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Gorgor

Second Avenue Subway Poll

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Well this is sorta urgent for the research paper I'm doing that's due in a few days, and since it appears that an MTA employee won't be able to answer any of my questions, here's just a small poll that I'd like you guys to answer if you could.

 

 

When do you personally believe, if at all, each phase of the Second Avenue Subway will be completed?

 

Do you think that the MTA is doing a good job with construction the Second Avenue Subway? Is there anything that you believe they could do better?

 

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And does anyone know what the specific reasons for financial issues with the project and why it caused the original completion date, 2013, has been extended to December 2016?

 

 

Thank you so much. :)

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I don't know any reasons behind the pushback, but it likely has to do with finances. I think phase one will be completed in 2015, and the whole line (hopefully) by 2030.

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I think they'll get part 1 and 2 done eventually by the end of the decade (with limited tunnel segments already existing). Parts 3 and 4 will never get started, too expensive. Just the idea of the UES getting a one seat ride to western areas of midtown will bring enough relief to the (6) to make the Lex bearable.

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I think at best Phase 3 of the Second Avenue Subway should be completed along with Phase 1, and Phase 2. At best the (T) could run on the Culver Line using the Rutgers Street Tunnel as an express to Avenue X. It could be linked by building a connection from Second Avenue to Houston Street, and there can be provisions for Phase 4 later on.

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I think at best Phase 3 of the Second Avenue Subway should be completed along with Phase 1, and Phase 2. At best the (T) could run on the Culver Line using the Rutgers Street Tunnel as an express to Avenue X. It could be linked by building a connection from Second Avenue to Houston Street, and there can be provisions for Phase 4 later on.

 

Yes, that's a very realistic prospect.

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honestly i dont think the (T) will get done any time soon. they layed the plans in the 1930's and it was only poked upon. its been 70 years since it was first thought of and has not been completed. the way the the construction is going and with the recent finance issues none of us will see it. i estimate buy the 100th year that it was first thought of it will be completed. they should have just used the old tunnels carved in the 40's and 70's instead of making new tunnels. this SAS project will not be completed by the end of the decade. at some point the (MTA) will just lose interest in the project and just abandon the whole thing. just like they did with the (7) Extension to seacacus just because nj didnt want to fund the project they abandoned it. thats whats going to happen to the SAS it will never get completed. its the only thing that has been worked on from the IND second system plans and it has not been completed. the MTA is just doing a horrible job constructing the route. i sometime thinks if it would have been completed already if the IND still existed. the company not the division. until the MTA gets better planners and financial advisers the SAS will not head anywhere.

 

good luck on your paper

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Agreed Andres. We need a mass transit Robert Moses whose main priorities is in trains, and mass transit to get things started. Or someone with as much power as Robert Moses himself, but not as destructive and cruel as Robert Moses.

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Agreed Andres. We need a mass transit Robert Moses whose main priorities is in trains, and mass transit to get things started. Or someone with as much power as Robert Moses himself, but not as destructive and cruel as Robert Moses.

 

how was Robert Moses cruel and destructive? he was the father of modern transportation in new york.

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Guest lance25

Re: this post (because I didn't want to quote that wall of text)

 

How Second Avenue Keeps Getting Delayed/Cancelled:

  • first conceived in 1930s by IND (as part of the Second System); cancelled due to Great Depression
  • lack of money, resources during WWII prevented any subway construction (prime example: eastern underground stations on (A) line)
  • no real plans in the 1950s other than what we'd see in the '60s
  • '60s Plan for Action included modified Second Avenue (first plan to actually see construction); halted by '70s economic downturn
  • obviously wasn't though of during the '70s & '80s with more pressing issues to worry about (a system that was literally falling apart)
  • current plan conceived in late '90s or turn of millennium, but ongoing recession has reduced the design and flexibility of the line

 

While the (MTA) and its predecessors aren't excluded from blame, a lot of the reason why Second Avenue is still under construction is because of really bad timing. And unfortunately, because Second Avenue is always given top priority for Capital Construction, like a better Rogers Junction or the extension of the HALF* lines get pushed to the wayside.

 

By the way, the (7) extension to Secaucus was never considered to be a real idea by anyone except King Bloomberg, who was trying to get constituents on his side after Christie blocked the much more useful rail tunnel between New York and New Jersey.

