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Start of Service to Bricktowne Centre


Amtrak7

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Actually now that I've looked again quickly at the X1 it is the same. I was looking at the times that they arrive at the ETC and that's why I got mixed up. I was hoping they would add a later bus so I could hang out later in the city, but I'll keep hoping. :mad:

 

They did however add an X10 on Sundays... If I recall correctly it is still a 45 minute wait from 11:44 to 12:29, BUT it used to be an hour wait from 12:29 until 13:29 there at Slosson and Schmidts. :mad: They added a bus at 13:59, so that's the difference. ;) I've got these damn express bus schedules etched in my mind like clockwork since I rely on them so heavily to get around. I still want to see later runs on the X14 and X30. Notice they haven't updated those yet... :mad:

 

 

 

Regarding the extra buses, believe it or not, the local and express buses are very crowded at that time of night. If you notice the X10 schedule, at 12:00 there is a 00:06 and then a 00:23, and bother are heavily used. The X1 is also is very crowded and sometimes is even SRO at that time, hence why we need service extended for both the X1 and X10 past 01:30 in the morning. The could run the last bus at 02:30 even from Midtown and that would be great.

 

The locals get heavy usage too, esp. the (S53) and I can recall when I went out and got drunk when I was younger and made my way onto the (S48) they were quite full also, not packed, but still well used. You will see more folks using the service later esp. now that more and more folks are coming from Brooklyn.

 

You better have those schedule memorized. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be happy even waiting 30 minutes for a bus (like you said "sono sempre in fretta")

 

I know both routes are heavily used. I remember last summer, my family was returning from Six Flags, so we walked from the PATH station at the World Trade Center to the X10 stop at Vesey Street, and we saw 2 X1s pass by, with the first one being almost completely filled, and the second one having a decent load. Our X10 came (it came around 00:50, so I assume it was the 00:15 from Midtown), and by the time we reached Battery Place, I think there were only 1 or 2 seats left.

 

I remember when I took the 22:00 S96 from St. George, the bus had a couple of standees, and I remember looking at an S62 and seeing it with standees spread out from the front to the back. It was weird because I always knew the S46 to be much more crowded than the S62, but I guess that is the advantage of the S96 running.

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I know they're crowded. I was surprised to see the 12:15 so crowded.

 

Tons of Slavic people too, which I don't see on any other X10 aside from the really late ones during the week and they all get off at Fingerboard too. I get the feeling those folks work several jobs because they're not suit and tie types. Of course you have a few professionals like myself who either work in the office late or hang out in the city and then you have the college kids that may get on, so it is very interesting bus to say the least.

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I really don't like how the (MTA) changed the routes for the Bricktown Centre. This is how I would have changed it.

 

 

(S84)full route via Arthur Kill running between Tottenville and St George serving Bricktown. Operates weekdays only 6am-11pm. "Limited Stop" between Richmond Ave and St George's. All stops 9pm-11pm(last bus).

 

 

(S74)runs between Bricktowne Center and St George's at all times via Athur Kill Local. Weekdays when the (S84)is running all S74's start/end at the Eligntville Transit Center.

 

(S78)re-routed to serve and terminate at Bricktowne.

 

(S59)extended to Bricktowne rush hours only.

 

The soon to be new routing in the Bricktowne/Tottenville area is a master plan IMO to permanetly take off bus service on Arthur Kill *South* of Bricktowne and thus have riders in that area use the nearby SI Railway or the (S78) along Hylan.

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Tons of Slavic people too, which I don't see on any other X10 aside from the really late ones during the week and they all get off at Fingerboard too. I get the feeling those folks work several jobs because they're not suit and tie types. Of course you have a few professionals like myself who either work in the office late or hang out in the city and then you have the college kids that may get on, so it is very interesting bus to say the least.

 

Interesting. Are they on the X1 as well?

 

I wonder how much ridership the X17 would get if it ran later into the evening. If you think about it, there is no easy way to get to Richmond Avenue at night, since the S44 stops running at 00:30. Factor in the fact that you have to get the 00:00 ferry from Whitehall Street, and you're basically screwed if you miss the last X17. You have to take the X10 to Richmond Avenue and then hope that you can transfer to the S44 or S59 (I think you'd beat the S44 if you caught the X10 that leaves Midtown at 23:55)

 

Fortunately for me, I can take the X10, or I can take the S62 (or the S46 if need be)

 

I really don't like how the (MTA) changed the routes for the Bricktown Centre. This is how I would have changed it.

