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Loss of local bus service to Union Square


Via Garibaldi 8

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Got it a little confused there. The old M14D went through the Con Ed plant (Avenue D->14 St, whereas the old M14C bypassed it (Avenue D->East 10 St->Avenue C->East 14 St). But after 9/11, the relabeled the M14C the "new" M14D, and the "old" M14D was dropped. I remember that perfectly cuz I used to live in Baruch Houses between 2000-2002

 

Back when there were RTSs :cool:

 

I had a feeling it was that, but I couldnt remember at the time because my main line has always been the 14A out of the three.

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Little off-topic, I found interest comment on my petition I made about B51 and B39 bus.

http://www.myonlinepetition.com/petition/86/SAVE+THE+B51+Bus/

http://www.myonlinepetition.com/petition/81/Save+the+B39+bus./

 

yuki seriously they will extend select Q46 trips before bringing back B39!!!!

 

B51 was mostly students asian ones. I know I used it the line only warrented rush hour service as barely anyone used it they would rather extend B61 or 69 select trips to manhattan before even thinking of bringing back B51. By the way those B51 peeps were beyond arrogant racist ******** those bitches got what they deserved. Most of em treated me very badly. And some even tried to threaten harassment for no reason thats why I had no simpathy for most of em. The ridership never justified the B51 maybe an extension yes but full restoration not even close.:cool:

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yuki seriously they will extend select Q46 trips before bringing back B39!!!!

 

B51 was mostly students asian ones. I know I used it the line only warrented rush hour service as barely anyone used it they would rather extend B61 or 69 select trips to manhattan before even thinking of bringing back B51. By the way those B51 peeps were beyond arrogant racist ******** those bitches got what they deserved. Most of em treated me very badly. And some even tried to threaten harassment for no reason thats why I had no simpathy for most of em. The ridership never justified the B51 maybe an extension yes but full restoration not even close.:cool:

 

Oh Bulls*** dude....

 

Majority of B51 riders were elderly (elderly Black Women to be exact)....

And ridership was GROWING on that route, before it was cut.....

 

At worst, it should have been relegated to a rush hour only route.... That's the ONLY thing out of that rant of yours I'll agree with...

 

There were very few Asian riders that would ride it b/w Bowery & Downtown Brooklyn....

Find another reason to push your agenda on "Asian students".....

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Oh Bulls*** dude....

 

Majority of B51 riders were elderly (elderly Black Women to be exact).... And ridership was GROWING on that route, before it was cut..... At worst, it should have been relegated to a rush hour only route.....

 

There were very few Asian riders that would ride it b/w Bowery & Downtown Brooklyn....

 

Post # 5697087080 for his which doesn't make any kind of sense and no truth behind his post. Now I see another thread being closed b/c of foolishness and garbage of a post....SMDH. Only a few HS school students rode the B51 into Manhattan regardless of what race they are!

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Oh Bulls*** dude....

 

Majority of B51 riders were elderly (elderly Black Women to be exact).... And ridership was GROWING on that route, before it was cut..... At worst, it should have been relegated to a rush hour only route.....

 

There were very few Asian riders that would ride it b/w Bowery & Downtown Brooklyn....

 

Find another reason to push your agenda on "Asian students".....

 

Agreed. Not to mention it could be extended to BMCC/Battery Park City as well and say run between 5th Ave/9th Street (old (B77) terminal) and BMCC via City Hall/Park Row,

 

The (B57)should have only been extended if any to LIU College Medical Center on Columbia St/Atlantic the (B63) terminal.

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Agreed. Not to mention it could be extended to BMCC/Battery Park City as well and say run between 5th Ave/9th Street (old (B77) terminal) and BMCC via City Hall/Park Row,

 

The (B57)should have only been extended if any to LIU College Medical Center on Columbia St/Atlantic the (B63) terminal.

I would have extended it to BMCC, and left its Downtown Brooklyn terminal (same exact terminal as the B65 btw) alone....

 

 

Post # 5697087080 for his which doesn't make any kind of sense and no truth behind his post. Now I see another thread being closed b/c of foolishness and garbage of a post....SMDH. Only a few HS school students rode the B51 into Manhattan regardless of what race they are!

