When will the MTA finally expand staten island local service? It has so much potential..

[SIR North Shore]

Why is it that it's 2011 and Staten Island still has the almost same service levels from 2004? There's been more cuts than service expansions over the last decade, and it should be a known fact that in order to start the S89 service, they had to drop service elsewhere on the other routes! (1 example: The S44/s94 used to run every 4-5 minutes in the AM before 2007 but since then it's risen to the every 10-12 minutes it is now..)

 

S53/S83 & S63/S93

 

A new S63 should be created running from Mariner's Harbor at Forest Av & South Av to 86th/4th in Brooklyn using Forest Av, Richmond Av, Victory Blvd, Clove Road & the SIE Service Road. The S93 would be the limited for this route running through CSI loop.

 

S53 would no longer be aligned with the S93 and would have it's own S83 limited running from Port Richmond to Brooklyn.

 

S54, S57, S59 to St George Ferry

 

When the new ramps are completed, they're going to be arranged differently and should have more space and thus why these routes should be extended to ferry. They would only really need to run these buses every 30 minutes so why not instead of having them lay over in the middle of nowhere on Richmond Terrace.

 

24/7 X1/X10 Bus Service

 

Why should this be in this list of things that don't exist yet? The subway doesn't stop running at 1am so the X1 and X10 shouldn't either because those are our subway equivalents. The last buses are sometimes SRO, especially over the summer.

 

More buses to New Jersey

 

A bus line or two originating from the ferry (existing or new) and one of the south shore routes should run to New Jersey terminating at a train station (Elizabeth or Perth Amboy) so that there's NJT rail & NJT bus connections. I always thought the S98 would be a good choice for the Elizabeth and S94 or S61 to Perth Amboy. Even if the bus was to run hourly it would be better than it is now which is nothing at all! :tdown:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I have wrote to Michael Grimm regarding a few of these issues like creating the S83 because it could cost very little to implement. I also think that they could get more out of the service they provide by simply shifting buses around. Truth be told I don't think they want to run express bus service anywhere 24/7, but yes it is needed. The X1 could run every 45 minutes to an hour back to Staten Island during the late nights and the X10 could run every hour.

[checkmatechamp13]

Why is it that it's 2011 and Staten Island still has the almost same service levels from 2004? There's been more cuts than service expansions over the last decade, and it should be a known fact that in order to start the S89 service, they had to drop service elsewhere on the other routes! (1 example: The S44/s94 used to run every 4-5 minutes in the AM before 2007 but since then it's risen to the every 10-12 minutes it is now..)

 

S53/S83 & S63/S93

 

A new S63 should be created running from Mariner's Harbor at Forest Av & South Av to 86th/4th in Brooklyn using Forest Av, Richmond Av, Victory Blvd, Clove Road & the SIE Service Road. The S93 would be the limited for this route running through CSI loop.

 

S53 would no longer be aligned with the S93 and would have it's own S83 limited running from Port Richmond to Brooklyn.

 

S54, S57, S59 to St George Ferry

 

When the new ramps are completed, they're going to be arranged differently and should have more space and thus why these routes should be extended to ferry. They would only really need to run these buses every 30 minutes so why not instead of having them lay over in the middle of nowhere on Richmond Terrace.

 

24/7 X1/X10 Bus Service

 

Why should this be in this list of things that don't exist yet? The subway doesn't stop running at 1am so the X1 and X10 shouldn't either because those are our subway equivalents. The last buses are sometimes SRO, especially over the summer.

 

More buses to New Jersey

 

A bus line or two originating from the ferry (existing or new) and one of the south shore routes should run to New Jersey terminating at a train station (Elizabeth or Perth Amboy) so that there's NJT rail & NJT bus connections. I always thought the S98 would be a good choice for the Elizabeth and S94 or S61 to Perth Amboy. Even if the bus was to run hourly it would be better than it is now which is nothing at all! :tdown:

 

There have been cuts because of the budget deficit. Service has been cut all around, not just on Staten Island.

 

In any case, being a regular user of the Richmond Avenue routes, I can say that the service was too frequent (and I still think it is too frequent, especially in the AM rush. Lately, ridership has been increasing in the northbound direction, but I still think there are way too many school trippers going to the schools near the SI Mall.

