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Which lines interline with 319 and 551 or 552??


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What they should really do is cut 409 service north of Burlington Town Centre except for nighttime trips and maybe a couple rush hour trips.

 

As for the 419, if its ridership is as anemic as the 409, it should be axed during the daytime. Remember, the RiverLINE is a 1-zone fare, while all these bus routes cost more in addition to being slower.

 

Or axe the night service altogether and provide dedicated RiverLINE shuttle buses.

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+QUOTE=Amtrak7;435170]What they should really do is cut 409 service north of Burlington Town Centre except for nighttime trips and maybe a couple rush hour trips.

 

As for the 419, if its ridership is as anemic as the 409, it should be axed during the daytime. Remember, the RiverLINE is a 1-zone fare, while all these bus routes cost more in addition to being slower.

 

Or axe the night service altogether and provide dedicated RiverLINE shuttle buses.

 

Or re route 409 to Quaker bridge mall replacing a segment of the 603 and 609 then rerouting 603 over 609 segment to trenton transit center. then reduce the 609 accordingly. Take the robling-burlington segment of 409 then transfer that segment to an extended 455 or 457(if rerouted away from camden)

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There is no need to send the 409 deeper into Mercer County territory. Your already asking for too much from Newton Av. The 409 is only an option when the RiverLine has problems and when the last trains leave Trenton & Camden. The 409 shouldnt even be going into Philly let alone some mall.

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What they should really do is cut 409 service north of Burlington Town Centre except for nighttime trips and maybe a couple rush hour trips.

 

As for the 419, if its ridership is as anemic as the 409, it should be axed during the daytime. Remember, the RiverLINE is a 1-zone fare, while all these bus routes cost more in addition to being slower.

 

Or axe the night service altogether and provide dedicated RiverLINE shuttle buses.

 

 

instead of axe 419 outright reroute it to eliminate duplication reroute service south of rte 73 pennasuken to rte 73 then 130 then all the way to woodbury creating a crosstown bus. North of burlington extend via rte 130 to hamilton marketplace eliminating complete duplication of riverline. send it over I195 to freehold and absorb 833 or asbury park as a faster version of 317 (sort of) then absorb part of 832. When my NJT plan is complete I will figure it out.

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There is no need to send the 409 deeper into Mercer County territory. Your already asking for too much from Newton Av. The 409 is only an option when the RiverLine has problems and when the last trains leave Trenton & Camden. The 409 shouldnt even be going into Philly let alone some mall.

 

In the contrary its split with hamilton or transfered to hamilton garage. Also 409 gets rerouted away from philly to avoid duplication. I am still thinking of ways to eliminate its duplication and bring ridership up. The 409 is transfered away from newton and split with hamilton and washington garages. I have thought of several alternatives and Am still in the thinking process

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From my limited experiences, w/e riders the 409 get in Philly... the majority of em get off @ WRTC... It's one of those things where, if you have multiple routes that serve the same two points, you're gonna take the first bus that comes....

 

I don't get the sense that extending it past TTC won't yield many, if any, more riders.... of the few times I've rode it out to Trenton, 3 of those times, I've been the only passenger getting off the bus..... That tells me something....

 

Hell, you (QJT) yourself stated that the 409 is like a combination of local routes... why would you wanna make it like (1 more local route) to the combination of local routes it would FEEL like....

 

 

 

Those 400 routes... keep them @ Camden (Newton av garage).... there's not as much of a need to worry about deadheads, and having routes run out of multiple depots & what not....

 

...because NJ isn't crying broke (regarding transit) like the MTA here in NY is...

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From my limited experiences, w/e riders the 409 get in Philly... the majority of em get off @ WRTC... It's one of those things where, if you have multiple routes that serve the same two points, you're gonna take the first bus that comes....

 

I don't get the sense that extending it past TTC won't yield many, if any, more riders.... of the few times I've rode it out to Trenton, 3 of those times, I've been the only passenger getting off the bus..... That tells me something....