*see reply to Shortline, above*

 

I really do think that route could've obtained more riders if it directly served BMCC... it could've ate up w/e BMCC students that were sick of taking the (2) or the (3) downtown for the B25/26/38/52's of the world, as well as (continuing to) serve the more elderly folks that work around City Hall (my grandmother is one of them, but she's not a bus person... lol) that are not as able to freely take the train (which was the main basis behind the B51's existence anyway).....

 

I'd love to see him, or anyone else refute that.

 

 

When I took B51 before Doomsday Cut, there was lots of Chinese (not only student, adult also.)

 

Must have been for a specific reason... b/c Asians were no where near the predominant group of riders on that route, on either end of the route...

 

Maybe that was their way of tryna save the route? If it was, props to them !

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Oh Bulls*** dude....

 

Majority of B51 riders were elderly (elderly Black Women to be exact)....

And ridership was GROWING on that route, before it was cut.....

 

At worst, it should have been relegated to a rush hour only route.... That's the ONLY thing out of that rant of yours I'll agree with...

 

There were very few Asian riders that would ride it b/w Bowery & Downtown Brooklyn....

Find another reason to push your agenda on "Asian students".....

 

FINE you win If ridership was growing then the rte should come back but this WAS YEARS AGO IN 2008 Not today I was a student. So I only saw it at rush hour but it should at least interline with other downtown BK rtes. That Is what I would rather have than have the line canned out right. I was only speaking from experience so excuse me:cool: kay

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I would have extended it to BMCC, and left its Downtown Brooklyn terminal (same exact terminal as the B65 btw) alone....

 

 

 

*see reply to Shortline, above*

 

I really do think that route could've obtained more riders if it directly served BMCC... it could've ate up w/e BMCC students that were sick of taking the (2) or the (3) downtown for the B25/26/38/52's of the world, as well as (continuing to) serve the more elderly folks that work around City Hall (my grandmother is one of them, but she's not a bus person... lol) that are not as able to freely take the train (which was the main basis behind the B51's existence anyway).....

 

I'd love to see him, or anyone else refute that.

 

 

 

 

Must have been for a specific reason... b/c Asians were no where near the predominant group of riders on that route, on either end of the route...

 

Maybe that was their way of tryna save the route? If it was, props to them !

 

ur right it was students going to high school from chinatown

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Post # 5697087080 for his which doesn't make any kind of sense and no truth behind his post. Now I see another thread being closed b/c of foolishness and garbage of a post....SMDH. Only a few HS school students rode the B51 into Manhattan regardless of what race they are!

 

calm down buddy if was years ago this happened not so serious. Some of those folk were shitty folk but over the years it apparently changed. CHILL OUT:cool:

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When I was at City Hall, there was folks waiting for B51 after week or month after service cut.

 

That's what I'm sayin, the B51 definitely had it's riders....

 

I don't buy that 900 somethin total riders during the weekday (that the MTA stated in one of those PDF's) utilized the route....

 

180 riders a day on that route....

as FG would say...

 

"nope."

 

 

FINE you win If ridership was growing then the rte should come back but this WAS YEARS AGO IN 2008 Not today I was a student. So I only saw it at rush hour but it should at least interline with other downtown BK rtes. That Is what I would rather have than have the line canned out right. I was only speaking from experience so excuse me:cool: kay

 

Changes nothing... You were still off-base with those remarks.

 

I speak from "experience" too... enough to have called you on that blatant lie.....

 

....and quite frankly, I don't care much about interlining in itself... You seem to be overly stuck on it.... All I care about is providing service where & when it is clearly justified to benefit as many riders as possible, as timely as possible... Interlining is a way of maximizing a particular resource (a bus, in this case) when you have very little, or not as many available...

 

Problem w/ the MTA is, they're doin it to save a quick buck.... They have the buses.

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Agreed. Not to mention it could be extended to BMCC/Battery Park City as well and say run between 5th Ave/9th Street (old (B77) terminal) and BMCC via City Hall/Park Row,

 

The (B57)should have only been extended if any to LIU College Medical Center on Columbia St/Atlantic the (B63) terminal.

