NX Express Posted March 30, 2011 Share #26 Posted March 30, 2011 If that's what works for you then great, but what works for one doesn't work for all. Well, if transferring from an overcrowded bus to a train to another train to another bus works for East Queens residents, I'm sure that anyone who is relatively fit should not find it hard to make an extra transfer. PS How much did the X90 cost per rider again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 30, 2011 Share #27 Posted March 30, 2011 Well, if transferring from an overcrowded bus to a train to another train to another bus works for East Queens residents, I'm sure that anyone who is relatively fit should not find it hard to make an extra transfer. PS How much did the X90 cost per rider again? You're entitled to your opinion and we're entitled to ours. Let's just leave it at that. Please don't address me again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share #28 Posted March 30, 2011 PS How much did the X90 cost per rider again? It was the same price as any other express bus. Back when it was cut I think that was either $4 or $5, I forget exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted March 30, 2011 Share #29 Posted March 30, 2011 It was the same price as any other express bus. Back when it was cut I think that was either $4 or $5, I forget exactly. I mean for the MTA to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted March 30, 2011 Share #30 Posted March 30, 2011 Last time I checked, the X90's total cost was $19, with a direct operating cost of $10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share #31 Posted March 30, 2011 Last time I checked, the X90's total cost was $19, with a direct operating cost of $10. Wow, I didn't know it was that much! :confused: Just a thought, would the operating cost be lower if they used the regular buses instead of those huge luxury ones? I remember they used to have the regular buses with the big padded seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted March 30, 2011 Share #32 Posted March 30, 2011 Wow, I didn't know it was that much! :confused: Just a thought, would the operating cost be lower if they used the regular buses instead of those huge luxury ones? I remember they used to have the regular buses with the big padded seats. Good question...for what it's worth, on the last days of the X90 they were using Orion NGs and RTS' which were based out of Michael J. Quill Depot, as they were sending those MCIs to other depots so as to bump older 1998 MCIs to storage. You are right about the X90 using RTS' and Orion 5s with the soft seats though previously though, but I don't know when MCIs started coming to MJQ to replace those suburban-seated RTS' and O5s. I would like to see the MTA order a standard fleet of buses fitted with suburban seating but I don't think that will happen anytime soon. However, think $19 in direct operating costs is much? ha! You're in for something...check this out: http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/ServiceReduction/part2.htm The X25's total cost: $80!!! Direct operating costs: $42! From the MTA's webside, total costs refers to direct operating cost plus the annual operating cost of fixed benefit expenses, fixed depot maintenance, major bus overhauls, road control, training, facility upkeep and maintenance, supervision, operating management, operating support services such as scheduling and safety, and central administration costs. Direct operating costs refers to the annual transportation and maintenance operating costs associated with operating NYCT scheduled bus service, including bus operators’ hourly pay and variable benefit costs; regular maintenance and cleaning expenses, and fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share #33 Posted March 30, 2011 Direct operating costs I think refers to how much the passenger should REALLY be paying for a ride. Charge us $10 a ride then, don't cut it!!!! :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 30, 2011 Share #34 Posted March 30, 2011 I know the BXM3/BXM4 stops on some trips at 125th and Madison as well. Techically it's supposed to be a pick up for Bronx/Yonkers riders only. However on occasionaly fanning the BXm3 mainly weekends I seen riders board in Midtown and get off at 125th/Madison. As far as the X90, it had SRO and should been 'saved.' Instead of running 2-3 hours in peak direction rush hours, as an 'express fare' route it could have changed and restructred. IMO it could had become a 'limited' called the M90 IMO. It could have ran as a downtown version of the (M98)and run non-stop between Chambers/Brooklyn Bridge exit and 42nd Street. Limited stops the rest of the route. Also could have replaced the former X25 as well. I would have ran the M90 as follows. Downtown all stops on York between 92nd and 72nd. Then "limited stops along 2nd Ave between 57th and 42nd. (57th, 50th, 42nd/1st then via FDR) *Express Non-stop* via FDR Drive. Then all stops via M22 route to Battery Park City. reactions? I think the issue was more the fact that the M15 +SBS+ and Lexington Avenue are crowded, rather than the fact that people on York Avenue have no direct service to Lower Manhattan. If I had to restructure the