 

Hell, you (QJT) yourself stated that the 409 is like a combination of local routes... why would you wanna make it like (1 more local route) to the combination of local routes it would FEEL like....

 

 

 

Those 400 routes... keep them @ Camden (Newton av garage).... there's not as much of a need to worry about deadheads, and having routes run out of multiple depots & what not....

 

...because NJ isn't crying broke (regarding transit) like the MTA here in NY is...

 

well actually I plan on breaking the rte into a streamlined version of itself since rte 130 coorridor already has several other buses that cross it to reach camden 409 has no need to travel there anymore. I actually have more NJT travel experiences than you here however. I know the 409's segments the burlington-robeling segment is cut and transfered to another rte via streamlined version of 457. Then the trenton -robeling segment is rerouted to quaker bridge mall via whitehourse ave and quaker bridge rd replacing the 603 on that segment then 603 is rerouted to be streamlined by instead travelling along the 609 segment instead towards trenton. The 609 is slightly reduced but offset by 409 and 603 rerouting. Then the streamlined 409 can become the rte 73 bus creating a fast rte there and may take a few cars off the rd Via the park and ride at pennsahauken. In order to complete this the 417 is routed over I-95 and rte 90 to become faster and bypass rte 130 traffic. Service on 417 is enhanced yes it is mostly FULL when I used it. And very few ppl in camden use 417!!!! The 417 gets extended and becomes an express variant of the 317 being 1 hour faster to asbury and 30 mins faster than 317 to lakewood in addition to adding frequent limited stop service to 130 corridor. The B1 is truncated at mt holly service beyond is provided by 417 the 417 will serve rte 70 to lakewood via rte 9 and its for those who dont want to go via ft dix but still want to travel past it.

 

 

 

 

I-195 corridor gets express service. My theme for NJ is reduce travel time and create new express rtes via combination of local rtes in otherwise ISOLATED areas that are linked by a highway increasing revenue potential. Allowing NJT to operate more in grid formation. Without eliminating the strengths of spoke and hub. NJT personnel contacted me due to what he heard me say.

 

 

 

A police officer told me I should hurry up and help curb some service cuts after speaking. I admit I suck with urban bus rtes but I am way better with suburban long distance lines. That is why I have no plan for NYC but I do have CT,NJ and MD as I convert lines into distance lines that have increased farebox recovery. I increase the maximum revenue rtes can generate via zone based extensions. That is why my plan doesnt work in NYC with flat fare structure.:cool:

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Way too much strawmanning in all of that for me to care to bother addressing...

At this point, I don't care about ANY specifics of whatever it is you "plan" on suggesting...

 

All I'm sayin, regarding the matter is.... If you knew as much as you claim to about the 409, you wouldn't have made that statement about Riverline being double tracked.... Nor would you have made posts #70 & #72 in this thread....

 

I believe 553(Bridgeton) when he says the 409 is a backup type of service, to Riverline... You want to turn the route into something entirely different for no apparent JUSTIFIABLE reason... I'm not makin this a pissing contest (*I done NJT more than you have*)... I'm not challenging no one in a game of knowledge... that's not what I'm about....

 

If an NJT bus operator's comments goes along w/ my findings as well, then I have ZERO reason to heed & believe what anyone else says, regarding a particular route....

 

I'm rootin for the home team...

You can keep up the pipe dreams.

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These ideas are insane dude. I understand you want to *help*(for free) njt but whoever(higher up) wants to adhear to those plans then he/she must be on dog food because you are just jumping into some reroute without any info in the areas. Ive been on most of the South Jersey routes and listen those plans will never work. Why would you extend a 409 to some place? It wont be anymore useful then it is now. The riverline very rarely has problems and reducing midday service(409) is the only logical thing to do. And have the majority of the service run after the last riverline train or have a nite service.

 

You even brought the 317 and 836 into the mix. Anyone whos been on a 317 will know this is more then insane.

