Why Bus Ridership is Declining

[Nexis4Jersey]

It has nothing to do with being afraid. Where exactly do you put a light rail when there is tons of congestion as it is???????????? :confused:

 

So Buses are better then LRT.....it seems your running away from the issue....have you looked up those cities they have congestion worse then NYC. Yet LRT works just fine....it depends on how you build it. Extending the Subways is not the answer for certain parts of NYC. LRT is cheaper and can hold the same amount as Subway cars depending on the type of train. Several Japanese Cities also use LRT there 3x more dense then NYC. If it can work in Japan it can work in NYC....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So Buses are better then LRT.....it seems your running away from the issue....have you looked up those cities they have congestion worse then NYC. Yet LRT works just fine....it depends on how you build it. Extending the Subways is not the answer for certain parts of NYC. LRT is cheaper and can hold the same amount as Subway cars depending on the type of train. Several Japanese Cities also use LRT there 3x more dense then NYC. If it can work in Japan it can work in NYC....

 

I'm not running from anything. You're proposing an alternative and I'm asking you how would you go about implementing it. Simple as that. If you're going to propose something as you are, you should at least be able to say how you would implement it and where the funds would come from. If you can't do that then your idea is nothing more than the equivalent of these rail dudes who propose putting light rails all over the place by just looking at a map and sticking several of them in there, having no background about the areas that they're proposing them for.

[aemoreira81]

no

 

 

 

It makes me sick to say this, but most MTA Bus express routes do not need offpeak or weekend service. The BM2, BxM7, BxM9, and possibly the BxM11 are the only exceptions. I even see some empty QM6's on weekends. On weekdays, I would have the QM5 operate via the LIE instead of turning to Union Turnpike via 188 Street. On weekends, it would operate via Union Turnpike and replace the QM6.

 

I actually would say that the BM2 should not run outside the rush; there are many less-than-half-seated BM2s during the midday, and the B103 Limited meets NYCT guidelines for another increase in weekday service. The BM2 during the rush should be a downtown service only, possibly with the BM5 extended to 80th and M during rush hours. Midtown customers have ADA accessibility at Grand Central.

 

The only BMs that I believe should be run outside the rush hour are the BM1 and BM3.

 

As for the BxM11---I would not run it outside the rush hour. The BxM4 is a possibility if extended to Empire City. The BxM1 would run with reduced headways, because it runs to the east side of Manhattan not easily reached by subway from that area of the Bronx.

 

Basic point: NYCT loading guidelines need to be applied to MTA Bus express routes; if they were, there would be a lot of service cuts on that merit alone.

[B35 via Church]

It has nothing to do with being afraid. Where exactly do you put a light rail when there is tons of congestion as it is???????????? :confused: Also, where does the money come from to pay a massive project like this?

None of these LRT supporters EVER answers this question.

 

 

So Buses are better then LRT.....it seems your running away from the issue....have you looked up those cities they have congestion worse then NYC. Yet LRT works just fine....it depends on how you build it. Extending the Subways is not the answer for certain parts of NYC. LRT is cheaper and can hold the same amount as Subway cars depending on the type of train. Several Japanese Cities also use LRT there 3x more dense then NYC. If it can work in Japan it can work in NYC....

 

Buses being "better" than LRT isn't anyone's argument on here....

 

How the hell could any of us that are defining reasons as to why declining ridership on NYC's buses in this thread, running away from the issue?

 

Afraid of change? Dude, LRT has f*** all to do anything regarding the main issue here.... It's NOT a solution... I get the general attitude here... to hell with our buses, lets prop up a LRT system b/c it's the "future" of public transportation... Sorry dude, I aint with that - How about I'm not near as quick to hold em & fold em on our bus system... Which I'm sure you could give a damn about, just by your first & latest reply in this thread.....

 

...and don't tell me LRT can exist in NYC w/ the extensive bus system we have throughout the boroughs; when bus service itself is being cut left & right....

 

...and I love how you, Shortline, and other supporters bring up how such systems in other cities work out for the better... as a means of implying that it would end up being as similar a success for NYC....

