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RTS Bus Test & Evaluation Proposal


East New York

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Thanks again Dante/ENY for your exclusive report.

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So glad that my home transit agency, the MBTA, has been chosen as one of the test groups for the RTS low floor. It makes sense - between 1995 and 2003, the "T" ran a bus fleet that was almost 100% RTS - with great results. Even today, the 100 or so remaining TMC & Nova RTSs ride better than any of the low floor models we have - NABI, Neoplan & even New Flyer.

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I haven't ridden the Xcelsior yet, but I've heard glowing reports.

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I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying this - long term, the 2 survivors in the US low floor market will be the RTS LF and Xcelsior

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It's great being a bus fan these days! B)

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So glad that my home transit agency, the MBTA, has been chosen as one of the test groups for the RTS low floor. It makes sense - between 1995 and 2003, the "T" ran a bus fleet that was almost 100% RTS - with great results. Even today, the 100 or so remaining TMC & Nova RTSs ride better than any of the low floor models we have - NABI, Neoplan & even New Flyer.

 

What are you smoking? The T's RTSs are horrendous(but not as bad as the Neoplans and NABIs)! Do you not remember August 2005? THREE RTSs caught fire that month. Since then, the T has been eager to retire the RTSs. We only keep then around still because we don't have enough buses to cover our rush hour schedules.

 

In the 1990s, when the T had a 99% RTS fleet, the RTS were still bad. Broken ACs, non-functioning wheelchair lifts, panels falling off, and clouds of black smoke following each and every bus - those were the T's worst years. Almost every bus had something wrong with it. If a bus was late, 75% of the time it was probably because the bus had broken down. Thank God most of the RTS have been retired!

 

In terms of ride quality, build quality, and reliability, I'd rank the buses(from best to worst) New Flyer, RTS, Neoplan, NABI. The New Flyers are without a doubt the best buses we've had in decades. However, I am still open minded and optimistic about Millennium Transit's rendition of the RTS. Hopefully, it would be better than its ancestors and not go down the path of the T's Neolans and NABIs: catching fire and falling apart(respectively) after a few years.

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I dont know if anyone remembers, but MTS was offering the HF RTS and had NJTransit test 2 of them which failed QC testing for NJT. The rear portion was redesigned to accommodate a standard T-drive and changed the weight distribution. this caused MTS to re-evaluate the whole operation. Im glad to see theyve recovered and are making an attempt at bringing the RTS back...in any form!

 

Now as far as the front, NovaBus began offering a Wide Front Door Model back in the 90's to allow a front door WC lift and provide bus operators with more room. The "traditional" front bulkhead we are accustomed to will probably never be available for the Extreme. As much as i love the RTS, as a HF, i doubt it will ever be as good with the new rear axel config. "if it aint broke, dont fix it". I do hope that the T-drive on the extreme will continue the legact of the greatest bus design ever. There are too many engineering factors with the RTS to NOT call it that!! Its been around since '78 for a reason!!!

 

The T-Drive high floor however is holding up just fine. The 32 units that were built to NJT specs are still in service today with other operators. 2 additional units went to Pueblo Colorado, and one went to Artesia. NJT's requirements were not over the top as many may think. Electrical issues were said to be the main problem as to why one of the pilots was rejected. After that, MTS ran out of money and could not complete the order. The rear structure is solid, and proving itself right now. It's no longer possible to manufacture V-Drive buses. No one makes engines for them anymore.

 

And TMC actually developed the wide front door model in 1989. Not Nova.

 

What are you smoking? The T's RTSs are horrendous(but not as bad as the Neoplans and NABIs)! Do you not remember August 2005? THREE RTSs caught fire that month. Since then, the T has been eager to retire the RTSs. We only keep then around still because we don't have enough buses to cover our rush hour schedules.

 

In the 1990s, when the T had a 99% RTS fleet, the RTS were still bad. Broken ACs, non-functioning wheelchair lifts, panels falling off, and clouds of black smoke following each and every bus - those were the T's worst years. Almost every bus had something wrong with it. If a bus was late, 75% of the time it was probably because the bus had broken down. Thank God most of the RTS have been retired!

 

In terms of ride quality, build quality, and reliability, I'd rank the buses(from best to worst) New Flyer, RTS, Neoplan, NABI. The New Flyers are without a doubt the best buses we've had in decades. However, I am still open minded and optimistic about Millennium Transit's rendition of the RTS. Hopefully, it would be better than its ancestors and not go down the path of the T's Neolans and NABIs: catching fire and falling apart(respectively) after a few years.