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These ideas are insane dude. I understand you want to *help*(for free) njt but whoever(higher up) wants to adhear to those plans then he/she must be on dog food because you are just jumping into some reroute without any info in the areas. Ive been on most of the South Jersey routes and listen those plans will never work. Why would you extend a 409 to some place? It wont be anymore useful then it is now. The riverline very rarely has problems and reducing midday service(409) is the only logical thing to do. And have the majority of the service run after the last riverline train or have a nite service.

 

You even brought the 317 and 836 into the mix. Anyone whos been on a 317 will know this is more then insane.

 

actually I already abandoned the 409 part cause the line is too long!!! sorry I already said that the southern part was incomplete. The northwest one is complete not the southern cause its difficult. Actually the idea is add alternatives to the 317 the 836 IS NOT INCLUDED!!!!!! My complete ideas include atlantic cty and south jersey streamlining. The 409 I admit was beyond unpredictable I did not know its ridership was so low. so yeah go ahead reducing it will allow other rtes to gain service:cool: Especially the 553 who needs more or at least another variant. And wilmington needs service too. Atlantic city service can be accelerated:cool: I had no time to think about 409 cause that was last min. The other lines I planned are more logical so I wont mention them here cause its too much:cool: I know how bad 317 is???

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Way too much strawmanning in all of that for me to care to bother addressing...

At this point, I don't care about ANY specifics of whatever it is you "plan" on suggesting...

 

All I'm sayin, regarding the matter is.... If you knew as much as you claim to about the 409, you wouldn't have made that statement about Riverline being double tracked.... Nor would you have made posts #70 & #72 in this thread....

 

I believe 553(Bridgeton) when he says the 409 is a backup type of service, to Riverline... You want to turn the route into something entirely different for no apparent JUSTIFIABLE reason... I'm not makin this a pissing contest (*I done NJT more than you have*)... I'm not challenging no one in a game of knowledge... that's not what I'm about....

 

If an NJT bus operator's comments goes along w/ my findings as well, then I have ZERO reason to heed & believe what anyone else says, regarding a particular route....

 

I'm rootin for the home team...

You can keep up the pipe dreams.

I actually know more about other NJT lines the 409 isnt one of em oops:cool:

 

reducing 409 will actually make my plans easier to implement!!!!!!!

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There is no need to send the 409 deeper into Mercer County territory. Your already asking for too much from Newton Av. The 409 is only an option when the RiverLine has problems and when the last trains leave Trenton & Camden. The 409 shouldnt even be going into Philly let alone some mall.

Interesting tell me about 419 and 457 reliability.

Im sorry but those service ideas are insane.

 

These ideas are insane dude. I understand you want to *help*(for free) njt but whoever(higher up) wants to adhear to those plans then he/she must be on dog food because you are just jumping into some reroute without any info in the areas. Ive been on most of the South Jersey routes and listen those plans will never work. Why would you extend a 409 to some place? It wont be anymore useful then it is now. The riverline very rarely has problems and reducing midday service(409) is the only logical thing to do. And have the majority of the service run after the last riverline train or have a nite service.

 

You even brought the 317 and 836 into the mix. Anyone whos been on a 317 will know this is more then insane.

 

thx you gave me new ideas actually if the 409 gets shortened then the robeling-burlington segment is 15 mins rather than 30 all the way. Looks Like I have an idea for faster service. The 409 plan I did not give to the NJT guy actually I only gave the 320 extension idea. And the 550 series lines ideas I was a bit skeptical about the 4xx lines not including the 450 series that is why I only gave partial piecies since I knew some were flawed. I eliminated some parts of my previous plans as I relooked and found they didnt make sense. Some included 150 series but that part was abandoned due to unreliability. and underestimating the 700 crosstowns 712 ect. I only have a final plan for CT NOT NJ or MD as NJ has too many factors and MD is modifing rtes all over. So yeah looks like 409 shortening means a small segment can be transfered to 457(after loosing the church rd segment). The 409 and 419 however can be slightly modded. Question is I-295 ever really jammed??? when you did 318 runs??? I have only started looking into 409 so the first set of ideas will appear wild. I will come up with several alternatives then you be the judge ok. If a rte ur not familiar with is presented then get someone to give data. I also learned that the 320 has very high ridership for the short rte it is. Also if the mergers were done to 320 then minimum ridership on 320 would have been rivaling the 553. From the data I recieved. 193 line a rush hr only rte has more ridership than some full time rtes very interesting.:cool:

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Because it's the way NJT planned it! LOL.

