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Question about extra tracks on Bay Ridge Line, Howling motors + 8713-8717 on (Q) & more


4P3607

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Here are some questions I have that have been making me wonder for the past few days, and some news.

 

Questions

1• I searched the forums for this question, and it seems to have not popped up. When I ride the (R) train to / from Bay Ridge - 95 Street, I notice the line fits 2 extra tracks. Here are the places:

-at 86 Street, the southbound track makes a curve as if were connecting to another track.

-there is a middle track that is currently used for layup between 95 Street & 86 Street

-When riding the northbound train between Bay Ridge Av & 59 Street, I see 2 extra trestles

-Just before 59 Street on the northbound track, I looked back at the side window and saw an empty tunnel space. When entering 59 St, I saw another empty tunnel space.

-at the southbound ends of 59 Street, there are bellmouths allowing for extra tracks.

What could this possibly be? a provision for express tracks?

Also I heard a rumor that there are walled up tracks that go all the way to 101 Street. I never saw any evidence of it but it does seem a bit strange that the tracks just stop dead end at a wall.

 

2• before 2005, did the R142's & R142A's ever have the programming for the (9)? If so, did it use thompson's voice?

 

3• I am kind of iffy on this since people have been giving me different answers, but was the tracks after Jamaica-179 Street on the (F) that extend to 188 Street a provision line to Jamaica Estates? It seems so weird that the IND would just cut the tracks off with express tracks and all at 179 Street.

 

4• At Jamaica center on the (E) train level, when there is no train in the terminal track I notice that the tracks extend down past the station, and at the end make a curve that starts to turn into a platform.

-Now I know that the (J) used to be an elevated line going to 168 Street, but what about the (E)? It seems so weird that the tracks curve at the end like that. Do they stop dead end? also was that a provisional platform down at the end?

 

5• At Jamaica Center, Jamaica - 179 Street & Jamaica-Van Wyck, I notice this "beeping" sound on the mezanine. What is that beeping coming from?

 

6• At the southbound end of Whitehall Street on the (R), I notice that the middle track connects back to the other tracks, then the bellmouth forms. Also, 2 bellmouths form on the Southbound track.

-How come the middle track doesn't continue into a bellmouth and instead connects back to the local tracks then theres a bellmouth?

 

7• Which came first, the BMT Myrtle Avenue line or the graveyard on Metropolitan Avenue? It would make more sense if the graveyard was built first since the (M) would have probably gone further if there was no graveyard.

 

8• At City Hall on the (R), do the terminal tracks just stop dead end on the south end of the station?

-Also, was the original provision of the station was to have the upper level as the (W)'s terminal & the lower level as the working tracks?

 

9• At Hoyt - Schermerhorn, I noticed one of the Shuttle tracks (north or south, I forgot Which one) is blocked off. Does that one track continue on, then theres a switch between there and the museum?

 

10• Last but not least on the subway, what causes howling motors? Howling motors happen alot on R68's & R68A's (even the Franklin Avenue shuttle has a howling motor). R46 #5741 has a loud howling motor. All R46 that have howling motors are listed in the "news section".

But what does cause howling motors? Is it the motor wearing out?

 

--------------------------

11• Is there a special engine on Orion V CNG #9871? because that bus sounds very different from the others. The engine sounds like its been amped 5X.

 

12• Not to be a nag, but when is QV getting their LFS? I heard from some that in June they start coming.

-Also, will a few of those buses feature LED headlights? on Wiki it says that, but someone could have just randomly put that in.

 

13• What is with 4648 from JFK? It has half the new paint scheme. The side windows have the new paint scheme, the front is completly blank, & the doors still have the blue stripe on it. Were they half in the painting proccess and then had to send that bus out in an emergency?

 

News

• The following OG's from LGA have the new scheme: 3602, 3606, 3612, 3614, 3619 & 3620.

 

• Former Security Camera (E) train set #8713 - 8717 is now back at Coney Island Yard with the original seats installed.

