Jump to content

When will the MTA finally expand staten island local service? It has so much potential..


SIR North Shore

Recommended Posts

Express bus riders like myself would throw a fit, plain and simple. Express buses are for express bus riders. Local bus riders get their own buses. The only way they should be allowed to ride w/us is if they're paying the premium fare.

 

This is how all Staten Islanders get gangbanged all the time. This war between express and local riders have cost both dearly. If the local system was more robust, the park & rides would not be under so much pressure and people wouldn't get their tires slashed going to work. The local riders may be losing now, but if it hits the fan, they will win.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


This is how all Staten Islanders get gangbanged all the time. This war between express and local riders have cost both dearly. If the local system was more robust, the park & rides would not be under so much pressure and people wouldn't get their tires slashed going to work. The local riders may be losing now, but if it hits the fan, they will win.

 

Its us express bus riders who elect the politicians here on Staten Island and our voice is far louder than any of those little local bus riders and believe me the politicians know this. If you notice when Vito Fossella spoke of improved bus service he never mentioned anything about local service, and his battle with the (MTA) was to improve EXPRESS BUS service, esp. for the South Shore and mind you he lives in Great Kills, where there is a lack of local bus service. Unless Staten Island suddenly becomes a Democratic borough (LOL), I don't see things changing. It's a conservative place and around here the majority of us like Republicans and our express buses. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I wouldn't want express buses making unnecessary stops in Staten Island either.

 

Via, you make have to speak for yourself a bit though because the part of Staten Island I'm from relies heavily on the local/limited buses and that includes the middle and upper class as well. It's just different means of transportation, and not some kind of socioeconomic scale! If the North Shore had more express bus lines, they would be used as well. The X16 was unfairly eliminated last June because whenever I rode it, it was SRO but the MTA seen otherwise and the X16 was eliminated and added more S48/S98 service instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly, and so that's why they drive and wanted to keep the school bus. They knew this when they moved there, BUT the point is they found a solution for it, which was to drive and their kids would be bussed to school. They are not ones at fault for moving there, which is what you seem to be suggesting, esp. seeing that they had solutions for the problems.

 

Now I know that the DOT is responsible for the bus stops, but isn't it the (MTA) that decides where the actual bus stops will be located ??? That's why I fault them because they're part of the problem also. :mad:

 

 

 

Okay, so then if they're not the ones using it then who is supposed to be using it?? I mean these are the local bus riders that we're talking about and like I said if they're willing to pay more then they can just pay the full amount like the rest of us if they want express service. What you're implying is a zoned fare, which is fine, BUT like I said, express buses are for express bus riders, NOT local riders. They have a service and they should be b*tching to their representatives to have it fixed, not looking to inconvenience express bus riders who have long enough commutes as it is. :mad:

 

Your idea would help a few local bus riders, if at all assuming they're even willing to pay more while completely inconveniencing MANY express bus riders, which could jeopardize the entire express bus line, leading us back to square one. Local and expres bus service with a lack of service. :(

 

There's more express bus service and that's because folks are using them and therefore they have more service.

 

I don't know who decides where the bus stops will be, but they probably picked the best spot in the area to put the stop in. I highly doubt they put the stop in the middle of the forest when there is a sidewalk a block away.

 

As far as it being their fault for moving there, yes it is. Staten Island received a waiver to receive school bus service, whereas most students in NYC have to take public transportation. They could've moved to a more walkable area in case that waiver was taken away, but they chose not to. There are houses here on the North Shore that are just as safe as the South Shore (and the prices are lower here too), but they chose to move further south.

 

My brother lost the school bus service last year, and he was able to take public transportation to school, because we took into consideration walkability when we moved here.

 

By the way, I noticed that most of the parents complaining were driving their kids to school, meaning their child wouldn't have to take the regular bus anyway. In the meantime, people on the North Shore (like my friend's brother, who had to take 2 buses to get from Mariners' Harbor to New Springville) weren't complaining at all.

 

Its us express bus riders who elect the politicians here on Staten Island and our voice is far louder than any of those little local bus riders and believe me the politicians know this. If you notice when Vito Fossella spoke of improved bus service he never mentioned anything about local service, and his battle with the (MTA) was to improve EXPRESS BUS service, esp. for the South Shore and mind you he lives in Great Kills, where there is a lack of local bus service. Unless Staten Island suddenly becomes a Democratic borough (LOL), I don't see things changing. It's a conservative place and around here the majority of us like Republicans and our express buses. ;)

 

At the public hearing, most of the politicians were there to walk about all services, though I agree that, if it came down to local service vs. express service, the South Shore politicians would've kept express service in a heartbeat (though the only local line being eliminated was the S54 on weekends)

 

On the North Shore, you saw more politicians fighting for local service (though they still mentioned express service).

 

Yeah, I wouldn't want express buses making unnecessary stops in Staten Island either.

 

Via, you make have to speak for yourself a bit though because the part of Staten Island I'm from relies heavily on the local/limited buses and that includes the middle and upper class as well. It's just different means of transportation, and not some kind of socioeconomic scale! If the North Shore had more express bus lines, they would be used as well. The X16 was unfairly eliminated last June because whenever I rode it, it was SRO but the MTA seen otherwise and the X16 was eliminated and added more S48/S98 service instead.

