Amtrak7 Posted April 18, 2011 Share #51 Posted April 18, 2011 All of the ferries are struggling. NJ has one of the highest average incomes in the country and NY Waterway and BillyBey are positioned perfectly to serve the market. However, they are struggling too. Only SeaStreak is stable right now and they took a beating and a half in 2008. It is very difficult to run a ferry profitably. You have to service people who put a healthy premium on time. What is BillyBey? I've heard it many times. Ferry fares are absolutely ridiculous. From the fare hike document: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted April 18, 2011 Share #52 Posted April 18, 2011 That still wouldnt work, whats the point of sending the bus to Brooklyn when it has direct access via Woodhaven Blvd & Cross Bay Blvd where the route also serves passengers.....? What the hell kind of sense does that make?If they extend it this close to Bklyn, Wouldn't it be quicker (more direct) then if it just went straight down Flatbush, and joined the BM routes via the Gowanus, then going in the other direction towards central Queens? Like maybe reroute the whole line so that it starts at Cross Bay and just heads he other way toward Brooklyn. Wouldn't that be even better than the LIE and the rest of that stretch (which already has dozens of express routes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 18, 2011 Share #53 Posted April 18, 2011 What is BillyBey? I've heard it many times. An operator & contractor of most of NY Waterway's routes.... It was the company that saved NY Waterway's ass from gettin shutdown.... That's about as much as I can remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 18, 2011 Share #54 Posted April 18, 2011 The last weekday trip inbound and the first outbound trips are deleted. The MTA may be overserving the BMs off peak, however. Under Command, it was 2 buses on the line on BM1-3 on Saturdays and 1 bus on the BM4 and the then-BQM1. Weekday service, however, was more frequent. IMO, the MTA should have service on the BM1-3 at 90 minute headways and the BM5 should be back to every 3 hours, with the QM15 also being every 3 hours to provide 90-minute headways on Woodhaven Boulevard. That's a bit ridiculous and there is enough demand that cutting it back to every 90 minutes would be a serious problem. Aside from that we would raise a fit if that happened and I say we because I use the BM express bus lines (BM1, BM3) quite frequently to get back to Southern Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted April 18, 2011 Share #55 Posted April 18, 2011 If they extend it this close to Bklyn, Wouldn't it be quicker (more direct) then if it just went straight down Flatbush, and joined the BM routes via the Gowanus, then going in the other direction towards central Queens? Like maybe reroute the whole line so that it starts at Cross Bay and just heads he other way toward Brooklyn. Wouldn't that be even better than the LIE and the rest of that stretch (which already has dozens of express routes). To some extent it would be good. The only issue is that the QM16 serves peeps along Woodhaven and Cross Bay Blvds. It would bring up problems in the areas affected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted April 18, 2011 Share #56 Posted April 18, 2011 To some extent it would be good. The only issue is that the QM16 serves peeps along Woodhaven and Cross Bay Blvds. It would bring up problems in the areas affected not exactly as it has LIMITED STOPS so it can only serve so many ppl there if not enough on those stops let them use QM17 which also stops there then if frequency is an issue add more QM17 or extend QM15 select trips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted April 18, 2011 Share #57 Posted April 18, 2011 not exactly as it has LIMITED STOPS so it can only serve so many ppl there if not enough on those stops let them use QM17 which also stops there then if frequency is an issue add more QM17 or extend QM15 select trips You dont get it do you? QM15s, 16s and 17s have different stops along the way. The QM15 is basically a local compared to the QM16 and QM17 along that corridor. Sending it through Brooklyn would make the trips much longer and raises unwanted mileage on the buses. This is not a matter of extending. Stop talking about extending if you don't even got the money to pay for the damn extensions. Like I keep telling you especially with that shit about the B24/Q104, check out the areas before you even start spouting your silly ideas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted April 18, 2011 Share #58 Posted April 18, 2011 You dont get it do you? QM15s, 16s and 17s have different stops along the way. The QM15 is basically a local compared to the QM16 and QM17 along that corridor. Sending it through Brooklyn would make the trips much longer and raises unwanted mileage on the buses. This is not a matter of extending. Stop talking about extending if you don't even got the money to pay for the damn extensions. ok so then just say that the rte through BK will be longer thats all u need to say calm down its not that serious!