 

I've discussed the S93 extension before, and said that it should travel via Richmond Avenue, the SIE service road, and South Avenue, and terminate at either Grandview Avenue/Brabant Street or Holland Avenue/Benjamin Place. However, I see no need for an S63.

 

The S54 I would agree with, either as a straight extension or a combination with the S42. The S59 I would agree with if it involved an S40 split. I'm not sure about how long the S57 spends laying over at Port Richmond, but if it is a significant amount of time, I agree that it would probably help boost ridership.

 

The 24/7 X1 and X10 service makes sense, but at 60 minute headways only.

 

The S98 or S90 going to New Jersey makes sense. The route that makes sense going to Perth Amboy would be the S56 (without the combination with the S44 or S61. You've complained about the reliability of the S44 as is. There is no need to make it longer)

 

Like I said before, the MTA isn't going to implement any expensive changes anytime soon, and a lot of the growth in the system can be handled by existing capacity.

 

By the way, did you guys see this article regarding implementing a fare on the Staten Island Ferry and having buses replace the ferry at night? http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/budget_wonks_urge_city_to_rein.html

 

I would agree with the buses (maybe they could even make a couple of stops in Staten Island, which would benefit people along Bay Street), but I think the ferry fare is a bad idea. If nothing else, you'll cause long lines at the turnstiles, and people who just got off a bus would be fumbling to pay the fare and could miss the ferry because of that.

[SIR North Shore]

That's very good to hear! I hope that is something that is implemented before the year is over.

 

And I'm sure there will be ridership on an overnight X1 or X10. I remember riding, or actually standing on a very late X1 at 2 in the morning last summer. It was a terrible ride but everyone had to get on because it was the last bus!

 

They just need to think outside the box and understand the Staten Island services a bit. It's like, they're so caught up with the busier routes in the other boros that SI get's left behind in away. They try to use that same format that they use in the Bronx, Queens & Brooklyn for Staten Island's local buses but with slightly less frequent headways & it's generally a mess with late and crowded buses. And if a route cannot sustain at least 3,000 a day ridership it's eligible for the axe! But in places with 500,000 population, a route with 2,000 people a day is one of it's more busier lines.

 

The S89 would be more worthwhile if it ran hourly but all day, for example. Instead of having near empty buses running every 15-30 minutes. Or how the S55, S56 would have more ridership if they ran somewhere of interest like New Dorp or College Of Staten Island but only ran every hour instead of running empty every 30 minutes to the SI Mall only.

[SIR North Shore]

There have been cuts because of the budget deficit. Service has been cut all around, not just on Staten Island.

 

In any case, being a regular user of the Richmond Avenue routes, I can say that the service was too frequent (and I still think it is too frequent, especially in the AM rush. Lately, ridership has been increasing in the northbound direction, but I still think there are way too many school trippers going to the schools near the SI Mall.

 

I've discussed the S93 extension before, and said that it should travel via Richmond Avenue, the SIE service road, and South Avenue, and terminate at either Grandview Avenue/Brabant Street or Holland Avenue/Benjamin Place. However, I see no need for an S63.

 

The S54 I would agree with, either as a straight extension or a combination with the S42. The S59 I would agree with if it involved an S40 split. I'm not sure about how long the S57 spends laying over at Port Richmond, but if it is a significant amount of time, I agree that it would probably help boost ridership.

 

The 24/7 X1 and X10 service makes sense, but at 60 minute headways only.

 

The S98 or S90 going to New Jersey makes sense. The route that makes sense going to Perth Amboy would be the S56 (without the combination with the S44 or S61. You've complained about the reliability of the S44 as is. There is no need to make it longer)

 

Like I said before, the MTA isn't going to implement any expensive changes anytime soon, and a lot of the growth in the system can be handled by existing capacity.

 

By the way, did you guys see this article regarding implementing a fare on the Staten Island Ferry and having buses replace the ferry at night? http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/budget_wonks_urge_city_to_rein.html

 

I would agree with the buses (maybe they could even make a couple of stops in Staten Island, which would benefit people along Bay Street), but I think the ferry fare is a bad idea. If nothing else, you'll cause long lines at the turnstiles, and people who just got off a bus would be fumbling to pay the fare and could miss the ferry because of that.