 

 

(S84)full route via Arthur Kill running between Tottenville and St George serving Bricktown. Operates weekdays only 6am-11pm. "Limited Stop" between Richmond Ave and St George's. All stops 9pm-11pm(last bus).

 

 

(S74)runs between Bricktowne Center and St George's at all times via Athur Kill Local. Weekdays when the (S84)is running all S74's start/end at the Eligntville Transit Center.

 

(S78)re-routed to serve and terminate at Bricktowne.

 

(S59)extended to Bricktowne.

 

The soon to be new routing in the Bricktowne/Tottenville area is a master plan IMO to permanetly take off bus service on Arthur Kill *South* of Bricktowne and thus have riders in that area use the nearby SI Railway or the (S78) along Hylan.

 

There isn't enough ridership along Arthur Kill Road (even east of Richmond Avenue) to warrant both the S74 and S84 running.

 

I don't think the MTA is planning on discontinuing service to Arthur Kill Road in Tottenville. The S78 will cover it while providing people along Hylan Blvd with direct access to Bricktowne.

 

And your plan only leaves Arthur Kill Road with S74/S84 service on weekdays. Weekends, riders would still have to take the S78 like they do now.

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There isn't enough ridership along Arthur Kill Road (even east of Richmond Avenue) to warrant both the S74 and S84 running.

 

I don't think the MTA is planning on discontinuing service to Arthur Kill Road in Tottenville. The S78 will cover it while providing people along Hylan Blvd with direct access to Bricktowne.

 

And your plan only leaves Arthur Kill Road with S74/S84 service on weekdays. Weekends, riders would still have to take the S78 like they do now.

 

 

The riders along Arthur Kill now lose a direct bus *South* of Bricktown going to ETC and points along Richmond Rd. Unless the (MTA) plans to provide an 'extra' transfer for former (S74) riders will not benefit.

 

 

And checkmate I said weekdays all (S84) run the entire length of Arthur Kill/Richmond Rd. between Tottenville and St George via Bricktowne.

On weekends/overnights the (S74)would have service *east* of Bricktowne and the (S78) *west* of Bricktowne.

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Interesting. Are they on the X1 as well?

 

On the X1s sometimes I'll hear Russian but not a lot. I do know that they're moving down in Great Kills in particular, but the South Shore is still predominately Italian-American so I don't see them taking over like they have in Brighton Beach or parts of Sheepshead Bay. Another thing that is interesting about the Eastern Europeans that have moved to Staten Island is they're actually conservative. :confused: They're trying to align themselves politically with the way most Staten Islanders and folks from Southern Brooklyn are, which is Republican and conservative. While I'm an Independent I will consider myself more conservative particularly with fiscal issues and taxes, so I lean Republican that way. I tend to a bit more liberal w/other issues, but not enough to align myself w/the Democrats per se. I tend to vote for third party candidates like the folks from the Libertarian party or Tea Party types, though I have voted for quite a few Republicans as well as a few Conservative Democrats here and there. :cool:

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The riders along Arthur Kill now lose a direct bus *South* of Bricktown going to ETC and points along Richmond Rd. Unless the (MTA) plans to provide an 'extra' transfer for former (S74) riders will not benefit.

 

 

And checkmate I said weekdays all (S84) run the entire length of Arthur Kill/Richmond Rd. between Tottenville and St George via Bricktowne.

On weekends/overnights the (S74)would have service *east* of Bricktowne and the (S78) *west* of Bricktowne.

 

I know, but weekends, riders wouls still be forced to use the S78 (or SIR).

 

As far as an extra transfer goes, I don't see the need. The S74 connects with the same routes as the S78.

 

According to the MTA, 200 riders per day would have to transfer to travel between the two sections of Arthur Kill Road. The savings by having this pattern are $350,000 per year, so that means that, for each passenger that has to transfer, the MTA saves about $5. Not to mention the fact that those riders will be (at least partially) offset by riders who have direct access to Bricktowne.

 

In any case, like I said before, ridership along Arthur Kill Road is only high enough to warrant S84 service during rush hours.

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I know, but weekends, riders wouls still be forced to use the S78 (or SIR).

 

As far as an extra transfer goes, I don't see the need. The S74 connects with the same routes as the S78.

 

According to the MTA, 200 riders per day would have to transfer to travel between the two sections of Arthur Kill Road. The savings by having this pattern are $350,000 per year, so that means that, for each passenger that has to transfer, the MTA saves about $5. Not to mention the fact that those riders will be (at least partially) offset by riders who have direct access to Bricktowne.

 

In any case, like I said before, ridership along Arthur Kill Road is only high enough to warrant S84 service during rush hours.