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted April 18, 2011 Share #59 Posted April 18, 2011 Speaking off Breezy Point, this is checkpoint before Beach 201st St, right? [GMAPS]<iframe width="562" height="314" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=Beach+169th+St,+NY+11697&aq=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=28.749334,74.53125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Beach+169th+St,+Queens,+New+York+11697&layer=c&cbll=40.560826,-73.909507&panoid=F6M1kmVEzZd8F-0j3fN2BQ&cbp=13,279.29,,0,1.25&ll=40.554977,-73.909664&spn=0.020477,0.048237&z=14&output=svembed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=Beach+169th+St,+NY+11697&aq=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=28.749334,74.53125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Beach+169th+St,+Queens,+New+York+11697&layer=c&cbll=40.560826,-73.909507&panoid=F6M1kmVEzZd8F-0j3fN2BQ&cbp=13,279.29,,0,1.25&ll=40.554977,-73.909664&spn=0.020477,0.048237&z=14" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>[/GMAPS] I wonder why traffic is on right side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted April 19, 2011 Share #60 Posted April 19, 2011 I agree that NY Waterway fares are too damn high. I wanted to fan their ferries once, did some research for fare info and it costs like 8 dollars and change to go from Midtown to Hoboken, you gotta be kidding me! I can't believe there are people that take those boats over the much cheaper Path/NJT 126 to get to the station there. Also, exception of Lower Manhattan, the ferry terminals themselves are isolated from the CBD, you have to take a bus to get to it, where Path and PABT is right there, I really wonder why people choose NY waterway over the train or bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted April 19, 2011 Share #61 Posted April 19, 2011 During Evening rush hour from Wall St Pier, I see there's long time of NYWY riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted April 19, 2011 Share #62 Posted April 19, 2011 I agree that NY Waterway fares are too damn high. I wanted to fan their ferries once, did some research for fare info and it costs like 8 dollars and change to go from Midtown to Hoboken, you gotta be kidding me! I can't believe there are people that take those boats over the much cheaper Path/NJT 126 to get to the station there. Also, exception of Lower Manhattan, the ferry terminals themselves are isolated from the CBD, you have to take a bus to get to it, where Path and PABT is right there, I really wonder why people choose NY waterway over the train or bus. That's why they provide free shuttle buses. And if you look above, it's now $9 from HOB to 39 and $10.75 HOB-WFC. Yuki: Yes that's the checkpoint. If you zoom in on the sign, the left side of the booth (where the Google van is) says "Thru Traffic", while the right side says something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 19, 2011 Share #63 Posted April 19, 2011 Managed to take the QM16 today.... Let's just say, it aint go to no B. 169th st.... ...and I feel sorry for QM17 riders that had to take this bus.. (yes, QM17 riders... that's not a typo). I'll post up, about this debacle, later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted April 19, 2011 Share #64 Posted April 19, 2011 You dont get it do you? QM15s, 16s and 17s have different stops along the way. The QM15 is basically a local compared to the QM16 and QM17 along that corridor. Sending it through Brooklyn would make the trips much longer and raises unwanted mileage on the buses. I didn't know the 16 made different stops from the other routes.But how would going through Brooklyn make the route longer. If it goes to B169 St., it's almost in Brooklyn, yet it would then head away, into central Queens. the Gowanus is much closer to there than Queens Blvd and the LIE (and isn't the crowding over there worse?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted April 19, 2011 Share #65 Posted April 19, 2011 I didn't know the 16 made different stops from the other routes.But how would going through Brooklyn make the route longer. If it goes to B169 St., it's almost in Brooklyn, yet it would then head away, into central Queens. the Gowanus is much closer to there than Queens Blvd and the LIE (and isn't the crowding over there worse?) The 15 has more stops over the 16 in Queens considering the 15 ends at Lindenwood. The only reason I think that this might be longer is because of the majority of traffic it would hit along the way as the Gowanus gets hit pretty hard compared to the L.I.E. Woodhaven is a nice stretch and the buses just fly through there. Depending on the time of day, crowding on the L.I.E can be substantially worse than the Gowanus, but the distance to the Gowanus to the BQE seems to be the same as compared to the L.I.E to the Woodhaven Blvd exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 20, 2011 Share #66 Posted April 20, 2011 If they extend it this close to Bklyn, Wouldn't it be quicker (more direct) then if it just went straight down Flatbush, and joined the BM routes via the Gowanus, then going in the other direction towards central Queens? Like maybe reroute the whole line so that it starts at Cross Bay and just heads he other way toward Brooklyn. Wouldn't that be even better than the LIE and the rest of that stretch (which already has dozens of express routes). I didn't know the 16 made different stops from the other routes.But how would going through Brooklyn make the route longer. If it goes to B169 St., it's almost in Brooklyn, yet it would then head away, into central Queens. the Gowanus is much closer to there than Queens Blvd and the LIE (and isn't the crowding over there worse?) I wouldn't suggest any (other) express route pan down Flatbush av... bad enough the BM2 has to use parts of it.... Buses shooting across the LIE & down Woodhaven/Cross bay, I see as being less time consuming than... ....buses emanating from *somewhere along Cross Bay*... down to Broad Channel.... serving the western portion of the Rockaways that it currently does... coming back up the Gil Hodges... to have to deal w/ the headache that is Flatbush av.... to parallel the BM buses via the FDR, enroute to Midtown Manhattan... the situation b/w the LIE, in comparison to the Gowanus, is a wash IMO.... But you won't coast along Flatbush av, the way QM16's coast along woodhaven.... The only real chokepoint in Queens, is along the LIE itself... if it were to travel via Brooklyn, whole 'nother story bro..