Hoyt-Schermerhorn info

[Jim]

Exactly..

 

And it used to be that stopping a train was a bit of an art. Now its all jerky. Almost as bad are the phony announcer voices. Much rather hear a new york accent than feel like I am listening to the local TV news.

[Kendell]

Cant they just make a new sation On the Line? Instead Of having 1 transfer to the they should just make 2 Stations that can be transferd to the Line.

Im Not sure of this but did the KK run on the line or on a seprate line.

If there is another line The Can run to Long Is Court Sq Day time only and run to Myrtle Ave Whcoffs st On The Line late Nights.That Would at least stop fighting on the line

[INDman]

Joe, Abba, Roadcruiser:

 

Do any of you have any info on the slope of tracks entering/existing H-S station? Or a guess on the minimum length of track for a switch between tracks at platform width?

 

There is not way a track connection could be built between the Crosstown line and the Fulton St Line. The IND built connections everywhere and the system was really "over built", if a connection could have been built, it would have been long ago. When the Crosstown heads north, it sinks down right away to go under the Fulton St Line.

[Jim]

There is not way a track connection could be built between the Crosstown line and the Fulton St Line. The IND built connections everywhere and the system was really "over built", if a connection could have been built, it would have been long ago. When the Crosstown heads north, it sinks down right away to go under the Fulton St Line.

 

Do you know how much track distance is needed for a single switch with a platform width between tracks?

[INDman]

Do you know how much track distance is needed for a single switch with a platform width between tracks?

 

Not off hand, but there are places like 36th St on the BMT where the switch that goes to the line is less then 10 Ft from the platform. But what difference does that make?

[TwoTimer]

Not off hand, but there are places like 36th St on the BMT where the switch that goes to the line is less then 10 Ft from the platform. But what difference does that make?

 

He's hell bent on finding a way to fit that switch in even if some platform had to be shaved off since the 10 isnt at the end of the platform in that station (which oh btw would mess up the signals in the area as there are express/local switches both directions less than a carlength from the marker)

[Jim]

Not off hand, but there are places like 36th St on the BMT where the switch that goes to the line is less then 10 Ft from the platform. But what difference does that make?

Its also a question of how much track is needed, because the platforms at Hoyt Schermerhorn are 660' and they could be reduced to the 615' BMT standard to accommodate a switch.

[INDman]

Its also a question of how much track is needed, because the platforms at Hoyt Schermerhorn are 660' and they could be reduced to the 615' BMT standard to accommodate a switch.

 

Even if that was done, you still can't make a connection because of the grade. Face it, this will never happen and your beating a dead horse. The line is fine the way it is other then it needing shorter headways.

[Jim]

Even if that was done, you still can't make a connection because of the grade. Face it, this will never happen and your beating a dead horse. The line is fine the way it is other then it needing shorter headways.

 

Well its not really fine because it is only far cars and the L is overcrowded. It is a waste of infrastructure and development. But I am sure I am not going to convince anyone, nor am I here to try.

 

I would just like to get some factual data on the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station and switch lengths. Whether the idea is a good one or not is probably decided by people who have more experience in such matters than any of us.

[Roadcruiser1]

There are people on this forum that work for the . They certainly know more then what you are thinking and saying, and there are architects and engineers on these forums too.

[Roadcruiser1]

Also the doesn't need any new stations or a new transfer to the . The current one is sufficient. If there is any new transfers for the I suggest building a transfer from Broadway to Hewes Street where riders can transfer to the & .

[Roadcruiser1]

You could have the run more frequently. Most of the time the , and parallels each other.

[Jim]

My only point is that the is underused and the reason is because it doesn't go places people want to go. The simple solution is to send a train into Manhattan via the line.

 

Also, I looked at the rush hour schedule. The line departs every 6-9 minutes and the every 10 minutes, so there should be plenty of capacity for the on these tracks.

 

Regardless of this, I am really more interested in the engineering required to make the switch between the lines.

 

It would be good to get a section detail of the ends of the station.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[Roadcruiser1]

So you are suggesting to have some sort of Manhattan bound service use the Crosstown Line is that correct, because if you are that subway line would have to make a huge U turn to get to Manhattan. I don't think that would be efficient, but then again the does it, but I don't know.

[Jim]

So you are suggesting to have some sort of Manhattan bound service use the Crosstown Line is that correct, because if you are that subway line would have to make a huge U turn to get to Manhattan. I don't think that would be efficient, but then again the does it, but I don't know.