 

I don't even think they added any S48/S98 service.

 

In any case, most of the express buses that would be picking up intra-SI passengers would probably be on the South Shore. Very few people would take, say the X30 to travel across Forest Avenue when the S48 is cheaper (unless the fare was the exact same fare as the local fare)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I wouldn't want express buses making unnecessary stops in Staten Island either.

 

Via, you make have to speak for yourself a bit though because the part of Staten Island I'm from relies heavily on the local/limited buses and that includes the middle and upper class as well. It's just different means of transportation, and not some kind of socioeconomic scale! If the North Shore had more express bus lines, they would be used as well. The X16 was unfairly eliminated last June because whenever I rode it, it was SRO but the MTA seen otherwise and the X16 was eliminated and added more S48/S98 service instead.

 

I just have to tell it like it is. Yes, the North Shore relies more on local bus service but it is also poorer generally speaking than the South Shore, esp. since most of the housing projects are on the North Shore. South Shore folks would esp. go crazy as many of them ride the express bus solely because they have the financial means to do so. They refuse to ride the subway even in the city even when the traffic is a complete mess. I've been on X1s that have been crawling down 6th Ave and have just gotten off in disgust and jumped on the subway and they all just sit there refusing to get off.

 

The X16 was targeted by the (MTA) to be axed and that's why we don't have it. HOWEVER, if the (MTA) really wanted to put us on par with the South Shore, all they would have to do was to make sure that they ran the express buses in or by our affluent parts of the North Shore (Castleton Corners, Todt Hill, Emerson Hill, Grymes Hill, parts of West Brighton, Randall Manor, etc.) and it would do just fine. Obviously you're not going to get large crowds of project folks using the express bus because logic would tell you that they don't have desposable income to do that.

 

I don't know who decides where the bus stops will be, but they probably picked the best spot in the area to put the stop in. I highly doubt they put the stop in the middle of the forest when there is a sidewalk a block away.

 

As far as it being their fault for moving there, yes it is. Staten Island received a waiver to receive school bus service, whereas most students in NYC have to take public transportation. They could've moved to a more walkable area in case that waiver was taken away, but they chose not to. There are houses here on the North Shore that are just as safe as the South Shore (and the prices are lower here too), but they chose to move further south.

 

My brother lost the school bus service last year, and he was able to take public transportation to school, because we took into consideration walkability when we moved here.

 

By the way, I noticed that most of the parents complaining were driving their kids to school, meaning their child wouldn't have to take the regular bus anyway. In the meantime, people on the North Shore (like my friend's brother, who had to take 2 buses to get from Mariners' Harbor to New Springville) weren't complaining at all.

 

 

 

At the public hearing, most of the politicians were there to walk about all services, though I agree that, if it came down to local service vs. express service, the South Shore politicians would've kept express service in a heartbeat (though the only local line being eliminated was the S54 on weekends)

 

On the North Shore, you saw more politicians fighting for local service (though they still mentioned express service).

 

 

 

I don't even think they added any S48/S98 service.

 

In any case, most of the express buses that would be picking up intra-SI passengers would probably be on the South Shore. Very few people would take, say the X30 to travel across Forest Avenue when the S48 is cheaper (unless the fare was the exact same fare as the local fare)

 

It's not their fault. The city was providing those buses because they knew damn well how the South Shore was set up and if they didn't want to provide the service, then they should've saw to it that sidewalks were put into place accordingly. Now on the other hand, South Shore folks quite frankly don't want to mingle with the local bus folks and they just use that sidewalk stuff as an excuse to keep that school bus. LOL

 

They're just not tough enough to deal with the local buses (prima donna types) and they want to be sheltered around in cars or school buses. Me on the other hand I just don't care for riding the local bus on Staten Island. Many of the folks just look seedy looking and destitute, as opposed to some of the more upscale folks you see riding the local buses on Madison Avenue for example, not to mention that the local buses out of Castleton smell like sh*t, hence why I usually elect for car service unless car service takes too long.

 

And yes, on the North Shore, you'll hear politicians fighting for both local and express buses, but when you combine the attitudes of South Shore politicians, the express bus comes out a winner everytime. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think that is completely necessary. A good portion of the express bus riders have cars. And areas like Todt Hill, Emerson Hill, and Grymes Hill don't have enough people living there to support an express bus. You're better off just letting them continue to drive to the nearest express bus line.

 

And Castleton Corners has plenty of express bus service: They have both the X12/X42 and X10/X11, as well as the X14 if they are further north.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think that is completely necessary. A good portion of the express bus riders have cars. And areas like Todt Hill, Emerson Hill, and Grymes Hill don't have enough people living there to support an express bus. You're better off just letting them continue to drive to the nearest express bus line.

 

And Castleton Corners has plenty of express bus service: They have both the X12/X42 and X10/X11, as well as the X14 if they are further north.