 

I'm sorry bro but I gotta speak my piece with respect.

Before you was talking about extending the 320 further up to someplace. Not a chance in HELL will that happen. As far as I have air in my lungs, The sky is blue, and Pres. Bush is a jackass, there will be no way, AND THE JOKAPLAYA MEANS NO WAY, that the 320, as extensively busy as it is, even at 1am in the morning, will ever have any type of route changes. Hell, it's starting to get busy NOW. It's TOURIST SEASON! All the Harmon Meadow hotels (Hilton Garden Inn, Courtyard by Marriott, Embassy Suites, etc.....) are going to get busy and busy in a super hurry. NJT will have extra buses out on the 320 too. How do I know that? If the run number say 901 or more, it's a extra bus. and that's with ALL lines: if the run number says 901 or more (902, 903, etc), it's a Extra bus. 900 is only used for training buses and training purposes ONLY. The weekends will be a horror show getting to and from NYC.

 

My friend, I applaud you for trying to help, but if you want to help, get on these routes, see the ridership, talk to the operators, talk to the regional supervisors that look out during that area, talk to the starters in PABT, GWB Bus Station, and Atlantic City Bus Terminal. And for one, try to get to WORK for NJT so you don't waste your time and you actually get PAID for it. I wanna help but I wanna get some pay for the help. And talk to the passengers. See what they need, and come to a idea of what people NEED, not want, NEED. They can't have a bus drop them off at their house. It has to be at a designated bus stop. Talk to the law enforcement in that town too so they can tell you why they want the buses going that way.

 

I'm not getting on you for helping, but I gotta say, until you get ya feet wet, you'll never know what water is. Until you actually ride the over 300 routes that NJT has, it's hard to say what can or can not get changed. Believe operators like 553, former operators like myself, and other passengers that have been there like B35 and Amtrak7

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:cool:

Because it's the way NJT planned it! LOL.

 

I'm sorry bro but I gotta speak my piece with respect.

Before you was talking about extending the 320 further up to someplace. Not a chance in HELL will that happen. As far as I have air in my lungs, The sky is blue, and Pres. Bush is a jackass, there will be no way, AND THE JOKAPLAYA MEANS NO WAY, that the 320, as extensively busy as it is, even at 1am in the morning, will ever have any type of route changes. Hell, it's starting to get busy NOW. It's TOURIST SEASON! All the Harmon Meadow hotels (Hilton Garden Inn, Courtyard by Marriott, Embassy Suites, etc.....) are going to get busy and busy in a super hurry. NJT will have extra buses out on the 320 too. How do I know that? If the run number say 901 or more, it's a extra bus. and that's with ALL lines: if the run number says 901 or more (902, 903, etc), it's a Extra bus. 900 is only used for training buses and training purposes ONLY. The weekends will be a horror show getting to and from NYC.

 

My friend, I applaud you for trying to help, but if you want to help, get on these routes, see the ridership, talk to the operators, talk to the regional supervisors that look out during that area, talk to the starters in PABT, GWB Bus Station, and Atlantic City Bus Terminal. And for one, try to get to WORK for NJT so you don't waste your time and you actually get PAID for it. I wanna help but I wanna get some pay for the help. And talk to the passengers. See what they need, and come to a idea of what people NEED, not want, NEED. They can't have a bus drop them off at their house. It has to be at a designated bus stop. Talk to the law enforcement in that town too so they can tell you why they want the buses going that way.