 

Since the S74/84 is such a long route then during off peak you can have the (S84) run local.

 

another question? If Bricktowne is becoming a semi transit hub for SW Staten Island, why not the (S59) and the (X22) or (X19) not also stopping there?

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What do you think the one-minute headway from 0000 to 0002 on the S74 outbound Sunday is for? Those will probably be the emptiest buses in regular service leaving St George!

 

And the July schedule changes include ending the (S57) one hour earlier daily.

 

Also, remember that there is no S76 on the weekends, so those customers have to use the S74. Like mentioned before, multiple buses are used to prevent overcrowding.

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Since the S74/84 is such a long route then during off peak you can have the (S84) run local.

 

another question? If Bricktowne is becoming a semi transit hub for SW Staten Island, why not the (S59) and the (X22) or (X19) not also stopping there?

 

That eats into the savings, though. Part of the savings come from buses having a very easy deadhead to Charleston .

 

Not to mention the fact that very few passengers are affected anyway (and they would still have a longer trip time, since the S74 would have to go into Bricktowne and then come back out).

 

As far as service being rerouted there goes, the X22 won't go there because nobody is really going directly to a mall after work, and it would delay people going to Tottenville.

 

The X19 would probably work, since most of the buses are probably deadheading to Charleston anyway. It could travel via Woodrow Road->Bloomingdale Road->Englewood Avenue->Veterans Road West, providing that part of the South Shore with a direct route to Lower Manhattan (the X22 currently goes to Midtown)

 

The S59 would probably cost some extra money, and they probably figure that very few people from Richmond Avenue would be using it.

 

Also, remember that there is no S76 on the weekends, so those customers have to use the S74. Like mentioned before, multiple buses are used to prevent overcrowding.

 

I don't think the overcrowding is really related to the elimination of the weekend S76 though: I think it is just the fact that there are a lot of people on that ferry.

 

By the way, is that second trip well-used all the way to Richmond Avenue, because would think that it would empty out by the time it passes Park Hill. Maybe they're sending the "backup" bus all the way to Eltingville because it is going to deadhead anyway (are the short-turns based out of Charleston or Yukon?)

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That eats into the savings, though. Part of the savings come from buses having a very easy deadhead to Charleston .

 

Not to mention the fact that very few passengers are affected anyway (and they would still have a longer trip time, since the S74 would have to go into Bricktowne and then come back out).

 

As far as service being rerouted there goes, the X22 won't go there because nobody is really going directly to a mall after work, and it would delay people going to Tottenville.

 

The X19 would probably work, since most of the buses are probably deadheading to Charleston anyway. It could travel via Woodrow Road->Bloomingdale Road->Englewood Avenue->Veterans Road West, providing that part of the South Shore with a direct route to Lower Manhattan (the X22 currently goes to Midtown)

 

The S59 would probably cost some extra money, and they probably figure that very few people from Richmond Avenue would be using it.

 

 

 

I don't think the overcrowding is really related to the elimination of the weekend S76 though: I think it is just the fact that there are a lot of people on that ferry.

 

By the way, is that second trip well-used all the way to Richmond Avenue, because would think that it would empty out by the time it passes Park Hill. Maybe they're sending the "backup" bus all the way to Eltingville because it is going to deadhead anyway (are the short-turns based out of Charleston or Yukon?)

 

How much more do you want to reroute the X17 variations??? Have you seen how crowded those X19s get?? If anything, Tottenville should have their own Downtown service. They could study ridership patterns first to see where folks go after they use the X22 and if enough of them are going Downtown, then they could run a few and try it out. I don't think any of the X17 variations need to be extended or re-routed anymore because they are packed enough as it is and X17 riders already complain that they make too many stops and serve too many areas as it is.

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The X19 extension would cost absolutely nothing, considering those buses are deadheading in that direction anyway. An X22 variant to Downtown would be nice, but that would cost more money.

 

A bus deadheading will get back quicker than a bus in service. Also, as someone else pointed out in other threads about this whole deadheading back vs picking up passengers, if you're only picking up a few people then it may not be that cost neutral to do so.

 

Actually my question is why don't they have Downtown service anyway? They have the least amount of transportation options in Tottenville, while areas like Mariners Harbor have Downtown and Midtown service, which is BS. :mad:

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A bus deadheading will get back quicker than a bus in service. Also, as someone else pointed out in other threads about this whole deadheading back vs picking up passengers, if you're only picking up a few people then it may not be that cost neutral to do so.

 

Actually my question is why don't they have Downtown service anyway? They have the least amount of transportation options in Tottenville, while areas like Mariners Harbor have Downtown and Midtown service, which is BS. :mad:

 

Academy used to run a 6AM bus from Tottenville to Downtown.