 

I was just agreeing w/SI North about us having just as many affluent areas that can afford the express bus as the South Shore does, since he was talking about how we here on the North Shore would use the express buses if more were added. :cool: And yes, since I'm the next neighbourhood over here in West Brighton, that's why I use all of their express buses because they get later service on the X12 and X10 than we do. :mad: That still needs to be evened out, but Rome wasn't built in a day... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just have to tell it like it is. Yes, the North Shore relies more on local bus service but it is also poorer generally speaking than the South Shore, esp. since most of the housing projects are on the North Shore. South Shore folks would esp. go crazy as many of them ride the express bus solely because they have the financial means to do so. They refuse to ride the subway even in the city even when the traffic is a complete mess. I've been on X1s that have been crawling down 6th Ave and have just gotten off in disgust and jumped on the subway and they all just sit there refusing to get off.

 

The X16 was targeted by the (MTA) to be axed and that's why we don't have it. HOWEVER, if the (MTA) really wanted to put us on par with the South Shore, all they would have to do was to make sure that they ran the express buses in or by our affluent parts of the North Shore (Castleton Corners, Todt Hill, Emerson Hill, Grymes Hill, parts of West Brighton, Randall Manor, etc.) and it would do just fine. Obviously you're not going to get large crowds of project folks using the express bus because logic would tell you that they don't have desposable income to do that.

 

 

 

It's not their fault. The city was providing those buses because they knew damn well how the South Shore was set up and if they didn't want to provide the service, then they should've saw to it that sidewalks were put into place accordingly. Now on the other hand, South Shore folks quite frankly don't want to mingle with the local bus folks and they just use that sidewalk stuff as an excuse to keep that school bus. LOL

 

They're just not tough enough to deal with the local buses (prima donna types) and they want to be sheltered around in cars or school buses. Me on the other hand I just don't care for riding the local bus on Staten Island. Many of the folks just look seedy looking and destitute, as opposed to some of the more upscale folks you see riding the local buses on Madison Avenue for example, not to mention that the local buses out of Castleton smell like sh*t, hence why I usually elect for car service unless car service takes too long.

 

And yes, on the North Shore, you'll hear politicians fighting for both local and express buses, but when you combine the attitudes of South Shore politicians, the express bus comes out a winner everytime. ;)

 

Well if they don't want to mingle with the local bus riders, they should get a private company to take over school bus service and they should pay the full costs of running the service. The DOE is going to give out the most basic form of transportation to school: Public transportation. If you aren't content with that, pay the full cost of another form of transportation.

 

As far as the city giving them school bus service vs. paying for sidewalks, like I said, they moved there knowing that it was a car-centric area. If they want transportation to school, they should either take the regular bus, or pay the full costs of another form of transportation.

 

Considering the fact that you are hesitant about paying taxes for Student MetroCards, you should be completely against them getting a premium service (a school bus) for free. That would be like charging $2.25 for the local bus and making the express bus free: It shouldn't be done. If you want a more expensive service, you should pay the costs of operating it (or at least more of the costs)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well if they don't want to mingle with the local bus riders, they should get a private company to take over school bus service and they should pay the full costs of running the service. The DOE is going to give out the most basic form of transportation to school: Public transportation. If you aren't content with that, pay the full cost of another form of transportation.

 

As far as the city giving them school bus service vs. paying for sidewalks, like I said, they moved there knowing that it was a car-centric area. If they want transportation to school, they should either take the regular bus, or pay the full costs of another form of transportation.

 

Considering the fact that you are hesitant about paying taxes for Student MetroCards, you should be completely against them getting a premium service (a school bus) for free. That would be like charging $2.25 for the local bus and making the express bus free: It shouldn't be done. If you want a more expensive service, you should pay the costs of operating it (or at least more of the costs)

 

Perhaps I would be had the city not given it to them originally, but they did give it to them and they knew exactly why too. That's what you refuse to acknowledge. If they really wanted to save money, they would've put sidewalks in there to begin with and there would've been no need for the school buses. This is coming from someone who wants taxpayers to foot the bill for student Metrocards who thinks that the "basic" service of 3 rides for school isn't enough... LOL

 

Aside from that the buses are needed anyway for the younger children who they give bus service for, so if it doesn't cost them anything, they can just let those older kids ride with them, which is basically what the parents argue and I agree. Why let the school buses run half empty and give the kids Metrocards, which is an extra expense ;) when that service is more convenient and safer??

 

Talk about contradictions... You've argued before that all students should be able to go to school for free (on the taxpayers dime) and yet you're fighting tooth and nail against this, which in reality costs more by way of giving these kids Metrocards...? :eek: :confused:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I would be had the city not given it to them originally, but they did give it to them and they knew exactly why too. That's what you refuse to acknowledge. If they really wanted to save money, they would've put sidewalks in there to begin with and there would've been no need for the school buses. This is coming from someone who wants taxpayers to foot the bill for student Metrocards who thinks that the "basic" service of 3 rides for school isn't enough... LOL

 

Aside from that the buses are needed anyway for the younger children who they give bus service for, so if it doesn't cost them anything, they can just let those older kids ride with them, which is basically what the parents argue and I agree. Why let the school buses run half empty and give the kids Metrocards, which is an extra expense ;) when that service is more convenient and safer??