[B35 via Church]

I'm not running from anything. You're proposing an alternative and I'm asking you how would you go about implementing it. Simple as that. If you're going to propose something as you are, you should at least be able to say how you would implement it and where the funds would come from.

 

If you can't do that then your idea is nothing more than the equivalent of these rail dudes who propose putting light rails all over the place by just looking at a map and sticking several of them in there, having no background about the areas that they're proposing them for.

 

My problem with their suggestions is that, it's more addressing an alternative for our subways than it is for our buses.... I mean is it just me, I dunno....

 

That 2nd segment/paragraph is EXACTLY what the hell I think is goin on here.

Bringing up LRT right now is like me plannin to have a barbeque for the NYCTF fam, disclose I have a charcoal grill, and these two talkin about bringin propane tanks....

[BJC]

Boston

Calgary

Toronto

Edmonton

San Fransisco

 

All have LRT and all have a dense core or dense corridors like NYC. Saying LRT can't work in NYC is foolish , LRT can handle up 300,000. Its cheaper and can hold 3x a bus in some cases. I don't think it will be worse then buses , it will be better then buses , but below Subways. It will be more Reliable then buses since its on a track and hopefully traffic separated. It could be just me , but it seems New Yorkers are afraid of changing things and that will greatly affect your city in the future.

 

You know,you're right let them build a LRT on Flatbush Av and tell me how that going to work out.besides,those cars will be getting into accident with the train almost everyday.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My problem with their suggestions is that, it's more addressing an alternative for our subways than it is for our buses.... I mean is it just me, I dunno....

 

That 2nd segment/paragraph is EXACTLY what the hell I think is goin on here.

Bringing up LRT right now is like me plannin to have a barbeque for the NYCTF fam, disclose I have a charcoal grill, and these two talkin about bringin propane tanks....

 

LOL@ propane tanks... I mean really. I too don't understand how does LRT deal with the issue of declining ridership on buses? Also, LRT is just as unflexible as the subway is. It is more difficult to detour than it is for buses and I'm still trying to figure out where these things would be put at. They talk as if we have huge streets here where we can plop these things down at will. I think more than anything what irks me is the lack of practicality of some of these ideas. I wouldn't necessarily rule out LRT in some areas, but I sure as hell can't see it replacing buses here throughout NYC.

[qjtransitmaster]

LOL@ propane tanks... I mean really. I too don't understand how does LRT deal with the issue of declining ridership on buses? Also, LRT is just as unflexible as the subway is. It is more difficult to detour than it is for buses and I'm still trying to figure out where these things would be put at. They talk as if we have huge streets here where we can plop these things down at will. I think more than anything what irks me is the lack of practicality of some of these ideas. I wouldn't necessarily rule out LRT in some areas, but I sure as hell can't see it replacing buses here throughout NYC.

 

hense why grade separated BRT busways are the answer like install guideways and have entrances and exits where buses can enter and be immune to traffic then exit the guideway for flexibility. Honestly a PRT/BRT hybrid type system might be able to replace many buses or allow some lines that cant extend due to traffic to be able to extend by using the guideways separated from traffic

[qjtransitmaster]

Well more stops are planned for both systems , these stations won't be used except during peak hrs or limited off peak service. I don't see how adding stations would really slow the train down. LRT won't work on the I-278 , there is no place to put it. SI needs LRT to take pressure off the poorly designed roads and connect it with Jersey. I don't ppl care about a slow train , seeing how 60,000+ use the Morristown line. I Doubt many of your friends hate the train , considering theres only one line for now....the Bus won't be faster if Congestion gets any worse. Once the MOM network is completed Buses in Central Jersey will lose most of the Ridership.