service, I would've restructured the X90 to pick up a portion of the X25 route by having it run as follows: York Avenue->57th Street->Park Avenue->42nd Street->2nd Avenue->23rd Street->FDR Drive->watever the old route it took to Battery Park City It would serve Grand Central, but it would have two kep differences from the X25: 1) It would serve riders on the UES who work near Grand Central 2) It would serve Grand Central more frequently. Part of the problem with the X25 was that it came every 30 minutes, so I'm sure there were potential customers who took a cab to Lower Manhattan because they didn't want to wait 30 minutes for a bus. I'm on your side 100% my friend. That line should've been kept just like the X16, but the had it in for that line and the X16. I don't know if you keep in contact with any of your fellow ex X90 riders, but if you do, I would contact some of them and try to get something going with a private carrier. You guys deserve better than that so called "alternative" in the M15 and as you said, who knows when the SAS will be done and the (M15) does not serve Battery Park City, so those who used the X90 would have to make transfers one way or another, thus increasing their commuting time. They wouldn't necessarily increase their commuting time: They would just have a more uncomfortable commute. Taking the to Bowling Green and then taking the M20 would probably be faster than the X90. As far as a private company taking it over, it would have to be profitable for that to happen. There has to be the demand to make it happen (and the bus has to remain cheaper than a taxi fare, or else it will never survive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted March 30, 2011 Share #35 Posted March 30, 2011 Charge us $10 a ride then, don't cut it!!!! :mad: I edited my post in regards to direct operating costs...but either way you could take a taxi for roughly that very same price.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 30, 2011 Share #36 Posted March 30, 2011 Charge us $10 a ride then, don't cut it!!!! :mad: They could've cut back on the frequency if it was really a problem and that would've made the line more cost effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share #37 Posted March 30, 2011 I edited my post in regards to direct operating costs...but either way you could take a taxi for roughly that very same price.... Yeah, by sharing a cab with 3 other people. A regular cab would probably be a little over $15 or so. It's $3 initial fare, $2 a mile, and it's like 5-6 miles to get downtown, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 30, 2011 Share #38 Posted March 30, 2011 I think the issue was more the fact that the M15 +SBS+ and Lexington Avenue are crowded, rather than the fact that people on York Avenue have no direct service to Lower Manhattan. If I had to restructure the service, I would've restructured the X90 to pick up a portion of the X25 route by having it run as follows: York Avenue->57th Street->Park Avenue->42nd Street->2nd Avenue->23rd Street->FDR Drive->watever the old route it took to Battery Park City It would serve Grand Central, but it would have two kep differences from the X25: 1) It would serve riders on the UES who work near Grand Central 2) It would serve Grand Central more frequently. Part of the problem with the X25 was that it came every 30 minutes, so I'm sure there were potential customers who took a cab to Lower Manhattan because they didn't want to wait 30 minutes for a bus. They wouldn't necessarily increase their commuting time: They would just have a more uncomfortable commute. Taking the to Bowling Green and then taking the M20 would probably be faster than the X90. I've used the and the plenty of days during rush hour and they run slower than the train. For a while, there was a saying that you'd better off just taking the train because the and train just sit between stations. It's still actually true even today. And the (M20) is also a joke. Folks have commented in the past that that line is horrendous, so yeah, I doubt that connection would be faster having used the (M20) and the on numerous occasions. It's faster only in theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 30, 2011 Share #39 Posted March 30, 2011 Yeah, by sharing a cab with 3 other people. A regular cab would probably be a little over $15 or so. It's $3 initial fare, $2 a mile, and it's like 5-6 miles to get downtown, right? Yes. It is $3 initial fare + $2.50 per mile + time-based charge (rush hour, nights, etc, which is only $0.50 or $1) + MTA tax (I believe it is $0.50) + waiting time charge. I remember taking a taxi from the UES to Lower Manhattan (actually all the way to Staten Island to bring a sick relative home), and the fare was about $9 by the time we reached Lower Manhattan. During rush hour, it would probably be around $15. I've used the and the plenty of days during rush hour and they run slower than the train. For a while, there was a saying that you'd better off just taking the train because the and train just sit between stations. It's still actually true even today. And the (M20) is also a joke. Folks have commented in the past that that line is horrendous, so yeah, I doubt that connection