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAzumah Posted April 20, 2011 Share #67 Posted April 20, 2011 I wouldn't suggest any (other) express route pan down Flatbush av... bad enough the BM2 has to use parts of it.... Buses shooting across the LIE & down Woodhaven/Cross bay, I see as being less time consuming than... ....buses emanating from *somewhere along Cross Bay*... down to Broad Channel.... serving the western portion of the Rockaways that it currently does... coming back up the Gil Hodges... to have to deal w/ the headache that is Flatbush av.... to parallel the BM buses via the FDR, enroute to Midtown Manhattan... the situation b/w the LIE, in comparison to the Gowanus, is a wash IMO.... But you won't coast along Flatbush av, the way QM16's coast along woodhaven.... The only real chokepoint in Queens, is along the LIE itself... if it were to travel via Brooklyn, whole 'nother story bro..... If they only went up to Avenue J and cut across to Coney Island Avenue, that could work. The BM2 happens to run in one of the narrow sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 20, 2011 Share #68 Posted April 20, 2011 I didn't know the 16 made different stops from the other routes.But how would going through Brooklyn make the route longer. If it goes to B169 St., it's almost in Brooklyn, yet it would then head away, into central Queens. the Gowanus is much closer to there than Queens Blvd and the LIE (and isn't the crowding over there worse?) If they only went up to Avenue J and cut across to Coney Island Avenue, that could work. The BM2 happens to run in one of the narrow sections. With all of these proposals of meandering through Brooklyn, we could rename it the "QMB16". It's an express bus for crying out loud which says "QM16" for a reason. Keep it where it is!! :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted April 20, 2011 Share #69 Posted April 20, 2011 With all of these proposals of meandering through Brooklyn, we could rename it the "QMB16". It's an express bus for crying out loud which says "QM16" for a reason. Keep it where it is!! :mad: My point exactly, thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted April 21, 2011 Share #70 Posted April 21, 2011 I get it cause buses cant go beyong sheepshead bay on belt they would have to deal with flatbush to get to rockaway park which will kill off the reason for the bus going express Ok why didnt ya say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAzumah Posted April 21, 2011 Share #71 Posted April 21, 2011 With all of these proposals of meandering through Brooklyn, we could rename it the "QMB16". It's an express bus for crying out loud which says "QM16" for a reason. Keep it where it is!! :mad: A new route, not the QM16. The QM16 base to Midtown is established, but a downtown bus should go through Brooklyn as it is faster. Breezy Point has been asking for a downtown bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 21, 2011 Share #72 Posted April 21, 2011 A new route, not the QM16. The QM16 base to Midtown is established, but a downtown bus should go through Brooklyn as it is faster. Breezy Point has been asking for a downtown bus. I see plenty of QM buses Downtown and they clearly don't go through Brooklyn. Too many factors come into play. It's just like the X14 in the morning. It has to contend w/the traffic on the Gowanus, then the traffic on Water St. then the traffic on the FDR and then finally the traffic on 23rd and then on Madison. Same situation here with sending a QM bus through Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted April 21, 2011 Share #73 Posted April 21, 2011 If a Downtown Express route were to come out of either JFK or FR depots. I would've expected something like a Wall Street to South Ozone Park type route or to Far Rockaway. That would benefit a lot of people who have to deal with the and the other surrounding lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 21, 2011 Share #74 Posted April 21, 2011 I see plenty of QM buses Downtown and they clearly don't go through Brooklyn. Too many factors come into play. It's just like the X14 in the morning. It has to contend w/the traffic on the Gowanus, then the traffic on Water St. then the traffic on the FDR and then finally the traffic on 23rd and then on Madison. Same situation here with sending a QM bus through Brooklyn. Those routes serve Northern and Central Queens, so it makes sense for them to travel via the LIE and then use the FDR Drive to go Downtown. The Rockaways are further south, so in order to serve Downtown, they would have to go all the way up Woodhaven Blvd to the LIE, and then go all the way downtown on the FDR Drive. It would be much faster to take the train if the buses were to take that routing. Going through Brooklyn is more direct, distance-wise. As far as travel time goes, even on the worst of days, I still think it would be faster than having to go all the way up to the LIE and then all the way back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 21, 2011 Share #75 Posted April 21, 2011 Those routes serve Northern and Central Queens, so it makes sense for them to travel via the LIE and then use the FDR Drive to go Downtown. The Rockaways are further south, so in order to serve Downtown, they would have to go all the way up Woodhaven Blvd to the LIE, and then go all the way downtown on the FDR Drive. It would be much faster to take the train if the buses were to take that routing. Going through Brooklyn is more direct, distance-wise. As far as travel time goes, even on the worst of days, I still think it would be faster than having to go all the way up to the LIE and then all the way back down. Like I said, you still have too many factors that come into play and I don't understand why they'd be meandering through the streets Brooklyn anyway as Jazumah suggested. That was sort of my issue. Also, what they could do is come up going by the Belt Pkwy, but that seems like way too much meandering as well. They still would have to be able to get over to the HOV lane on the Gowanus too, not to mention the traffic etc. on the Belt Pkwy. Going South of the FDR the traffic usually isn't that bad anyway, so they should just do what the QMs do now and use the LIE and go down via the FDR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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