QM16 extends to Beach 169th St April 18th

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I had no clue that they actually COMBINE the 16/17.... something had to have happened for that to have taken place....

 

 

That is insane!! How in the hell would anyone know that it was a QM16 and a QM17 and since when did Bus combine express buses?? I'm sure checkmate would love that idea... LOL

[Q101viaSteinway]

Maybe bus broke down

[B35 via Church]

Did it come back as a 17? According to the schedule, there are no interlinings, but can someone with a run sheet for FR verify?

 

Yup... after I (and 2 others) got off at 116th, that's when she changed the destination sign to that of the QM17....

 

What I left out was, I actually know (well, came to know) a commuter that takes the same run... we wait @ that same stop @ 38th at the same time.... but, he got on at the 44th st stop that day....

 

the day after, I asked him, did the bus ever go out to B 169th... he goes, no, what it did was do the loop, and went on beach channel drive.. I believe that, b/c that's what QM16's used to do when they ended @ B 147th, heading back towards the depot.... I asked him b/c he gets off at B 135th, walks over to 137th, and up to cronston...

 

anyway, once again, I had to haul a** for the Q35... I am so sick of doin that (this is why I would normally take the 16 to B 147th, and wait for the Q35 there).... b/c it's like, whenever the QM16's set to arrive @ B 116th, or when the Q53 arrives at it's terminal (B 116th st), I see a Q35 on B. 116th sitting at a red light, heading back to Brooklyn.... either that, or I have to wait 15+ mins for the b/o to get off layover.....

 

^^ so far this year, I'm 6 for 6 when I have to dart out to 118th/newport; haven't missed it once.... 2 of the times, the (same driver, an asian guy... cool dude) let up, so that helped my success rate... LOL.....

 

 

 

That is insane!! How in the hell would anyone know that it was a QM16 and a QM17 and since when did Bus combine express buses?? I'm sure checkmate would love that idea... LOL

 

bro, I was lucky it was signed as the 16 when I saw it waiting 5th/34th... otherwise, I'd have let it go & paid it no mind... if one less person boarded at that stop, I would have missed it... that's how close it was...

 

there's a QM16 that leaves the stop I normally board at (38th/6th) ~6:15, then the next run (which is the last run) arrives ~ 6:45

the 17 is somethin like ~ 6:35, and the last run reaches that same stop ~7:05 or somethin like that....

 

 

...and I'm waitin for CC13 to come up w/ some grand idea about combining runs of differing express routes....

 

 

Maybe bus broke down

That also crossed my mind, as I was walking along 5th av, before I boarded that QM16/17.....

 

but I'm still thinking that false (first) QM15 I saw, wasn't a QM15 at all.....

[checkmatechamp13]

That is insane!! How in the hell would anyone know that it was a QM16 and a QM17 and since when did Bus combine express buses?? I'm sure checkmate would love that idea... LOL

 

C'mon. You know me better than that. When I say cut service, I mean unnecessary service, and service that has low ridership.

 

Combining the QM16 and QM17 would be ridiculous: That would add unnecessary time to the trip.

 

 

...and I'm waitin for CC13 to come up w/ some grand idea about combining runs of differing express routes....

 

 

 

The only ones I've ever suggested were combining the BxM6/BxM10, and the BxM7/BxM7A (off-peak).

 

Anything else would increase the travel time too much.

[Amtrak7]

...and I'm waitin for CC13 to come up w/ some grand idea about combining runs of differing express routes....

 

But that would be counterproductive in most cases since express buses are designed to use more highways to be more competitive with the automobile, not to mention faster than the local bus.

 

I can think of a couple ideas off the top of my head, but they mostly would NOT work during peak hours. And for a place like the Rockaways where the main highway is located in the middle, a combined route would mean a dogleg for certain passengers. If the bus went via Flatbush, it would work, but it would be too congested. But, for the Rockaways, a bus from B 169 to Midtown via Far Rockaway, Nassau Exy/Rockaway Bl, Van Wyck, and the LIE might work...

 

The only time it works is when the two routes are such that stops can be removed from one with minimal ridership loss and added from the other without adjusting the cardinal direction of travel... things like combining QM21 and x63, the BxM7 and BxM7A, the BxM10 and BxM6, or extending the offpeak QM5 to the towers and giving up on Union Tpk service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

C'mon. You know me better than that. When I say cut service, I mean unnecessary service, and service that has low ridership.