 

Talk about contradictions... You've argued before that all students should be able to go to school for free (on the taxpayers dime) and yet you're fighting tooth and nail against this, which in reality costs more by way of giving these kids Metrocards...? :eek: :confused:

 

The city and state give the MTA a fixed amount for Student MetroCards, so it isn't an added expense (for the DOE anyway)

 

So let me get this straight: A 7th or 8th grader in the wealthy South Shore should get free school bus service while students on the North Shore (and the rest of the city in general) have to pay for a basic form of transportation to school?

 

And I support them taking away the school buses, but I think it could be done in a most cost-effective manner: If you are taking away the service from 7th and 8th graders, consolidate the buses as much as possible, so that you don't have 5 6th graders on a bus (I think they should be eliminated for 6th graders too, but grades 3-6 fall into a different category than grades 7-12)

 

Alright, they can build sidewalks in the area, but watch the residents of the South Shore start to complain about how it is "destroying the character of the neighborhood"

 

And those students are still able to get to school for free, but without using a more expensive form of transportation (that need I remind you that the taxpayers are paying for).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The city and state give the MTA a fixed amount for Student MetroCards, so it isn't an added expense (for the DOE anyway)

 

So let me get this straight: A 7th or 8th grader in the wealthy South Shore should get free school bus service while students on the North Shore (and the rest of the city in general) have to pay for a basic form of transportation to school?

 

Not should "get". They had the service. You talk as if they're getting something they didn't have before. Why don't you address the reason why they got the school buses to begin with??? ;)

 

Also, even if the State is giving them a fixed amount of money, that is money being wasted that doesn't need to be. If they were asking for the service now I would say no, but since they've had it now for years and the school buses weren't cut and are still running (albeit half empty), why not let them continue to use it??? They're not saving anything by forcing them on to the local buses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Might as well get the (S79) involved some how... How about it runs 24/7??

 

If the S79 gets overnight service, I think the S78 would have to be eliminated at night to make that happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well if they don't want to mingle with the local bus riders, they should get a private company to take over school bus service and they should pay the full costs of running the service. The DOE is going to give out the most basic form of transportation to school: Public transportation. If you aren't content with that, pay the full cost of another form of transportation.

 

As far as the city giving them school bus service vs. paying for sidewalks, like I said, they moved there knowing that it was a car-centric area. If they want transportation to school, they should either take the regular bus, or pay the full costs of another form of transportation.

 

Considering the fact that you are hesitant about paying taxes for Student MetroCards, you should be completely against them getting a premium service (a school bus) for free. That would be like charging $2.25 for the local bus and making the express bus free: It shouldn't be done. If you want a more expensive service, you should pay the costs of operating it (or at least more of the costs)

 

Via Garibaldi 8 doesn't understand that the DOE deliberately knocked their 7th and 8th grade bus service out precisely because of the fact that they can afford not to do it. The other area affected was Breezy Point. What does Breezy Point and many areas of Staten Island have in common?

 

In Breezy Point, a private bus company operates for an all girls high school in the mornings. It costs each kid $3 per head and they use coach equipment. What the city is saying in essence is that the parents can afford to do something similar. The implementation was unfair, but virtually all of the public statements about this issue miss the mark. The city did this to get its point across to these neighborhoods that they do not have the power they think they do. The MTA did the same last year to an extent.

 

I'm not saying that all express bus service should be $10 tomorrow. I am simply stating that the express bus system will be substantially reduced if the capital program is not funded properly. The first generation MCIs have had it and there is not enough money currently to replace them all. They will simply snatch MTA Bus's units and spread them out by enacting massive service cuts if the current situation continues. The QM21 was a test case for consolidating runs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first generation MCIs have had it and there is not enough money currently to replace them all. They will simply snatch MTA Bus's units and spread them out by enacting massive service cuts if the current situation continues. The QM21 was a test case for consolidating runs.

 

Express service is something the MTA must deal with. Sure, all the express bus lovers say it's a nice alternative to the subway. If I could take it, I sure would. But traditional transit planning dictates that express buses are an alternate for local service, and they should be the first to go. Staten Island is a special case, and the fact that the alternate to the express bus requires slow waterborne transportation (not really that slow, but customer perspective is everything!), means that express buses on SI are here to stay.

 

If anything, I predict the MTA snatching buses from all the other boroughs to keep SI express buses going at current levels. Via Garibaldi 8: are there any empty SI express routes/which are they? Outer borough service should go in the order of off peak first, then those near subways (BxM1/2/4/7A/11, QM10/11/12/24/25, BM1/3/5).

 

Various transit research publications: http://www.tcrponline.org/bin/publications.pl (get name, then google for pdf to avoid login)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree S89 should run 7-Days with meeting beginning of both trains and run until end of last HBLR trains from either direction.

That way, people who return to Staten Island from Jersey City or Bayonne or West Side Av riders, they do not have to worry about missing last S89 bus.

 

When I went on S89 bus adventure, HBLR 2nd St was late, and I almost miss last S89 bus, but made it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Express service is something the MTA must deal with. Sure, all the express bus lovers say it's a nice alternative to the subway. If I could take it, I sure would. But traditional transit planning dictates that express buses are an alternate for local service, and they should be the first to go. Staten Island is a special case, and the fact that the alternate to the express bus requires slow waterborne transportation (not really that slow, but customer perspective is everything!), means that express buses on SI are here to stay.

