Nassau County Exec Mangano & Islanders reach deal on new LI Coliseum pending Voter approval

[Shortline Bus]

Sure it is. The thing about Hockey in Canada is that when there's a game on, especially against a rival team, literally the entire city participates in the game in some way or another. This phenomenon doesn't really exist in the US except during playoff times for any sport. I also think Montreal would welcome a their old rivals back. The Battle of Quebec was a huge deal in the 70s and 80s.

 

 

Actually here in US the only regular season sporting event that comes close (HNIC is still bigger impact)is either Sunday Night (NBC) or Monday Night Football (ESPN).

Matter of fact, NBC's Sunday Night Football finished #2 in the US TV ratings behind only "American Idol 2011" for just ended 2010-11 season.

 

For mid size cities like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Denver, Green Bay, Wisc., etc. getting national/international TV attention when their teams host SNF or MNF games. So the NFL prime time games is a big deal to those other cities. However Tokemon you make a good point in most of US, in all '4' major leagues in North America, front page coverage on local papers/local tv outlets dont occur until their sports teams is in the playoffs.

 

As someone who been to Canada several times and has relatives in Toronto, I do know about HNIC. Matter of fact 'HNIC' is hard to compare to anything on US tv. Maybe the NFL or "American Idol' as most 'entertainment (scripted and reality) tv shows' in Canada are from the US.

 

I heard how big the rival between the Habs and Quebec was in the '80's? With that said, really can Quebec City handle a NHL team long term?

At least with the NHL returning to Winnipeg, it's I believe the 5th largest city in Canada.

 

Back to topic. Just saw on the news Mangano will now ask the private business community in '1 last effort' to help to bulid the new arena for Wang and the Islanders. In this economy good luck to Mr. Mangano.:eek:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Actually here in US the only regular season sporting event that comes close (HNIC is still bigger impact)is either Sunday Night (NBC) or Monday Night Football (ESPN).

Matter of fact, NBC's Sunday Night Football finished #2 in the US TV ratings behind only "American Idol 2011" for just ended 2010-11 season.

 

For mid size cities like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Denver, Green Bay, Wisc., etc. getting national/international TV attention when their teams host SNF or MNF games. So the NFL prime time games is a big deal to those other cities. However Tokemon you make a good point in most of US, in all '4' major leagues in North America, front page coverage on local papers/local tv outlets dont occur until their sports teams is in the playoffs.

 

As someone who been to Canada several times and has relatives in Toronto, I do know about HNIC. Matter of fact 'HNIC' is hard to compare to anything on US tv. Maybe the NFL or "American Idol' as most 'entertainment (scripted and reality) tv shows' in Canada are from the US.

 

I heard how big the rival between the Habs and Quebec was in the '80's? With that said, really can Quebec City handle a NHL team long term?

At least with the NHL returning to Winnipeg, it's I believe the 5th largest city in Canada.

 

Back to topic. Just saw on the news Mangano will now ask the private business community in '1 last effort' to help to bulid the new arena for Wang and the Islanders. In this economy good luck to Mr. Mangano.:eek:

 

 

I think Québec City can handle a NHL team long term, so long as the owner has deep pockets. That's the main reason for the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg. The group that owns the Jets is quite wealthy can sustain putting a respectable team on the ice so long as the fans continue coming to the games, so basically so long as you have a solid fan base and a rich owner who is committed to winning you can put a team just about anywhere in North America. The Thrashers had terrible fan support despite them playing good hockey for the past few seasons, so they had no choice but to move.

[SubwayGuy]

I think Québec City can handle a NHL team long term, so long as the owner has deep pockets. That's the main reason for the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg. The group that owns the Jets is quite wealthy can sustain putting a respectable team on the ice so long as the fans continue coming to the games, so basically so long as you have a solid fan base and a rich owner who is committed to winning you can put a team just about anywhere in North America. The Thrashers had terrible fan support despite them playing good hockey for the past few seasons, so they had no choice but to move.

 

It doesn't matter how much money they have.

 

Three things matter when supporting any sports franchise and three things ONLY:

-Size of area market (population)

-Size of media market (ie coverage and how much farther reaching exposure that media market can generate)

-Fan commitment to the sport

 

Winnipeg has 1 1/2 of the 3 things, which is enough to work (commitment, and a bit of a media market)

 

Quebec City only has 1, making it a stretch. It's a smaller market than Winnipeg which is already one of the smallest in the league. Media market is weak in Quebec because most is French language, so it won't reach the English speaking audience that follows the most of the rest of the NHL.