 

You're saying S44/S94 service is too frequent because you live near Richmond Avenue! Of course service is frequent over there, as the trippers only run to Port Richmond and not St. George! Try living closer to ferry and you would be saying the same as me, because the buses get caught up in so much traffic and people getting on and off that it's usually always late by the time it shows up at my stop. The S44 also still shows up in 2s all the time, even though both buses have seats and originally left 15 minutes apart from each other. I guess you just don't experience it because you're already on the bus when you hit West Brighton but the S44 tends to become very late at some point during it's route.

 

Your S93 idea is good though, and the S63 would be there to act as a local service so that you won't have to transfer to travel across the Island. To make the same trip that the S63 makes you would have to take 3 buses. The S93 doesn't need to run all day as it does skip a lot of stops on Victory Blvd and the S63 would be there for those skipped stops.

[checkmatechamp13]

That's very good to hear! I hope that is something that is implemented before the year is over.

 

And I'm sure there will be ridership on an overnight X1 or X10. I remember riding, or actually standing on a very late X1 at 2 in the morning last summer. It was a terrible ride but everyone had to get on because it was the last bus!

 

They just need to think outside the box and understand the Staten Island services a bit. It's like, they're so caught up with the busier routes in the other boros that SI get's left behind in away. They try to use that same format that they use in the Bronx, Queens & Brooklyn for Staten Island's local buses but with slightly less frequent headways & it's generally a mess with late and crowded buses. And if a route cannot sustain at least 3,000 a day ridership it's eligible for the axe! But in places with 500,000 population, a route with 2,000 people a day is one of it's more busier lines.

 

The S89 would be more worthwhile if it ran hourly but all day, for example. Instead of having near empty buses running every 15-30 minutes. Or how the S55, S56 would have more ridership if they ran somewhere of interest like New Dorp or College Of Staten Island but only ran every hour instead of running empty every 30 minutes to the SI Mall only.

 

I hope so too. The buses would probably be faster than the ferry at night, considering the fact that there is no traffic. I'm still opposed to any fare being collected, though (except for maybe on those overnight buses).

 

Actually, in Staten Island, most routes carry around 5,000 riders a day. The S54 carries around 2,100 on an average weekday, and it is definitely not a busy line. A heavy line for Staten Island would be the S46 (8,600) or S48 (9,800).

 

I don't think the S89 should be reduced that much. In the morning rush hour, almost all of the seats are filled by the time it leaves Staten Island, and you have to consider that a good portion of its riders are choice commuters: People who drive to the Eltingville Transit Center who will just drive if the service is too infrequent.

 

Off-peak, ridership down Richmond Avenue isn't that good, so I think it should just operate between Forest Avenue and 34th Street every 40 minutes, to connect with every other HBLR train (hopefully, they'll try to save some money by cutting it back to 8th Street)

 

I don't think there is much that can be done about the S55 and S56: The people on the South Shore just don't ride the buses down there. You could attract some riders with more frequent service, but the cost per passenger would probably be the same or higher.

 

That is the problem: The South Shore is so car-oriented that ridership naturally isn't going to sustain any frequent bus service, aside from children going to school The only route that has a lot of non-student ridership in that area is the S74, which goes to St. George. That is what I figured: Unless a route takes a reasonably direct route to St. George (meaning a combination with the S61 wouldn't help those routes), it isn't going to get high ridership.

 

The only thing that might boost ridership a little would be if all buses that serve the SI Mall were shifted run along Marsh Avenue instead of Ring Road. Currently, riders going to the Eltingville Transit Center walk over to Ring Road because the S59/S79 are much more frequent than the S55/S56. If the S44, S59, and S79 ran along Marsh Avenue, people would go there and take whichever bus comes first, rather than abandon the S55/S56.

 

This would also work for the S89: Northbound in the PM rush hour, riders all wait along Ring Road for the S44 and S59, leaving the S89 with very few passengers.