-All R160B's from JY that are 9232 & Below are going back to CY. This is more sets than that were on the (R), which creates a provision for a few R46 on the (F) (maybe as much as 1).

 

•As from continued in the Questions section, Here are the R46 that have howling motors from JY, sorted from most Howl to least howl:

5741, 5524, 5707, 5808.

There are a few more that have slight howling motors but Im not sure which ones and/or forgot their numbers.

 

^^Sorry for the Wall of text, its just questions that have been building up for the past week & news that I saw. B)

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Here are some questions I have that have been making me wonder for the past few days, and some news.

 

Questions

1• I searched the forums for this question, and it seems to have not popped up. When I ride the (R) train to / from Bay Ridge - 95 Street, I notice the line fits 2 extra tracks. Here are the places:

-at 86 Street, the southbound track makes a curve as if were connecting to another track.

-there is a middle track that is currently used for layup between 95 Street & 86 Street

-When riding the northbound train between Bay Ridge Av & 59 Street, I see 2 extra trestles

-Just before 59 Street on the northbound track, I looked back at the side window and saw an empty tunnel space. When entering 59 St, I saw another empty tunnel space.

-at the southbound ends of 59 Street, there are bellmouths allowing for extra tracks.

What could this possibly be? a provision for express tracks?

Also I heard a rumor that there are walled up tracks that go all the way to 101 Street. I never saw any evidence of it but it does seem a bit strange that the tracks just stop dead end at a wall.

 

2• before 2005, did the R142's & R142A's ever have the programming for the (9)? If so, did it use thompson's voice?

 

3• I am kind of iffy on this since people have been giving me different answers, but was the tracks after Jamaica-179 Street on the (F) that extend to 188 Street a provision line to Jamaica Estates? It seems so weird that the IND would just cut the tracks off with express tracks and all at 179 Street.

 

4• At Jamaica center on the (E) train level, when there is no train in the terminal track I notice that the tracks extend down past the station, and at the end make a curve that starts to turn into a platform.

-Now I know that the (J) used to be an elevated line going to 168 Street, but what about the (E)? It seems so weird that the tracks curve at the end like that. Do they stop dead end? also was that a provisional platform down at the end?

 

5• At Jamaica Center, Jamaica - 179 Street & Jamaica-Van Wyck, I notice this "beeping" sound on the mezanine. What is that beeping coming from?

 

6• At the southbound end of Whitehall Street on the (R), I notice that the middle track connects back to the other tracks, then the bellmouth forms. Also, 2 bellmouths form on the Southbound track.

-How come the middle track doesn't continue into a bellmouth and instead connects back to the local tracks then theres a bellmouth?

 

7• Which came first, the BMT Myrtle Avenue line or the graveyard on Metropolitan Avenue? It would make more sense if the graveyard was built first since the (M) would have probably gone further if there was no graveyard.

 

8• At City Hall on the (R), do the terminal tracks just stop dead end on the south end of the station?

-Also, was the original provision of the station was to have the upper level as the (W)'s terminal & the lower level as the working tracks?

 

9• At Hoyt - Schermerhorn, I noticed one of the Shuttle tracks (north or south, I forgot Which one) is blocked off. Does that one track continue on, then theres a switch between there and the museum?

 

10• Last but not least on the subway, what causes howling motors? Howling motors happen alot on R68's & R68A's (even the Franklin Avenue shuttle has a howling motor). R46 #5741 has a loud howling motor. All R46 that have howling motors are listed in the "news section".

But what does cause howling motors? Is it the motor wearing out?

 

--------------------------

11• Is there a special engine on Orion V CNG #9871? because that bus sounds very different from the others. The engine sounds like its been amped 5X.

 

12• Not to be a nag, but when is QV getting their LFS? I heard from some that in June they start coming.

-Also, will a few of those buses feature LED headlights? on Wiki it says that, but someone could have just randomly put that in.