 

In all, I think Winnipeg will work.

[R68 Subway Car]

People forget that Nassau County has incredibly high taxes. I am not surprised at all that they shot down that arena. They will have to find a way to build that arena without screwing with an already overtaxed population. Either way, the Islanders need to get out of that dump.

[Tokkemon]

It doesn't matter how much money they have.

 

Three things matter when supporting any sports franchise and three things ONLY:

-Size of area market (population)

-Size of media market (ie coverage and how much farther reaching exposure that media market can generate)

-Fan commitment to the sport

 

Winnipeg has 1 1/2 of the 3 things, which is enough to work (commitment, and a bit of a media market)

 

Quebec City only has 1, making it a stretch. It's a smaller market than Winnipeg which is already one of the smallest in the league. Media market is weak in Quebec because most is French language, so it won't reach the English speaking audience that follows the most of the rest of the NHL.

 

 

Wrong. Putting a team in Quebec would open up over 8 million Francophone Quebecers to a new media market. Plus, any Canadian hockey tends to be an absolute boon for Canada's Media. When it becomes a matter of national pride, Canadian media becomes one with supporting all Canada's hockey teams. And, Quebec City is larger than Winnipeg in terms of population. Fan commitment is ridiculously high in Canada to any hockey team, but especially in those two markets which have had old NHL teams before where nostalgia is high. So both have all three things you cited with the population being the only questionable one for both.

[Wallyhorse]

People forget that Nassau County has incredibly high taxes. I am not surprised at all that they shot down that arena. They will have to find a way to build that arena without screwing with an already overtaxed population. Either way, the Islanders need to get out of that dump.

 

They do have a few years, but what I think happens is the Islanders eventually move to the Barclays Center and share the arena with the Nets (and become the Brooklyn Islanders). While the new building is only supposed to hold 14,500 for hockey, I don't think the NHL will frown given the new building to former Atlanta Thrashers (now Winnipeg Jets) are moving to in Winnipeg only holds 15,003.

[Grand Concourse]

There's no need to rename the team. Brooklyn is part of Long Island. So NY Islanders can still apply to them despite being in Brooklyn.

And yes, I do agree that them moving there would be fine. Unless the team does really well, a 14k+ seating capacity is fine. Joining the Nets would be a greater use of that arena. Why build two arenas when one can house both teams? Plus with the LIRR, people can still get to Brooklyn from Nassau.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It doesn't matter how much money they have.

 

Three things matter when supporting any sports franchise and three things ONLY:

-Size of area market (population)

-Size of media market (ie coverage and how much farther reaching exposure that media market can generate)

-Fan commitment to the sport

 

Winnipeg has 1 1/2 of the 3 things, which is enough to work (commitment, and a bit of a media market)

 

Quebec City only has 1, making it a stretch. It's a smaller market than Winnipeg which is already one of the smallest in the league. Media market is weak in Quebec because most is French language, so it won't reach the English speaking audience that follows the most of the rest of the NHL.

 

In all, I think Winnipeg will work.

 

Actually money does matter. The Jets have rich owners and this will allow them to go out and spend a bit more than in the past. Let's remember that the old Jets back weren't that great of a team, but they still had the fan support, but a poor owner and couldn't get a new arena either, so yes, money does matter. Just look at the Buffalo Sabres. They've got a new owner with deep pockets and now suddenly that team looks like a contender now when previously the old owner had the wallet closed tight, hence they had very few offensive weapons. They made some big trades at the deadline and got some offensive weapons up front and some good two way defencemen on the blue line and they're suddenly favourites to go deep this coming season.

 

Rumors have it that Québec wants an NHL franchise again as they are in the stages of building a new hockey rink that would attract an NHL team. The main reason the Nordiques left was because they couldn't get a new arena there, so who knows.

[Grand Concourse]

Before they try to lure the Islanders there, there are several teams in the southern states [Florida etc] that would be more ideal to move as Shortline mentioned.

[R68 Subway Car]

There's no need to rename the team. Brooklyn is part of Long Island. So NY Islanders can still apply to them despite being in Brooklyn.

And yes, I do agree that them moving there would be fine. Unless the team does really well, a 14k+ seating capacity is fine. Joining the Nets would be a greater use of that arena. Why build two arenas when one can house both teams? Plus with the LIRR, people can still get to Brooklyn from Nassau.

