Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 1, 2011 Share #26 Posted April 1, 2011 Ha, some neighborhoods have went the total opposite, from bad to good. Red Hook is a perfect example...it used to be deplorable to the point you couldn't walk one block without something happening to someone. Now it's been gentrified by the hipsters to some extent. There's even a nice big Fairway there, which is very well known in the well-to-do Upper West Side, so the area is coming along and now a Whole Foods is there too. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanatic Posted April 1, 2011 Share #27 Posted April 1, 2011 I do know about the racial demographic changes in Brooklyn. Had a feeling you were referring to this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 1, 2011 Share #28 Posted April 1, 2011 I do know about the racial demographic changes in Brooklyn. Had a feeling you were referring to this... It just so happened that the crime spike started when the neighbourhood started changing, so mentioning who was living there and who moved in is necessary in a way. It was also a little less accessible for a while which made it a bit more suburban, but with infrastructure changes, that changed as well making the area a bit more urban. Speaking of changing demographics in Brooklyn, I am surprised at how many mixed couples and whites are moving into Bedford-Stuyvesant. That area is sort of like the Harlem of Brooklyn. I was watching the Cooking Channel the other day and this chick has an old style sort of hippie store in Bedford Stuyvesant. I had to do a double take. That area was always in the news for shootings and such. I'm from Brooklyn also, albeit Southern Brooklyn, so while I'm not familiar with every area, I do know the areas in terms of bad and good and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jashawn R. Posted April 2, 2011 Share #29 Posted April 2, 2011 Canarsie already has some of the highest crime rates in the city. It's the best place to move them. Just it would add to the existing crime they already have now. Why would you want to add to the EXISTING crime in the area. With your idea, you'd be making one place better, and another place much, much worse than it already was. Anyways, this is just another reason for someone to say that my generation is "uncivilized" and "dangerous". I am seriously tired of the immaturity of my peers, which is used to put all teens into the stereotype of "thugs and hoodlums". Grow the F*** up already. SMFH..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 2, 2011 Share #30 Posted April 2, 2011 Ha, some neighborhoods have went the total opposite, from bad to good. Red Hook is a perfect example...it used to be deplorable to the point you couldn't walk one block without something happening to someone. Now it's been gentrified by the hipsters to some extent. hah... ....and you can thank that ikea for that.... much as I can't stand the place, it did bring a (positive) change & aura about that neighborhood.... give it about 20 some'n odd years & Red Hook will be an extension of Cobble Hill.. them hipsters love areas right near water... only thing is though, red hook has no real commercial strip (then again, it's a good chance that van brunt can be built up to fit the bill, so to speak)..... Why would you want to add to the EXISTING crime in the area. With your idea, you'd be making one place better, and another place much, much worse than it already was. clearly he has it out against Canarsie, and it has nothin to do with w/e existing crime there is out there either.... who sits up there & says, tear down housing facilities & move all its patrons to a specific neighborhood... that in itself is highly irrational, and for lack of a better term, stupid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 2, 2011 Share #31 Posted April 2, 2011 It just so happened that the crime spike started when the neighbourhood started changing, so mentioning who was living there and who moved in is necessary in a way. It was also a little less accessible for a while which made it a bit more suburban, but with infrastructure changes, that changed as well making the area a bit more urban. Speaking of changing demographics in Brooklyn, I am surprised at how many mixed couples and whites are moving into Bedford-Stuyvesant. That area is sort of like the Harlem of Brooklyn. I was watching the Cooking Channel the other day and this chick has an old style sort of hippie store in Bedford Stuyvesant. I had to do a double take. That area was always in the news for shootings and such. I'm from Brooklyn also, albeit Southern Brooklyn, so while I'm not familiar with every area, I do know the areas in terms of bad and good and such. guess you never heard of "stuyvesant heights" then.... don't worry, a lot of brooklynites ourselves haven't... lol... (wikipedia uses stuyvesant heights & bedford-stuyvesant interchangably.... which I don't believe is the case at all) out of nowhere, real estate agents revived that term/name, to lure in (more of) the white crowd into Bed-Stuy... that's why that happened... yeah, via, it's VERY much like Harlem - guess they figure, if Harlem can be uprooted by gentrification, why not bed-stuy.... b/c hell, god knows when you say bed-stuy to potential homeowners/renters of ANY race who are familiar w/ NYC, red flags immediately go up.... same general idea they did w/ "Mill Island", to separate the part of mill basin below Av U.... they aint slick.