 

Here is a recent trip that I took on the last northbound S89 (which I only made because I timed myself for that bus):

I got on at Marsh Avenue/Windham Loop. There were 2 people on the bus, and 1 person got off before I got on. (So now there are 3 people)

At the Marsh Avenue/Westport Street, another woman got on. (4 people are on now)

At Richmond Avenue/Richmond Hill Road, one person gets off and another one gets on (still 4 people)

We bypass Rockland Avenue, and 6 people get on at Victory Blvd (10 people on now)

At Merrill Avenue, I get off and another person get on (still 10 people)

 

If the S44 and S59 were routed to Marsh Avenue, we could've probably picked up another 10-15 people over there.

 

Part of the problem is that the Ring Road side is more well-known because the buses stop there, so I'll often see people waiting at Forest Avenue turn down an S89 because it goes to "the back of the mall". If the MTA said that it is basically the same distance from the bus stop to the entrance to the mall, I'm sure it could get some additional S89 riders.

[checkmatechamp13]

You're saying S44/S94 service is too frequent because you live near Richmond Avenue! Of course service is frequent over there, as the trippers only run to Port Richmond and not St. George! Try living closer to ferry and you would be saying the same as me, because the buses get caught up in so much traffic and people getting on and off that it's usually always late by the time it shows up at my stop. The S44 also still shows up in 2s all the time, even though both buses have seats and originally left 15 minutes apart from each other. I guess you just don't experience it because you're already on the bus when you hit West Brighton but the S44 tends to become very late at some point during it's route.

 

Your S93 idea is good though, and the S63 would be there to act as a local service so that you won't have to transfer to travel across the Island. To make the same trip that the S63 makes you would have to take 3 buses. The S93 doesn't need to run all day as it does skip a lot of stops on Victory Blvd and the S63 would be there for those skipped stops.

 

The trippers run southbound only. Northbound, I think there is excess service (when you consider the S59 and S89) along Richmond Avenue, even though there are no trippers.

 

I think that some southbound trippers could be eliminated if buses were rerouted to Marsh Avenue, as I said below (they would also better serve the people who live along Marsh Avenue). Northbound, I think some extra S44s could start at Jewett Avenue/Post Avenue, and whatever buses start from Yukon Avenue could act as S94s. This would also probably help with the bunching of buses in that area.

 

I don't think the S63 is a good idea: Not a whole lot of people get on at those local stops, so you would be delaying riders going to Brooklyn. The limited stops are reasonably spaced, so walking to the S93 stops isn't going to be that hard.

[SIR North Shore]

I remember the days from when you had to buy the .50 cent token, they had turnstiles and everything. What I didn't expect was for the ferry to stay free for forever! These days it's like a free tourist boat instead of a commuter ferry and all those tourist do is slow things down. And it's only .50 cents! Whoever doesn't have 50 cents won't be riding the ferry! People can pay $200 a month for a iphone but not 50 cents to ride the ferry but I'm sure they'll still find a way to make sure there's some discount for Staten Islanders to make it only a quarter LOL!:cool:

 

I think the bus replacing the ferry overnight is the best idea they've come up with in awhile. There's never any traffic on the expressway at that time of night, so it would be a win-win for anyone who takes the ferry as they would end up deeper in Staten Island closer to everything and those who want St. George would stay on until the end.

[checkmatechamp13]

Like I said, my issue isn't with the fare itself: It is with the hassle of payment. If a couple of buses come in back-to-back, you could have congestion at the turnstile (especially if there are people who don't have the payment ready beforehand), which could cause some people to miss their ferry.

 

The bus replacement makes perfect sense: If the bus can travel 40 MPH along the expressways, and 20MPH along the local streets, it could get to St. George in about 20 minutes. With a couple of stops along Bay Street, it could benefit people living in Rosebank, Clifton and Stapleton.

 

According to the article, "bustituting" overnight service would save about $3.7 million per year, but if the politicians fight, they can probably get them to use that $3.7 million to incrrase the headways of those buses from 60 minutes to 30 minutes, which would be even better.