 

 

*HALF - Hillside, Archer, Lefferts, Flushing

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Not really. He cared more about cars then people, he razed and bulldozed entire neighborhoods for his ideas, and treated people like his pawns. What is the good in that? To not mention the fact he bulldozed 1/2 of Bay Ridge for the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and he also made the bridge's ramps to be too steep to be used by mass transit, and he razed the South Beach Branch of the SIR, and demolished 1/2 of the community over there too. So whats the good in that also?

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Not really. He cared more about cars then people, he razed and bulldozed entire neighborhoods for his ideas, and treated people like his pawns. What is the good in that? To not mention the fact he bulldozed 1/2 of Bay Ridge for the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and he also made the bridge's ramps to be too steep to be used by mass transit, and he razed the South Beach Branch of the SIR, and demolished 1/2 of the community over there too. So whats the good in that also?

 

o ok i see your point. none of the bridges he mad could be used by trolleys street cars or subways. like the triboro bridge, verrazano, washington bridges

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No they can be used by light rail, and streetcars, but not the NYC Subway. He also didn't care who was in his way, and took funding from the subway to continue building his highways.

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The subway will not be built south of 63rd St for a long time. A 125th St Extension, which is very useful, is more likely as Phase 3. What may motivate construction of the southern half is when the Northern Blvd Line gets built, if ever.

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Northern Boulevard line lol? Off the deep end we go! Again it just will be the (Q) to 125th around 2020 and that's it.

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Not really. He cared more about cars then people, he razed and bulldozed entire neighborhoods for his ideas, and treated people like his pawns. What is the good in that? To not mention the fact he bulldozed 1/2 of Bay Ridge for the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and he also made the bridge's ramps to be too steep to be used by mass transit, and he razed the South Beach Branch of the SIR, and demolished 1/2 of the community over there too. So whats the good in that also?

 

So true.:cry: Robert Moses was a bad guy. I am never crossing the VNB again...

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Actually if you want to put it that way he's much more of a paradox then anything else.

 

What exactly was Moses's deal? He wanted to improve transport in NYC, but he pooh-poohed the (MTA) and Port Authourity. He wanted to build roads and bridges to connect the five boroughs, but he didn't care about wiping out people who those roads and bridges could serve. I don't get him; he could've done alot better.:P

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o ok i see your point. none of the bridges he mad could be used by trolleys street cars or subways. like the triboro bridge, verrazano, washington bridges

 

R Moses stated that no subway would be used on his bridges.

 

He stated it was for cars only.

 

S/F,

CEYA!

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Guys, Moses was just following the "in" thing back in those days. Cars were finally booming into the mainstream by the 30s, 40s, and 50s. They were, quite litterally, the way of the future for America. Moses saw this and tried to incorperate this. The Subway was the "old" way of doing things and he believed that Cars would be better and more efficient than Subways or trains, and he was right to some extent. But, because he was so zealous, he took a lot of people down to build his projects. But remember, only one of his cross-Manhattan highways were ever built: the Cross-Manhattan between the GWB and Alexander Hamilton Bridge. This stretch of road is the most traveled piece of road in the entire world. Imagine if there were these types of roads at 125th St, 96th St, 42th St, 34th St, etc. What would Manhattan be like if those were built?

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What exactly was Moses's deal? He wanted to improve transport in NYC, but he pooh-poohed the (MTA) and Port Authourity. He wanted to build roads and bridges to connect the five boroughs, but he didn't care about wiping out people who those roads and bridges could serve. I don't get him; he could've done alot better.:P

 

When you have a person who heads more than one agency.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/1218.html

 

For 44 years, from 1924 until 1968, he held several appointive offices and once occupied 12 positions simultaneously, including that of New York City Parks Commissioner, head of the State Parks Council, head of the State Power Commission and chairman of the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority.

 

S/F,

CEYA!

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What exactly was Moses's deal? He wanted to improve transport in NYC, but he pooh-poohed the (MTA) and Port Authourity. He wanted to build roads and bridges to connect the five boroughs, but he didn't care about wiping out people who those roads and bridges could serve. I don't get him; he could've done alot better.:P

 

When I needed to connect the Main Railway to the Mountain Railway, I made sure I maintained all the necessary roads and bridges.

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Imagine if there were these types of roads at 125th St, 96th St, 42th St, 34th St, etc. What would Manhattan be like if those were built?

 

I don't want to think about such a prospect! But if I had to, then the whole (MTA) would no longer exist, the Subway would be in ruins, and Manhattan would not be the cultural epicenter it is today. It would be like Rome during its downfall; poor, downtrodden, and cultureless.

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