Hilton Garage Is Starting To Get The Nabi's

[busdude2]

Because before I left NJT in 2010, the Neoplans (At least in Fairview) were starting to get in bad shape. Problems starting them up, VERY slow up the hills, and some were starting to breakdown. I saw more MCI's on the 159 than Neo's, which was shocking since whenever a 159 was on a MCI, no one wanted to take it. Personally, I love the 156/159 on a MCI. One way in, one way out. Just not during the rush......then there's issues.

 

The Nova B's WERE scheduled to be deactivated by 2012 or no later than Summer 2013, from what I remember NJT Officials in Newark told me, but that could of been changed.

 

As it related to transit buses, I did some numbers:

 

In total, there are 841 Nova's (A and in existence.

 

2601-2775 (175 buses Nova A)

1000-1254, 1262-1576 (570 buses Nova

2501-2580 (80 buses Nova B 30')

4001-4003 (3 buses Nova B Hybrid Mercer County)

1577-1582 (6 buses Nova B)

1583-1589 (7 buses Nova B)

 

The NABI order is 1,184 buses, including the 39 NABI 30' that are being ordered.

 

That leaves 343 buses extra. Minus the 124 Metro D's that are retired or will be retired, thus leaving 229 buses left over. The only thing I can think of that might be of some issue was the 409 Metro B's that were retired in 2010. That leaves a gap of 190 buses when I add the Metro & Nova's up, which comes up to 1,374 buses. The Nabi order is 1,184. Why is there a shortchange of 190 buses? I gotta give DJ credit. There is a missing amount of buses after the order. I thought NJT was gonna order 1300+ but I guess that changed........

 

But a lot of Nabi's replaced Flxs so your numbers are off by quite a bit.

[SirJokaPlaya]

But a lot of Nabi's replaced Flxs so your numbers are off by quite a bit.

 

How you figure? If you add up all the Flex and Nova's, and you minus that by the NABI order, NJT is gonna need more buses.

[D.J.]

But a lot of Nabi's replaced Flxs so your numbers are off by quite a bit.

 

ok start at 5800 (the first one to replace a NovaBus RTS "A") and count up to 6350 and see how many RTS "Bs" you can get out of that...

[SirJokaPlaya]

Well, I was counting up the exact NABI order (Including the 30 footers) Minus the Entire fleet of Metro's (B & D) and Nova's (A & . And I had to dig up some further research, so I got my old NJT Training book as well as look at Dave Mackey's NJT roster site http://www.davemackey.com/njt/roster.html

Now, this is based on the NJT manual that I kept when I was in training, which listed the amount of Metro's and Nova's were ordered.

 

The CURRENT NABI Order: 1,184

Minus

Metro B's (3000 - 3280, 1700 - 1726, 3500 - 3605): 414 (770)

Metro D's (1750 - 1977; 3700 - 3792): 319 (451)

Nova A's (2601 - 2775): 174 (277)

Nova B's (1001 - 1570, 2501 - 2580 [30'], 1577 - 1589, 4001 - 4003): 666 (-389)

 

There's a gap of 389 buses that will be needed, unless NJT is gonna change some of the route to use MCI's (Like they did with the 181 at Meadowlands, now a MCI line where it used to be anything except a MCI, but that's not a significant change). Unless my math is wrong, that's the numbers I got.

 

On a lighter note, is NJT Cursing the people? 666?!?!?! Someone breakout the Iron Maiden!

lol

[MiXxDiDdY]

"Perhaps they plan on keeping every Nova from 1300-1589 around for a couple more years, since most of those buses seem FAR from the end of their life cycle. However, Those 1000's-numbered crap-boxes that Coach USA use on the 24, 44, and 31, as well as some of the Red/Tan Novas and some of those Market St. buses in the 1100's need to be replaced ASAP. The only Nova B's from 1000-1299 kept in decent shape are the Middlesex County routes ran by Academy. "

[mtattrain]

"Perhaps they plan on keeping every Nova from 1300-1589 around for a couple more years, since most of those buses seem FAR from the end of their life cycle. However, Those 1000's-numbered crap-boxes that Coach USA use on the 24, 44, and 31, as well as some of the Red/Tan Novas and some of those Market St. buses in the 1100's need to be replaced ASAP. The only Nova B's from 1000-1299 kept in decent shape are the Middlesex County routes ran by Academy. "

 

Also they should consider to rehab or retire any RTS-06s that still have a flipdot sign.