[SIR North Shore]

They used to sell packs of tokens, so congestion at the token booth wasn't really a huge problem for most commuters as they already had ferry tokens at home. And I'm sure these days they would come up with some kind of smart card that would work with the subways & buses. There's a smart card in development that's supposedly going to be able to work with everything pretty much. Groceries, staten island ferry, PATH, NJT, MTA, etc..

[checkmatechamp13]

In a few years, when they implement the SmartCard, maybe they can make it so that it costs the regular $2.25 fare (or whatever the fare will be in a few years), but if you are transferring, it won't use your transfer.

 

That would probably ensure that vistors and tourists are the ones bringing in the most revenue, rather than commuters.

 

That would end up being a 4-legged transfer: subway/bus->ferry->SIR->bus

[Via Garibaldi 8]

First, put the fare back on the ferry. SI residents could show their ID and still ride for free, but those f*cking tourists should be the ones paying. They get to see the Statue of Liberty, the Manhattan skyline and all of the other sights for free, which is bullsh*t! Those cheap f*ckers should pay to ride. They hold up the boats taking their sweet @ss time getting off so let them pay to do so.

 

And yeah, you could get rid of the boats at night and run buses. Would be a lot cheaper AND quicker. The only question is where would these buses go??

[checkmatechamp13]

What do you mean? Do you mean the route the buses would use?

 

They would probably take the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, take I-278 to Bay Street, and then go to St. George from there (possibly with stops along the way). It seems like the most direct way.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What do you mean? Do you mean the route the buses would use?

 

They would probably take the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, take I-278 to Bay Street, and then go to St. George from there (possibly with stops along the way). It seems like the most direct way.

 

I'm trying to understand how you would move people to the various bus lines that they use and if the bus has to go all the way to St. George it may not be worth it.

[JAzumah]

There's been more cuts than service expansions over the last decade, and it should be a known fact that in order to start the S89 service, they had to drop service elsewhere on the other routes! (1 example: The S44/s94 used to run every 4-5 minutes in the AM before 2007 but since then it's risen to the every 10-12 minutes it is now..)

 

B)

 

It's a shame.

[JAzumah]

What do you mean? Do you mean the route the buses would use?

 

They would probably take the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, take I-278 to Bay Street, and then go to St. George from there (possibly with stops along the way). It seems like the most direct way.

 

No stops if you want to keep the same timings. Considering I've done lower Manhattan to Richmond Hill Road in 30 minutes on a motivated X17 many years ago (Saturday afternoon), 25 minutes to St. George is doable.

[Amtrak7]

Local service south of Richmond Av is virtually nonexistant, except for the S74/S78. The problem with implementing new routes there is that the existing ones (S55, etc) have the lowest ridership and highest operating costs in the system. What can they do? Making express buses carry local passengers may be one solution...

 

As for the SI Ferry, it should be designed such that passengers coming from the SIR/bus terminal/Whitehall St get a free ride, while others have to present a bus transfer or SBS receipt, or swipe their MetroCard. Double transfers on M15/M20/M5 until Smartcards are used.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Local service south of Richmond Av is virtually nonexistant, except for the S74/S78. The problem with implementing new routes there is that the existing ones (S55, etc) have the lowest ridership and highest operating costs in the system. What can they do? Making express buses carry local passengers may be one solution...

 

As for the SI Ferry, it should be designed such that passengers coming from the SIR/bus terminal/Whitehall St get a free ride, while others have to present a bus transfer or SBS receipt, or swipe their MetroCard. Double transfers on M15/M20/M5 until Smartcards are used.

 

Express bus riders like myself would throw a fit, plain and simple. Express buses are for express bus riders. Local bus riders get their own buses. The only way they should be allowed to ride w/us is if they're paying the premium fare. Besides, that would never work anyway because express buses are drop off only when coming from Staten Island except for express bus transfer points (i.e. at Fingerboard & Hylan Blvd).

 

The main reason why no one uses service on the South Shore isn't just because they're so car centric. The service is simply unreliable and this is true also on the North Shore. I think folks can live with the frequencies if the buses aren't that crowded on lines like the (S54), but have the damn buses show up when they're scheduled!! I mean if you're going to a run a bus every 30 minutes fine. I can plan my trip based on that, but then they go MIA. It is extremely frustrating and that's why folks tend to avoid transportation in general on Staten Island. I want to see more frequencies, but if they don't provide the damn buses, then the frequencies won't matter if the buses don't show up.

