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error46146

Why are the bus stops always on the OTHER side of the red light?

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a lot of bus stops are located after a red light...which can be quite frustrating when you are about to get off and stuck at a red light

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I think the passengers trying to catch a bus benefit that the bus is being held by a red light (at the expense of the passengers disembarking from it) so they have time to reach the stop before that bus gets there.

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I think it has to do with traffic flow to a degree. Ideally having the bus stop after the light would generally allow cars to pass by and help traffic flow better. However, there are instances especially on Staten Island where there isn't much of a choice but to have the stop before the light.

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I think it has to do with traffic flow to a degree. Ideally having the bus stop after the light would generally allow cars to pass by and help traffic flow better. However, there are instances especially on Staten Island where there isn't much of a choice but to have the stop before the light.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself!

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Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

Yeah in Manhattan, esp. on 5th Avenue you'll see stops before and after the light on just about every block because of the local and express buses and the tour buses. Also notice how the put those "mini islands" down SoHo because of the crowds. Helps with boarding and disembarking better.

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Yeah in Manhattan, esp. on 5th Avenue you'll see stops before and after the light on just about every block because of the local and express buses and the tour buses. Also notice how the put those "mini islands" down SoHo because of the crowds. Helps with boarding and disembarking better.

 

I think you can say the same thing for 6th and Madison Avenues gong uptown and 7th Avenue going downtown. I've seen a lot of parking spots for special buses besides expresses and locals.

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I think you can say the same thing for 6th and Madison Avenues gong uptown and 7th Avenue going downtown. I've seen a lot of parking spots for special buses besides expresses and locals.

 

Yes, that's very true. 8th Avenue to a degree as well.

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You wouldn't like it much if you had to operate a 40' or 60' bus, staring at a green right in your face, to have to stop dead at a bus stop to pickup/discharge pax.... by time that's all done, you set to pull out of the stop & BAM, have to step on the brakes b/c you're in the midst of catchin a red....

 

I'm sure you've been a standee on a bus where a b/o has to abruptly step on the brakes - not so easy on the arm as you're holding on, now is it...

 

Or, you have b/o's that don't even bother moving the bus when it's at a stop before a red, only to have some impatient numbnut cut the bus off somehow...

 

Ask any F'bush driver that ever did a NB run on the B41, and stopped at flatbush/nostrand, and flatbush/empire..... Hell, they moved the NB stop (on the 41) @ church av from the SE corner to the NE corner a couple years ago, due to the vans cutting buses off 1) just to get in front & 2) beat the light.... on top of other vehicles cuttin buses off, to make that right turn onto church....

 

Another instance where the relocation of a stop from before, to after the light has happened, is the moving of the WB B35 stop @ church/Utica... they moved it from the NE corner to the NW corner (the NE corner is rather condensed, and church av gets a little tighter east of Utica.... and with the frequency of the B35, buses often plugged up church av heading WB..... an added a result of moving this particular stop across the street, pax ended up having (a lot more) waiting space...

 

Those are only two examples, I can think of many others right off the top of my head....

 

 

Not only is it for the ease of traffic flow (as via G' said), it's for safety concerns as well, Error.... having a higher/increased number of bus stops before the light (especially in high density/commercial areas, increases the high risk factor for accidents... err, lawsuits...

 

....Which the MTA is VERY anal about preventing.

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I'm glad B35 jumped in...I was certain you knew about the B35s bus stop at Church/Utica...the Sunset Park-bound stop used to be before the light...around 2005 or so it was moved after the light.

 

There's a bus stop,or bus stops rather, that are quite odd...Saint George-bound S62/S92 Limiteds make a stop at Richmond Avenue before the light, then make ANOTHER stop at Richmond Avenue after the light...I find that type strange to a large degree.

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Having a stop on the near side of the intersection can often block a right-turn lane, which can cause an unsafe situation with other vehicles trying to pass the bus on the left and then make an immediate right turn in front of the bus.

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I'm glad B35 jumped in...I was certain you knew about the B35s bus stop at Church/Utica...the Sunset Park-bound stop used to be before the light...around 2005 or so it was moved after the light.

 

There's a bus stop,or bus stops rather, that are quite odd...Saint George-bound S62/S92 Limiteds make a stop at Richmond Avenue before the light, then make ANOTHER stop at Richmond Avenue after the light...I find that type strange to a large degree.

 

I remember when the SB B44 @ church av stopped right in front of that carvel (which is now a bank NOBODY goes in).... now of course, it stops across the street; adjacent the mcdonalds... which easily benefits ppl coming off the (2)(5) xferring to the B44...

Never quite understood why people make that xfer, but I have a theory....