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A bus deadheading will get back quicker than a bus in service. Also, as someone else pointed out in other threads about this whole deadheading back vs picking up passengers, if you're only picking up a few people then it may not be that cost neutral to do so.

 

Actually my question is why don't they have Downtown service anyway? They have the least amount of transportation options in Tottenville, while areas like Mariners Harbor have Downtown and Midtown service, which is BS. :mad:

 

But how much extra time would they really spend dropping off the people? Maybe 5-10 minutes at most, and whatever money is lost by doing that could be made up by the extra passengers paying fares.

 

As far as Downtown service is concerned, I'm sure a lot of them do what you do: They take the X22 to Arthur Kill Road, and then they transfer to the X19 to get to Lower Manhattan.

 

Mariners' Harbor has Downtown and Midtown service because it would probably look bad to send them to Port Richmond, considering the fact that the X10 and X14 provide service to Manhattan. So they decided to send it to another area that is far from Manhattan: Mariners' Harbor.

 

It does pick up a couple of people along Forest Avenue, though once it hits South Avenue, there are only 3-4 people left.

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Elaborate. What don't you agree with? The fact that Tottenville loses direct service to the Eltingville Transit Center?

 

Like I said before, it would unnecessarily elongate the S74 route if it served Bricktowne and Tottenville. Riders in Tottenville would have to sit through the S74 route as it loops through Bricktowne. At least this way, they have access to the S78, which helps if they are going to an area near both bus routes (assuming that area isn't served by the SIR).

 

What I do think should happen is that some trippers should operate to I.S.34 after serving Bricktowne, since a lot of complaints regarding school bus service being eliminated were based on the fact that the S74 didn't directly serve the school. (Of course, the other complaints, such as no sidewalks at the bus stops, and long distances to the bus stop would have to be addressed seperately, if at all)

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I don't really agree with this (S74) truncation to Bricktowne

 

The (S74) re-route means a lot less buses idling down in Tottenville on the very narrow streets, thus less pollution, so it is a win in many aspects. The only thing that should happen is more frequent service on the (S78) where possible to Tottenville.

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Which I believe has actually occurred. I believe the buses used to run every 20 minutes during middays, and the new schedule has them running every 15 minutes (can somebody with an old S78 schedule confirm this?)

 

Weekends, service will continue to run every 30 minutes west of Richmond Avenue.

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Which I believe has actually occurred. I believe the buses used to run every 20 minutes during middays, and the new schedule has them running every 15 minutes (can somebody with an old S78 schedule confirm this?)

 

Weekends, service will continue to run every 30 minutes west of Richmond Avenue.

 

That's a start I suppose, but they can do better than 30 minutes west of "Rich" Ave as the (MTA) likes to put it. Every 15 minutes would be much better.

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It would be better, but there isn't the ridership to support 15 minute headways. Think about it: Besides Bricktowne itself and Tottenville, what else is along Hylan Blvd?

 

The same applies to the S74 to a to a lesser extent, since people actually live in Arden Heights and Rossville.

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It would be better, but there isn't the ridership to support 15 minute headways. Think about it: Besides Bricktowne itself and Tottenville, what else is along Hylan Blvd?

 

The same applies to the S74 to a to a lesser extent, since people actually live in Arden Heights and Rossville.

 

Yeah, I know all of that, but still. You can't grow ridership is the frequencies suck and the buses are unreliable. You'll keep people in their cars.

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They're going to stay in their cars anyway. How many people are going to pay $2.25 for a bus when their car will get them to their destination cheaper and faster? A bus can't compete with a car in that type of suburban environment.

 

When gas prices spike, people drive LESS and look for cheaper alternatives. I've been cutting back on car service and picking and choosing when to use it since I think $10.00 for a 5 minute ride is ridiculous, but in the summertime when it gets hot, I will use it a lot more since the local buses on Staten Island tend to be annoying and hot with the crowds trying to get to the express bus. I basically go in spurts.

 

I made a stop last night after getting off of the X14 and took car service since I had my Whole Foods bags and tomorrow I will use car service since I need to return a package.

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But like I said before, the South Shore is spread out and car-centric, so there is a limit to how high ridership can go, even if fuel prices spike up.

 

If gas prices really spike up, one of two things will happen:

 

Everybody will move to the more walkable and transit-oriented North Shore (or another walkable and transit-oriented community)

 

You'll see people selling their homes to developers, who will build more dense housing, which will naturally support a more walkable and transit-oriented environment.

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