 

That would only increase the B51's ridership!!!!! As that makes the rte unique thus eliminating the duplication that made it easy to kill. But if it took on those destinations then it wont duplicate. But there is no way students will take a bus over the 2/3 train maybe the elderly but NOT students. Most do their best to avoid the bus

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That would only increase the B51's ridership!!!!! As that makes the rte unique thus eliminating the duplication that made it easy to kill. But if it took on those destinations then it wont duplicate. But there is no way students will take a bus over the 2/3 train maybe the elderly but NOT students. Most do their best to avoid the bus

 

 

If the B51 actually went to BMCC, then you'd have a case....

 

Students are more than willing to take buses over trains, not sure what you're basing that off of.... Consider the B25/26 over the (A)(C) along Fulton St in Brooklyn... that's just one of many examples.... it's more the (working) adult general riding public that aren't all too fond of buses ....

 

- The MTA's attitude as of late is to cram as many people on subways as possible, while taking as many people off buses as possible, to run less buses...

 

- My attitude is to take enough people off subways whenever possible, to limit overcrowding (someone can pull up a stat showing how much at, or over capacity each/certain subway line(s) are)... in juxtaposition with putting more people on buses, making the bus a less hated mode of travel in this city.... This way, you can hope to achieve somewhat of a balance...

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If the B51 actually went to BMCC, then you'd have a case....

Students are more than willing to take buses over trains, not sure what you're basing that off of.... Consider the B25/26 over the (A)(C) along Fulton St in Brooklyn... that's just one of many examples.... it's more the (working) adult general riding public that aren't all too fond of buses ....

 

- The MTA's attitude as of late is to cram as many people on subways as possible, while taking as many people off buses as possible, to run less buses...

 

- My attitude is to take enough people off subways whenever possible, to limit overcrowding (someone can pull up a stat showing how much at, or over capacity each/certain subway line(s) are)... in juxtaposition with putting more people on buses, making the bus a less hated mode of travel in this city.... This way, you can hope to achieve somewhat of a balance...

 

What mta maryland did to their 58 line NYC mta should have done to B51 which is extend it to make the rte different from the other modes it duplicates making the rte unique

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If you don't mind, can you use punctuation and capitalize your letters when needed? It would actually make reading your posts a lot easier for me and probably few others. Thanks.

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As promised in This Post:

My bit at restoring *some* service AT Union Square....

 

The revival & extension of the old M6 route....

It would run from South Ferry to W. 72nd st (1)(2)(3)

 

[GMAPS]<iframe width="100" height="100" frameborder="0" scrolling="yes" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=204011070939843183781.0004a50e167dabda09e77&ll=40.73261,-73.983596&spn=0.043081,0.050661&output=embed"></iframe>[/GMAPS]

 

- Lines In Red: [Northbound M6 service via 6th av], [southbound M6 service via 5th av & via Broadway]

- Lines In Green: Retained portions (shown in unique snippets) of the current M5 route

 

 

Thanks to the pedestrian plaza's, the M6 can't be restored the way it was....

 

Way I'd have it though, the northbound M6 routing would be exactly the same as the current M5 from South Ferry to 72nd.... Whereas the southbound portion of the M6, I would have it divert at 23rd st; for the purpose of restoring local service along that part of Broadway where service was lost, as well as supplying direct service BACK to Union square...

 

1) The M6 would only run during off-peak hours (weekdays), and pretty much all day during the weekend....

2) During the times M6's are running on weekdays, most M5's would end at Houston st... and would run at a slightly lesser rate....

3) During weekends, ALL M5 service ends at Houston st...

4) The M6 wouldn't have it's own separate schedule, per se; it'll be fused into the M5's schedule... as it's meant to supplement the current M5 service, south of 72nd, somewhat increasing reliability along 5th/6th av's....

 

Thoughts ?

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Not a terrible idea bro (B35). However this would confuse the tons of riders i.e mainly tourists and occasional NYC Bus riders on when does the M5 or M6 runs to either South Ferry or Houston.

 

I am not against the return of the (M6)but it should either returns as a full 7 day a week route(running i.e 6am-Midnight Monday-Saturday and 8am-11pm Sundays) or is retired for good.

 

Personally I would make the M6 a "Local" version of the (M5) similar to the (Q44)/(Q20) or (M101) (M102) (M103) lines between 72nd/Bway and South Ferry. M5 makes 'limited stops" between

72nd/Bway and Chambers w/ some short trips (M5) start/end at Houston and 6th Ave.