would be faster having used the (M20) and the on numerous occasions. It's faster only in theory. Didn't the X90 get caught in traffic on the FDR Drive? Also, transferring to the M20 would only be if they didn't want to walk. The fastest way would probably be to get off at Fulton Street and walk 10 minutes to the World Financial Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share #40 Posted March 30, 2011 I've used the and the plenty of days during rush hour and they run slower than the train. For a while, there was a saying that you'd better off just taking the train because the and train just sit between stations. It's still actually true even today. Well as a daily rider I can tell you that the express will get stuck between stations, and sometimes come to a complete stand still a lot, but the is only faster roughly 5% of the time. Maybe 15% of the time it's the same speed, but usually from 42th to Brooklyn Bridge the express can pass 2-4 trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 30, 2011 Share #41 Posted March 30, 2011 Yes What about the traffic on the FDR? Truth be told, that's why I take the X2 now when I can't get to the X30 or there's problems going via NJ because I only lose maybe 10 minutes on the X2 going via the FDR. I don't even bother with the X14 anymore because who in the hell wants to deal with the Downtown traffic when I need to get to Midtown? The FDR isn't any worse than it's been. Most days it isn't really that bad. On Monday I took the X2 in because I wasn't going to catch the last X30 and we breezed up the FDR to 23rd street. The thing is that it is slow going on the X14 in the morning particularly because of the Downtown stops and traffic. Interesting enough also the X2 is emptier than the X14 and runs later with more frequency in some cases. I did something very interesting on Monday... I got on an 08:30 (S53) and got off at Victory Blvd and waited for the (S93) so I could avoid all of those stupid local stops and the annoying crowds. I took the last (S93) to Hylan Blvd and an nice roomy X2 rolled up a few minutes later. :cool: That may be my back up plan now if I can't get over to the X30 quick enough or don't feel like walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 30, 2011 Share #42 Posted March 30, 2011 Well as a daily rider I can tell you that the express will get stuck between stations, and sometimes come to a complete stand still a lot, but the is only faster roughly 5% of the time. Maybe 15% of the time it's the same speed, but usually from 42th to Brooklyn Bridge the express can pass 2-4 trains. And the reason why is because the and seem to run better (a little "faster") going Downtown than going Uptown. Going Uptown you are better off getting on the train during certain parts of the rush hour because they (the and ) just stand there between stations and keep giving annoucements about there being train traffic ahead. I mean seriously, they spent months and months inconveniencing riders putting in that new signal system on that line and I don't see any real benefits from it. There still seems to be the same problem. They know why they created those express buses and the main reason was to give alleviate the overcrowded and line and give those riders other alternatives, then they turn around and cut those alternatives and claim that all is well because of the SBS service. I mean really the is a joke. The problems on the and won't be helped until the SAS is built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share #43 Posted March 30, 2011 Didn't the X90 get caught in traffic on the FDR Drive? Lol what traffic?!? The only place that there might ever be a slight delay is by 23rd because of the way the entrance and exit ramps criss-cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted March 30, 2011 Share #44 Posted March 30, 2011 Lol what traffic?!? The only place that there might ever be a slight delay is by 23rd because of the way the entrance and exit ramps criss-cross. The traffic is really coming Uptown on the FDR not Downtown and basically the X90 is going in the opposite direction so it avoids the traffic issues if there are any for the most part on the FDR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted March 30, 2011 Share #45 Posted March 30, 2011 Thank you, Via Garibaldi 8. I know that there a fight to keep the bus running, but in the end the MTA still cut it. And once the MTA cuts something, you know that it's never going to come back, especially with the way the economy is now. I really wish that they actually tried to make a good alternative, or at least had a bus that would go up near the battery park area, because the only buses that run around there come from the West Side. For the people coming from York or East End, it's a 10-15 minute walk to Lex, and the crosstown buses aren't any faster if you factor in waiting time, even if the buses skip every other stop because they get caught at a red anyways. Oh and don't even mention the "2nd Avenue Subway" because I doubt that they'll even finish the extension to 96th within the next 15 years. Wait - what's Transport Athuma? And just a question, I know that it was shut down because the operating costs were high. Do those big