 

I'm not getting on you for helping, but I gotta say, until you get ya feet wet, you'll never know what water is. Until you actually ride the over 300 routes that NJT has, it's hard to say what can or can not get changed. Believe operators like 553, former operators like myself, and other passengers that have been there like B35 and Amtrak7

 

ya got a point about 320 just wanted to absorb lines however it would be easier to use other rtes I actually corrected that part The only reason why my first plan included 320 was because of its busy nature it would increase travel options to harmon cove from NWNJ then connect with 2 other rtes that move upward like 304 but absorbing segments from 700 series lines then having em turn to express rtes to Newark or the airport with a stop at harmon cove for linking the extended 320 so the line will serve multiple purposes afterall 320 is a very short rte. This increases express travel options as well the name of the game is speed and creating several options for express service between different activity centers WITHIN NJ not just NJ to NY.:cool: THANKS MAN I will do all of that I actually talked to a few. I also learned about certain rtes from info the zucker guy gave me. Now I just need to get an NJT job. But does NJT directly hire internal consultants??? or use contractors??? Dont ya need a degree for this??? Cause I dont have one now

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:cool:

 

ya got a point about 320 just wanted to absorb lines however it would be easier to use other rtes I actually corrected that part The only reason why my first plan included 320 was because of its busy nature it would increase travel options to harmon cove from NWNJ then connect with 2 other rtes that move upward like 304 but absorbing segments from 700 series lines then having em turn to express rtes to Newark or the airport with a stop at harmon cove for linking the extended 320 so the line will serve multiple purposes afterall 320 is a very short rte. This increases express travel options as well the name of the game is speed and creating several options for express service between different activity centers WITHIN NJ not just NJ to NY.:cool: THANKS MAN I will do all of that I actually talked to a few. I also learned about certain rtes from info the zucker guy gave me. Now I just need to get an NJT job. But does NJT directly hire internal consultants??? or use contractors??? Dont ya need a degree for this??? Cause I dont have one now

 

Good luck with that....you wanted to destroy NYC's route fixtures and now you're gonna destroy NJT's????

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Good luck with that....you wanted to destroy NYC's route fixtures and now you're gonna destroy NJT's????

 

NAH be I had more knowledge about NJT's rtes than NYC to begin with so None of my plans destroy just speed up and restructure. You never heard me nor saw my NJ ideas nor even the real parts so seriously dont prejudge. O AND GET OFF MY BACK BUDDY NOW UR JUST GETTING RUDE IT IS NO LONDER ABOUT ADVICE AND CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM NOW THESE ARE JUST PERSONAL ATTACKS STOP ACTING LIKE AN ARROGANT PERSON AND KNOW THE WHOLE THING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME NOW STFU:mad::cool:

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NAH be I had more knowledge about NJT's rtes than NYC to begin with so None of my plans destroy just speed up and restructure. You never heard me nor saw my NJ ideas nor even the real parts so seriously dont prejudge. O AND GET OFF MY BACK BUDDY NOW UR JUST GETTING RUDE IT IS NO LONDER ABOUT ADVICE AND CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM NOW THESE ARE JUST PERSONAL ATTACKS STOP ACTING LIKE AN ARROGANT PERSON AND KNOW THE WHOLE THING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME NOW STFU:mad::cool:

 

You calling someone arrogant....hypocrite much!

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NAH be I had more knowledge about NJT's rtes than NYC to begin with so None of my plans destroy just speed up and restructure. You never heard me nor saw my NJ ideas nor even the real parts so seriously dont prejudge. O AND GET OFF MY BACK BUDDY NOW UR JUST GETTING RUDE IT IS NO LONDER ABOUT ADVICE AND CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM NOW THESE ARE JUST PERSONAL ATTACKS STOP ACTING LIKE AN ARROGANT PERSON AND KNOW THE WHOLE THING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME NOW STFU:mad::cool:

 

Calm down dude. This is a good thread and its great info for the other peeps here.

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You calling someone arrogant....hypocrite much!

 

nevermind I am only here to get data if ur not going to help dont reply to me ya know I have little tolerance for prejudging that was what cait was doing. That I dont like. Make corrections to my ideas with ur own ideas I like to gain data but to just prejudge me without knowing my intentions is beyond offensive!!!! That is like a personal attack. If you can bring in wisdom thats good but to just putdown something ya dont know is just wrong:cool:

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More attention needs to be brought to the lack of local bus service in and around Toms River. None of these new route change ideas address that.