 

The will NEVER be able to grow ridership substantially on certain lines because they're not reliable enough. Why should I wait an hour for an (S54) for a 5 minute ride when I can hop in car service?? And yes the frequencies are usually every 30 minutes, but when they don't show up you can wait there for an hour or more, esp. going towards Forest Ave.

 

 

In sum in some cases, it isn't a question of more frequencies needed, but that the buses stop going MIA and then it's like when a bus does come it's as if nothing happened, like it's supposed to be normal for buses not to show up. I can rememeber when it was a big deal for a bus to come late, let along go MIA. Now it has become the norm on Staten Island and we're supposed to just accept it because we're in the suburbs.

[qjtransitmaster]

Local service south of Richmond Av is virtually nonexistant, except for the S74/S78. The problem with implementing new routes there is that the existing ones (S55, etc) have the lowest ridership and highest operating costs in the system. What can they do? Making express buses carry local passengers may be one solution...

 

As for the SI Ferry, it should be designed such that passengers coming from the SIR/bus terminal/Whitehall St get a free ride, while others have to present a bus transfer or SBS receipt, or swipe their MetroCard. Double transfers on M15/M20/M5 until Smartcards are used.

 

I suggested this with my express proposal!!!

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm trying to understand how you would move people to the various bus lines that they use and if the bus has to go all the way to St. George it may not be worth it.

 

Lower Manhattan-St. George can be done in about 20 minutes if there is no traffic and no stops (the $3.7 million savings would be if the buses ran to St. George).

 

Maybe the savings could be reinvested into providing one route going south (say, to the Grasmere SIR station, with stops at Father Capodanno Blvd and Hylan Blvd), and one route going to St. George via Bay Street.

 

No stops if you want to keep the same timings. Considering I've done lower Manhattan to Richmond Hill Road in 30 minutes on a motivated X17 many years ago (Saturday afternoon), 25 minutes to St. George is doable.

 

Alright.

 

Express bus riders like myself would throw a fit, plain and simple. Express buses are for express bus riders. Local bus riders get their own buses. The only way they should be allowed to ride w/us is if they're paying the premium fare. Besides, that would never work anyway because express buses are drop off only when coming from Staten Island except for express bus transfer points (i.e. at Fingerboard & Hylan Blvd).

 

The main reason why no one uses service on the South Shore isn't just because they're so car centric. The service is simply unreliable and this is true also on the North Shore. I think folks can live with the frequencies if the buses aren't that crowded on lines like the (S54), but have the damn buses show up when they're scheduled!! I mean if you're going to a run a bus every 30 minutes fine. I can plan my trip based on that, but then they go MIA. It is extremely frustrating and that's why folks tend to avoid transportation in general on Staten Island. I want to see more frequencies, but if they don't provide the damn buses, then the frequencies won't matter if the buses don't show up.

 

The will NEVER be able to grow ridership substantially on certain lines because they're not reliable enough. Why should I wait an hour for an (S54) for a 5 minute ride when I can hop in car service?? And yes the frequencies are usually every 30 minutes, but when they don't show up you can wait there for an hour or more, esp. going towards Forest Ave.

 

 

In sum in some cases, it isn't a question of more frequencies needed, but that the buses stop going MIA and then it's like when a bus does come it's as if nothing happened, like it's supposed to be normal for buses not to show up. I can rememeber when it was a big deal for a bus to come late, let along go MIA. Now it has become the norm on Staten Island and we're supposed to just accept it because we're in the suburbs.

 

But that is the thing: The local buses run infrequently, and getting them to use the express buses could be the only way to get them to use transit.

 

Maybe, as a compromise, the MTA could charge a $3.50 fare for travel within a borough using the express bus. The B/O could press a button that changes the fare from $5.50 to $3.50 once they reach the outer boroughs. (This could apply outbound only, to avoid the risk of somebody getting on in Staten Island, and paying the $3.50 fare to reach Manhattan)

 

As far as why ridership is so low on the South Shore, it is mainly because they are car-centric. When the DOE wanted to eliminate school bus service and give the children Student MetroCards, you heard all sort of complaints like "The bus goes through a jail", and "there's no sidewalk".