 

13• What is with 4648 from JFK? It has half the new paint scheme. The side windows have the new paint scheme, the front is completly blank, & the doors still have the blue stripe on it. Were they half in the painting proccess and then had to send that bus out in an emergency?

 

News

• The following OG's from LGA have the new scheme: 3602, 3606, 3612, 3614, 3619 & 3620.

 

• Former Security Camera (E) train set #8713 - 8717 is now back at Coney Island Yard with the original seats installed.

-All R160B's from JY that are 9232 & Below are going back to CY. This is more sets than that were on the (R), which creates a provision for a few R46 on the (F) (maybe as much as 1).

 

•As from continued in the Questions section, Here are the R46 that have howling motors from JY, sorted from most Howl to least howl:

5741, 5524, 5707, 5808.

There are a few more that have slight howling motors but Im not sure which ones and/or forgot their numbers.

 

^^Sorry for the Wall of text, its just questions that have been building up for the past week & news that I saw. B)

 

1) I forget where I read this, but the (R) was originally intended to have express service south of 59th Street. If you look at a track map, you'll see that at 86th Street, the track on the southbound side turns slightly to enter the station, whereas the northbound track goes straight through: It would be the western half of an express station.

 

4) Yes, when the Archer Avenue line was built in 1988, they made provisions in case they wanted to extend it to Southeast Queens.

 

6) I guess the BMT only wanted 2 tracks worth of capacity across the East River.

 

9) According to this map (http://images.nycsubway.org/trackmap/pm_southeast_1.png), there is a switch connecting the two tracks just before the former Court Street station.

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If I remember reading correctly the 59th Street station tracks was where a Fourth Avenue Service would have ran as an express to 86th Street, and from there branch off the Fourth Avenue Line itself and head on to Staten Island. It is seen in the proposed IND Second System which of course was never built except for some abandoned station shells.

 

Here let's take a look. Maybe some of your answers lie in the IND Second System Map.

1939_IND_Second_System.jpg

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My replies in bold...

 

Here are some questions I have that have been making me wonder for the past few days, and some news.

 

Questions

1• I searched the forums for this question, and it seems to have not popped up. When I ride the (R) train to / from Bay Ridge - 95 Street, I notice the line fits 2 extra tracks. Here are the places:

-at 86 Street, the southbound track makes a curve as if were connecting to another track.

-there is a middle track that is currently used for layup between 95 Street & 86 Street

-When riding the northbound train between Bay Ridge Av & 59 Street, I see 2 extra trestles

-Just before 59 Street on the northbound track, I looked back at the side window and saw an empty tunnel space. When entering 59 St, I saw another empty tunnel space.

-at the southbound ends of 59 Street, there are bellmouths allowing for extra tracks.

What could this possibly be? a provision for express tracks?

Also I heard a rumor that there are walled up tracks that go all the way to 101 Street. I never saw any evidence of it but it does seem a bit strange that the tracks just stop dead end at a wall.

 

The original plan was for it to be 4 tracks to 95 St (and possibly parts beyond, maybe to SI) but as you know, things change

 

2• before 2005, did the R142's & R142A's ever have the programming for the (9)? If so, did it use thompson's voice?

 

not sure

 

3• I am kind of iffy on this since people have been giving me different answers, but was the tracks after Jamaica-179 Street on the (F) that extend to 188 Street a provision line to Jamaica Estates? It seems so weird that the IND would just cut the tracks off with express tracks and all at 179 Street.

 

that was one of the many plans for the IND Second System

 

4• At Jamaica center on the (E) train level, when there is no train in the terminal track I notice that the tracks extend down past the station, and at the end make a curve that starts to turn into a platform.

-Now I know that the (J) used to be an elevated line going to 168 Street, but what about the (E)? It seems so weird that the tracks curve at the end like that. Do they stop dead end? also was that a provisional platform down at the end?