Exactly. They can move in with the Nets and they can keep their name. Barclay's is a modern facility and will be light years better than the dump they play at now.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Before they try to lure the Islanders there, there are several teams in the southern states [Florida etc] that would be more ideal to move as Shortline mentioned.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The NHL has tried very hard to expand the sport in the South here in the U.S. and they haven't had that much success. Nashville is having a hard time as it is in a very small market making it hard to compete and they have not been having great turnouts buy way of attendance and thus the rumor is that the team may perhaps be on the move. Phoenix is in search of a new owner. Florida has played rather sh*tty hockey for some years now and has basically been a seller these past few years. Atlanta had a terrible fan base in terms of attendance and was forced to relocate to Winnipeg under new ownership. Dallas is also suffering from financial/owner issues just like Phoenix.

 

The only three real healthy teams are out in California (San Jose Sharks, Anaheim Ducks and Los Angeles Kings).

[Shortline Bus]

Dallas (not sure right now) was owned by crooked Owner Dan Hicks (same idiot owner who also own MLB's Texas club and gave AROD the infamous and insane overpaid $220 Million 10 year contract in 2002)who was trying to sell the team. Hicks just sold the Rangers to Nolan Ryan at end of last MLB season in 2010.

 

 

The Stars had among the best attendence in NHL for several years in the late '90's/early 2000's as being a Stanley Cup Winner in 1999 helped alot. Even now with a crappy team and trading fan favorite Mike Modano, they still have descent attendence.

Plus within 20 years, Dallas, Texas could be the 2nd or 3rd largest city/metro area in the US based on current Census data. DFW right now is on verge of overtaking Chicago for #3 media market in the country. Provided their next owner is ok with 'deep pockets' and good management, Dallas will be fine and should be a long term home for the NHL. Plus DFW is now a must have in having a team for TV puropses in the US.

 

Again I think Wang will sell the team.

 

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The NHL has tried very hard to expand the sport in the South here in the U.S. and they haven't had that much success. Nashville is having a hard time as it is in a very small market making it hard to compete and they have not been having great turnouts buy way of attendance and thus the rumor is that the team may perhaps be on the move. Phoenix is in search of a new owner. Florida has played rather sh*tty hockey for some years now and has basically been a seller these past few years. Atlanta had a terrible fan base in terms of attendance and was forced to relocate to Winnipeg under new ownership. Dallas is also suffering from financial/owner issues just like Phoenix.

 

The only three real healthy teams are out in California (San Jose Sharks, Anaheim Ducks and Los Angeles Kings).

[cotb16]

There's no need to rename the team. Brooklyn is part of Long Island. So NY Islanders can still apply to them despite being in Brooklyn.

And yes, I do agree that them moving there would be fine. Unless the team does really well, a 14k+ seating capacity is fine. Joining the Nets would be a greater use of that arena. Why build two arenas when one can house both teams? Plus with the LIRR, people can still get to Brooklyn from Nassau.

 

As much as the NY Islanders name making sense if they moved to Brooklyn, people in Brooklyn (especially Borough President Marty Markowitz and other pols) would request for the Islanders to become Brooklyn Islanders.

[SubwayGuy]

Wrong. Putting a team in Quebec would open up over 8 million Francophone Quebecers to a new media market. Plus, any Canadian hockey tends to be an absolute boon for Canada's Media. When it becomes a matter of national pride, Canadian media becomes one with supporting all Canada's hockey teams. And, Quebec City is larger than Winnipeg in terms of population. Fan commitment is ridiculously high in Canada to any hockey team, but especially in those two markets which have had old NHL teams before where nostalgia is high. So both have all three things you cited with the population being the only questionable one for both.

 

You mean like in the 90's, when Quebec City couldn't support a team, and it had to move to Colorado?

 

If Quebec City got a team it would be the smallest market in the NHL by a mile.

 

The Winnipeg metro area has grown since the mid 90's, and the problem with keeping the team in Winnipeg before they moved to Phoenix had nothing to do with fan support.

 

Quebec City is significantly smaller with a population closer to 500,000. Winnipeg is much larger at 700,000 - 40% more people.

 

Quebec City did not start showing up to support the Nordiques until it was basically too late (in 95, when they go Forsberg and started getting good) to make a difference.

 

Winnipeg was never a strong team in the 90's but the fans always supported them.

 

Very different story.