 

Anyway, I'm tryna think of a bus stop that has ever been moved from the far side of a traffic light, to the near side of the traffic light...

 

So far, can't do it...

 

 

 

Having a stop on the near side of the intersection can often block a right-turn lane, which can cause an unsafe situation with other vehicles trying to pass the bus on the left and then make an immediate right turn in front of the bus.

Yep, you just added to my point... thanks for bringing that up.

 

Since they're putting these bike lanes all over the place here in NYC, in turn, they've also added turning lanes on some roads that don't necessarily need em.....

 

(the one that pisses me off the most in my area here, is the right turn lane they put on the SW corner of Church/Flatbush... and the ONLY reason they did that shit, was to scare off (and to have a justifiable reason to fine) the dollar cab drivers that used to "layover" & pick up riders, adjacent that church/cemetery)

 

^^ I'm not believing any other reason anyone claims as to why that particular turn lane was added, all of a sudden.

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LIB is covered in those stops before the light. On one hand, it's easier for bus operators to discharge passengers if they're at a red. If it's green and there are passengers there, it can hang the bus up and waste time.

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You bring up a good point. That's why I think stop zones, especially at traffic lights & intersections would help. A stop zone would be an area where buses could legally drop-off/pick-up folks. It would be bound on one end by an (MTA)(NYCT) sign on a poll or post & the other end by the bus stop with poll with map/schedule & hopefully a shelter.

 

IE: A stop zone at Victory & Richmond could go from in front of McDonald's to the actual stop stop in front of that huge Dunkin Donuts.

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Most of Staten Island's buses stop before the red light unlike the other boros.

 

I think it is about 50/50 as far as buses making stops before and after the traffic light.

 

I'm glad B35 jumped in...I was certain you knew about the B35s bus stop at Church/Utica...the Sunset Park-bound stop used to be before the light...around 2005 or so it was moved after the light.

 

There's a bus stop,or bus stops rather, that are quite odd...Saint George-bound S62/S92 Limiteds make a stop at Richmond Avenue before the light, then make ANOTHER stop at Richmond Avenue after the light...I find that type strange to a large degree.

 

I think they have a similar set up in other areas where there are really wide streets that need to be crossed. For example, I think it is like that at Tremont Avenue/Grand Concourse (or one of the other intersections along the Grand Concourse)

 

I remember when the SB B44 @ church av stopped right in front of that carvel (which is now a bank NOBODY goes in).... now of course, it stops across the street; adjacent the mcdonalds... which easily benefits ppl coming off the (2)(5) xferring to the B44...

Never quite understood why people make that xfer, but I have a theory....

 

Anyway, I'm tryna think of a bus stop that has ever been moved from the far side of a traffic light, to the near side of the traffic light...

 

So far, can't do it...

 

 

 

 

Yep, you just added to my point... thanks for bringing that up.

 

Since they're putting these bike lanes all over the place here in NYC, in turn, they've also added turning lanes on some roads that don't necessarily need em.....

 

(the one that pisses me off the most in my area here, is the right turn lane they put on the SW corner of Church/Flatbush... and the ONLY reason they did that shit, was to scare off (and to have a justifiable reason to fine) the dollar cab drivers that used to "layover" & pick up riders, adjacent that church/cemetery)

 

^^ I'm not believing any other reason anyone claims as to why that particular turn lane was added, all of a sudden.

 

Do they transfer there to increase the chance of getting a seat?

 

You bring up a good point. That's why I think stop zones, especially at traffic lights & intersections would help. A stop zone would be an area where buses could legally drop-off/pick-up folks. It would be bound on one end by an (MTA)(NYCT) sign on a poll or post & the other end by the bus stop with poll with map/schedule & hopefully a shelter.

 

IE: A stop zone at Victory & Richmond could go from in front of McDonald's to the actual stop stop in front of that huge Dunkin Donuts.

 

What some drivers will do is, if they're stopped at a red light, they'll discharge the passengers they have, and then when the light turns green, they'll cross the intersection to pick up waiting passengers.

 

On the S44 coming home from school sometimes, the driver will sometimes stop on the NW corner of Morningstar Road/Forest Avenue, discharge the students (it is a tripper), and then bypass the actual bus stop at Richmond Avenue/Forest Avenue, at the other side of the intersection. There is always another tripper (or a regular S44) behind the tripper, so the bus driver does that to save time.

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On 3 Avenue and 149 Street, the Bx19s Manhattan bound stop was before the light. I remember Bx19s held up there for a long time since a lot of people would get on while the light was green, then once the bus was about to depart the stop, the light was red. Then more people would get on the bus at the red light. The stop was moved after the light.

 

Another example is the northbound M10 at 125 Street. Around 2005, it was before the light.