 

I'm suggesting that the train go into Brooklyn with the but travel north up the line after Hoyt Schermerhorn, the way the presently does south of Hoyt Schermerhorn.

[Roadcruiser1]

Isn't the Cranberry Tunnel fully used. Why don't you just use the from the Second Avenue Subway, and have it run into the Rutgers Street Tunnel with the , and have it branch off, and run onto the Crosstown Line there?

[MikeGerald]

Transit fans often tend to look at the track maps, and believe that a switch can be put in place "anywhere" - but that is not actually the case. There is the tunnel to consider, the tunnel roof has to be supported over the span of the switch and that HAS to be considered with the placement of switches and other track equipment.

 

Now some subway tunnels are arched bored tunnels where the archway of the tunnel-itself supports the ceiling, and the streets above. Other subway tunnels - many of them in fact can be considered to be rectangular boxes with steel and concrete columns between the tracks. In essence the entire rectangular structure and steel/concrete columns support the weight of the roof of the tunnel and the streets above the subway. One can not simply "knock-out" those columns for given lengths without affecting the structural integrity of the whole subway tunnel.

 

When the subway systems are designed, the track planners and subway tunnel planners WORK TOGETHER to make sure that track switch placements and other equipment are place with a structural tunnel design appropriate to the site.

 

Or in plain english - as one looks out of the windows of the A, C, or G trains as they enter and leave the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station - and one thinks about placing switches between those tracks - ever wonder where all of those steel and concrete support columns are going to go?

 

Just wondering.

Mike

[Jim]

Transit fans often tend to look at the track maps, and believe that a switch can be put in place "anywhere" - but that is not actually the case. There is the tunnel to consider, the tunnel roof has to be supported over the span of the switch and that HAS to be considered with the placement of switches and other track equipment.

 

Now some subway tunnels are arched bored tunnels where the archway of the tunnel-itself supports the ceiling, and the streets above. Other subway tunnels - many of them in fact can be considered to be rectangular boxes with steel and concrete columns between the tracks. In essence the entire rectangular structure and steel/concrete columns support the weight of the roof of the tunnel and the streets above the subway. One can not simply "knock-out" those columns for given lengths without affecting the structural integrity of the whole subway tunnel.

 

When the subway systems are designed, the track planners and subway tunnel planners WORK TOGETHER to make sure that track switch placements and other equipment are place with a structural tunnel design appropriate to the site.

 

Or in plain english - as one looks out of the windows of the A, C, or G trains as they enter and leave the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station - and one thinks about placing switches between those tracks - ever wonder where all of those steel and concrete support columns are going to go?

 

Just wondering.

Mike

 

Yeah, I took the line the other day and saw what you were describing. That's why I was trying to find out the minimum switch length. My first idea is to shorten the subway platforms 45' on each side. Hopefully that would provide enough extra room to install a single track switch on each end.

[4P3607]

I am not saying get rid of the G. Any maybe you're right, but the G is only 4 cars for a reason. Yet the L is 10 cars and completely full and people are running from the G to the L at Lorimer. So being able to take advantage of the 10 car platform infrastructure to move people into Manhattan would take pressure off of other lines and also help economically develop the stops the G services to the north of H-S.

 

Since when were the R143 5 car sets?

[TwoTimer]

Only feasible way is to abandon the station, rip out the platforms and put a pair of switches smack in the middle of where the platform used to be. Its not like the station is needed anymore now that the G would stop at jay

[Jim]

Only feasible way is to abandon the station, rip out the platforms and put a pair of switches smack in the middle of where the platform used to be. Its not like the station is needed anymore now that the G would stop at jay

 

Thanks for this. Do you know how long the switch track lengths would be at minimum then?

[Roadcruiser1]

Well he's a train operator that works for the you should listen to his advice.

[Jim]

Well he's a train operator that works for the you should listen to his advice.

 

Yeah, I am. But my point in posting this topic really is more about engineering information than discussing whether it is a good idea or not.

[Roadcruiser1]

When you figure that out let us know your idea, and we will tell you if it's feasible or not.

[Jim]

When you figure that out let us know your idea, and we will tell you if it's feasible or not.

 

I appreciate it. I do have a very high level of respect for the men and women that run the subway system. Please don't take my doggedness on figuring out this problem as anything less than that.