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Three different neighborhoods within a few hundred feet? Where to draw the line in Queens?

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Three different neighborhoods within a few hundred feet? Where to draw the line in Queens?

BY Nicholas Hirshon

NY DAILY NEWS WRITER

 

Sunday, May 1st 2011

 

'Shoppers converge each day at the busy intersection of Metropolitan Ave. and Woodhaven Blvd., near Home Depot, Sports Authority, Staples and Trader Joe's.

 

It's a brief walk between the stores, but navigating the small complex is a lesson in Queens cartography.

 

Just ask Jack Zwerenz, 78, who has lived nearby his entire life.

 

"Home Depot is Glendale," he said. "Sports Authority is Forest Hills. Staples, Trader Joe's - that's considered Rego Park."

 

Three different neighborhoods within a few hundred feet?

 

"We've got hairy areas," he admitted with a laugh.

 

For decades, Queens residents like Zwerenz have debated where neighborhoods begin and end, or if ever-growing lists of subneighborhoods are legitimate.

 

To argue their case, they turn to deeds, city records, store receipts, zip code tables and anything they feel serves as an indicator of the boundaries.

 

But since there's no agreed-upon authority, defining every Queens neighborhood is, in effect, subjective.

 

That means the names that dictate real estate values and auto insurance rates are based largely on popular opinion.

 

The 2007 book "The Neighborhoods of Queens," whose editors consulted civic leaders, identifies 56 neighborhoods and 43 smaller subneighborhoods.

 

But that total is in dispute.

 

"It's very wishy-washy," said Queens borough historian Jack Eichenbaum.

 

He charged that brokers often mislead their clients, for example, by listing apartments in Elmhurst as being within the more highly regarded Jackson Heights.

 

A similar situation in Brooklyn recently sparked state Assemblyman Hakeem Jeffries to propose official neighborhood borders. Jeffries began his push after he saw agents hawking properties on the border of Prospect Heights and Crown Heights as "ProCro."

 

He has suggested legislation to scold agents for inventing neighborhood titles and expanding the boundaries of existing areas.

 

Queens civic leaders, however, have mocked the idea, saying that a definitive list of neighborhoods is impossible given local disputes and a confusing list of places.

 

Flushing, for example, is divided into nine subneighborhoods, including Linden Hill and Queensboro Hill, according to "The Neighborhoods of Queens."

 

The book says St. John's University spans two neighborhoods - Jamaica Hills to the west and Jamaica Estates to east.

 

Adding to all the confusion, the university website lists its address as Jamaica, while some civic leaders insist it's in Hillcrest or Fresh Meadows.

 

Asked to settle the topographic tiff, Deborah Ayala of the Jamaica Hills Community Association instead posed another possibility.

 

Despite her group's name, she said she prefers Jamaica Hill, not Hills, adding, "It's always been known as a gray area."

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/05/01/2011-05-01_where_to_draw_line.html

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Queens has always been a strange borough....

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I live in Ridgewood and this problem affects me. Some say, Ridgewood is in Brooklyn, same say Ridgewood is in a Queens and Bushwick is part of Brooklyn yet there is no defined border between the two. I say that south of Seneca Ave is Brooklyn. A house could literally be in 2 boroughs.

 

Another border problem is between Ridgewood and Glendale. I get mail to my house saying Ridgewood Ny and sometimes the mail says Glendale, NY

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When I lived in Queens (on 61 St & Myrtle), I always called that Glendale but half the time mine said Ridgewood as well

 

The Brooklyn-Queens borer that cuts Bushwick & Ridgewood is a weird one. From the cemetary, it travels down Moffat St (or that block near it, Wyckoff Av, between Gates & Linden Avs (literally through their backyards lol), Cypress Av, then after that, I'm not sure

 

Come to think of it, I don't know the border with Middle Village & Ridgewood

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Queens has always been a strange borough....

 

Yeah with all its RDs, LNs, Aves and whatever else. I've always been thrown off my biological compass out there when I'm trying to go up or down in numbers and I go from 70th avenue to 70th rd

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Why not just merge the smaller neighborhoods into bigger neighborhoods, and change some borders around. I am sure some people would be pissed, but it's just a random neighborhood after all.

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Yeah with all its RDs, LNs, Aves and whatever else. I've always been thrown off my biological compass out there when I'm trying to go up or down in numbers and I go from 70th avenue to 70th rd

 

Drives! You forgot "Drive" :P

 

Another thing I don't get is the thing with the mail system. When you send mail to a Queens address, the neighborhood is written, not the borough. And just like the others here said it's kind of an annoyance.

