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Petition started to restore lost bus service in Mid and Southern Brooklyn


Via Garibaldi 8

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So they could run more X17s and I would have to think that the X17 is pretty cost effective, seeing that it is one of the top five busiest express buses in the system. The X30 could actually be re-routed to go over the Bayonne Bridge after say Decker Avenue. More X42s could be run too since those fill up pretty fast and fewer of them run because the X30 is there. And did you forget about the projects and run down areas in Mariners Harbor???

In sum, I see no need to axe the BXM4 along the Grand Concourse. Even if it is 10 people, that still adds up and helps the numbers on that line overall.

 

 

I could argue that my commute to West Brighton, along with my fellow commuters' commute in the neighbourhood adjacent to mine in the affluent Randall Manor would be faster if we didn't have to go through the poorer Mariners Harbor and Graniteville, so I don't see the difference. :)

 

1) The extra cost of running extra X17s during rush hour would make it less cost-efficient, not more, since rush hour service costs more to provide.

 

2) You mean those projects (and run down areas) that aren't near Forest Avenue? And did you forget about the people living in the area that ride the X30 because it is the fastest route in the area (and, while they aren't like the people in West Brighton, they are middle class and can afford to pay $50 per week)?

 

Maybe it is because a lot of Staten Island is nicer than those areas (or, to be honest, maybe it is because there are more minorities in that area), but Graniteville is truly "middle class". Anything above that is upper-middle class.

 

It is common for Staten Islanders who don't live near there to think that the whole area is a dump, but that isn't true: Everywhere south of Forest Avenue is fine, and even much of the area north of Forest Avenue is fine (like I said, it is good until you get to the area around the North Shore Railroad ROW)

 

3) But if the BxM4 were routed off of the Grand Concourse, and became faster, it would become faster and

a) cheaper to operate

B) more attractive to riders in the northern section

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You mean those projects (and run down areas) that aren't near Forest Avenue? And did you forget about the people that live in the area that actually ride the X30?

 

I didn't forget about them, but they're a minority. Like I said, most folks drive to that park and ride, so they could just drive over to Decker Avenue, which would be the last stop and then down Forest and to the Bayonne Bridge from there. Not much different from what you're proposing for BXM4 riders. Those who absolutely MUST have the X30 can take the S48 to the X30. :)

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I didn't forget about them, but they're a minority. Like I said, most folks drive to that park and ride, so they could just drive over to Decker Avenue, which would be the last stop and then down Forest and to the Bayonne Bridge from there. Not much different from what you're proposing for BXM4 riders. Those who absolutely MUST have the X30 can take the S48 to the X30. :)

 

But you're forgetting (or refuse to acknowledge) that there are a lot more X30 riders along Forest Avenue than there are BxM4 riders along the Grand Concourse. There would be a lot more riders on the S48/S98, which are already crowded as is before they reach Richmond Avenue (there is a lot of turnover at that stop, as students from Mariners' Harbor and Arlington get off and transfer to southbound buses along Richmond Avenue, and then a new crowd of people replaces them going to St. George, but the point is that they would still be crowded onto the S48/S98)

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But you're forgetting (or refuse to acknowledge) that there are a lot more X30 riders along Forest Avenue than there are BxM4 riders along the Grand Concourse. There would be a lot more riders on the S48/S98, which are already crowded as is before they reach Richmond Avenue (there is a lot of turnover at that stop, as students from Mariners' Harbor and Arlington get off and transfer to southbound buses along Richmond Avenue, and then a new crowd of people replaces them going to St. George, but the point is that they would still be crowded onto the S48/S98)

 

save ur breath it is obvious that this guy has no clue about transit at all there is a little thing called customer satisfaction which is just as important as bus service. ur basically talking to a wall here as sense and logic do not exist in this guy's world. Heck If he ran NJT routes may the god be with NJT ppl as he would reduce express service and make it local pissing ppl off like crazy. BXM4 on grand concourse is like having the 197 make local stops in union city!!!! Slow and annoying. I suggest you giveup this argument as we are clearly making sense here. Just another guy who screams at every service cut even if the cut eliminates waste. that is what #8 is. I already gave up trying to talk sense here. Heck he probably will fight to keep a bus with say 5 ppl on it that duplicates.