 

before Jamaica Center came to fruition, the (E) went to 179 St, along with the (F). The stub tracks are for lay-ups but there was plans to extended it into southern Queens (along with the (J) stub tracks

 

5• At Jamaica Center, Jamaica - 179 Street & Jamaica-Van Wyck, I notice this "beeping" sound on the mezanine. What is that beeping coming from?

 

maybe a PA test, idk

 

6• At the southbound end of Whitehall Street on the (R), I notice that the middle track connects back to the other tracks, then the bellmouth forms. Also, 2 bellmouths form on the Southbound track.

-How come the middle track doesn't continue into a bellmouth and instead connects back to the local tracks then theres a bellmouth?

 

a BMT provision that never came into reality

 

7• Which came first, the BMT Myrtle Avenue line or the graveyard on Metropolitan Avenue? It would make more sense if the graveyard was built first since the (M) would have probably gone further if there was no graveyard.

 

the graveyard was there 1st

 

8• At City Hall on the (R), do the terminal tracks just stop dead end on the south end of the station?

-Also, was the original provision of the station was to have the upper level as the (W)'s terminal & the lower level as the working tracks?

 

long story on that one...to sum it up, the lower lever was supposed to be an express station to Brooklyn (before trains were routed over the Manny B)...the LL tracks just end at the end of the station

 

9• At Hoyt - Schermerhorn, I noticed one of the Shuttle tracks (north or south, I forgot Which one) is blocked off. Does that one track continue on, then theres a switch between there and the museum?

 

between Hoyt & the museum, there is in fact a doamond crossover...remember, it used to be a terminal station

 

10• Last but not least on the subway, what causes howling motors? Howling motors happen alot on R68's & R68A's (even the Franklin Avenue shuttle has a howling motor). R46 #5741 has a loud howling motor. All R46 that have howling motors are listed in the "news section".

But what does cause howling motors? Is it the motor wearing out?

 

not my department, ask someone else

 

--------------------------

11• Is there a special engine on Orion V CNG #9871? because that bus sounds very different from the others. The engine sounds like its been amped 5X.

 

doubt it, the only "odd" V CNG was the one with the John Deere 6081 engine in it and that was retires already

 

12• Not to be a nag, but when is QV getting their LFS? I heard from some that in June they start coming.

-Also, will a few of those buses feature LED headlights? on Wiki it says that, but someone could have just randomly put that in.

 

soon and and yes they will

 

13• What is with 4648 from JFK? It has half the new paint scheme. The side windows have the new paint scheme, the front is completly blank, & the doors still have the blue stripe on it. Were they half in the painting proccess and then had to send that bus out in an emergency?

 

IIRC that one was in a minor accident and they just put a white front on it

 

Hope that helps somewhat

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Yeah the Whitehall Street Tunnel mouths was an idea to have a BMT Broadway Service run from Manhattan directly to Staten Island. It's yet another failed proposal for the subway to go to Staten Island.

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Yeah the Whitehall Street Tunnel mouths was an idea to have a BMT Broadway Service run from Manhattan directly to Staten Island. It's yet another failed proposal for the subway to go to Staten Island.

 

I knew what it was proposed for, but I didn't understand why the middle track goes back into the "local" tracks then 3 bellmouths form (2 from Southbound, 1 from NB).

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In the 1970's, there was the plan for the Second Avenue Subway and its related Queens Super Express routes consisting of 63rd Street tunnel, Archer Avenue lines, extension to South Eastern Queens, etc. The Queens Super Express was to feed directly into the 63rd Street tunnel and the Archer Avenue segments. Where what are not E-trains to Archer AVenue would extend further into southern eastern Queens in one direction while J-trains would extend into southern eastern Queens in another direction once past the current Archer Avenue complex.