[SubwayGuy]

Actually money does matter. The Jets have rich owners and this will allow them to go out and spend a bit more than in the past. Let's remember that the old Jets back weren't that great of a team, but they still had the fan support, but a poor owner and couldn't get a new arena either, so yes, money does matter. Just look at the Buffalo Sabres. They've got a new owner with deep pockets and now suddenly that team looks like a contender now when previously the old owner had the wallet closed tight, hence they had very few offensive weapons. They made some big trades at the deadline and got some offensive weapons up front and some good two way defencemen on the blue line and they're suddenly favourites to go deep this coming season.

 

Semantics. Money can help an owner be good but some of the worst owners have a lot of money. Hell, Charles Wang has a lot of money. Bill Wirtz used to. Tom Golisano was loaded.

 

An owner who cares about the team and is willing to spend it is definitely an asset, but if the fans don't show up it won't matter.

 

Winnipeg has fans that show up, and decent media exposure. In the end I think it will work, but the fans that think they are instantly going to be a Cup Contender will be surprised and not in a good way.

 

The Jets in the 90s were harmed by not just bad, but terrible ownership, inability to get a new arena, and the weakness of the Canadian dollar since all NHL salaries are USD. However, the fan support to keep the team there was always good, and when you have a fanbase that shows up even when the team is losing that's a huge asset.

 

They can use their fan loyalty and decent media coverage for revenues that can allow the ownership to build a winner.

 

But if the fans don't turn out, ownership can't do very much - even the best, richest ownership in the world. That shouldn't be a problem with Winnipeg.

 

Quebec City it could be if the team doesn't become a winner/contender the first few years, due to the size of the market. After the honeymoon period wears off there, I could see them struggling to fill a building.

[SubwayGuy]

As much as the NY Islanders name making sense if they moved to Brooklyn, people in Brooklyn (especially Borough President Marty Markowitz and other pols) would request for the Islanders to become Brooklyn Islanders.

 

As much as that might make sense, I remember reading somewhere that Barclay's was not designed to accommodate ice hockey, so I don't think it's possible due to physical constraints of the facility.

[Shortline Bus]

As much as that might make sense, I remember reading somewhere that Barclay's was not designed to accommodate ice hockey, so I don't think it's possible due to physical constraints of the facility.

 

If that true than it's becomes even more likely that Wang will sell to an out of town owner and thus leave LI or the entire NYC metro area.

 

IMO i just don't see the Mets Owners Jeff and Fred Wilpon with their own mess from Bernie Madoff and their rumored appx. 17,000-seat arena for the Isles. At this point imo either Nassau's private business community & Wang pay the entire cost of an new arena. Or the Isles are gone bye-bye of the region.

[Grand Concourse]

As much as that might make sense, I remember reading somewhere that Barclay's was not designed to accommodate ice hockey, so I don't think it's possible due to physical constraints of the facility.

 

I wonder if anyone knows what the average attendance of past Islanders games where? If it's about 13,000, then I don't think it should be that big a problem.

The last possible options would be the Rock at Newark [LA's staples center is home to both LA NBA teams, why not an arena for 2 NHL teams?] or the Izod center [if it is still there/usable].

 

It would suck if the Islanders leaves the tri-state area because they didn't try the other options first.

[Grand Concourse]

NY Times [warning, long article]:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/sports/hockey/islanders-future-blurred-by-rejection-of-arena-proposal.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=hockey

Islanders’ Future Blurred by Rejection of Plan to Pay for a New Arena

 

By JEFF Z. KLEIN and KEN BELSON

 

Published: August 2, 2011

 

Charles Wang, the owner of the Islanders, said last week there was “no Plan B” if Nassau County, N.Y., voters rejected a plan to borrow $400 million to pay for a new arena for his team, a minor league ballpark and new convention space.

 

He might have to find a Plan B now that the measure was voted down, 57 percent to 43, on Monday.

 

“Right now, I have to tell you, it’s a very emotional time and we’re not going to make any comments on any specific next steps,” Wang said Tuesday at the county-owned Coliseum, which was built in 1972 and contains few of the luxury boxes and amenities that produce significant revenue for the N.H.L.’s other 29 clubs.

 

The club has promised to remain at the Coliseum in Uniondale until its current lease expires in 2015. The bond issue defeated Monday was just the latest version of a plan to fix the arena. Wang had proposed an earlier real estate project, which included refurbishing the Coliseum, that fell through last year.

 

But if a plan to renovate or replace the Coliseum does not succeed between now and 2015, will the Islanders move, and if so, where?