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But you're forgetting (or refuse to acknowledge) that there are a lot more X30 riders along Forest Avenue than there are BxM4 riders along the Grand Concourse. There would be a lot more riders on the S48/S98, which are already crowded as is before they reach Richmond Avenue (there is a lot of turnover at that stop, as students from Mariners' Harbor and Arlington get off and transfer to southbound buses along Richmond Avenue, and then a new crowd of people replaces them going to St. George, but the point is that they would still be crowded onto the S48/S98)

 

LOL... You act like the X30 goes down some other path besides Forest Avenue. Forest Avenue IS the main corridor for the bus, so obviously there would be more. It's just natural. The point is it could be cut back if need be for those handful of riders in Mariners Harbor, just like you're proposing with the BMX4, especially since there are other alternatives.

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save ur breath it is obvious that this guy has no clue about transit at all there is a little thing called customer satisfaction which is just as important as bus service. ur basically talking to a wall here as sense and logic do not exist in this guy's world. Heck If he ran NJT routes may the god be with NJT ppl as he would reduce express service and make it local pissing ppl off like crazy. BXM4 on grand concourse is like having the 197 make local stops in union city!!!! Slow and annoying. I suggest you giveup this argument as we are clearly making sense here. Just another guy who screams at every service cut even if the cut eliminates waste. that is what #8 is. I already gave up trying to talk sense here. Heck he probably will fight to keep a bus with say 5 ppl on it that duplicates.

 

Yeah, the same guy that can't even write a sentence properly. I'm very impressed. LOL

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LOL... You act like the X30 goes down some other path besides Forest Avenue. Forest Avenue IS the main corridor for the bus, so obviously there would be more. It's just natural. The point is it could be cut back if need be for those handful of riders in Mariners Harbor, just like you're proposing with the BMX4, especially since there are other alternatives.

 

I meant west of the MLK Expressway. There are more riders (or more riders per mile) along that portion of Forest Avenue compared to the BxM4 along the southern portion of the Grand Concourse.

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I meant west of the MLK Expressway. There are more riders (or more riders per mile) along that portion of Forest Avenue compared to the BxM4 along the southern portion of the Grand Concourse.

 

Yeah and like I said, a lot of those riders are from the park and ride. Yesterday I took the X30 to and from work and I saw just how many people jumped in a car. Those who didn't have a car walked to get picked up, which left a handful of people actually getting off and walking within the area. If you eliminate those folks and focused solely on those who walk to the X30 in that area, you could certainly make the argument that it is comparable to the number of folks using the BXM4 along the Grand Concourse. While Mariners Harbor is more urban, it is still in Staten Island, so more folks will be driving than walking and you know that for a fact.

 

Therefore, the argument could be made that you could make the last stop Decker Ave where parking is available and the few that still need the X30 could take the S48 over or simply take the X12 or X17. A lot of folks use the X17 at the last stop anyway, infact often times more so that the X30.

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Yeah and like I said, a lot of those riders are from the park and ride. Yesterday I took the X30 to and from work and I saw just how many people jumped in a car. Those who didn't have a car walked to get picked up, which left a handful of people actually getting off and walking within the area. If you eliminate those folks and focused solely on those who walk to the X30 in that area, you could certainly make the argument that it is comparable to the number of folks using the BXM4 along the Grand Concourse. While Mariners Harbor is more urban, it is still in Staten Island, so more folks will be driving than walking and you know that for a fact.

 

Therefore, the argument could be made that you could make the last stop Decker Ave where parking is available and the few that still need the X30 could take the S48 over or simply take the X12 or X17. A lot of folks use the X17 at the last stop anyway, infact often times more so that the X30.

 

So you're telling me that at every stop, people were using cars to get home? Even at South Avenue/Forest Avenue and Forest Avenue/Richmond Avenue?