 

If anything, I predict the MTA snatching buses from all the other boroughs to keep SI express buses going at current levels. Via Garibaldi 8: are there any empty SI express routes/which are they? Outer borough service should go in the order of off peak first, then those near subways (BxM1/2/4/7A/11, QM10/11/12/24/25, BM1/3/5).

 

Various transit research publications: http://www.tcrponline.org/bin/publications.pl (get name, then google for pdf to avoid login)

 

These are all of the SI express buses that I use regularly:

 

X1, X2, X9, X10, X11, X12, X14, X15, X30

 

I honestly don't think there is too much more that they can cut.

 

Remember they got rid of the X6, X13, X16, X18, X20. The X6 riders have flocked to either the X1, X7 or X9.

 

X13 riders now use the X14.

X16 riders have flocked to the X12, X14 and X30.

 

The X14 could actually use a later bus in the morning as the last one is now PACKED because all of the folks that took the last X16, which ran later now take that bus and that was almost a completely full bus. Some of those folks went to the X12 since it runs even later in the AM and doesn't stop after Slosson & Victory.

 

X7s when the first cuts took place were PACKED and that hasn't changed too much, but folks are alternating with the X9 and I think the schedule was adjusted a bit to make sure there were enough Midtown buses to handle the crowds. They sort of underestimated how runs were needed when the slashed all of the X1s running from Midtown in the evenings during the rush.

 

You also have folks going down to use the X1 now that they lost their service on the North Shore express buses like the X16.

 

Last night I used the X12 and it wasn't packed only because there was another X12 in front of us otherwise it would've been more crowded. Mind you it was the last X12 of the night, so it being half full with another bus in front isn't too bad.

 

I take the last X30 in the mornings and it is rather full also, so there isn't too much to cut. Maybe they could cut a bus here or there in the early morning, but the growth in the later half of the morning on the express buses after 08:30 is very interesting to me and I'm sure the (MTA) finds it interesting also. They recently added an X2 to take the load off of the X1s during 09:00. All and all if they were to do any more cutting you would have lots of SRO buses. That last X14 has gotten so bad that I've stopped using it. I actually will take it and get off and wait for an X2 which is crowded, but more tolerable compared to the X14. A few times when I've gotten off the bus at Hylan to transfer to the X2, the bus was almost SRO and it picks up a ton at the last two stops so I can only imagine how crowded it is now. The PM rush on the X14 is okay though because I get the last bus, but it still usually crowded enough that it can't be eliminated. Tonite it was empty, but it was a holiday, so that's understandable.

 

Via Garibaldi 8 doesn't understand that the DOE deliberately knocked their 7th and 8th grade bus service out precisely because of the fact that they can afford not to do it. The other area affected was Breezy Point. What does Breezy Point and many areas of Staten Island have in common?

 

In Breezy Point, a private bus company operates for an all girls high school in the mornings. It costs each kid $3 per head and they use coach equipment. What the city is saying in essence is that the parents can afford to do something similar. The implementation was unfair, but virtually all of the public statements about this issue miss the mark. The city did this to get its point across to these neighborhoods that they do not have the power they think they do. The MTA did the same last year to an extent.

 

I'm not saying that all express bus service should be $10 tomorrow. I am simply stating that the express bus system will be substantially reduced if the capital program is not funded properly. The first generation MCIs have had it and there is not enough money currently to replace them all. They will simply snatch MTA Bus's units and spread them out by enacting massive service cuts if the current situation continues. The QM21 was a test case for consolidating runs.

 

You seriously underestimate what I do and don't know, especially considering that I live here. I'm well aware that the service was deliberately taken away from them and that's another reason why Vincent Ignizio filed a lawsuit against the city. Like I said before, the lower grades are using the same exact buses that the 7th and 8th graders were riding on, according to the parents, which is why it is pointless to not allow them to ride the buses. If the buses are now running half empty and just carrying the kids from the lower grades, then there is no reason why the kids from the 7th & 8th grade can't use them. How exactly are they saving any money if these same buses are still running with just fewer kids on them???

 

This is why I say let them have the service. If they had eliminated the buses completely it would be one thing, but from my understanding they haven't so I don't see the harm in letting the 7th & 8th graders ride.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not should "get". They had the service. You talk as if they're getting something they didn't have before. Why don't you address the reason why they got the school buses to begin with??? ;)

 

Also, even if the State is giving them a fixed amount of money, that is money being wasted that doesn't need to be. If they were asking for the service now I would say no, but since they've had it now for years and the school buses weren't cut and are still running (albeit half empty), why not let them continue to use it??? They're not saving anything by forcing them on to the local buses.

 

Student MetroCards existed before as well.

 

And they were able to consolidate a few bus runs. My brother says that there used to be 30 school buses serving his school, and now there are about 18 (ideally, if 2/3 of the ridership disappeared, they should've cut it down to 10 buses, but for some reason, they didn't consolidate enough runs)

 

Via Garibaldi 8 doesn't understand that the DOE deliberately knocked their 7th and 8th grade bus service out precisely because of the fact that they can afford not to do it. The other area affected was Breezy Point. What does Breezy Point and many areas of Staten Island have in common?