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #32 Posted April 2, 2011 guess you never heard of "stuyvesant heights" then.... don't worry, a lot of brooklynites ourselves haven't... lol...(wikipedia uses stuyvesant heights & bedford-stuyvesant interchangably.... which I don't believe is the case at all) out of nowhere, real estate agents revived that term/name, to lure in (more of) the white crowd into Bed-Stuy... that's why that happened... yeah, via, it's VERY much like Harlem - guess they figure, if Harlem can be uprooted by gentrification, why not bed-stuy.... b/c hell, god knows when you say bed-stuy to potential homeowners/renters of ANY race who are familiar w/ NYC, red flags immediately go up.... same general idea they did w/ "Mill Island", to separate the part of mill basin below Av U.... they aint slick.... Mill Island... I used to hang out down there and we never called it "Mill Island". There's a few others that I hear on the news when referring to Brooklyn like "Wingate" and I'm like WTF??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #33 Posted April 2, 2011 Mill Island... I used to hang out down there and we never called it "Mill Island". There's a few others that I hear on the news when referring to Brooklyn like "Wingate" and I'm like WTF??? Wingate is the area directly north of Kings County Hospital, basically Winthrop St to approximately Rutland Road. Generally considered east-west boundaries are New York and Albany avenues. Was called "Pigtown" up until the mid to late '60's. Home of Marty Markowitz' Summer Concerts-northern section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 2, 2011 Share #34 Posted April 2, 2011 If this was pre '60's, I wouldn't be living in "East Flatbush".... I'd be living here in... "Rugby". Flatbush was separated from East Flatbush large in part, due to the increasing west indian population east of (victorian) Flatbush... what's funny is that, west indians (specfically, Haitians) still got west of flatbush (av) - which is what Flatbush (the neighborhood) is comprised of...... I've heard several references made to "pigtown", never knew exactly what it pertained to... props on that info, Trainmaster. The only Wingate reference that's made around here now, was the high school, located 1 block north of the back end of kings county.... but since it was split up into several smaller schools, I honestly don't know what they call (what was) Wingate HS, now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #35 Posted April 2, 2011 High ridership or not, those lines in particular are the worse on Staten Island. I don't believe there is anything that forces the to keep any line, high ridership or not. If there is, then they need to acknowledge that there are problems on certain local lines throughout the city and take steps to better protect the passengers and the B/Os. This is what a lack of fare enforcement leads to and then we sit back and say, "Oh it's only a few people doing this," so it's not a big deal. Meanwhile people are being killed over $2.25 cents. The constantly tries to sweep the problem under the rug when it costs them millions a year because it is "cheaper" for them to allow passengers and B/Os to be assaulted and killed in some instances on their buses. I guess the message is that human lives don't matter and it's cheaper to keep pretending that some of the local buses don't have serious problems and that farebeating is the main problem, which causes problems like this. I wonder how many of the board members or the family member of the board members of the use the local buses? We know Lee Sander's daughter used a local line in Queens, but that's about it. That line was the Q76. There was an article saying somthing like "Don't cut my bus daddy". In any case, if a gang of teenagers gets on the bus (as was the case here), rather than being the bus driver or a passenger who is injured, it would be the fare enforcement officer. Canarsie already has some of the highest crime rates in the city. It's the best place to move them. Just it would add to the existing crime they already have now. No it doesn't. There are maps of crime rates in different neighborhoods and Canarsie doesn't have as high a crime rate as other neighborhoods (parts of Upper Manhattan, Bed-Stuy, and parts of the South Bronx have a much higher crime rate) Canarsie was heavily Italian, with some Jews here and there. The Italians have all but left to other parts of Southern Brooklyn (i.e. Dyker Heights, Bay Ridge, etc.), Staten Island, Queens and Long Island and the Jewish population today is almost all but dead as well there. It is mainly black now and there are some housing projects there I believe which has helped fuel the spike in crime. I do know that an express bus goes there (the BM2) so maybe a few spots are so so where the home owners are, but I wouldn't want to be over there as a home owner if I was surrounded by projects and crime. :eek: I'm sure housing values are affected by the crime there and not in a good way either. The housing projects have been there for a while, even back when it was mostly white. In any case, just because an area went