 

The Queens section of the whole project was cut into four parts - (A) the 63rd Street tunnel with its connections to the Sixth Avenue and Seventh AVenue stations at 57th Street. This section would allow then planned N-trains (now planned Q trains) to travel up the Second Avenue line to Harlem and the Bronx. This section ended just about 1,500 feet away from the Queens Plaza subway station, and included a stop on 63rd Street-Lexington, Roosevelt Island, and what is not called Queensbridge.

 

The second segment (:) was planned to be the Queens Super Express that was to use abandoned freight rail tracks of the LIRR to quickly wisk riders to/from Southern eastern Queens.

 

The third segment (C) consisted of the Archer Avenue subway stations that we use today, the elimination of the J-train elevated tracks and their replacement by the Archer Avenue subway lines, the connection to the Queens Blvd line and the re-routing of trains to/from Archer Avenue which is what the E-train does now. This segment of tracks once past the current terminal stations (which were NEVER designed to be terminals) would branch off in two directions to serve south eastern Queens, that was the fourth segment (D). The fourth segment would have additional train storage, and use a portion of the LIRR right of way.

 

In order to get money from the federal gov't it was decided to break the Second Avenue subway project and the Queens Super Express project into segments that would be done first, second, etc. The un-stated idea at the time was if that if certain sections were built - then the feds would pay for the "missing middle pieces" that would tie the whole project together. Thus along Second Avenue segments in Harlem, Chinatown and along 63rd Street construction was started. In Queens the 63rd Street Tunnel segment, and the Archer Avenue segment construction was started.

 

Then the city's 1970's fiscal crisis hit - oops - no more federal money for the other segments. In Queens politicians such as Geraldine Ferraro and Alphonse D'Mato (sp) joined along with Queens residents opposed the building of the Queens Super Express segment since it would use abandoned LIRR freight rail tracks near their homes - classic NIMBY. They succeeded in removing the funding for that portion of the line. While the LIRR changed its mind about subway facility building along its right of way in southern eastern Queens.

 

Thus in Queens the two sections built - Archer Avenue and 63rd Street were basically left as "orphans" from a grand plan. The Archer Avenue segment was already planned to be connected to the E and J train lines. The 63rd Street tunnel - often derided as the "tunnel to no-where" stopping 1,500 feet short of the Queens Plaza station would take a bit longer to be connected to the subway system.

 

Our subway system as it exists right now often consists of parts of grand ideas and possibilities that were often not realized. To me that is the part that makes being a transit fan fun - learning and knowing the history of what was built, what was planned, and what was not built.

 

Mike

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During the very early part of the building about 1915-20's of the BRT's Fourth Avenue subway, the officials from the BRT and the B & O railroad decided to join their railroad fleets into a unified whole - with blessing of the city's Public Service Commission and/or Board of Transportation at the time. This would give the BRT a great competitive edge compared to that other transit company the IRT in serving the city.

 

The BRT would serve Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens (along Astoria & Flushing jointly with the IRT), and Staten Island. The B & O Railroad the operator of Staten Island's three branch railroad was eager to join with the BRT, allowing its trains to travel to/from Manhattan. The two companies planned an underwater tunnel in the vicinity of the Narrows, to connect with the BRT's planned 59th Street station.

 

However the influence of meddling politicians, funding issues, the bankruptcy of the BRT (an accident along Malbone Street did not help matters at all), and B & O's own financial issues - doomed the projected tunnel and connection between Staten Island and Brooklyn. One aftermath of the bankruptcy of the BRT was the birth of the BMT subway company which simply did not have the money to build the underwater tunnel and extension to Staten Island.

 

Hope this helps.

Mike

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the howling is caused by a metallurgical quirk in the gears of some cars. it's not a motor noise. it's gear noise.

 

to amend what other posters have said, city hall bmt was originally supposed to terminate LOCAL trains on the upper level. express service would continue through the LOWER level. there was no "w" train back then. when trains started getting routed over the manhattan bridge that changed and the lower level was ultimately taken out of service. there are 3 lower tracks at city hall bmt which go to the end of the station, but the eastern most track does not have 3rd rail and is only used for work train moves. passenger trains are often laid up on the other two tracks.