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So you're telling me that at every stop, people were using cars to get home? Even at South Avenue/Forest Avenue and Forest Avenue/Richmond Avenue?

 

You have to realize that a lot of the stops along the X30 have gas stations there or places where folks can park or get dropped off, so yes, many stops are like this. At Richmond Avenue, there's the Pathmark and other stores and there are plenty of spots to park there. Some of them will park right there by that Chinese restaurant. I've seen it at night when folks get off of the X30. At South and Forest there aren't tons of folks getting on in the morning. The most maybe 4 people, but coming home there's a gas station, so coming home I see some people get off and walk towards the condos but some will get in a car waiting there to pick them up. Same thing at the last stop where the X17 is in the morning. Another gas station there too, so you'll have folks dropped off right there or they'll wait and sit there until the X30 or X17 comes and then get out.

 

If there isn't a gas station, then there's a store with parking. Perfect example is there at Forest and Decker. Folks will use that to be dropped off for the X30. I think more folks are dropped off moreso in Mariners Harbor and Graniteville than in my neck of the woods in West Brighton because there are fewer park and rides where the bus stop is so close by. Remember that Graniteville and Mariners Harbor are far more urban than West Brighton is, but even so, because it is Staten Island, the emphasis is on parking.

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You have to realize that a lot of the stops along the X30 have gas stations there or places where folks can park or get dropped off, so yes, many stops are like this. At Richmond Avenue, there's the Pathmark and other stores and there are plenty of spots to park there. Some of them will park right there by that Chinese restaurant. I've seen it at night when folks get off of the X30. At South and Forest there aren't tons of folks getting on in the morning. The most maybe 4 people, but coming home there's a gas station, so coming home I see some people get off and walk towards the condos but some will get in a car waiting there to pick them up. Same thing at the last stop where the X17 is in the morning. Another gas station there too, so you'll have folks dropped off right there or they'll wait and sit there until the X30 or X17 comes and then get out.

 

If there isn't a gas station, then there's a store with parking. Perfect example is there at Forest and Decker. Folks will use that to be dropped off for the X30. I think more folks are dropped off moreso in Mariners Harbor and Graniteville than in my neck of the woods in West Brighton because there are fewer park and rides where the bus stop is so close by. Remember that Graniteville and Mariners Harbor are far more urban than West Brighton is, but even so, because it is Staten Island, the emphasis is on parking.

 

Pathmark is between Jewett Avenue and Decker Avenue. If you're thinking of ShopRite, that lot is usually full during the day (and I would be surprised if it was people parking for the express bus filling it up).

 

And those areas are more urban than West Brighton, but the difference isn't really that much. Remember: The only apartment buildings in the area are the Mariners' Harbor Houses and Arlington Terrace Apartments. Most of that area is townhouses and houses with smaller lot sizes, and there are areas of West Brighton that fit that description, around Forest Avenue.

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Pathmark is between Jewett Avenue and Decker Avenue. If you're thinking of ShopRite, that lot is usually full during the day.

 

Yeah, I meant ShopRite, but why do you think it's so full during the day?? That's why because people use those areas as park and rides. They're not supposed to but believe me they do it. And those who don't use those they use the sidestreets in areas without the "park and rides". Some of them get tickets, but a lot of them will try to park towards the front of the parking lot where it is quicker for them to get to their car and get out fast. Think about it. We're talking about express bus riders. You think that the majority of them are going to walk to the express bus?? Even I have thought about getting a car just to drive it to the express bus. Now granted, I'm not saying some of them don't walk, but believe me, plenty of them drive to the express bus.

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Yeah, I meant ShopRite, but why do you think it's so full during the day?? That's why because people use those areas as park and rides. They're not supposed to but believe me they do it. And those who don't use those they use the sidestreets in areas without the "park and rides". Some of them get tickets, but a lot of them will try to park towards to front of the parking lot where it is quicker for them to get to their car and get out fast. Think about it. We're talking about express bus riders. You think that the majority of them are going to walk to the express bus?? Even I have thought about getting a car just to drive it to the express bus. Now granted, I'm not saying some of them don't walk, but believe me, plenty of them drive to the express bus.