 

Combining the QM16 and QM17 would be ridiculous: That would add unnecessary time to the trip.

 

 

 

The only ones I've ever suggested were combining the BxM6/BxM10, and the BxM7/BxM7A (off-peak).

 

Anything else would increase the travel time too much.

 

I don't see how these ideas are any more different than your local bus/express combo ideas. :tdown:

 

 

...and I'm waitin for CC13 to come up w/ some grand idea about combining runs of differing express routes....

 

lol... So was I...

[checkmatechamp13]

But that would be counterproductive in most cases since express buses are designed to use more highways to be more competitive with the automobile, not to mention faster than the local bus.

 

I can think of a couple ideas off the top of my head, but they mostly would NOT work during peak hours. And for a place like the Rockaways where the main highway is located in the middle, a combined route would mean a dogleg for certain passengers. If the bus went via Flatbush, it would work, but it would be too congested. But, for the Rockaways, a bus from B 169 to Midtown via Far Rockaway, Nassau Exy/Rockaway Bl, Van Wyck, and the LIE might work...

 

The only time it works is when the two routes are such that stops can be removed from one with minimal ridership loss and added from the other without adjusting the cardinal direction of travel... things like combining QM21 and x63, the BxM7 and BxM7A, the BxM10 and BxM6, or extending the offpeak QM5 to the towers and giving up on Union Tpk service.

 

I want the MTA to reduce its costs, but I don't want them to go overboard with it. Combining routes like the QM16 and QM17 would add too much travel time to be worth it.

 

I don't see how these ideas are any more different than your local bus/express combo ideas. :tdown:

 

 

 

 

lol... So was I...

 

So which local/express bus combo ideas were so bad? Come to think about it, I've never proposed any express bus combination ideas (besides those 2), so I don't know where you're getting that from (aside from the X19 extension which would cost no money and provide direct downtown service to Pleasant Plains, and the rerouting of the X19 to serve South Avenue and provide that area with direct Downtown service)

 

And the 2 I mentioned have been discussed over here before. Even Amtrak7 mentioned them in the post above yours.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I want the MTA to reduce its costs, but I don't want them to go overboard with it. Combining routes like the QM16 and QM17 would add too much travel time to be worth it.

 

 

 

So which local/express bus combo ideas were so bad? Come to think about it, I've never proposed any express bus combination ideas (besides those 2), so I don't know where you're getting that from (aside from the X19 extension which would cost no money and provide direct downtown service to Pleasant Plains, and the rerouting of the X19 to serve South Avenue and provide that area with direct Downtown service)

 

And the 2 I mentioned have been discussed over here before. Even Amtrak7 mentioned them in the post above yours.

 

 

 

The one you proposed yesterday comes to mind immediately... :mad:

lol

[checkmatechamp13]

The X19 one? Like I said, if the buses are overcrowded, they can add more later (plus, an overcrowded service is better than no service).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The X19 one? Like I said, if the buses are overcrowded, they can add more later (plus, an overcrowded service is better than no service).

 

Forget that one... I don't use the X19 so I could care less even though it is still a bad idea, but that letting local bus folks onto the express bus is just a no no. :mad: :tdown:

[checkmatechamp13]

What happened to express bus riders sticking together?

 

In any case, that idea at least made a little bit of sense: I'm sure there is somebody who would be willing to pay extra to avoid having to take a circuituous route on the local bus.

 

And what about people with Unlimited MetroCards, such as yourself? At the public hearing, somebody was complaining that he had an express bus pass, but he couldn't use it to travel within Staten Island.

 

So how about if somebody is willing to pay the $5.50 fare to ride with you? Would you accept it then?

[Amtrak7]

And what about people with Unlimited MetroCards, such as yourself? At the public hearing, somebody was complaining that he had an express bus pass, but he couldn't use it to travel within Staten Island.

 

Express bus cards are also usable as a regular MetroCard...

[checkmatechamp13]

He couldn't board express buses to travel within Staten Island.

[FamousNYLover]

What happened to express bus riders sticking together?

 

In any case, that idea at least made a little bit of sense: I'm sure there is somebody who would be willing to pay extra to avoid having to take a circuituous route on the local bus.

 

And what about people with Unlimited MetroCards, such as yourself? At the public hearing, somebody was complaining that he had an express bus pass, but he couldn't use it to travel within Staten Island.