 

the unused platforms at hoyt schermerhon are indeed the museum leads and there is a diamond crossover just east (railroad south) of the museum.

 

the rest of the subway questions i think have already been answered, and the bus questions i have no idea

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Thanks everybody :)

If I could, I would click "THANKS" for everyone but for some reason its missing.

 

Anyways, one quick question: Why does the (D) slip outside just after 36 Street, then go back in for a little while then out again? Why not just leave it underground? Was it because of the Railroad connection?

 

Also: Why are there so many tracks just before 9 Avenue? There are 2 pairs of tracks that seem to be leading up to the street, 3 that go to the upper & lower levels. Why so many? Also what do those tracks lead to that head upwards?

That switching near 9 Avenue looks as confusing as the DeKalb switching.

 

3 More Questions:

Where does the 9 Avenue Lower level end?

 

and

 

Why exactly was the Myrtle Avenue station abandoned (where the mantransiscope currently takes place just before the Manny :P? Was it because the DeKalb switching was too confusing?

 

and also

 

Why is the Nassau Street line 4 tracks? It wouldn't make any sense to have express service on the line since all the stations serve the express tracks & it ends at Canal Street? Was it for the provisional Second Avenue subway?

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The additional tracks west of the Ninth Avenue Station were tracks that led to the former BMT Fifth Avenue Elevated. It was torn down a long time ago. Some of the other tracks around there leads to the 36th Street Yard, and the others lead to the former Culver Shuttle's ROW, and the lower level of the Ninth Avenue Station.

 

Here's the track map for you to look at if you want.

detail-9thave.png

 

This is the track map of the South Brooklyn Railway since you keep asking questions about it. I know that they didn't update it the (Mx) is still on there.

sbknych.gif

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Your additional questions answers are the Myrtle Avenue Station to the Manhattan Bridge was closed, because of the platform lengthening of the Dekalb Avenue Station. When the platforms were extended the Myrtle Avenue Station is considered redundant, and was closed, and the addition tracks on the Nassau Street Line were the former tracks that led to the Manhattan Bridge. See the track map below. The connection the bridge was removed for the Chrystie Street Connection.

detail-pre67can.png

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Here are some questions I have that have been making me wonder for the past few days, and some news.

 

3• I am kind of iffy on this since people have been giving me different answers, but was the tracks after Jamaica-179 Street on the (F) that extend to 188 Street a provision line to Jamaica Estates? It seems so weird that the IND would just cut the tracks off with express tracks and all at 179 Street.

 

4• At Jamaica center on the (E) train level, when there is no train in the terminal track I notice that the tracks extend down past the station, and at the end make a curve that starts to turn into a platform.

-Now I know that the (J) used to be an elevated line going to 168 Street, but what about the (E)? It seems so weird that the tracks curve at the end like that. Do they stop dead end? also was that a provisional platform down at the end?

 

8• At City Hall on the (R), do the terminal tracks just stop dead end on the south end of the station?

-Also, was the original provision of the station was to have the upper level as the (W)'s terminal & the lower level as the working tracks?

 

 

3. The tracks were suppose to continue along Hillside. Officially the line was suppose to end at Little Neck Road, but it ends at around 185th Street. Died due to the Great Depression, and budget constraints.

 

4. Officially, the line was suppose to connect to the St Albans LIRR station and follow LIRR until where Green Acres Mall is, or something like that. The (J) was suppose to continue to Hollis (again, via the LIRR tacks). The plan died due to budget constrains. By the way, the (E) tracks end somewhere near York College.

 

8. Yes, the tracks end at a dead end. No, using the lower level of City Hall means having to move trains to CI, and plus the expensive task of actually making the level look somewhat presentable.

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The Ninth Avenue station complex is indeed complex, but you have to look at the history of the lines rather than the current situation.