[SirJokaPlaya]

Rehab, sure. Retire? Nah. All because they have a flip sign? Call me crazy but I love those flipdots better than the LCD signs. I wish they had gold colored flip dots. I just like the way they look. Could you imagine one of the NABI signs breaking down and all was available was one of the big signs from a Metro D? Sweet I know, that's wishful thinking, but still, I'd love to see it! These are pics I took when I was driving and when I was chilling with my friends on my way to work and from work at times. Nothing against advancing technology, but I just like the way it looks. Crisp, clean, and doesn't short out like the LCD ones. I seen the newer NABI's with the LCD ones and some are horrible.

 

[busdude2]

Well, I was counting up the exact NABI order (Including the 30 footers) Minus the Entire fleet of Metro's (B & D) and Nova's (A & . And I had to dig up some further research, so I got my old NJT Training book as well as look at Dave Mackey's NJT roster site http://www.davemackey.com/njt/roster.html

Now, this is based on the NJT manual that I kept when I was in training, which listed the amount of Metro's and Nova's were ordered.

 

The CURRENT NABI Order: 1,184

Minus

Metro B's (3000 - 3280, 1700 - 1726, 3500 - 3605): 414 (770)

Metro D's (1750 - 1977; 3700 - 3792): 319 (451)

Nova A's (2601 - 2775): 174 (277)

Nova B's (1001 - 1570, 2501 - 2580 [30'], 1577 - 1589, 4001 - 4003): 666 (-389)

 

There's a gap of 389 buses that will be needed, unless NJT is gonna change some of the route to use MCI's (Like they did with the 181 at Meadowlands, now a MCI line where it used to be anything except a MCI, but that's not a significant change). Unless my math is wrong, that's the numbers I got.

 

On a lighter note, is NJT Cursing the people? 666?!?!?! Someone breakout the Iron Maiden!

lol

 

Your numbers sound right to me. They will need more buses to replace all of the Nova's.

[553 Bridgeton]

Those flipdots are crap. The orange lcds are much better and you can see them better in the bright sun.

[Mikan Wilhelm]

Those flipdots are crap. The orange lcds are much better and you can see them better in the bright sun.

 

so agreed haha i was never a fan of the green colored lights since i sometimes would see a bus coming and i stick stick out my hand to signal the driver to stop and come to find out its not even the one you wanted since you can't tell ahead of time if its the one you wanna get on or not lol that always pissed me off since it made me look like a idiot

 

Atleast the orange LCD's fixed that B)

[MiXxDiDdY]

so agreed haha i was never a fan of the green colored lights since i sometimes would see a bus coming and i stick stick out my hand to signal the driver to stop and come to find out its not even the one you wanted since you can't tell ahead of time if its the one you wanna get on or not lol that always pissed me off since it made me look like a idiot

 

Atleast the orange LCD's fixed that B)

 

Haha i know how that is. The flipdot green signs on the Coach USA ONEbus routes (24, 31, 44) are hardly visible even at nighttime. Smh. Thats why i cant wait until they start using NABIs on those routes (or at least replace the flipdots with orange LED like most of the other Novas). Cause the Novas used on those routes are in horrible shape anyways.

[Mikan Wilhelm]

Haha i know how that is. The flipdot green signs on the Coach USA ONEbus routes (24, 31, 44) are hardly visible even at nighttime. Smh. Thats why i cant wait until they start using NABIs on those routes (or at least replace the flipdots with orange LED like most of the other Novas). Cause the Novas used on those routes are in horrible shape anyways.

 

so agreed on 2 occasions i saw that it said 978 or 979 on the sides of the 31 and im like ok? they don't run those routes anymore lmao

[SirJokaPlaya]

Man......LOL. I'm the only young dude that likes the flipdots. LOL. I even have signatures that are flipdots. I'm getting no love here. LOL

[Mikan Wilhelm]

Man......LOL. I'm the only young dude that likes the flipdots. LOL. I even have signatures that are flipdots. I'm getting no love here. LOL

 

well i like it since i can see it from my laptop lmao!