 

In Breezy Point, a private bus company operates for an all girls high school in the mornings. It costs each kid $3 per head and they use coach equipment. What the city is saying in essence is that the parents can afford to do something similar. The implementation was unfair, but virtually all of the public statements about this issue miss the mark. The city did this to get its point across to these neighborhoods that they do not have the power they think they do. The MTA did the same last year to an extent.

 

I'm not saying that all express bus service should be $10 tomorrow. I am simply stating that the express bus system will be substantially reduced if the capital program is not funded properly. The first generation MCIs have had it and there is not enough money currently to replace them all. They will simply snatch MTA Bus's units and spread them out by enacting massive service cuts if the current situation continues. The QM21 was a test case for consolidating runs.

 

That area didn't really get affected by the service reductions. Most of the complaints were from the Tottenville/Rossville/Huguenot area, which didn't see any service reductions.

 

Express service is something the MTA must deal with. Sure, all the express bus lovers say it's a nice alternative to the subway. If I could take it, I sure would. But traditional transit planning dictates that express buses are an alternate for local service, and they should be the first to go. Staten Island is a special case, and the fact that the alternate to the express bus requires slow waterborne transportation (not really that slow, but customer perspective is everything!), means that express buses on SI are here to stay.

 

If anything, I predict the MTA snatching buses from all the other boroughs to keep SI express buses going at current levels. Via Garibaldi 8: are there any empty SI express routes/which are they? Outer borough service should go in the order of off peak first, then those near subways (BxM1/2/4/7A/11, QM10/11/12/24/25, BM1/3/5).

 

Various transit research publications: http://www.tcrponline.org/bin/publications.pl (get name, then google for pdf to avoid login)

 

The ferry isn't just perceived as slow: It is slow. A trip from my neighborhood to Lower Manhattan takes about 40 minutes by express bus vs. 70 minutes on the local bus (counting about 10 minutes for walking and waiting time)

 

They might be able to reduce service if they added some additional service to Brooklyn, but, like you said, most express routes are here to stay (not that it is a bad thing, since the remaining routes have high ridership)

 

These are all of the SI express buses that I use regularly:

 

X1, X2, X9, X10, X11, X12, X14, X15, X30

 

I honestly don't think there is too much more that they can cut.

 

Remember they got rid of the X6, X13, X16, X18, X20. The X6 riders have flocked to either the X1, X7 or X9.

 

X13 riders now use the X14.

X16 riders have flocked to the X12, X14 and X30.

 

The X14 could actually use a later bus in the morning as the last one is now PACKED because all of the folks that took the last X16, which ran later now take that bus and that was almost a completely full bus. Some of those folks went to the X12 since it runs even later in the AM and doesn't stop after Slosson & Victory.

 

X7s when the first cuts took place were PACKED and that hasn't changed too much, but folks are alternating with the X9 and I think the schedule was adjusted a bit to make sure there were enough Midtown buses to handle the crowds. They sort of underestimated how runs were needed when the slashed all of the X1s running from Midtown in the evenings during the rush.

 

You also have folks going down to use the X1 now that they lost their service on the North Shore express buses like the X16.

 

Last night I used the X12 and it wasn't packed only because there was another X12 in front of us otherwise it would've been more crowded. Mind you it was the last X12 of the night, so it being half full with another bus in front isn't too bad.

 

I take the last X30 in the mornings and it is rather full also, so there isn't too much to cut. Maybe they could cut a bus here or there in the early morning, but the growth in the later half of the morning on the express buses after 08:30 is very interesting to me and I'm sure the (MTA) finds it interesting also. They recently added an X2 to take the load off of the X1s during 09:00. All and all if they were to do any more cutting you would have lots of SRO buses. That last X14 has gotten so bad that I've stopped using it. I actually will take it and get off and wait for an X2 which is crowded, but more tolerable compared to the X14. A few times when I've gotten off the bus at Hylan to transfer to the X2, the bus was almost SRO and it picks up a ton at the last two stops so I can only imagine how crowded it is now. The PM rush on the X14 is okay though because I get the last bus, but it still usually crowded enough that it can't be eliminated. Tonite it was empty, but it was a holiday, so that's understandable.

 

 

 

You seriously underestimate what I do and don't know, especially considering that I live here. I'm well aware that the service was deliberately taken away from them and that's another reason why Vincent Ignizio filed a lawsuit against the city. Like I said before, the lower grades are using the same exact buses that the 7th and 8th graders were riding on, according to the parents, which is why it is pointless to not allow them to ride the buses. If the buses are now running half empty and just carrying the kids from the lower grades, then there is no reason why the kids from the 7th & 8th grade can't use them. How exactly are they saving any money if these same buses are still running with just fewer kids on them???

 

This is why I say let them have the service. If they had eliminated the buses completely it would be one thing, but from my understanding they haven't so I don't see the harm in letting the 7th & 8th graders ride.