 

The BRT/BMT Fourth Avenue line and the Ninth Avenue complex brought together five transit lines - 4th Avenue local to 95th Street, Sea Beach express route to Coney Island, West End route to Coney Island, Culver line to Coney Island, and the Brooklyn Fifth Avenue elevated line.

 

At the Ninth Avenue station complex trains to/from West End, Culver and the Fifth Avenue Elevated line meet, plus there is also a train yard and its access tracks, and access to a small Brooklyn railroad. In addition the connecting ramps from Brooklyn's Third Avenue elevated line joined the tracks for the Fifth Avenue elevated line.

 

The lower level of the station held the platforms once used by the Culver line - where in the mid-1950's the IND subway completed its goal of connecting its Church Avenue terminal to the remainder of the Culver line and for the first time allowing D-trains to travel from the Bronx to Coney Island.

 

When the Chrystie Street project in the mid-to-late 1960s that consisted of the relocation of track leads to/from the Manhattan Bridge, the building of the Grand Street station, and the creation of the Essex Street turn-off for KK and later K trains (and now used by M-trains) to access the IND's Sxith Avenue line, was complete - F-trains then traveled regularly to Coney Island. The IND's B train traveled along the West End line to Coney Island. The D-trains terminal's did not really change - however the D-train was moved to the Brighton Beach line as its "normal hours" express route with M and QB trains operating as local trains, off-peak D-trains made all stops.

 

The Culver Street shuttle between the Ninth Avenue station and the F-train's Ditmas Avenue station operated for about 2 decades, before being removed from existence. The 1970's fiscal crisis lead to many changes in the city.

 

Generally trains from the Culver line, and the Third Avenue el line provided service along the BMT's Fifth Avenue line. Under various schemes at the time, some Culver line trains traveled to/from Manhattan via Nassau Street or the Nassau Street loop via the Manhattan Bridge. The various route schemes changed over time. The BMT Third Avenue line met its demise with the building of Robert Moses' Gowanus Expressway where some of the pillars originated with the Third Avenue El line.

 

There are several decent books about the NYC Subway, and New York City history - read up.

 

Mike

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Again this track map still features the (Mx), but it shows you what happened after the Chrystie Street Connection. Compare this track map to the pre Chrystie Street Connection Map I posted earlier.

detail-canal.png

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:tup::tup: thanks everybody :)

 

did anybody realize the former security-cam (E) set is now back at JY? 8713-8717 now has the regular seats again.

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:tup::tup: thanks everybody :)

 

did anybody realize the former security-cam (E) set is now back at JY? 8713-8717 now has the regular seats again.

 

Old news, I saw it at CIYD getting it's old seats several weeks ago.

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It didn't. As mentioned on the NYC Subway.org website the (D) never ran on the Brighton Line till the opening of the Chrystie Street Connection.

 

Links to the maps would be fine. Stop posting the images here unless you own them. You are wasting the owner's bandwidth by linking the images here.

 

Old news, I saw it at CIYD getting it's old seats several weeks ago.

 

Well, looks like that question I asked a while back on would they change the seats back has been answered. Sucks I never got to get pics of it, but from the looks of them, I wouldn't have wanted to sit on them.

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I heard on SubChat that 4648 was involved in a head-on collision in 2010. The MTA ordered a new front unpainted for the bus. They probably didn't paint it because either they needed that bus to be in service or they wanted to save money. 4158 out of JFK is also white fronted.

Hope this helped?

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Again this track map still features the (Mx), but it shows you what happened after the Chrystie Street Connection. Compare this track map to the pre Chrystie Street Connection Map I posted earlier.

detail-canal.png

This map is wrong. There was never a two track dead end on the unused side of Canal. J1 branches off of the newly connected J4, and connects to the track against the wall. And J3 (in the middle) has been completely removed.

(And this is Dougherty's map on NYCsubway.org and not someone's fantasy suggestion?)

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