[MiXxDiDdY]

so agreed on 2 occasions i saw that it said 978 or 979 on the sides of the 31 and im like ok? they don't run those routes anymore lmao

 

LOL wait so the sides and the front had two totally different route numbers?! Haha if so that's hilarious and pathetic at the same time. lol

 

The only thing I like about flipdots is the way it looks when it "flips" thru the destination. Cause with the LED signs, it only "flashes". I hope y'all know what im talking about cause my description wasn't the best.

[Mikan Wilhelm]

LOL wait so the sides and the front had two totally different route numbers?! Haha if so that's hilarious and pathetic at the same time. lol

 

The only thing I like about flipdots is the way it looks when it "flips" thru the destination. Cause with the LED signs, it only "flashes". I hope y'all know what im talking about cause my description wasn't the best.

 

its very true i know what i saw haha :cool:

 

and i know what you mean

[Mikan Wilhelm]

ok i know this is random though since it deals with the 25 and its from the Hilton Garage and all i thought i should just mention it here instead

 

ok well i know yall will think im crazy but while i was in Irvington a little while ago waiting for the 90 to go home going in the other direction to Irvington Terminal and passed that onwards i saw a nova rts 1514 coming and stopped in front of the supermarket to let people off and get on to most likely and im like ok wtf? never would i had thought i would see that around there let alone drop off/pick up passengers.

 

And what made it more crazy as it pulled off i saw the back of it and i saw 25 which had me even more surprised lmao and i know there was no way it was a mistake i know what i saw

[The Real]

But a lot of Nabi's replaced Flxs so your numbers are off by quite a bit.

 

Actually, Nova RTS "A" buses have been getting deactivated here and there since the low 5600s starting coming in. There was at least 15 Nova As replaced before 5800 was even fabricated in Anniston.

 

Then you have to account for the 12 Nova Bs that met an early demise. SirJoka is correct. Count for Count.

 

A lot of the METRO B suburbans were displaced by MCI D4500s (7100 and 9000-Series). The stragglers (less than 100) we replaced in the first 100 NABI Suburbans. There was/is roughly 1,250 buses that needed to be replaced between the remaining Metro B Transits, Metro B Suburbans, Metro D Transits, Metro D Suburbans and Novas. With 1,184 NABIs on order (including the NABI 31LFWs), plus subtracting buses no longer needed due to service cuts, there is exactly enough NABIs to replace what was scheduled to be replaced, bus for bus.

[mtattrain]

Actually, Nova RTS "A" buses have been getting deactivated here and there since the low 5600s starting coming in. There was at least 15 Nova As replaced before 5800 was even fabricated in Anniston.

 

Then you have to account for the 12 Nova Bs that met an early demise. SirJoka is correct. Count for Count.

 

A lot of the METRO B suburbans were displaced by MCI D4500s (7100 and 9000-Series). The stragglers (less than 100) we replaced in the first 100 NABI Suburbans. There was/is roughly 1,250 buses that needed to be replaced between the remaining Metro B Transits, Metro B Suburbans, Metro D Transits, Metro D Suburbans and Novas. With 1,184 NABIs on order (including the NABI 31LFWs), plus subtracting buses no longer needed due to service cuts, there is exactly enough NABIs to replace what was scheduled to be replaced, bus for bus.

 

That makes sense. It's just like saying that 3 NABIs replaced a bunch of RTSs and Metro-Ds in A&C Transit, subtracting some RT802N RTS-06s.

[Mikan Wilhelm]

ok well now were at 5831 at first i thought it was 5828 since thats the one i took to downtown on the 1-Penn Station then when i returned to my surprise i saw the 5831 on the 1

[MarkD329]

Well, I was counting up the exact NABI order (Including the 30 footers) Minus the Entire fleet of Metro's (B & D) and Nova's (A & . And I had to dig up some further research, so I got my old NJT Training book as well as look at Dave Mackey's NJT roster site http://www.davemackey.com/njt/roster.html

Now, this is based on the NJT manual that I kept when I was in training, which listed the amount of Metro's and Nova's were ordered.

 

The CURRENT NABI Order: 1,184

Minus

Metro B's (3000 - 3280, 1700 - 1726, 3500 - 3605): 414 (770)

Metro D's (1750 - 1977; 3700 - 3792): 319 (451)

Nova A's (2601 - 2775): 174 (277)

Nova B's (1001 - 1570, 2501 - 2580 [30'], 1577 - 1589, 4001 - 4003): 666 (-389)

 

There's a gap of 389 buses that will be needed, unless NJT is gonna change some of the route to use MCI's (Like they did with the 181 at Meadowlands, now a MCI line where it used to be anything except a MCI, but that's not a significant change). Unless my math is wrong, that's the numbers I got.