 

So how about if somebody is willing to pay the $5.50 fare to ride with you? Would you accept it then?

 

Slightly little off-topic but relative, sometimes it happens on Long Island Bus N20/N21 Northern Blvd and N4 Merrick Blvd bus when they using Unlimited Pass.

 

When I went to Jones Beach for first $2.25 fare adventrue, I remember when I was on N4 bus traveliing in Merrick Blvd in Queens, some one try to get off bus within Queens (even thought sign clearly state "Long Island Bus travling eastbound does not drop off passenger within Queens."

 

Another time, when N20 I was near Little Neck Parkway, one Chinese man said, "YOU DIDN"T STOP."

There was big sign on above bus operator's window regardding LIB Policy.

Some non-regular riders think LIB drop off within Queens (excluding N24 somewhere along Jamaica Av, N31/N32/N33 in Far Rockaway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What happened to express bus riders sticking together?

 

In any case, that idea at least made a little bit of sense: I'm sure there is somebody who would be willing to pay extra to avoid having to take a circuituous route on the local bus.

 

And what about people with Unlimited MetroCards, such as yourself? At the public hearing, somebody was complaining that he had an express bus pass, but he couldn't use it to travel within Staten Island.

 

So how about if somebody is willing to pay the $5.50 fare to ride with you? Would you accept it then?

 

 

My understanding was that your X19 idea only involved other express bus riders, not local bus riders. I don't like the idea either way actually, but if it involves the local bus folks getting on our express bus then NO.... LOL :mad:

 

No, but seriously like I said before, bad idea all around... Too many people packing on to what is supposed to be a quick ride Downtown. Downtown express bus routes are made to be short. Your idea makes that run way too long.

 

Furthermore, I would totally against the whole letting local bus folks get on express buses, even if they pay $5.50. That's the one nice thing about DROP OFF ONLY. No tourists can get on asking a thousand questions and the same holds true of the local bus riders. The whole thing would slow down the commute too much and piss of express bus riders for two reasons. Slow commute for a premium fare and quite frankly we do NOT want to ride w/local bus riders. Like I said before, they have their own buses. Let those be restructured to suit their needs. As far as that guy using his MetroCard for the express bus within Staten Island, I sure as hell have done it. You have to pick and choose where.

 

When I left that hearing at CSI, I was certainly not in the mood to deal with a local bus. I waited for an X10, took that to Schmidts Lane got some grub at the supermarket and then I believe I waited for an (S54). I'm more willing to ride that bus because there is usually no one on it and it makes no stops until Forest Avenue, so it is basically like a taxi ride for free.

[checkmatechamp13]

My understanding was that your X19 idea only involved other express bus riders, not local bus riders. I don't like the idea either way actually, but if it involves the local bus folks getting on our express bus then NO.... LOL :mad:

 

No, but seriously like I said before, bad idea all around... Too many people packing on to what is supposed to be a quick ride Downtown. Downtown express bus routes are made to be short. Your idea makes that run way too long.

 

Furthermore, I would totally against the whole letting local bus folks get on express buses, even if they pay $5.50. That's the one nice thing about DROP OFF ONLY. No tourists can get on asking a thousand questions and the same holds true of the local bus riders. The whole thing would slow down the commute too much and piss of express bus riders for two reasons. Slow commute for a premium fare and quite frankly we do NOT want to ride w/local bus riders. Like I said before, they have their own buses. Let those be restructured to suit their needs. As far as that guy using his MetroCard for the express bus within Staten Island, I sure as hell have done it. You have to pick and choose where.

 

When I left that hearing at CSI, I was certainly not in the mood to deal with a local bus. I waited for an X10, took that to Schmidts Lane got some grub at the supermarket and then I believe I waited for an (S54). I'm more willing to ride that bus because there is usually no one on it and it makes no stops until Forest Avenue, so it is basically like a taxi ride for free.

 

The X19 only involved express bus riders. I wouldn't have the buses go to Charleston for the sole purpose of picking up passengers. Either the intraborough travel would affect all express buses or none of them.

 

And not all Downtown routes are meant to be short. Just look at the X15, as well as the X4 (though to a lesser extent, since the X1, X3, and X7 provide service to Lower Manhattan)

 

And tourists aren't going out to the middle of Staten Island to ride the transit system out here, so they're not going to be holding up the buses.