Finally a Bus only lane similar to 1st and 2nd Ave on the (M15) SBS would needed for 7th Ave between 59th and 23rd. (also for Bway between 8th St and Canal) Uptown is also needed for 6th Ave between Canal St and 57th St.

 

As promised in This Post:

My bit at restoring *some* service AT Union Square....

 

The revival & extension of the old M6 route....

It would run from South Ferry to W. 72nd st (1)(2)(3)

 

[GMAPS]<iframe width="100" height="100" frameborder="0" scrolling="yes" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=204011070939843183781.0004a50e167dabda09e77&ll=40.73261,-73.983596&spn=0.043081,0.050661&output=embed"></iframe>[/GMAPS]

 

- Lines In Red: [Northbound M6 service via 6th av], [southbound M6 service via 5th av & via Broadway]

- Lines In Green: Retained portions (shown in unique snippets) of the current M5 route

 

 

Thanks to the pedestrian plaza's, the M6 can't be restored the way it was....

 

Way I'd have it though, the northbound M6 routing would be exactly the same as the current M5 from South Ferry to 72nd.... Whereas the southbound portion of the M6, I would have it divert at 23rd st; for the purpose of restoring local service along that part of Broadway where service was lost, as well as supplying direct service BACK to Union square...

 

1) The M6 would only run during off-peak hours (weekdays), and pretty much all day during the weekend....

2) During the times M6's are running on weekdays, most M5's would end at Houston st... and would run at a slightly lesser rate....

3) During weekends, ALL M5 service ends at Houston st...

4) The M6 wouldn't have it's own separate schedule, per se; it'll be fused into the M5's schedule... as it's meant to supplement the current M5 service, south of 72nd, somewhat increasing reliability along 5th/6th av's....

 

Thoughts ?

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Not a terrible idea bro (B35). However this would confuse the tons of riders i.e mainly tourists and occasional NYC Bus riders on when does the M5 or M6 runs to either South Ferry or Houston.

 

I am not against the return of the (M6)but it should either returns as a full 7 day a week route(running i.e 6am-Midnight Monday-Saturday and 8am-11pm Sundays) or is retired for good.

 

Personally I would make the M6 a "Local" version of the (M5) similar to the (Q44)/(Q20) or (M101) (M102) (M103) lines between 72nd/Bway and South Ferry. M5 makes 'limited stops" between 72nd/Bway and Chambers w/ some short trips (M5) start/end at Houston and 6th Ave.

 

Well, you can't have M6's running all day weekdays, without drastically compromising M5 service.... Sayin it another way, you can't have M5 running at its current headways, as well as running M6's at its old headways.... that is excessive, and not what I'm aiming for.....

 

Far as confusion, well the M6 would never terminate at Houston (old M6's never even did that).... M5's having two separate SB terminals would be no different than any other route that have 2 different terminals on one end (you even bring up short turns... lol).... M6's would never run during the rush.....

 

As far as having the M5/M6 run like the Q20/Q44, that's another way of doing it... My thing is, when M6's are running, I want to have (at the very least):

- NB M5's run LTD only north of 14th (where it pairs up w/ the M7)

- SB M5's run LTD only between [Columbus Circle] & [union sq. (where it pairs up w/ the other 5th av routes)].....

 

I have a huge gripe w/ the M5's that makes all local stops from South Ferry to GWB, even though it has the "Limited" notation....

 

I don't want to cut M5 service in half, just to bring back the M6 full time weekdays; that would screw more riders north of 72nd... The general idea is to not have those current M5 riders emanating south of 72nd, seeking service where the M6 would run between, havin to wait for M5's coming from GWB.... The M5 HAS gotten less reliable since the merger.....

 

I also don't want to make the M6 run during peak hrs, for the simple fact that you have all the express buses there (and a higher concentration of local buses) panning down 5th av - all in conjunction with what I mentioned in the 3rd paragraph....

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On the fence B35 and have to get back to you on these M5/M6 idea.

FYI. I think on Sundays(correct me guys if I am wrong) the M5 run local, the whole way between GW Bridge and South Ferry.:P

Talk about a mega long route.

 

You can't have M6's running all day weekdays, without drastically compromising M5 service.... nor can you have M5 running at its current headways, as well as the old current headways of the M6, that is excessive, and not what I was aiming for.....