I believe the 559 uses only 40 footers and with the hourly headways crowding is a huge problem. Most riders go between 2 portions of the route, Toms River-Lakewood and Toms River-Points south.

I believe the 559 should terminate at Toms River, with a new route between Lakewood and Toms River, via route 9, that would run every 30 minutes instead of hourly. It could be contracted to Academy, which already has a depot along that route.

Being the most traveled part of the route, the shorter distance and better headways will mean better on time performance.

The other issue is the severe lack of service along Rt.549 between Toms River, Brick, and Lakewood. Only the 67 (which runs at odd 2 hour or so intervals) and Ocean Ride (which only serves up to the mall) run this route, despite many major commercial areas, shopping centers, and a college.

Now the 317 does serve the portion between Brick and Lakewood, but not to Toms River. My suggestion is to run more 137 trips as locals between Brick and Toms River (via Rt.549 service). So when combined with the 67 the service is hourly between Toms River and Brick.

Brick seems to have a severe lack of bus service period, and that needs to be looked at, as Brick has a similar amount of population as TR.

Ocean Ride is a joke and needs to be taken over by NJT, but perhaps contracted, but with a better schedule. I would like to see Toms River-Lakehurst via 37 service, a crosstown of sorts.

Suffolk County here on LI is similar to Ocean County in alot of ways, but has much better route coverage and service levels. Most of Ocean County isn't even accessible by bus, which is sad.

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More attention needs to be brought to the lack of local bus service in and around Toms River. None of these new route change ideas address that.

I believe the 559 uses only 40 footers and with the hourly headways crowding is a huge problem. Most riders go between 2 portions of the route, Toms River-Lakewood and Toms River-Points south.

I believe the 559 should terminate at Toms River, with a new route between Lakewood and Toms River, via route 9, that would run every 30 minutes instead of hourly. It could be contracted to Academy, which already has a depot along that route.

Being the most traveled part of the route, the shorter distance and better headways will mean better on time performance.

The other issue is the severe lack of service along Rt.549 between Toms River, Brick, and Lakewood. Only the 67 (which runs at odd 2 hour or so intervals) and Ocean Ride (which only serves up to the mall) run this route, despite many major commercial areas, shopping centers, and a college.

Now the 317 does serve the portion between Brick and Lakewood, but not to Toms River. My suggestion is to run more 137 trips as locals between Brick and Toms River (via Rt.549 service). So when combined with the 67 the service is hourly between Toms River and Brick.

Brick seems to have a severe lack of bus service period, and that needs to be looked at, as Brick has a similar amount of population as TR.

Ocean Ride is a joke and needs to be taken over by NJT, but perhaps contracted, but with a better schedule. I would like to see Toms River-Lakehurst via 37 service, a crosstown of sorts.

Suffolk County here on LI is similar to Ocean County in alot of ways, but has much better route coverage and service levels. Most of Ocean County isn't even accessible by bus, which is sad.

 

I knew I wasn't the only one who thinks ocean county needed improvement. Actually my completed plan addresses ALL of these issues that you brought up. However not via new rtes but extensions of existing rtes which makes ALL of ocean cty accesible by bus. Did you know NJT planned a rte from toms river to newark airport??? They were gonna call it the 60. Heck I think it should be implemented then extended into burlington county via rte 70 the line will replace toms river connection western segment then act as the crosstown via rte 37 in ocean and rte 70 in burlington. Actually oceanride has excellent route coverage but coverage means nothing if the service is BEYOND AWFUL!!!!! seriously its worse than SALEM!!!!! When ur network is worse than salem or even SUSSEX you know ur transit FAILS HARDCORE. Pinepower How frequent should 559 be south of toms river??? The real reason why 559 is late is it's interlining with the unreliable 553. the 553 literally destroys the 559 unfortunately as stated earlier all 559 trips are actually 553!!!!

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