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I'm glad B35 jumped in...I was certain you knew about the B35s bus stop at Church/Utica...the Sunset Park-bound stop used to be before the light...around 2005 or so it was moved after the light.

 

There's a bus stop,or bus stops rather, that are quite odd...Saint George-bound S62/S92 Limiteds make a stop at Richmond Avenue before the light, then make ANOTHER stop at Richmond Avenue after the light...I find that type strange to a large degree.

 

There's also the S53 at Sand Lane & Hylan Blvd where it stops before the light and right after the light.

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Do they transfer there to increase the chance of getting a seat?

 

Possibly, but I don't think that's one of the main reasons at all....

 

 

The nostrand av line, heading towards flatbush av (especially during the rush, but not only limited to the rush hour) tends to get congested south of sterling...

 

Not uncommon to see a train sitting at church, look ahead & see a train in the distance stalled at beverly, and see a train in the distance (in the other direction) stalled at winthrop.... and if a train is stalled at beverly, it pretty much means there's one @ newkirk, awaiting to pull into flatbush.....

^^ Luckily, my stop IS church (whenever a blue moon appears & I do decide to take the (2) home), so it's not a problem for me... but I've long seen people that's been in the same subway car as me, get off & go run to the bus.... which is another thing..

It's probably un-intentional, but the bus (B44) is almost always right there when ppl. are coming up out the subway... then again, B44 runs like wildfire in that direction anyway, so the chances of it happening are much more greater....

 

to help ease congestion, that's why they have some (5)'s head out to Utica....

 

Regular riders realize the congestion & feel like they're better off taking the 44...

Why church av though.... well, guess they can kill two birds w/ one stone... if they have any shoppin to do, or are just hungry or whatever, they can hit up the mickey d's, little ceasars, that west indian restaurant across from the golden krust , as well as the golden krust itself, etc (usually the younger folks do this... the older folks just go directly to the bus/stop).... plus church is a LTD stop on the 44 (whereas sterling st, winthrop, and president on the subway, don't "directly" link up to LTD stops on the 44), which doesn't limit their options to just 44 locals....

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#1 the stops after the light allows the b/o to be able to pull away from a stop easier in almost any traffic conditions

#2 it allows the b/o to pull completely into the stop without the ass end of the bus blocking traffic

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Having a stop on the near side of the intersection can often block a right-turn lane, which can cause an unsafe situation with other vehicles trying to pass the bus on the left and then make an immediate right turn in front of the bus.

 

#1 the stops after the light allows the b/o to be able to pull away from a stop easier in almost any traffic conditions

#2 it allows the b/o to pull completely into the stop without the ass end of the bus blocking traffic

 

Best combination of answers from driver's point of view. Pulling squarely into a stop is more difficult before the intersection as you have to rely on a long view thru your mirror to be sure you clear the last parked vehicle when cutting in to the stop. While it is true that pulling away from the stop is easier from there than when you are pulling away from a stop on the far side of the intersection...you are right there in front to be sure to clear the parked vehicle in front of you, and you don't have to worry about an impatiient motorist trying to scoot around you and make a right turn.

 

From a passenger standpoint, I would say it's a toss-up. It is frustrating when you have to wait at a red light, only to have to stop again for the bus stop, but on the other hand, it would be frustrating to stop at a green light for the bus stop, be ready to pull away only to see the light turn red just then.

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Having a stop on the near side of the intersection can often block a right-turn lane, which can cause an unsafe situation with other vehicles trying to pass the bus on the left and then make an immediate right turn in front of the bus.

 

 

That's one reason why NYCDOT and community boards prefer bus stops at the far side of the intersection. The others are...

 

Stop length

With a far side stop, the bus can use the width of the intersection to maneuver into the curb lane, so the stop can be just a little longer than the bus. A near side stop needs at least 30 additional feet so the bus can get to the curb; that extra length takes away metered parking.

 

Pedestrian safety

At a near side stop, the crosswalk is directly in front of the bus, so people tend to walk around the bus and can be injured by vehicles passing the bus.

 

 

The key exception to the "far side" rule is under elevated structures whose support columns are in the street. In such cases, a near side stop is preferred so that the rear of the bus doesn't block the intersection.

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Generally speaking stop before the light makes right turns more difficult (the Throgs Neck/east bound Bx40/42 stop near me is before a traffic light and I always have to make sure a customer doesn't bust out from in front the bus when I'm driving, or the bus doesn't decide to take off at that very moment. The westbound stop is after the light. But that line uses artics and multiple regular sized before the artics (and were prone to bunching back then) so but stop size may be an issue. Two artics can safely curb at both the stops. A traffic flow issue I guess.

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