 

 

 

Most likely, the contractors [with the exception of Academy], Roach USA, and the Jersey City Mom-and-Pops will have to live with the Novas for a few years longer since the primary fleet being replaced is NJTBO's fleet. If these operators want their Novas replaced with NABIs [or maybe low floor buses..we could dream about that!] they better hope that NJT could convince Gov. Jabba-the Hutt to give them money so they could buy the buses.

 

For some odd reason, when NJT announced the contract with NABI, I thought there were gonna be around 1455 buses. Somewhere along the line that was cut to 1184.

[SirJokaPlaya]

Another factor that I didn't place in my totals were the amount that Coach and M&W were getting. I forgot those guys got NABI's. Honestly, and this might sound harsh, but before NJT give those guys any buses, maybe NJT should of checked to see if they were gonna have enough buses to take care of the fleet before helping their contracted brothers (Coach/Academy/M&W) since the buses are NJT owned.

[SirJokaPlaya]

Well, here's a development:

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/nj_transit_to_purchase_more_th.html

 

NJ Transit to purchase more than 150 new buses

 

NJ Transit is spending nearly $69 million to buy 158 new buses for its aging fleet, over the objections of a rider who thought the agency erred by getting standard diesel buses instead of low-floor or hybrid models.

 

"The trend seems to be toward low-floor buses — that are easy for people in wheelchairs and other people with disabilities to board — and hybrid buses," said legally blind bus rider David Peter Alan, who also chairs the Lackawanna Coalition rail group.

 

NJ Transit officials didn’t disagree, but said a hybrid costs more and a low-floor bus seats five fewer passengers than a standard bus, which can seat people over the wheel wells.

 

With some trip times longer than an hour, that extra capacity is vital, said Jim Gigantino, vice president and general manager of bus operations for NJ Transit, which has a bus fleet of more than 1,100.

 

"Seat availability is one of the things that our customers tell us is most important," Gigantino said.

 

Standard 40-foot diesel buses, costing slightly less than $435,000 each, can seat 42 passengers, while low-floor buses seat 37 and hybrids cost at least $65,000 more per vehicle.

 

The transit agency will be using low-floor buses in Morris County and the Atlantic City area, and Alan urged NJ Transit’s board of directors to delay buying new standard buses until it could evaluate how well those buses work.

 

The standard buses meet Americans with Disabilities Act requirements and fall under stricter 2010 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency diesel emissions regulations.

 

"At this stage, the exhaust that comes out of the buses or the trucks in 2010 engines is cleaner than the air going in," said board Vice Chairman Myron "Mike" Shevell.

 

The board unanimously approved the contract for the buses with North American Bus Industries of Anniston, Ala.

 

Also today, the board approved a five-year contract with Allvision of New York City in which the company pays NJ Transit $16.3 million to broker the transit agency’s billboard advertising.

 

A separate item in which NJ Transit was going to receive $53.3 million over five years from Titan Outdoor advertising to manage the rest of the transit agency’s advertising — including naming rights of transit stations and advertising on the front of locomotives — was pulled from the agenda over a protest by a bidder that offered nearly $12 million more than Titan.

 

NJ Transit executive director Jim Weinstein said he hoped the protest would be resolved in time for next month’s meeting.

 

 

OK...........is this in ADDITION to the 1184 that is here/on the way?!? Now I'm confused.

[Mikan Wilhelm]

Since when did the Hilton start using a Nabi from Big Tree on the 25?

 

while i was on ferry street this morning on the 1 coming from Wilson ave was the 25 going to 43rd street and i happen to look at the number on that 25 and i saw 5798 im like "wtf?" lmao and i have to admit i was not expecting to see that i would of thought more like either 5400's or 5800's instead.

[Pablo M 201]

Since when did the Hilton start using a Nabi from Big Tree on the 25?

 

while i was on ferry street this morning on the 1 coming from Wilson ave was the 25 going to 43rd street and i happen to look at the number on that 25 and i saw 5798 im like "wtf?" lmao and i have to admit i was not expecting to see that i would of thought more like either 5400's or 5800's instead.

5798 could be a Hilton bus, unless it had Big Tree markings or you or someone else has seen it on a Big Tree route.