 

When I lived in Queens from 2000 to 2001 I'd get mail that often had "Saint Albans", and at times they would say "Hollis". The public school that I went to a few minutes away from me was in Hollis for sure, but I used to live off on 111th Road, a block and a half away from Farmers Boulevard. To this day I'm not sure if my house at the time was in Saint Albans or Hollis.

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Most of us on the boards live in or have lived in NYC. Yet now I also get confused with the neighborhoods not only in Queens but also citywide in last 20 years as well.

 

Until recently I did not know what "Dumbo' area of Brooklyn Heights was. Or "East Williamsburg' in area of the (L) subway line travels along in Bushwick where many college aged kids/young adults have apartment lofts.

 

 

In this case, blame the real estate biz as article stated for trying to confuse many of us native new yorkers as well.:confused:

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Drives! You forgot "Drive" :P

 

Another thing I don't get is the thing with the mail system. When you send mail to a Queens address, the neighborhood is written, not the borough. And just like the others here said it's kind of an annoyance.

 

When I lived in Queens from 2000 to 2001 I'd get mail that often had "Saint Albans", and at times they would say "Hollis". The public school that I went to a few minutes away from me was in Hollis for sure, but I used to live off on 111th Road, a block and a half away from Farmers Boulevard. To this day I'm not sure if my house at the time was in Saint Albans or Hollis.

 

@_@ I don't know how I could forget that one. I used to live out there. The mail thing I kind of just rolled with as Queens is a huge borough. But I never really got it.

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Why not just merge the smaller neighborhoods into bigger neighborhoods, and change some borders around. I am sure some people would be pissed, but it's just a random neighborhood after all.

 

...says someone who doesn't live in Queens.

 

It's a matter of personal pride, I guess. I've always put Flushing on my envelopes. Never knew why we do it differently than the rest of the city, just that we do it differently.

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Yeah with all its RDs, LNs, Aves and whatever else. I've always been thrown off my biological compass out there when I'm trying to go up or down in numbers and I go from 70th avenue to 70th rd

 

Such a shame that in what the 40s/50s? Most of it was still farmland. They should've gridded Queens the way they gridded Manhattan. Would've made things much more simple.

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Guest lance25

Just a wild guess, but weren't Queens and Brooklyn (at least part of them) considered the "suburbs" at one point? It may be why all the roads go every which way but up.

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Most of us on the boards live in or have lived in NYC. Yet now I also get confused with the neighborhoods not only in Queens but also citywide in last 20 years as well.

 

Until recently I did not know what "Dumbo' area of Brooklyn Heights was. Or "East Williamsburg' in area of the (L) subway line travels along in Bushwick where many college aged kids/young adults have apartment lofts.

 

 

In this case, blame the real estate biz as article stated for trying to confuse many of us native new yorkers as well.:confused:

 

DUMBO has been called that for maybe 20 or so years but the area known as DUMBO has grown a bit. As for "East Williamsburg", it's a bunch of BS. That area is Bushwick and it's only been renamed to to market it to people who don't know Brooklyn.

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...says someone who doesn't live in Queens.

 

It's a matter of personal pride, I guess. I've always put Flushing on my envelopes. Never knew why we do it differently than the rest of the city, just that we do it differently.

 

its a holdover from before Queens was part of New York city

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I laugh everytime I hear/read "East Williamsburg".... or "Mill Island"... or my personal favorite, "Stuyvesant Heights"...

 

 

Why not just merge the smaller neighborhoods into bigger neighborhoods, and change some borders around. I am sure some people would be pissed, but it's just a random neighborhood after all.

Good luck getting the US postal service to agree with that.....

------

 

 

Anyway, this thing of little neighborhoods being defined out of current neighborhoods, is only gonna get worse....

 

for example:

The area where the B67 & the B69 terminate on the northern end of the route, is in the neighborhood of RAMBO.... I remember when people started to refer to that area, as being in DUMBO.... but in many people's eyes, that's still considered downtown brooklyn....

 

^^ (me personally, I consider it DUMBO; that's not downtown brooklyn...

to me, downtown pans no further north than tillary street)

 

 

Anyway, Fulton Ferry is considered DUMBO now.... RAMBO was carved out of DUMBO...

 

for those that don't know:

- "DUMBO" = down under manhattan bridge overpass

- "RAMBO" = right after manhattan bridge overpass

- Fulton Ferry = was the area directly above the northern tip of Brooklyn Heights

(B25 signs IINM, used to read Fulton Ferry... now I think they just say Furman st.... but that entire area is considered DUMBO).... If anyone ever went to Grimaldi's (pizza); that's in the specific pocket that used to be called fulton ferry)

Edited by B35 via Church

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It's all a scam so that people not from Brooklyn or New York City will pay higher prices to live in these trendy "new" neighborhoods.