 

Basically, nobody with access to a car is going to pay $2.25 for a bus ride, regardless of how frequently it runs (unless parking is expensive and/or hard to find at their destination, which is why the routes to St. George and Bay Ridge are the better-performing routes).

 

Also, it is hard to plan your life around a bus running every 30 minutes. When I use public transportation to reach the supermarket, I don't look at a schedule. And on the way back, I don't want to spend my shopping trip worrying about the frequency of the bus, and the thought of waiting 30 minutes if I miss it.

 

The fact that the South Shore was designed to be car-centric (larger houses, places with no sidewalks, destinations spread out, etc) means that ridership (and frequencies) are always going to be low (unless, of course, they change the car-centric nature)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Lower Manhattan-St. George can be done in about 20 minutes if there is no traffic and no stops (the $3.7 million savings would be if the buses ran to St. George).

 

Maybe the savings could be reinvested into providing one route going south (say, to the Grasmere SIR station, with stops at Father Capodanno Blvd and Hylan Blvd), and one route going to St. George via Bay Street.

 

 

 

Alright.

 

Yes, I know, as I often benefit from this set up. I took the X15 in this morning and it was about 18 minutes to Rector St. The thing is though, wouldn't you as a passenger find it stupid to go by the Verrazano esp if you lived near there just to bypass it to go to the ferry to take the local bus right back there??? If they were to implement something like this I would think that some sort of arrangement regarding buses would have to be made.

[checkmatechamp13]

I agree. Maybe they could try to line the schedules up, so that a "ferry bus" arrives at Bay Street/School Road, and then an S51 traveling towards St. George arrives shortly thereafter.

 

The same could work for the South Shore bus: They try to time it so that it meets with the S51, S78, and SIR (though I think it would be hard to meet with all 3) going southbound.

 

Or maybe the ferry bus could replace one of those routes in the South Shore. The S78 could be cut back to run from Grasmere-St. George, and the ferry bus could cover the S78 route all the way to Tottenville.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But that is the thing: The local buses run infrequently, and getting them to use the express buses could be the only way to get them to use transit.

 

Maybe, as a compromise, the MTA could charge a $3.50 fare for travel within a borough using the express bus. The B/O could press a button that changes the fare from $5.50 to $3.50 once they reach the outer boroughs. (This could apply outbound only, to avoid the risk of somebody getting on in Staten Island, and paying the $3.50 fare to reach Manhattan)

 

As far as why ridership is so low on the South Shore, it is mainly because they are car-centric. When the DOE wanted to eliminate school bus service and give the children Student MetroCards, you heard all sort of complaints like "The bus goes through a jail", and "there's no sidewalk".

 

That whole express bus idea would never work. There's a reason why express buses do "DROP OFF ONLY" because they're not meant to have folks boarding and getting off constantly, which slows down the commute. I'm not paying the premium fare to "help" some local bus rider get to their destination faster while they're paying less than I am, nor do I want the express bus to turn into a LTD stop bus. :mad: :tdown: Like I said they have their own buses. Aside from that, if local bus riders wanted to pay more they'd just use the express bus. They already complain that $2.25 is too much, so why would they want to pay even more and why should they when there are LTD routes that charge $2.25??? B)

 

As far as the South Shore goes, their complaints are all legitimate ones. The has many bus stops across the island where there is no real sidewalk to wait for the bus at, so you run the risk of being hit by a car. This is something that the should and needs to address ASAP. As it is now, even on the North Shore most of the sidewalks are very narrow and the cars are right on top of you. That's why I hate waiting at certain stops for the express bus because there is very little room to stand safely away from the cars that fly down the street, esp. along the service road. The sidewalks need to be widened at many stops.