 

NOT EVEN CLOSE The MOM is like a crosstown train its ridership base will be made of mostly new transit users rather than former bus users do u really think ppl will give up a highway bus for a train thats slower get ur brain checked ur gonna get burned buddy now try to think with logic and not fanning nonsense:cool: The local buses that feed the MOM will gain ridership rather than lose it. Most ppl have no patience for the stops the trains make the rte 9 BRT buses will always be faster than the rail the rail and bus serve 2 completely different markets. Plus if the 139 gets extended south of lakewood then it will gain more riders rather than less. Most of ur comments are mode bias therefore HAVE NO LOGIC IN THEM!!!:cool: Now ur arguing with transit peeps who know the system ur gonna lose this one buddy badly. NJT knows they would never touch their 139 why do you think the jamesburg and red bank segments will get priority cause those trains will never be faster than 139 express. The trains serve newark and union county commuters while the buses serve NYC commuters ppl dont have the patience for the stops the north jersey coast line makes. Even an express train is slower than the bus thats just sad!!!! Now the morristown line actually has no real bus competition at all so of course its the fastest option. The C77 sucks!!! so there it wins in central never unless the trains will run every 10 mins or 30 mins. The 139 is every 10 to 30 mins the train ehh hour to 90 mins seriously dude do the math. Express bus every 10 mins vs train every hour that is LOCAL!!!:cool: However 135 will have NYC while MOM will have hoboken/newark peeps

[qjtransitmaster]

:cool:

You know,you're right let them build a LRT on Flatbush Av and tell me how that going to work out.besides,those cars will be getting into accident with the train almost everyday.

 

BRT traffic separated maybe but LRT no way

[Nexis4Jersey]

NOT EVEN CLOSE The MOM is like a crosstown train its ridership base will be made of mostly new transit users rather than former bus users do u really think ppl will give up a highway bus for a train thats slower get ur brain checked ur gonna get burned buddy now try to think with logic and not fanning nonsense:cool: The local buses that feed the MOM will gain ridership rather than lose it. Most ppl have no patience for the stops the trains make the rte 9 BRT buses will always be faster than the rail the rail and bus serve 2 completely different markets. Plus if the 139 gets extended south of lakewood then it will gain more riders rather than less. Most of ur comments are mode bias therefore HAVE NO LOGIC IN THEM!!!:cool: Now ur arguing with transit peeps who know the system ur gonna lose this one buddy badly. NJT knows they would never touch their 139 why do you think the jamesburg and red bank segments will get priority cause those trains will never be faster than 139 express. The trains serve newark and union county commuters while the buses serve NYC commuters ppl dont have the patience for the stops the north jersey coast line makes. Even an express train is slower than the bus thats just sad!!!! Now the morristown line actually has no real bus competition at all so of course its the fastest option. The C77 sucks!!! so there it wins in central never unless the trains will run every 10 mins or 30 mins. The 139 is every 10 to 30 mins the train ehh hour to 90 mins seriously dude do the math. Express bus every 10 mins vs train every hour that is LOCAL!!!:cool: However 135 will have NYC while MOM will have hoboken/newark peeps

 

The Roads of Central Jersey are at Capacity....they've widen them to the point where they can't anymore. The County estimates 120,000 ppl will use the MOM network most will be going to Midtown / Urban Jersey. The MOM network won't have alot of crossings so it will be faster. You don't seem to know anything about this project and keep pushing buses..... Buses can't solve everything....Even if the train is slower more ppl will use them. After all theres a stigma against buses....

[BrooklynBus]

 

How the hell could any of us that are defining reasons as to why declining ridership on NYC's buses in this thread, running away from the issue?

 

 

 

 

You are correct. Everyone is getting away from the issue. Light Rail has its place as does Select Bus Service. Both, however are not solutions. There are some but very few places light rail could work, and yes, money is a big problem. Same thing is true with SBS. Just not suitable for the vast majority of bus routes.

 

That's why I get so angry when reading those MTA public service ads. One reads: What are we doing to speed up buses? We're putting in SBS. They state it as if they found the solution when they are talking about 10 out of 300 routes or more. I didn't count them. That's like saying we are solving world hunger. We've opened up three soup kitchens.

 

There are a number of answers to the question and I think the article touched on many of them.

[qjtransitmaster]

The Roads of Central Jersey are at Capacity....they've widen them to the point where they can't anymore. The County estimates 120,000 ppl will use the MOM network most will be going to Midtown / Urban Jersey. The MOM network won't have alot of crossings so it will be faster. You don't seem to know anything about this project and keep pushing buses..... Buses can't solve everything....Even if the train is slower more ppl will use them. After all theres a stigma against buses....