 

I guess it is possible that they are using it as a park-and-ride. It would be interesting to survey how many people park in the lot in the morning and walk over to the express bus stop. Maybe I'll try that one day just to satisfy my curiousity.

 

I do notice that, at the stop I get on, there aren't that many riders, but I do notice a lot of people walking from Christopher Lane (the SIE service road east of Richmond Avenue) to the bus stop, so it is possible that they parked along Christopher Lane.

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I guess it is possible that they are using it as a park-and-ride. It would be interesting to survey how many people park in the lot in the morning and walk over to the express bus stop.

 

You see a guy like me I'm younger, but most of the folks on the express bus are middle aged folks. Hell even I get sick of having to walk sometimes. Like today I wanted to take the X14 home, but I didn't feel like walking. My shortest walk from the X14 is uphill via Forest Avenue, while I can go downhill, but its a further walk and I do not feel like dealing with the local bus. Express bus riders generally do not deal with the local bus unless they absolutely have to. It's just one of those unwritten rules. They're two different worlds for one thing. Now I'm still in my 20s. Imagine a middle aged person who has a car on Staten Island and uses the express bus. Most of them are going to park their car somewhere unless the express bus is really close by like around the corner or something or in front of a condo. In that case there is no need for a car, which is the case with two stops along the X14 in the morning.

 

If there weren't so many damn hills on Staten Island, I think more folks would consider walking, but the hills become rather annoying rather quickly.

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You see a guy like me I'm younger, but most of the folks on the express bus are middle aged folks. Hell even I get sick of having to walk sometimes. Like today I wanted to take the X14 home, but I didn't feel like walking. My shortest walk from the X14 is uphill via Forest Avenue, while I can go downhill, but its a further walk and I do not feel like dealing with the local bus. Express bus riders generally do not deal with the local bus unless they absolutely have to. It's just one of those unwritten rules. They're two different worlds for one thing. Now I'm still in my 20s. Imagine a middle aged person who has a car on Staten Island and uses the express bus. Most of them are going to park their car somewhere unless the express bus is really close by like around the corner or something or in front of a condo. In that case there is no need for a car, which is the case with two stops along the X14 in the morning.

 

If there weren't so many damn hills on Staten Island, I think more folks would consider walking, but the hills become rather annoying rather quickly.

 

I've noticed that as well. For example, the X17 can be pretty slow along Richmond Avenue, due to the fact that there are people at every stop. If you caught the S89 (or even a reasonably empty S44 or S59), you'd probably be able to bypass 3 or 4 X17s. Even though the S89 has a similar type of clientele as express bus riders (business-type people going to Jersey City), they just don't do it.

 

There are plenty of areas where people drive to the express bus even when there aren't hills. I'm sure it happens a lot in the South Shore (just look at the cars parked at the ETC and by Arthur Kill Road/Veterans Road East)

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Yeah, the same guy that can't even write a sentence properly. I'm very impressed. LOL

 

dude give up you are beyond clueless about transit demand most of ur counter arguments to me and checkmate are weak and with little to no logic give it a rest.

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dude give up you are beyond clueless about transit demand most of ur counter arguments to me and checkmate are weak and with little to no logic give it a rest.

 

VG8 & I get into it at times, but if it's anyone on here (besides the guy typing this post) that elaborates on his opinions, it's him.... Just because he's disagreeable doesn't mean he lacks logic....

 

You on the other hand, get far too emotionally charged - That much is plain as day....

I mean damn, you deeming someone illogical is like RuPaul calling Dennis Rodman "weird"....

 

While you've mellowed out w/ your responses to me, I still *smh* when you come on here & convey your (and refer to them as) "master plans" as if it's some big covert, FBI type secret....

 

Seriously dunn, why do you do that?

You think anyone on here is gettin paid to post on this mahfu**a.....