 

The front-runners at this very early stage are Brooklyn and Quebec City, with Kansas City, Mo.; Hamilton, Ontario; and Seattle regarded as much longer shots.

 

Wang, a part or full owner of the Islanders since 2000, has left open the option of moving the club, which loses an estimated $20 million per season, after the 2014-15 season.

 

County Executive Edward P. Mangano, who backed the arena deal, said Tuesday that he was seeking proposals for developing the 77-acre Coliseum site.

 

“The time is now to explore a new path for economic development opportunities and job growth at the site of Nassau Coliseum,” Mangano said. “I encourage all those with a plan to contact the county immediately.”

 

N.H.L. Commissioner Gary Bettman, who has made several public appearances in support of Wang’s Coliseum-related projects, reiterated his support on Tuesday.

 

“We will continue to work closely with the Islanders to explore whatever options still may be available in light of what obviously is not a positive development,” Bettman said. “Our goal is for the team to remain on Long Island and we still hope that objective can be realized.”

 

The Brooklyn option involves the Nets’ new basketball arena, the Barclays Center, that is scheduled to open in September 2012. A revised design of the arena has raised doubts over whether the arena floor, in its present configuration, is large enough to accommodate an N.H.L.-sized ice sheet. But Brett Yormark, the chief executive of the Barclays Center, said the arena “will have an ice rink that can support professional hockey.”

 

While the N.H.L. and the operators of the arena have not had talks about bringing the Islanders to Brooklyn, Yormark made it clear that hockey is an option in his arena.

 

“Due to the venue’s design, the capacity for hockey would be several thousand seats less than for basketball,” he said. “While we hope to explore hockey opportunities in the future, our primary focus at the moment is to build the best sports and entertainment venue in the world.”

 

Moving the team 26 miles from Uniondale to Brooklyn would keep much of the Islanders’ fan base intact and would help preserve the club’s legacy of four straight Stanley Cups in the early 1980s and 19 straight playoff series victories.

 

It would also provide Wang or whoever owns the Islanders with luxury-box revenue, and more access to public transportation than the Coliseum has.

 

But a relocation of the Islanders to Brooklyn would do little to solve an underlying problem — the presence of three N.H.L. teams in the New York area, where hockey is not an overriding passion. Nor will it solve the Islanders’ 18-year drought without winning a playoff series, which has led to low attendance and a lack of coverage in the sports media.

 

“When you have nine professional teams and three in one sport, it can present problems,” Bettman said in 1995, when the Devils threatened to move to Nashville.

Bettman was quick to add that the glut of teams does not necessarily mean an N.H.L. club has to move from the New York area. But what he said about the Devils in 1995 remains applicable to the Islanders today.

 

In Quebec, however, hockey is king, and there they are in the middle of a big push to bring back the N.H.L. The Nordiques left there in 1995.

 

With the Canadian dollar strong, plans are proceeding for the construction of a new $400 million rink, financed by a mix of provincial, municipal and private funds to be completed by fall 2015.

 

Mayor Régis Lebeaume said last week that he was “watching the referendum on Long Island.”

 

Quebec City is probably first in line to get a relocated N.H.L. team, but right now it seems most likely that the Phoenix Coyotes, not the Islanders, will be that team.

 

The Coyotes, operated as a money-losing proposition by the N.H.L. and still seeking a buyer two years after its previous owner put the team into bankruptcy, are guaranteed to stay at their Glendale, Ariz., arena only through the 2011-12 season.

 

If Brooklyn or Quebec City are not available, the Islanders may look to Kansas City, where the four-year-old Sprint Center is still seeking an anchor tenant and where the Islanders staged an exhibition game in 2009.

 

But there has been little public groundswell in support of bringing the N.H.L. to Kansas City, despite the city being proposed as a destination in recent years when the Pittsburgh Penguins and Nashville Predators threatened to move.

 

Hamilton’s problem is that it is too close to Toronto and Buffalo. Neither the Leafs nor the Sabres have indicated they would welcome a new team in their territory.

 

Last spring Bill Daly, the N.H.L.’s deputy commissioner, confirmed that the league had been approached by a Seattle group about acquiring a club.

 

Seattle has a long history in hockey — in 1917 it became the first American city to win the Stanley Cup — and has supported a team in the junior Western Hockey League since the 1977-78 season.

 

 

So it looks like a move to Brooklyn is not 'that' out of the question afterall.

[Tokkemon]

I think the best situation would be the Coyotes moving to Quebec City and the Islanders moving to Seattle. That would be awesome!!!