from being mostly white to mostly black doesn't necessarily mean it will have high crime rates. There are plenty of mostly black areas in Eastern Queens that have low crime rates. If you look at that Census map I showed you, basically all neighborhoods east of Flatbush Avenue consist of black people, but not all of them have high crime rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted April 2, 2011 Share #36 Posted April 2, 2011 It just so happened that the crime spike started when the neighbourhood started changing, so mentioning who was living there and who moved in is necessary in a way. It was also a little less accessible for a while which made it a bit more suburban, but with infrastructure changes, that changed as well making the area a bit more urban. Speaking of changing demographics in Brooklyn, I am surprised at how many mixed couples and whites are moving into Bedford-Stuyvesant. That area is sort of like the Harlem of Brooklyn. I was watching the Cooking Channel the other day and this chick has an old style sort of hippie store in Bedford Stuyvesant. I had to do a double take. That area was always in the news for shootings and such. I'm from Brooklyn also, albeit Southern Brooklyn, so while I'm not familiar with every area, I do know the areas in terms of bad and good and such. guess you never heard of "stuyvesant heights" then.... don't worry, a lot of brooklynites ourselves haven't... lol...(wikipedia uses stuyvesant heights & bedford-stuyvesant interchangably.... which I don't believe is the case at all) out of nowhere, real estate agents revived that term/name, to lure in (more of) the white crowd into Bed-Stuy... that's why that happened... yeah, via, it's VERY much like Harlem - guess they figure, if Harlem can be uprooted by gentrification, why not bed-stuy.... b/c hell, god knows when you say bed-stuy to potential homeowners/renters of ANY race who are familiar w/ NYC, red flags immediately go up.... same general idea they did w/ "Mill Island", to separate the part of mill basin below Av U.... they aint slick.... LOL. I kinda get what you guys are saying. Take my grandmother's place on Pacific St. A few doors down there's a new apartment complex hosting some of the "white crowd". It looks VERY out of place compared to the numerous brownstones with the older and crappier apartments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #37 Posted April 2, 2011 That line was the Q76. There was an article saying somthing like "Don't cut my bus daddy". Yes, and I remember hearing about it on NY1... In any case, if a gang of teenagers gets on the bus (as was the case here), rather than being the bus driver or a passenger who is injured, it would be the fare enforcement officer. Less likely to happen if the person is armed... Or better yet have them go around in twos... No it doesn't. There are maps of crime rates in different neighborhoods and Canarsie doesn't have as high a crime rate as other neighborhoods (parts of Upper Manhattan, Bed-Stuy, and parts of the South Bronx have a much higher crime rate) The housing projects have been there for a while, even back when it was mostly white. In any case, just because an area went from being mostly white to mostly black doesn't necessarily mean it will have high crime rates. There are plenty of mostly black areas in Eastern Queens that have low crime rates. If you look at that Census map I showed you, basically all neighborhoods east of Flatbush Avenue consist of black people, but not all of them have high crime rates. Yes, of course. I'm well aware of that there are "exceptions" to the rule. There was a piece on NY1 about a few areas of Queens that are mainly black that have high income levels such as St. Albans and Cambria Heights, but they are few and far between overall. If I recall correctly, one of those areas I mentioned above is the wealthiest black neighbourhood in the country. Contrast that with Park Hill and Stapleton (excluding Stapleton Heights, etc. which has nice homes), which contributes greatly to the overall crime level in Staten Island and the figures are whoppingly lopsided. Then of course there are the Todt Hill projects, which has poor whites and blacks. Most of the folks look poor, but I've never had any problems there waiting for the express bus and it's relatively quiet, although I generally wait up at Slosson & Schmidts since I feel more comfortable there. Not so much that I'm afraid or anything, it's just rather depressing to be surrounded by those folks. Unemployed mostly with nothing going for themselves... The same is true of the Hylan Blvd stop I wait at sometimes that's by those South Beach projects... I usually just wait at Steuben instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #38 Posted April 2, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanatic Posted April 2, 2011 Share #39 Posted April 2, 2011 Evidence that East Flatbush was know as Rugby back then is the Rugby library (opened in 1946) on Utica near Tilden. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #40 Posted April 2, 2011 Yes, and I remember hearing about it on NY1... Less likely to happen if the person is armed... Or better yet have them go around in twos... Yes, of course. I'm well aware of that there are "exceptions" to the rule. There was a piece on NY1 about a few areas of Queens that are mainly black that have high income levels such as St. Albans and Cambria Heights, but they are few and far between overall. If I recall correctly, one of those areas I mentioned above is the wealthiest black neighbourhood in the country. Contrast that with Park Hill and Stapleton (excluding Stapleton Heights, etc. which has nice homes), which contributes greatly to the overall crime level in Staten Island and the figures are whoppingly lopsided. Then of course there are the Todt Hill projects, which has poor whites and blacks. Most of the folks look poor, but I've never had any problems there waiting for the express bus and it's relatively quiet, although I generally wait up at Slosson & Schmidts since I feel more comfortable there. Not so much that I'm afraid or anything, it's just rather depressing to be surrounded by those folks. Unemployed mostly with nothing going for themselves... The same is true of the Hylan Blvd stop I wait at sometimes that's by those South Beach projects... I usually just wait at Steuben instead. I can't think of any real solutions to the problem. If most problems are caused by farebeaters, you could have the fare enforcement officer take the person off if they are causing trouble. The problem becomes if the farebeater is armed, or if it is a group of armed farebeaters (as was the case here). A fight between the fare enforcement officers and the farebeaters (In don't know what you would call them in this instance, since they boarded the bus with the intent to fight, rather than with the intent to get a free ride, but we'll call them farebeaters for the purposes of this discussion) could end up being worse if they get involved, since now you have more people aiming at each other, and more potential for a bystander to be injured. As far as the comments about blacks, while it is true that areas with a lot of black people tend to have higher crime rates overall, you can't pinpoint the cause of an area's decline being on the area becoming "blacker" As far as Canarsie specifically goes, it didn't decline income-wise as much as everybody thinks. The median household income is roughly $50,000, and the median per capita income is roughly $23,000, which is compable to areas on Staten Island around the southern part of the North Shore (Rosebank, Graniteville, New Brighton, the parts of Mariners' Harbor and West Brighton around Forest Avenue, etc) Here is a crime map, showing the crime rates of Canarsie relative to the rest of the city: http://nymag.com/docs/08/01/080114crimemaps.pdf As you can see, Canarsie's crime rate is about average-on par with Flatlands/Mill Basin, Park Slope, and Kensington (areas that people generally consider to be safe). It might be a little bit higher, since there might be more undocumented crimes (people who just immigrated here and don't speak English might not know how to report a crime, etc), but there are plenty of other areas withn higher crime rates. Here is where I got my income stats from: http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Canarsie-Brooklyn-NY.html Take all the poor people away and move them to Canarsie. That way we'll have all the poor people together in a group. This will be safe for everybody else because gangs will kill all of them and then all of New York City will be safe like outside Mayor Bloomberg's house. Elegant solution. I think the reason why he picked Canarsie was because he posted some fantasy maps, and a person who criticized him was from Canarsie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanatic Posted April 2, 2011 Share #41 Posted April 2, 2011 Wish there were more posters like the poster above me. He actually does his research before coming to a conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 2, 2011 Share #42 Posted April 2, 2011 That line was the Q76. There was an article saying somthing like "Don't cut my bus daddy".... In any case, if a gang of teenagers gets on the bus (as was the case here), rather than being the bus driver or a passenger who is injured, it would be the fare enforcement officer. ... No it doesn't. There are maps of crime rates in different neighborhoods and Canarsie doesn't have as high a crime rate as other neighborhoods (parts of Upper Manhattan, Bed-Stuy, and parts of the South Bronx have a much higher crime rate) ... The housing projects have been there for a while, even back when it was mostly white. In any case, just because an area went from being mostly white to mostly black doesn't necessarily mean it will have high crime rates. There are plenty of mostly black areas in Eastern Queens that have low crime rates. If you look at that Census map I showed you, basically all neighborhoods east of Flatbush Avenue consist of black people, but not all of them have high crime rates. That article you're referring to, was regarding weekend service on the Q76 & the Q79... but still, LMAO @ "don't cut my bus daddy" ....and as far as (not) having high crime rates, you're spot on about Canarsie... I mean to try to make it out like Canarsie is old school ENY, South Jamaica, Harlem, and the other usual suspects, is unfair.... IMO, Canarsie suffers more from the spillage from its neighboring hoods (spring creek, brownsville) more than anything.... The part of your post I bolded in red pertaining