's all.. Bus is going that way might as well make some money.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by RailRunRob

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

They've already been doing this.. @Lawrence St This is what he was saying I was thinking. Not taking any service from anyone just saying if your going to Manhattan can you just drop them off on the way that's all.. Bus is going that way might as well make some money.

 

 

I know they are and it's a terrible practice. These express buses can't serve the people paying $13.00 a day to get to and from work - we have people on the verge of being fired because they are LATE every day because they're running on local lines that have plenty of buses.  It's crazy.  I already spoke with road ops about Baisley Park doing this crap.  They had local buses running on the QM4 during rush hour with people paying $6.50 to sit on hard seats. Road ops agrees with me.  I'll speak with them about this as well.

The people suggesting this aren't the ones suffering. It's the people trying to provide for their families that are.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[trife86]

2 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

Then are drivers paid more? How does that work bus type? 

Pay is same hourly no matter what line you do

[trainfan22]

9348 ran out of LGA today, I didn't ride it but I saw it on the tracker on the Q102.

 

Both 5204 and 5206 ran in the PM Rush, so even though FP got all those XD40s they are still using those two RTS.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, trife86 said:

Pay is same hourly no matter what line you do

But certain runs pay more.

[trife86]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

But certain runs pay more.

Yes but he asked if the drivers are paid more. Is why I said pay is the same hourly no matter what line.... There are local runs over 12hrs as well so in theory just cause someone drives express does not always mean more pay.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, trife86 said:

Yes but he asked if the drivers are paid more. Is why I said pay is the same hourly no matter what line.... There are local runs over 12hrs as well so in theory just cause someone drives express does not always mean more pay.

I see what you mean. Yes, that's correct.

[Lawrence St]

14 minutes ago, trife86 said:

Yes but he asked if the drivers are paid more. Is why I said pay is the same hourly no matter what line.... There are local runs over 12hrs as well so in theory just cause someone drives express does not always mean more pay.

What are these runs Id love to do them when I get hired lmao

[checkmatechamp13]

4 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Do you think the MTA would switch to standard buses for the express fleet? And just make those buses suburban style with coach seats, USB ports and WiFi? 

I've been reading that the express buses are causing the MTA to "lose" money, which explains the whole SIM changes. Would providing regular buses help boost service frequencies? 

It's not the physical buses, it's the way they're set up. Think about it, a driver comes out of the depot, does a trip to Manhattan, deadheads back, does a second trip, deadheads back, then pulls out in the PM, does one trip and pulls back in. So the driver gets paid for 8 hours and transports maybe 150 people (or 200 people if there were standees. Remember seating capacity is 57, so 57*3 = 171). In the meantime, on local routes, they usually get more trips in, and those trips have a lot of turnover, so on a busy route, a driver might move say, 800 people a day.

That's part of the reason why the MTA wanted to split the Downtown & Midtown service, and they have a point there, that long drop-off only portion in Manhattan might add 30-60 minutes to the trip where you're not picking up extra passengers, so it's more efficient for the bus to minimize the amount of time it spends on congested streets. (The problem was that especially on the Hylan routes, they just shifted the inefficiency to the Staten Island side)

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Because they aren't interlined with local routes, as is everything else. Those deadheads are costly as well.

Even if they were interlined, that wouldn't save much (and as @RailRunRob posted, there are some trips that are interlined with school trippers)

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

This should be a regular occurrence on the S89, in my opinion...with only MCIs and Prevosts on the S89, which could cause some reductions in frequencies owing to increased seat capacity. However, there would be flexibility in the event of a last-minute reroute over the Newark Bay, as these buses are capped at 60-65 mph, unlike the local buses capped at 40 mph or just barely above that.

I know I have mentioned the S93 before, but at least starting this semester, some trips have "extra sections", in which there are two buses assigned to the same run as "load up and go", sometimes from Yukon Depot. This is where a bus from the B35's fleet (the XN60s) could be useful to avoid having another bus (and driver) on the S93 at critical times. An example is the 8:15 PM departure from CSI, which operates with two buses instead of one. The XN60 could carry loads almost equivalent to that of two SI Division local buses.