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It's all a scam so that people not from Brooklyn or New York City will pay higher prices to live in these trendy "new" neighborhoods.

 

Exactly what it is.

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I've seen my location under 8 different names.

 

Queens, NY

 

Jamaica, NY (most common because of the zip code)

 

South Jamaica, NY

 

Springfield Gardens, NY

 

Locust Manor, NY

 

You get the point....and I don't think definite definitions are needed, just leave it alone.

 

I remember not too long ago when Trump? started up that "SoBro" (South Bronx) thing. I can picture "Anyone's who's anyone lives in SoBro" being said sometime in the future.

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I was born in Astoria,I moved to Jackson Heights at 2 years old,I moved to Bayside at 10 years old,I moved to Elmhurst at 23,I moved to Flushing at 27 and I left Queens for good in 1997 when I moved to Brooklyn.

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I laugh everytime I hear/read "East Williamsburg".... or "Mill Island"... or my personal favorite, "Stuyvesant Heights"...

 

 

 

Good luck getting the US postal service to agree with that.....

------

 

 

Anyway, this thing of little neighborhoods being defined out of current neighborhoods, is only gonna get worse....

 

for example:

The area where the B67 & the B69 terminate on the northern end of the route, is in the neighborhood of RAMBO.... I remember when people started to refer to that area, as being in DUMBO.... but in many people's eyes, that's still considered downtown brooklyn....

 

^^ (me personally, I consider it DUMBO; that's not downtown brooklyn...

to me, downtown pans no further north than tillary street)

 

 

Anyway, Fulton Ferry is considered DUMBO now.... RAMBO was carved out of DUMBO...

 

for those that don't know:

- "DUMBO" = down under manhattan bridge overpass

- "RAMBO" = right after manhattan bridge overpass

- Fulton Ferry = was the area directly above the northern tip of Brooklyn Heights

(B25 signs IINM, used to read Fulton Ferry... now I think they just say Furman st.... but that entire area is considered DUMBO).... If anyone ever went to Grimaldi's (pizza); that's in the specific pocket that used to be called fulton ferry)

 

UGH I hated the name Stuyvesant Heights, and even worse...Weeksville. I still consider that Bed-Stuy (do or die lol)

 

As for the B25, they changed it again. It says DOWNTOWN BKLYN/FULTON LANDING

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I laugh everytime I hear/read "East Williamsburg".... or "Mill Island"... or my personal favorite, "Stuyvesant Heights"...

 

 

 

Good luck getting the US postal service to agree with that.....

------

 

 

Anyway, this thing of little neighborhoods being defined out of current neighborhoods, is only gonna get worse....

 

for example:

The area where the B67 & the B69 terminate on the northern end of the route, is in the neighborhood of RAMBO.... I remember when people started to refer to that area, as being in DUMBO.... but in many people's eyes, that's still considered downtown brooklyn....

 

^^ (me personally, I consider it DUMBO; that's not downtown brooklyn...

to me, downtown pans no further north than tillary street)

 

 

Anyway, Fulton Ferry is considered DUMBO now.... RAMBO was carved out of DUMBO...

 

for those that don't know:

- "DUMBO" = down under manhattan bridge overpass

- "RAMBO" = right after manhattan bridge overpass

- Fulton Ferry = was the area directly above the northern tip of Brooklyn Heights

(B25 signs IINM, used to read Fulton Ferry... now I think they just say Furman st.... but that entire area is considered DUMBO).... If anyone ever went to Grimaldi's (pizza); that's in the specific pocket that used to be called fulton ferry)

 

East Williamsburg I can accept (there is a map of NYC that has it west of Flushing Avenue and east of, like Lorimer Street, which I find to be acceptable boundaries). It has a different character than both Williamsburg and Bushwick (it is more industrial, and demographically, it is in the middle of the two areas)

 

DUMBO is another area I'll accept (since the name atarted about 20 years ago), but I think they're going overboard with RAMBO. Personally, I just think of the whole area as Fulton Ferry (I agree its not Downtown Brooklyn, but whenever I talk about it, I just refer to the whole area from Carroll Gardens to Fulton Ferry as Downtown Brooklyn)

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My current neighbourhood is referred to as follows:

 

Officially it is "West New Brighton", but we who live in the neighourhood just call it "West Brighton".

 

I hate anything with "New Brighton" which is the neighbourhood over from us. Anything associated with Jersey St can't be too nice. :eek:

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