 

And why exactly don't you want to ride with local bus riders. I'm through arguing about your thoughts about local riders vs. express bus riders, but if a person is willing to pay $5.50, they are probably of the same means as express bus riders.

 

And as far as riding within Staten Island, that might work if your trip starts at a major transfer point (like Fingerboard Road), but if your trip starts on, say North Gannon Avenue, the driver can refuse to let you on (this is outbound only. Manhattan-bound, it is easier, since the driver has to let you on)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The X19 only involved express bus riders. I wouldn't have the buses go to Charleston for the sole purpose of picking up passengers. Either the intraborough travel would affect all express buses or none of them.

 

And not all Downtown routes are meant to be short. Just look at the X15, as well as the X4 (though to a lesser extent, since the X1, X3, and X7 provide service to Lower Manhattan)

 

And tourists aren't going out to the middle of Staten Island to ride the transit system out here, so they're not going to be holding up the buses.

 

And why exactly don't you want to ride with local bus riders. I'm through arguing about your thoughts about local riders vs. express bus riders, but if a person is willing to pay $5.50, they are probably of the same means as express bus riders.

 

The Downtown buses are still short runs overall, even the loops like the X15.

 

With regards to local bus riders, I see no reason why I should sacrifice my service for them. The frequencies that we have on the express bus are thanks to us express bus riders using them. If they don't have enough frequencies to meet their needs, then that's their problem, not ours, and I see no need for me to pay a premium fare to have to give up more travel time. My commute is long enough and I pay enough a month to not have to "share" my services with the local bus riders. I already subsidize their transportation as it is through the taxes that are drained out of my paycheck. Enough is enough with the giving to the less fortunate already.

 

When it comes time for service cuts, its the express bus riders that are expected to give up their service to the local bus riders because "we have other options" and then on top of that we've got to share our service w/them because they don't have as much demand for the frequencies that we get. The whole idea is ludicrous! LOL

[checkmatechamp13]

Are you referring to the Manhattan portion or the Staten Island portion? Because the X15 makes a lot of stops in Staten Island.

 

And as far as "sacrificing" the service goes, they're paying the $5.50 fare, so what is the problem?

 

And as far as having local buses vs. express buses go, the MTA only cut the service for routes that truly did have alternatives. The S79 is an "alternative" to the X1, and the last time I checked, the X1 is still around.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Are you referring to the Manhattan portion or the Staten Island portion? Because the X15 makes a lot of stops in Staten Island.

 

And as far as "sacrificing" the service goes, they're paying the $5.50 fare, so what is the problem?

 

And as far as having local buses vs. express buses go, the MTA only cut the service for routes that truly did have alternatives. The S79 is an "alternative" to the X1, and the last time I checked, the X1 is still around.

 

I'm talking in general. Just because it is shown to have a lot of stops doesn't mean it makes all of those stops.

 

The problem is this... If we're going to let every Tom, D i c k and Harry get on at any old stop, then it no longer functions as an express bus. It's just any old local bus that makes a thousand stops with reclining seats and AC control where folks pay the premium fare for very slow service.

 

I doubt you would be proposing to have commuter trains make local stops that local subway trains would make. It is the same exact thing with the express bus, the key word being EXPRESS.

 

And you're wrong about the only cutting routes w/alternatives because some areas were left w/nothing or require several transfers.

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm talking in general. Just because it is shown to have a lot of stops doesn't mean it makes all of those stops.

 

The problem is this... If we're going to let every Tom **** and Harry get on at any old stop, then it no longer functions as an express bus. It's just any old local bus that makes a thousand stops with reclining seats and AC control where folks pay the premium fare for very slow service.

 

I doubt you would be proposing to have commuter trains make local stops that local subway trains would make. It is the same exact thing with the express bus, the key word being EXPRESS.

 

At a bus stop, the infrastructure is already there: All you need is a pole in the ground with the bus number on it. To make a commuter rail function as a subway, you'd need to spend a lot more money building additional stations.

 

And during the PM rush, I'm sure most express buses make every stop anyway, so your not really losing that much time (and by the way, the "express" section is the section where it spends several miles on the expressways, not the section where it runs on the regular streets, where it basically makes the same stops as the local buses (or at best, the limited-stop buses)).