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VG8 & I get into it at times, but if it's anyone on here (besides the guy typing this post) that elaborates on his opinions, it's him.... Just because he's disagreeable doesn't mean he lacks logic....

 

You on the other hand, get far too emotionally charged - That much is plain as day....

I mean damn, you deeming someone illogical is like RuPaul calling Dennis Rodman "weird"....

 

While you've mellowed out w/ your responses to me, I still *smh* when you come on here & convey your (and refer to them as) "master plans" as if it's some big covert, FBI type secret....

 

Seriously dunn, why do you do that?

You think anyone on here is gettin paid to post on this mahfu**a.....

err no but the thing is I have anaylzed several transit networks and plan on becoming a transit consultant or similar to route planning

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I can go one better. I'll just ignore your posts going forward. According to you, everyone is clueless about transit except for you of course. LOL

 

not exactly if that was the case I wouldnt ask questions I was referring only to u not anyone else buddy I am not the only one who is not clueless as others like shortline and checkmate and so on probably know more than me in terms of city centric bus lines while I am more regional and prefer to cut travel times like several of my suggestions

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VG8 & I get into it at times, but if it's anyone on here (besides the guy typing this post) that elaborates on his opinions, it's him.... Just because he's disagreeable doesn't mean he lacks logic....

 

You on the other hand, get far too emotionally charged - That much is plain as day....

I mean damn, you deeming someone illogical is like RuPaul calling Dennis Rodman "weird"....

 

While you've mellowed out w/ your responses to me, I still *smh* when you come on here & convey your (and refer to them as) "master plans" as if it's some big covert, FBI type secret....

 

Seriously dunn, why do you do that?

You think anyone on here is gettin paid to post on this mahfu**a.....

 

Right now, I am dying with laughter at your post. You are cold blooded.

 

The key here is FREE parking. The behavior is caused by the abundance of free parking as well as milkrun express bus routes. When bus routes take 40-45 minutes to reach the expressway, it creates a problem. People are taking the most frequent or fastest bus or the bus with seats instead of taking the bus in their neighborhood. I'm sure it creates a capacity allocation headache for the MTA.

 

On the 144, we used to pick up 50% of our passengers at two stops. The checkpoint had more park & ride passengers than walkups.

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Right now, I am dying with laughter at your post. You are cold blooded.

 

The key here is FREE parking. The behavior is caused by the abundance of free parking as well as milkrun express bus routes. When bus routes take 40-45 minutes to reach the expressway, it creates a problem. People are taking the most frequent or fastest bus or the bus with seats instead of taking the bus in their neighborhood. I'm sure it creates a capacity allocation headache for the MTA.

 

On the 144, we used to pick up 50% of our passengers at two stops. The checkpoint had more park & ride passengers than walkups.

 

ur right

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Right now, I am dying with laughter at your post. You are cold blooded.

 

The key here is FREE parking. The behavior is caused by the abundance of free parking as well as milkrun express bus routes. When bus routes take 40-45 minutes to reach the expressway, it creates a problem. People are taking the most frequent or fastest bus or the bus with seats instead of taking the bus in their neighborhood. I'm sure it creates a capacity allocation headache for the MTA.

 

On the 144, we used to pick up 50% of our passengers at two stops. The checkpoint had more park & ride passengers than walkups.

 

So what was the other stop, the ETC?

 

I think the X17J is one of those routes. It loops around the streets of the South Shore and then makes most stop along Richmond Avenue.

 

I think this problem could be solved by splitting the X17J. Buses could run every 10 minutes or so, and then go onto the WSE instead of going down Richmond Avenue. Riders in the South Shore see a slight decrease in service, but have a much faster ride, which more than makes up for it.

 

The headways along Richmond Avenue could be, say 7-8 minutes, so riders over here won't see that much of a benefit (except that buses will be slightly less crowded, so people might not have to let as many buses go by in the hopes of getting a seat)

 

I've always wondered why riders coming from the New Springville area would pass up S89s and get on X17Js when the S89 could bypass several X17Js making all stops along Richmond Avenue, giving them a faster ride.

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