 

Far as confusion, well the M6 would never terminate at Houston (old M6's never even did that).... M5's having two separate SB terminals would be no different than any other route that have multiple terminals on one end.... M6's would never run during the rush.....

 

As far as having the M5/M6 run like the Q20/Q44, that's another way of doing it... My thing is, I want to have:

- NB M5's run LTD only north of 14th (where it pairs up w/ the M7)

- SB M5's run LTD only between [59th/5th] & [union sq (where it pairs up w/ the other 5th av routes)].....

 

I have a huge gripe w/ the M5's that makes all local stops from South Ferry to GWB, even though it has the "Limited" notation....

 

I don't want to cut M5 service in half, just to bring back the M6 full time weekdays; that would screw more riders north of 72nd... The general idea is to not have those current M5 riders emanating south of 72nd, seeking service where the M6 would run between, havin to wait for M5's coming from GWB....

 

I also don't want to make the M6 run during peak hrs, for the simple fact that you have all the express buses (and a higher concentration of local buses) panning down 5th av - in conjunction with what I mentioned in the 3rd paragraph....

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What mta maryland did to their 58 line NYC mta should have done to B51 which is extend it to make the rte different from the other modes it duplicates making the rte unique

 

Two different agencies, two completely different transit planning methods.....

 

As promised in This Post:

My bit at restoring *some* service AT Union Square....

 

The revival & extension of the old M6 route....

It would run from South Ferry to W. 72nd st (1)(2)(3)

 

[GMAPS]<iframe width="100" height="100" frameborder="0" scrolling="yes" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=204011070939843183781.0004a50e167dabda09e77&ll=40.73261,-73.983596&spn=0.043081,0.050661&output=embed"></iframe>[/GMAPS]

 

- Lines In Red: [Northbound M6 service via 6th av], [southbound M6 service via 5th av & via Broadway]

- Lines In Green: Retained portions (shown in unique snippets) of the current M5 route

 

 

Thanks to the pedestrian plaza's, the M6 can't be restored the way it was....

 

Way I'd have it though, the northbound M6 routing would be exactly the same as the current M5 from South Ferry to 72nd.... Whereas the southbound portion of the M6, I would have it divert at 23rd st; for the purpose of restoring local service along that part of Broadway where service was lost, as well as supplying direct service BACK to Union square...

 

1) The M6 would only run during off-peak hours (weekdays), and pretty much all day during the weekend....

2) During the times M6's are running on weekdays, most M5's would end at Houston st... and would run at a slightly lesser rate....

3) During weekends, ALL M5 service ends at Houston st...

4) The M6 wouldn't have it's own separate schedule, per se; it'll be fused into the M5's schedule... as it's meant to supplement the current M5 service, south of 72nd, somewhat increasing reliability along 5th/6th av's....

 

Thoughts ?

 

I actually like it, but imo, 72nd & Riverside Drive (or West End) would make a better terminal. The only reason I say this is because of the congestion already at 72nd & Broadway

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On the fence B35 and have to get back to you on these M5/M6 idea.

 

FYI. I think on Sundays(correct me guys if I am wrong) the M5 run local, the whole way between GW Bridge and South Ferry.:P

Talk about a mega long route.

yeh, sure...

 

anyway, yeh, some M5's do make all local stops... which is exactly why I would truncate all weekend M5's to Houston.... and have M6's runnin in the process....

 

There are also M5's that end at 135th comin from S. Ferry... as well as those that run b/w 135th & GWB... not that many of (either of) them, though...

 

 

I actually like it, but imo, 72nd & Riverside Drive (or West End) would make a better terminal. The only reason I say this is because of the congestion already at 72nd & Broadway

Riverside drive, there's no where to turn around really over there... either you make that right onto riverside dr, or you dive straight onto the west side hwy... since that's also an exit on the west side hwy, that eliminates illegally u-turning on 72nd past riverside... lol....

 

The thought process I had, was to have that stop on [W 72nd, off broadway] serve as a first pickup/last dropoff stop w/ no layover whatsoever... on the return SB trip, a relief point can be made over there where the M20 ends at...

 

Ending buses at West end does make a little more sense though, you're right.

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