 

But I guess since it would be complicated to implement, I guess it can't be done, so you win.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

At a bus stop, the infrastructure is already there: All you need is a pole in the ground with the bus number on it. To make a commuter rail function as a subway, you'd need to spend a lot more money building additional stations.

 

And during the PM rush, I'm sure most express buses make every stop anyway, so your not really losing that much time (and by the way, the "express" section is the section where it spends several miles on the expressways, not the section where it runs on the regular streets, where it basically makes the same stops as the local buses (or at best, the limited-stop buses)).

 

But I guess since it would be complicated to implement, I guess it can't be done, so you win.

 

 

Actually that's not correct. Express buses do not make the same amount of stops as local buses. They are meant to function like subways if anything hence the whole idea of DROP OFF ONLY. The idea is if you have people constantly boarding and getting off and on the bus will be slowed dramatically. Also if you notice, there is no back door on express buses because they're not meant to have people getting on and off. They are viewed as commuter buses, hence why we have the MCIs and not buses for local or limited stop service.

 

Ideally the point of the express bus is to get passengers on and off of the bus as quickly as possible and not have it lingering for long periods of time at each stop. If you take away the DROP OFF ONLY rule, you'll be destroying the very way in which the express bus functions. If you notice, in the city, most express buses make what would be local subway stops and the Super Express Buses bypass large segments of areas like an express train would. One it reaches the DROP OFF ONLY segment, you also notice that the drivers usually don't keep the "schedule" because again, the idea and understanding is that people are to be moved as quickly as possible, so it is certainly for more than a limited stop bus.

[checkmatechamp13]

Makes sense.

 

The idea was to solve the problem of express buses having no turnover, but I guess at $5.50, not many people would be willing to ride them anyway for intraborough trips.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Makes sense.

 

The idea was to solve the problem of express buses having no turnover, but I guess at $5.50, not many people would be willing to ride them anyway for intraborough trips.

 

 

I think that's the big problem that folks don't understand about the express buses. Of course they are not subways and will not move the same amount of people as subways do, but they are structured to function like subways in terms of how quickly they get you from point A to point B. The only thing that can hinder the quickness w/which they arrive from point A to point B is traffic and detours, but other than that they can be just as fast as the subway if not faster. For example, if you notice it takes about 15-20 minutes to get from 14th St. on the X10 to the last stop before the Battery Tunnel, which is about the same amount of time that the or train takes to get to Bowling Green from Union Square. Now compare that to a limited stop bus and I'm willing to bet that it would take longer for a limited stop bus to reach that destination for a number of reasons. More people boarding and exiting and probably it would have to make more stops than an express bus. I can't use the (M5) as a comparison since it runs local after a certain point Downtown.

[checkmatechamp13]

I think that's the big problem that folks don't understand about the express buses. Of course they are not subways and will not move the same amount of people as subways do, but they are structured to function like subways in terms of how quickly they get you from point A to point B. The only thing that can hinder the quickness w/which they arrive from point A to point B is traffic and detours, but other than that they can be just as fast as the subway if not faster. For example, if you notice it takes about 15-20 minutes to get from 14th St. on the X10 to the last stop before the Battery Tunnel, which is about the same amount of time that the or train takes to get to Bowling Green from Union Square. Now compare that to a limited stop bus and I'm willing to bet that it would take longer for a limited stop bus to reach that destination for a number of reasons. More people boarding and exiting and probably it would have to make more stops than an express bus. I can't use the (M5) as a comparison since it runs local after a certain point Downtown.

 

We understand it, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem.

 

And a properly designed limited-stop bus can be faster than an express bus, assuming it has the same number of stops. Limited-stop buses have rear doors, and more space to exit. On an express bus, everybody has to wait to go out through one door and a narrow aisle.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

We understand it, but that doesn't make it any less of a problem.

 

And a properly designed limited-stop bus can be faster than an express bus, assuming it has the same number of stops. Limited-stop buses have rear doors, and more space to exit. On an express bus, everybody has to wait to go out through one door and a narrow aisle.

 

That's inmaterial because express buses are NOT meant to have folks constantly boarding and exiting as limited stop buses are. Of course they have rear doors. That's the whole point. You're comparing a local limited stop service to a more commuter oriented service. Completely different.

 

And yes in theory limited stop service can be faster than an express bus, just like an express bus can be faster than the subway, so what's your point???