 

Im sorry sir, but I beg to differ. First of all, the T's RTS' are old as dirt. Comparing them to Neo's and NABI's is not a good assessment at all. Those are two of the worst buses on the streets. The T could have replaced those RTS' years ago if they wanted too.

 

Aside from all that, the T virtually ran to MTS when they found out about the low floor project. The bid went to New Flyer however because of an accounting error on MTS' behalf.

 

If they were truely turned off by the RTS, there is no way they would have even entertained an order from a company that didn't even have a prototype up and running!

 

That in itself does not support your claim, and that's why MBTA was selected.

 

As far as ride quality, the RTS was the gold standard hands down. That is undisputed. I rode on the very first production D40LF back in 1994. NF has great buses, but they are not as solid as the RTS.

 

Buses burn up all the time. I've seen plenty of char broiled Flyers.

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Ok. Naturally, I had to investigate. So let's break this photo down.

 

What we have is the 2nd RTS LF off the line. This is the 40 foot standard model.

 

 

*CAT C9/ZF powered Altoona certification test bus.

*Hydraulic fluid leaked into the CAT, and it caught fire.

*The cradle was damaged.

*The bus needs to be fitted with an EPA10 Cummins.

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By my math, the RTSs are 15+ years old. I don't believe any of the current low floor models on the T" will be running at age 15

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Just look at the condition of the bodies and engines on the NABIs - even the rebuilds don't ride as well as an RTS.

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Don't want to get into a debate about which buses are best - but - as I'm sure you know - The "T" does not know the meaning of the word maintenance - especially concerning buses - when I toured Cabot garage a few years ago, a foreman admitted that there is no such thing as preventative maintenanace on "T" buses - as was reported in the Globe a few months ago - several bus supervisors were terminated for falsifying maintenace records - By my math, the RTSs are 15+ years old. It's amazing they run at all - I've been on several 2005 Neoplans that have broken down, never had an RTS break down on any of the routes I've ridden - do you really believe any New Flyers will be running at age 15?

 

Some New Flyers actually do last that long with the proper maintenance. One of the launch customers of the D40LF, Ann Arbor Transportation Authority still has 5 left from it's original option order.

 

One of their last remaining buses, 386 runs like the day she was delivered! And the Detroit Diesel is still running quite hard! That thing moves better than some of their new Gilligs!

 

Maintenance is key to the life of your buses.

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*New Jersey Transit is monitoring the two pilot high floor buses it rejected. These buses are currently in service with Somerset County.

 

*The ARVP team is committed to inviting NJT to take a second look at all the current Millennium RTS High Floors in service. All this coaches were built based off NJT specs. All 35 MTS built coaches remain in service to date, meeting and/or exceeding all expectations of the operators.

 

*Pueblo Transit is also very pleased with their RTS Legends. They refitted coaches 106 and 206 with electric fan drives. These are much more efficient than the hydraulic units.

 

*All MTS coaches delivered to date have disc breaks.

 

*MTS has continued to successfully support the RTS parts aftermarket for the last 5 years.

 

*Texas A&M University is very pleased with it's Millennium coaches. They will soon publish a requirement for more new buses. Guess what they want?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Nice! This is Great News!

 

I may not envy the front of the current design but it still looks good non the less. Plus I'm interested as to see what a LF RTS looks like. I have admit that I would like to see some diversity in the fleet as we are seeing with the LFS's & New Flyers coming in. Plus the fact that the numbers as the Older RTS fleet is dwindling, it would be great to see the RTS fleet for live for 15+ through the new ones.:cool:

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I only like the MTA's RTS buses for some reason. I seem to have a preference for Detroit Diesel powered buses, but I would rather have LED taillights than those stalks I keep seeing everywhere. Someone should take a look at that front side, though.

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The T-Drive high floor however is holding up just fine. The 6 units that were built to NJT specs are still in service today with other operators. 2 additional units went to Pueblo Colorado. NJT's requirements were over the top. Electrical issues were said to be the main problem. The rear structure is solid, and proving itself right now. It's no longer possible to manufacture V-Drive buses. No one makes engines for them anymore.

 

And TMC actually developed the wide front door model in 1989. Not Nova.

 

 

 

Thanks for the heads up on the WFD design. I never saw a WFD model untill the introduction of the 30' model.