[checkmatechamp13]

That whole express bus idea would never work. There's a reason why express buses do "DROP OFF ONLY" because they're not meant to have folks boarding and getting on constantly which slows down the commute. I'm not paying the premium fare to "help" some local bus rider get to their destination faster while they're paying less than I am, nor do I want the express bus to turn into a LTD stop bus. :mad: :tdown: Like I said they have their own buses. Aside from that, if local bus riders wanted to pay more they'd just use the express bus. They already complain that $2.25 is too much, so why would they want to pay even more and why should they when there are LTD routes that charge $2.25??? B)

 

As far as the South Shore goes, their complaints are all legitimate ones. The has many bus stops across the island where there is no real sidewalk to wait for the bus at, so you run the risk of being hit by a car. This is something that the should and needs to address ASAP. As it is now, even on the North Shore most of the sidewalks are very narrow and the cars are right on top of you. That's why I hate waiting at certain stops for the express bus because there is very little room to stand safely away from the cars that fly down the street, esp. along the service road. The sidewalks need to be widened at many stops.

 

I doubt those riders who complain that $2.25 is too much are going to be the ones riding the express buses, even if the fare was $3.50.

 

And there are some areas where there is no local bus (see the X17 in Huguenot), or the express bus is much more frequent than the local bus (like the X22 along Bloomingdale Road and Amboy Road)

 

And the riders are paying less because they're riding for a much shorter distance then you are. You're riding all the way from Manhattan, whereas they're riding for a couple of miles.

 

And I agree that the DOT (It is them, not the MTA that is in charge of bus stops) should try to make an effort to put a sidewalk at the bus stop (like they did by South Avenue/Lisk Avenue). The problem is that some areas have no sidewalks walking to the bus stop, and that is something the residents were well aware of when they moved to the area.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I doubt those riders who complain that $2.25 is too much are going to be the ones riding the express buses, even if the fare was $3.50.

 

And there are some areas where there is no local bus (see the X17 in Huguenot), or the express bus is much more frequent than the local bus (like the X22 along Bloomingdale Road and Amboy Road)

 

And the riders are paying less because they're riding for a much shorter distance then you are. You're riding all the way from Manhattan, whereas they're riding for a couple of miles.

 

And I agree that the DOT (It is them, not the MTA that is in charge of bus stops) should try to make an effort to put a sidewalk at the bus stop (like they did by South Avenue/Lisk Avenue). The problem is that some areas have no sidewalks walking to the bus stop, and that is something the residents were well aware of when they moved to the area.

 

Exactly, and so that's why they drive and wanted to keep the school bus. They knew this when they moved there, BUT the point is they found a solution for it, which was to drive and their kids would be bussed to school. They are not ones at fault for moving there, which is what you seem to be suggesting, esp. seeing that they had solutions for the problems.

 

Now I know that the DOT is responsible for the bus stops, but isn't it the that decides where the actual bus stops will be located ??? That's why I fault them because they're part of the problem also. :mad:

 

I doubt those riders who complain that $2.25 is too much are going to be the ones riding the express buses, even if the fare was $3.50.

 

And there are some areas where there is no local bus (see the X17 in Huguenot), or the express bus is much more frequent than the local bus (like the X22 along Bloomingdale Road and Amboy Road)

 

And the riders are paying less because they're riding for a much shorter distance then you are. You're riding all the way from Manhattan, whereas they're riding for a couple of miles.

 

And I agree that the DOT (It is them, not the MTA that is in charge of bus stops) should try to make an effort to put a sidewalk at the bus stop (like they did by South Avenue/Lisk Avenue). The problem is that some areas have no sidewalks walking to the bus stop, and that is something the residents were well aware of when they moved to the area.

 

Okay, so then if they're not the ones using it then who is supposed to be using it?? I mean these are the local bus riders that we're talking about and like I said if they're willing to pay more then they can just pay the full amount like the rest of us if they want express service. What you're implying is a zoned fare, which is fine, BUT like I said, express buses are for express bus riders, NOT local riders. They have a service and they should be b*tching to their representatives to have it fixed, not looking to inconvenience express bus riders who have long enough commutes as it is. :mad:

 

Your idea would help a few local bus riders, if at all assuming they're even willing to pay more while completely inconveniencing MANY express bus riders, which could jeopardize the entire express bus line, leading us back to square one. Local and expres bus service with a lack of service. B)

 

There's more express bus service and that's because folks are using them and therefore they have more service.