 

The school buses that carried the 7th and 8th graders were only used to serve intermediate schools, so the only "lower grade" that could use those runs are 6th graders. (Within a couple of years, I'm sure school buses for 6th graders will be gone as well)

 

And like I said, I don't see how you could oppose the Student MetroCard program (which has been here even longer than the school bus variance, though in a different form), and yet you want to give them a free form of premium transportation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You seriously underestimate what I do and don't know, especially considering that I live here. I'm well aware that the service was deliberately taken away from them and that's another reason why Vincent Ignizio filed a lawsuit against the city. Like I said before, the lower grades are using the same exact buses that the 7th and 8th graders were riding on, according to the parents, which is why it is pointless to not allow them to ride the buses. If the buses are now running half empty and just carrying the kids from the lower grades, then there is no reason why the kids from the 7th & 8th grade can't use them. How exactly are they saving any money if these same buses are still running with just fewer kids on them???

 

This is why I say let them have the service. If they had eliminated the buses completely it would be one thing, but from my understanding they haven't so I don't see the harm in letting the 7th & 8th graders ride.

 

Think about what you just said, considering that you live there. How could the city save $1.6M by keeping all of the buses, but kicking the 7th and 8th graders off the buses. Does that sound right to you?

 

What the city said was that they MIGHT consider sticking 7th and 8th graders on regular buses if the need is great. The parents want to see that happen, but there is also a liability involved with sticking 7th and 8th graders on buses with younger children. The parents of the younger kids would KILL the DOE if something happened because of the age gap. Middle school is a different world to elementary school. When I was in elementary school, they did their best to shield us from the older kids.

 

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/school_bus_cuts_causes_to_doe.html

 

The city also thinks they may incur additional costs by changing routes to serve the older kids. Exemptions tend to get out of hand.

 

By law, the school district (in NYC, the Department of Education) is responsible for getting kids to school. So, I agree that the yellow bus service should be provided, even if they have to charge the parents extra. It works for Bronx Science, which has private yellow bus service. The fares are similar to the express buses. However, the city is simply abandoning their responsibility for the purposes of savings. People who don't mind screwing kids over will not hesitate to deprive the parents of services.

 

This leads me to my belief that the express bus system is going to contract substantially between now and 2014. MTA Bus cost NYC $286M in year 1 and will cost $422M this year. The city is trying to toll the East River bridges to take these buses completely off the balance sheet. I believe this is a bad idea because it will allow the city to "cash out" of public transit. When fuel got high last time, traffic plunged on the MTA crossings. It means that the "profit" for transit dropped too. The estimates are that the bridges will bring in $1B of revenue and cost $400M to maintain. However, the estimate does not adequately account for the fact that today's bridges are free. When the bridges fall short, MTA Bus will fall short and the other divisions would have to rescue it.

 

I anticipate that the East River bridge tolls will pass in exchange for payroll tax relief. The bridges will end up paying for Long Island Bus as well. After the bridges are secured, a massive fare hike will go through to bond the capital program. The express buses that are break even will be saved and they will only carry 40-50% of today's traffic. The MTA Bus MCIs get spread out all over. The subway would also break even under those new fares.

 

THIS is why they want congestion pricing so bad. It is a massive new revenue source, but it is also a way to extract additional revenue out of premium real estate. The premise of congestion pricing is to maximize revenue for accessing the center city. After you secure vehicular access, you can charge mass transit users a premium too. It is too tempting to avoid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think about what you just said, considering that you live there. How could the city save $1.6M by keeping all of the buses, but kicking the 7th and 8th graders off the buses. Does that sound right to you?

 

What the city said was that they MIGHT consider sticking 7th and 8th graders on regular buses if the need is great. The parents want to see that happen, but there is also a liability involved with sticking 7th and 8th graders on buses with younger children. The parents of the younger kids would KILL the DOE if something happened because of the age gap. Middle school is a different world to elementary school. When I was in elementary school, they did their best to shield us from the older kids.

 

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/school_bus_cuts_causes_to_doe.html

 

The city also thinks they may incur additional costs by changing routes to serve the older kids. Exemptions tend to get out of hand.

 

By law, the school district (in NYC, the Department of Education) is responsible for getting kids to school. So, I agree that the yellow bus service should be provided, even if they have to charge the parents extra. It works for Bronx Science, which has private yellow bus service. The fares are similar to the express buses. However, the city is simply abandoning their responsibility for the purposes of savings. People who don't mind screwing kids over will not hesitate to deprive the parents of services.

 

This leads me to my belief that the express bus system is going to contract substantially between now and 2014. MTA Bus cost NYC $286M in year 1 and will cost $422M this year. The city is trying to toll the East River bridges to take these buses completely off the balance sheet. I believe this is a bad idea because it will allow the city to "cash out" of public transit. When fuel got high last time, traffic plunged on the MTA crossings. It means that the "profit" for transit dropped too. The estimates are that the bridges will bring in $1B of revenue and cost $400M to maintain. However, the estimate does not adequately account for the fact that today's bridges are free. When the bridges fall short, MTA Bus will fall short and the other divisions would have to rescue it.

 

I anticipate that the East River bridge tolls will pass in exchange for payroll tax relief. The bridges will end up paying for Long Island Bus as well. After the bridges are secured, a massive fare hike will go through to bond the capital program. The express buses that are break even will be saved and they will only carry 40-50% of today's traffic. The MTA Bus MCIs get spread out all over. The subway would also break even under those new fares.

 

THIS is why they want congestion pricing so bad. It is a massive new revenue source, but it is also a way to extract additional revenue out of premium real estate. The premise of congestion pricing is to maximize revenue for accessing the center city. After you secure vehicular access, you can charge mass transit users a premium too. It is too tempting to avoid.