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Some New Flyers actually do last that long with the proper maintenance. The Launch customer of the D40LF, Ann Arbor Transportation Authority still has one left from it's original option order. They launched the bus in 1994, with coach 350, and took delivery through 1996.(386)

 

Coach 386 runs like the day she was delivered! And the Detroit Diesel is still running quite hard! That thing moves better than some of their new Gilligs!

 

Maintenance is key to the life of your buses.

 

Remember BC Transit is still running their 1991 D40LF's as well Edmonton is still running their 1993 D40LF's and Calgary is still running its 1993's as well.

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By my math, the RTSs are 15+ years old. I don't believe any of the current low floor models on the T" will be running at age 15

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Just look at the condition of the bodies and engines on the NABIs - even the rebuilds don't ride as well as an RTS.

 

If its stainless steel it should last 18 years. As TTC's Orion VII's will be kept for 18 years

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NYC Transit Forums Excusive!!

 

 

 

A team of the most capable individuals in the industry, have been assembled to continue the Legend of The RTS.

 

This highly skilled team is in the beginning stages of developing the one most rigorous bus testing programs in history.

 

The team would like to test the RTS Low Floor with a transit agency for a preset period of time, in order to validate the bus in a real world setting.

 

A key member involved has evaluated extensive criteria and data, and plans to create a The Advanced RTS Validation Program(ARVP).

 

The goal of this program is to work one-on-one with 5 transit agencies identified as key RTS veteran operators. These operators have been selected based on their past relationships, fleet maintainability, and geographical locations. They are seen as agencies that have shaped the way the RTS was built and enhanced over the years. It is only fitting that they be directly involved with development of the new bus.

 

It is hoped that all 5 agencies will participate in ARVP. These 5 agencies would essentially aid MTS in the in the engineering of the final configuration of the RTS low floor.

 

94 transit agencies were evaluated as potential testing partners.

 

Ladies and gentleman, boys and girls, it is my great pleasure to introduce the word to ARVP!

 

The 5 agencies evaluated for the program are.....

 

Long Beach Transit(LBT)

Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority(MBTA)

(MTA) New York City Transit(NYCTA)

Rhode Island Public Transportation Authority(RIPTA)

Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation(SMART)

 

Once the plan is 100% complete and approved, agencies are expected to be notified of ARVP by proposal in 2012.

 

The proposal for the first agency selected is expected to be finalized by this fall. If all goes according to plan, this proposal will go to (MTA) Bus Operations for 90 Next Generation RTS T80-210 Extreme Low Floors.

 

The first RTS-10 (40 foot) prototype is currently at Altoona. This bus has already begun structural validation testing which is requited by the FTA. To date all has gone well as expected.

 

The bus structure, which is based completely off the high floor RTS coach has now been proven to be just as durable, if not more so than the high floor. The bus now needs to be transported to the MTS facility in Roswell, NM. Once there, the project will be able to move into full swing. The bus will then be made "transit ready." Components and systems will be fitted and tested. The bus will then be transported back to Altoona, where it will complete validation testing.

 

NYC Transit Forums is the only website on the internet where you will get exclusive breaking news on all things RTS. It is my great honor to be able to bring you all this history making news. Stay Tuned!

 

Enjoy!!!!:cool:

 

 

MTARTSExtreme2.jpg

RTS T42-210 42.5 foot Extreme Low Floor prototype

 

 

 

Source: Team Millennium

 

Guess MTA won't let go of the RTS. Our remaining RTS are almost out of days but not quite yet.

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Question- when I am in the city, around midtown or downtown, I often see NYU buses that are RTS's. Anyone know how old they are? They look pretty new to me, are they a newer model or something?

 

Those used to belong to NJ Transit. They're still fairly new and they replaced the Orion V's NYU had and they even have an Orion 3G running around somewhere

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Those used to belong to NJ Transit. They're still fairly new and they replaced the Orion V's NYU had and they even have an Orion 3G running around somewhere

 

Those RTS's still belong to NJ Transit - they are leased to Academy.

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  • 2 weeks later...

They need to put some of these on the m22. The route is overcrowded only on certain buses oddly. The buses that gets extremely crowded is the one that leaves Grand ST at 7:38/7:45 AM It is like so crowded that like 1/4 into the route it is like filled up crazy! You need to see it to believe it. It is so filled that it is illegal supposedly to the Federal Government, Not the B/O. Like he has to drive with the doors partially closed heck they need to testem here.

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