to white flight... well, this is what those flee-ers (and/or other bandwagoners & closet racists) continue to consider the ghetto.... since their asses ran far the hell away from it back in yesteryear... east flatbush is a very good example of that... Canarsie, as well - Italians used to live in BOTH of these neighborhoods... Only difference b/w Canarsie & my area here.... Canarsie is more middle class (and better well-kept), and have secluded (safer, if you wanna call it that) pockets, like the paerdegats, and pretty much the area where the BM2/B103 travel on, east of Rockaway pkwy.... Take all the poor people away and move them to Canarsie. That way we'll have all the poor people together in a group. This will be safe for everybody else because gangs will kill all of them and then all of New York City will be safe like outside Mayor Bloomberg's house. Elegant solution. yep... our prison system's based off the same type of thinking.... and this is what this guy Roadcruiser wants Canarsie to end up as... I still say there's some underlying hatred he has about the area, but w/e..... Evidence that East Flatbush was know as Rugby back then is the Rugby library (opened in 1946) on Utica near Tilden. Just my two cents. yup... and the post office as well, bro (off Lenox, next to the Citibank... also on Utica) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #43 Posted April 2, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #44 Posted April 2, 2011 As far as the comments about blacks, while it is true that areas with a lot of black people tend to have higher crime rates overall, you can't pinpoint the cause of an area's decline being on the area becoming "blacker" Areas that become "blacker" are clearly the cause for white flight though. The general assumption is automatically that blacks are violent, therefore more crime will come into the area. I remember being at a friend's house years ago as a teenager and somehow a discussion came up about Sheepshead Bay and Jews and my friend's mother goes, "What?? I thought we left them back in Borough Park." So what I'm saying is that folks have conditioned thoughts about what makes a good neighbourhood and what doesn't and it isn't just these folks, but also businesses as well. One of my professors in college once got into a discussion with us about how certain neighbourhoods that are wealthier get faster response times with regards to emergencies and such where as the bad neighbourhoods get slower response times. He gave some examples to prove his point and I can't remember what he said, but they sure as hell were convincing. With that said, what can happen often times when blacks move in is all of the businesses move out also, and that also helps bring down the neighbourhood. Now I have some white friends that live in up and coming neighbourhoods that I would've never considered stepping foot into years ago like say East Williamsburg/Bushwick area, but the first thing I look to see is what kind of new businesses are moving in. If the banks are setting up shop there and new renown stores are coming in, that's a good sign that the area will be a good one soon. If you look at my neighbourhood in West Brighton, you can automatically tell the more affluent part of West Brighton where I'm at by Forest Ave./SI Zoo and the very poor part of so-called "West Brighton" where the housing projects are there at the border because all of the businesses and such are along Forest Avenue, while if you go down Broadway to say Castleton Ave, the buildings look shabbier and run down. Then you go east on Castleton towards the heart of West Brighton and near Randall Manor say around the Richmond University Medical Center there and you can see the change immediately as you continue east. Nice tree lined streets and well kept houses and such. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #45 Posted April 2, 2011 I can't think of any examples where, within the same neighborhood, the more affluent parts have more minorities, but you're right that blacks are generally perceived to be more violent, and generally black neighborhoods have higher poverty and crime rates than white neighborhoods. Still, whenever there are rules, there are always exceptions. There are always going to be areas with poor Whites and areas with wealthier Blacks and Hispanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJC Posted April 11, 2011 Share #46 Posted April 11, 2011 Why Canarsie? I guess he hate Canarsie Ha, some neighborhoods have went the total opposite, from bad to good. Red Hook is a perfect example...it used to be deplorable to the point you couldn't walk one block without something happening to someone. Now it's been gentrified by the hipsters to some extent. Red Hook still have the housing project that make up most of Red hook....I use to live there many years ago,crime rate is still the same.If they turn those housing project into Co-op City like,you will see the community improve. Back of Red hook had change by the water front,you will see alot of white people living back there.There's coffee shops run by whites and you will see alot of them going to fairway supermarket.....I believe most of them come from the park slope area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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