 

I've read this previously. The article also points out the following:

 

"The e-mail - unveiled during the trial over a lawsuit to restore the buses in state Supreme Court in the former home port in Stapleton yesterday - was another in a series of potentially embarrassing internal correspondences among top DOE exposed in the courtroom. Other e-mails revealed DOE officials consider the yellow buses a political favor to the Island, were unclear whether eliminating them would save any money and that they were not sure they would be able to provide all those students with MetroCards to use public transportation.

Ms. Grimm's e-mail directly contradicts the message in a letter the DOE sent to school principals the very next day, which stated that although it was eliminating a blanket variance for Island seventh and eighth graders, parents could apply for individual variances due to hazardous conditions or lack of public transportation. Normally, the DOE only buses students up to sixth grade."

 

 

The issue I have w/this whole thing is they clearly felt that the service was needed due to a lack of transportation on the South Shore, hence why there were providing the service. If they didn't feel that way then they shouldn't have provided the service to begin with. Now suddenly they're taking away the service and not providing alternatives. The article says that they may not be able to provide adequate MetroCards.

 

Quite frankly my issue isn't that these kids should get special treatment because they're from affluent areas of the South Shore. I think it is BS the way the DOE has handled the whole issue. The article shows that the e-mails sent back and forth clearly show that they're not even sure that the cuts will provide a real savings so it is like they are just trying to find any old way to get out of the agreement. If you ask me they should've provided shuttle buses for the kids OR had the Metrocards in place OR the infrastructure in place. If they did those things, there would be no need for the school buses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Student MetroCards existed before as well.

 

And they were able to consolidate a few bus runs. My brother says that there used to be 30 school buses serving his school, and now there are about 18 (ideally, if 2/3 of the ridership disappeared, they should've cut it down to 10 buses, but for some reason, they didn't consolidate enough runs)

 

 

 

That area didn't really get affected by the service reductions. Most of the complaints were from the Tottenville/Rossville/Huguenot area, which didn't see any service reductions.

 

 

 

The ferry isn't just perceived as slow: It is slow. A trip from my neighborhood to Lower Manhattan takes about 40 minutes by express bus vs. 70 minutes on the local bus (counting about 10 minutes for walking and waiting time)

 

They might be able to reduce service if they added some additional service to Brooklyn, but, like you said, most express routes are here to stay (not that it is a bad thing, since the remaining routes have high ridership)

 

 

 

The school buses that carried the 7th and 8th graders were only used to serve intermediate schools, so the only "lower grade" that could use those runs are 6th graders. (Within a couple of years, I'm sure school buses for 6th graders will be gone as well)

 

And like I said, I don't see how you could oppose the Student MetroCard program (which has been here even longer than the school bus variance, though in a different form), and yet you want to give them a free form of premium transportation.

 

 

Student MetroCards existed before as well.

 

And they were able to consolidate a few bus runs. My brother says that there used to be 30 school buses serving his school, and now there are about 18 (ideally, if 2/3 of the ridership disappeared, they should've cut it down to 10 buses, but for some reason, they didn't consolidate enough runs)

 

 

 

That area didn't really get affected by the service reductions. Most of the complaints were from the Tottenville/Rossville/Huguenot area, which didn't see any service reductions.

 

 

 

The ferry isn't just perceived as slow: It is slow. A trip from my neighborhood to Lower Manhattan takes about 40 minutes by express bus vs. 70 minutes on the local bus (counting about 10 minutes for walking and waiting time)

 

They might be able to reduce service if they added some additional service to Brooklyn, but, like you said, most express routes are here to stay (not that it is a bad thing, since the remaining routes have high ridership)

 

 

 

The school buses that carried the 7th and 8th graders were only used to serve intermediate schools, so the only "lower grade" that could use those runs are 6th graders. (Within a couple of years, I'm sure school buses for 6th graders will be gone as well)

 

And like I said, I don't see how you could oppose the Student MetroCard program (which has been here even longer than the school bus variance, though in a different form), and yet you want to give them a free form of premium transportation.

 

 

See my comments above... Also, my question is why can't the (MTA) run a few shuttles for the kids? The parents do have a point in that those areas of SI are very underserved by mass transit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the S79 gets overnight service, I think the S78 would have to be eliminated at night to make that happen.

 

Yeah, but you still need service to serve Tottenville, etc. Perhaps they could set it up where the (S78) ran as a shuttle in that part to hook up w/other lines, but that would mean so St. George service. My thinking is that the South Shore should have two local bus options just like the North Shore does.

 

North Shore riders have the ferry to a local bus OR the train to the (S53) 24/7. Why shouldn't the South Shore have the same thing?? That's why I think the (S79) should run 24/7. I've seen the last (S79) while waiting for car service on Hylan from the express bus and they are quite full in comparison to the (S78).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See my comments above... Also, my question is why can't the (MTA) run a few shuttles for the kids? The parents do have a point in that those areas of SI are very underserved by mass transit.

 

The MTA's job does not consist of cleaning up the DOE's problems. The DOE has the responsibility for moving the kids. Why should the MTA be the cash machine for everyone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.