Keeping in mind CSI class times, I would assign that XN60 to these schedules:

Bay Ridge: 7:13, 9:12, 11:30, 1:20, 3:40, 5:34, 7:30

CSI: 8:10, 10:10, 12:30*, 2:30, 4:45*, 6:32, 8:15

The first three trips would be S93, and then one B35 Limited run to Mother Gaston Boulevard,  (keep in mind that many B8 trips run on and run off from Brownsville), pulling in from Brownsville, the fourth and fifth trips would be a bus starting on the S93 and finish up with one complete B35 trip, and the last one would do one B35 round trip to/from Brownsville and finish  on the S93. These are the trips that frequently experience overcrowding and that bypass stops, and now that Gleason has 60-foot buses, an up-gauge can be done to save on having to use "extra-section" buses, and one of those extra-sections could instead be allocated to an added S93 departure at 9:50 PM, returning to Staten Island as an S53 and then pulling in from Port Richmond, a short 5-7 minute pull in.

* Trips would operate via the S79 to Bay Ridge/86 Street, and then continue empty on 4 Avenue to the garage or the B35.

One can add trips, but sometimes one needs capacity. This is also something that should be looked into for routes like the Q27, Q30, and Q46 (the Q27 and Q30 both serve CUNY QCC, and the Q30 and Q46 serve St. John's University) and that is already met on the Bx40 (which terminates at the front gate of SUNY Maritime College). I would have said the B6, but Brooklyn College is not in an isolated location and has subway access. Queens College has the Q25/Q34 directly, and the Q44 SBS is a short block away.  That leaves just basically the Q27, Q30 and S93 needin

The S93 is not a frequent route overall, and those buses should be spread out to increase frequency before artics are added. I mean, at 7:30pm out of Bay Ridge, the S93 runs every 30 minutes. I'd rather see that extra bus used to provide 20 minute headways between 7-8pm instead of an articulated bus at 7:30pm. Same for those midday trips (and also keep in mind, the S93 is getting 12 minute midday & evening headways in January)

[RailRunRob]

2 hours ago, trife86 said:

Yes but he asked if the drivers are paid more. Is why I said pay is the same hourly no matter what line.... There are local runs over 12hrs as well so in theory just cause someone drives express does not always mean more pay.

Gotcha. I was wondering.  The driver yesterday drove S89 both  MCI's and LFA's so the base pay had to be the same.. Do drivers do both Local and Express Routes?

Edited October 20, 2018 by RailRunRob

[RailRunRob]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I know they are and it's a terrible practice. These express buses can't serve the people paying $13.00 a day to get to and from work - we have people on the verge of being fired because they are LATE every day because they're running on local lines that have plenty of buses.  It's crazy.  I already spoke with road ops about Baisley Park doing this crap.  They had local buses running on the QM4 during rush hour with people paying $6.50 to sit on hard seats. Road ops agrees with me.  I'll speak with them about this as well.

The people suggesting this aren't the ones suffering. It's the people trying to provide for their families that are.

As long as it isn't taking away from service on the Express routes. I don't see the issue with a route like the S89 or 55/56, not heavy routes at all.. I could see a B44, M15 or Bx1 That'd be crazy talk and unacceptable. As for running local bus on Express routes that's also Unacceptable people have a right to be teed off on that one.

Edited October 20, 2018 by RailRunRob

[aemoreira81]

4 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

Wait, i'm very confused... You're suggesting interlining the S93, b35, and b8...?

Just the S93 and B35 to get a higher-capacity bus on the S93 when it's needed most (to avoid having to use an "extra-section". I mentioned the B8 because the B8 and B35 both have deadheads to and from Brownsville.

While not a school, but a jail, I would also extend the concept of timing trips to when it's needed to the Q100, extending trips to Rikers' Island only for visiting hours and shift changes. (NJ Transit does this with the 551 to service the Farley Plaza.)

Edited October 20, 2018 by aemoreira81

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The S93 is not a frequent route overall, and those buses should be spread out to increase frequency before artics are added. I mean, at 7:30pm out of Bay Ridge, the S93 runs every 30 minutes. I'd rather see that extra bus used to provide 20 minute headways between 7-8pm instead of an articulated bus at 7:30pm. Same for those midday trips (and also keep in mind, the S93 is getting 12 minute midday & evening headways in January)

Even if the S93 warranted artics, it's nothing short of stupid to suggest interlining the B35 with the S93 for that purpose....

1 hour ago, RailRunRob said:

As long as it isn't taking away from service on the Express routes. I don't see the issue with a route like the S89 or 55/56, not heavy routes at all.. I could see a B44, M15 or Bx1 That'd be crazy talk and unacceptable. As for running local bus on Express routes that's also Unacceptable people have a right to be teed off on that one.

I'd want no part of all this mixing & matching (local fleet on express routes or vice versa) either way.... The whole thing to me reeks of desperation.... Yes, a bus is a bus at the end of the day, but at the same time, funds were spent on these MCI's & Prevosts for a specific purpose.....

Just because you can run MCI's/Prevosts over local routes, doesn't mean you should....