express buses cost a lot more to run than a regular bus? I remember when they ran the regular buses with the big padded seats, and those were fine. Or even a regular bus with those hard seats would be fine. I meant Transport Azumah. http://wn.com/TransportAzumah http://www.transportazumah.com/services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 30, 2011 Share #46 Posted March 30, 2011 I think the issue was more the fact that the M15 +SBS+ and Lexington Avenue are crowded, rather than the fact that people on York Avenue have no direct service to Lower Manhattan. If I had to restructure the service, I would've restructured the X90 to pick up a portion of the X25 route by having it run as follows: York Avenue->57th Street->Park Avenue->42nd Street->2nd Avenue->23rd Street->FDR Drive->watever the old route it took to Battery Park City It would serve Grand Central, but it would have two kep differences from the X25: 1) It would serve riders on the UES who work near Grand Central 2) It would serve Grand Central more frequently. Part of the problem with the X25 was that it came every 30 minutes, so I'm sure there were potential customers who took a cab to Lower Manhattan because they didn't want to wait 30 minutes for a bus.) That what I meant. Have the X90 become a Downtown M90 Limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted March 30, 2011 Share #47 Posted March 30, 2011 As far as the X90, it had SRO and should been 'saved.' Instead of running 2-3 hours in peak direction rush hours, as an 'express fare' route it could have changed and restructred. IMO it could had become a 'limited' called the M90 IMO. It could have ran as a downtown version of the (M98)and run non-stop between Chambers/Brooklyn Bridge exit and 42nd Street. Limited stops the rest of the route. Also could have replaced the former X25 as well. I would have ran the M90 as follows. Downtown all stops on York between 92nd and 72nd. Then "limited stops along 2nd Ave between 57th and 42nd. (57th, 50th, 42nd/1st then via FDR) *Express Non-stop* via FDR Drive. Then all stops via M22 route to Battery Park City. reactions? That defeats the entire purpose of making it a Limited Route. You are also emulating the M15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 30, 2011 Share #48 Posted March 30, 2011 That defeats the entire purpose of making it a Limited Route. You are also emulating the M15. I admit it was off the top of my head. Idea was to make it a Lower Manhattan version of the M98. It should just make 'all stops' along York between 92nd and 66th then *non-stop* express to/from Lower Manhattan via old X90 route to the WFC via Chambers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted March 30, 2011 Share #49 Posted March 30, 2011 I admit it was off the top of my head. Idea was to make it a Lower Manhattan version of the M98. It should just make 'all stops' along York between 92nd and 66th then *non-stop* express to/from Lower Manhattan via old X90 route to the WFC via Chambers. It's still emulating what is the current M15. The way I'd do it, let it start from its current last stop and have it run LTD from the WFC to 57th and 1st Avenue, right onto 57th and left onto york making all local stops up to 96th Street. The way your idea is planned is to bypass some of the more vital parts of the routing which would backfire. Didn't the X90 get caught in traffic on the FDR Drive? Also, transferring to the M20 would only be if they didn't want to walk. The fastest way would probably be to get off at Fulton Street and walk 10 minutes to the World Financial Center. Living near the FDR, I can tell you firsthand that it gets caught every once in a while. Whenever the 59th Street Bridge is crammed with traffic, it affects the FDR and the x90 would always get caught in that mess. How would it replace the X25 which went to Grand Central Station and the WTC?? I've used the X25 and replacing the X90 in its place would mean some serious meandering, as well as traffic problems along 42nd st. in particular. In all honesty, there was no need for an x25 at all considering 99.9% of the time, it only carried air. You have a multitude of service around the WTC area including the subways, the M103, and quite a few other connections! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 30, 2011 Share #50 Posted March 30, 2011 It's still emulating what is the current M15. The way I'd do it, let it start from its current last stop and have it run LTD from the WFC to 57th and 1st Avenue, right onto 57th and left onto york making all local stops up to 96th Street. The way your idea is planned is to bypass some of the more vital parts of the routing which would backfire. Living near the FDR, I can tell you firsthand that it gets caught every once in a while. Whenever the 59th Street Bridge is crammed with traffic, it affects the FDR and the x90 would always get caught in that mess. Idea was trying to get riders off the M15 and Lex subway lines in addition to making it a Downtown version of the (M98). Still your idea makes more sense as I admit I don't Upper East Side/Yorkville area that well transit wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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