 

Ur right about to urban NJ BUSES DONT GO TO URBAN NJ FROM RTE 9 OUTSIDE RUSH HR!!!!! I know buses cant solve everything but neither can trains that is why the MOM is being created in the first place. Some travel formations cant be done effective by bus. you do not understand I dont keep pushing buses at all they are already above capacity and need the rail. However more ppl will use the RAIL cause of CAPACITY thats it. The rail has more than a bus can hold so naturally at rush it will always carry more. All it will do will take more cars off the road so the buses will move faster. Everyone wins. You dont understand that unlike u I am not mode bias. I DO NOT FAVOR BUSES OVER TRAINS OR VICE VERSA!!!! I know buses cant solve everything. If there was a stigma against buses then the rte 9 139/130/132/136 and 64/63 and 67 WONT EXIST WITH THEIR RIDERSHIP. Hello try to talk with reality rather than mode train vs Bus nonsense. I refuse to bother debating or even entertaining the bus vs train BULL that you tend to be so attatched too. Plus there is NO stigma against the academy/suburban buses on exit 8a that are NON STOP TO NYC. The trains will serve the newark and urban NJ folks that the buses CAN'T. This I understand the only reason why more ppl use train is cause train has more capacity. With the exception of the rte 9 buses that serve a completely different market than the rail and will be immume to MOM or even benefit. The majority of buses outside rte 9 that MOM will serve run horridly infrequent (outside rush hr) so the rail will be the only option anyway. The rte 9 139 is in a leauge by itself and none of the MOM lines directly parralell rte 9 rte 79 doesnt count either. As bus service there sucks anyway. You obviously don't understand the complete network. I WIN:cool: These are words only a retard can say :(Even if the train is slower more ppl will use them. After all theres a stigma against buses....) think before you post I already see that there is no logic in this at all as you are a fan therefore dont speak out of an understanding of complete networks. Just another cheerleader U fail sort of. This however makes more sense : (Buses can't solve everything...) this is the only part we both agree on!!! I know more about the MOM than I am letting on that is why I made the comments I made I know its alignments and what it can and can't do. Drop the fan talk and speak from the view from actual normal ppl:cool:

[GreatOne2k]

I actually would say that the BM2 should not run outside the rush; there are many less-than-half-seated BM2s during the midday, and the B103 Limited meets NYCT guidelines for another increase in weekday service. The BM2 during the rush should be a downtown service only, possibly with the BM5 extended to 80th and M during rush hours. Midtown customers have ADA accessibility at Grand Central.

 

The only BMs that I believe should be run outside the rush hour are the BM1 and BM3.

 

As for the BxM11---I would not run it outside the rush hour. The BxM4 is a possibility if extended to Empire City. The BxM1 would run with reduced headways, because it runs to the east side of Manhattan not easily reached by subway from that area of the Bronx.

 

Basic point: NYCT loading guidelines need to be applied to MTA Bus express routes; if they were, there would be a lot of service cuts on that merit alone.

 

If you apply NYCT standards to MTA Bus, Q50 service would have to be doubled during the late evening from 60 to 30 minutes (NYCT minimum headway standard). If the Bx24 can run 30 minutes, the Q50 might as well.

[Trainmaster5]

I have read and re-read this thread a few times and while the responses are all over the territory I think that the main problem stems from the (MTA)s overall concept of providing bus service in the city. Obviously traffic plays a big part in the whole picture but I think the main problem with the agency's thinking is in it's very definition and implementation. I can only speak for Brooklyn service because that's what I am most familiar with but I think it applies city-wide to some degree. Brooklyn Bus and I talked about ripping up the BK service pattern and starting over from scratch. Most present day routes in Brooklyn are relics of old trolley lines and different companies and sometimes have no real relationship to present commuting patterns. I'm sure Manhattan-Bronx, Queens, and Staten Island all have similar histories. In my opinion we must first revise lines logically along population needs. SE Brooklyn, S Queens, S.I. have changed greatly over the last 50 years but bus routing hasn't changed that much. Identify the service corridors that need changes and, with the DOT, try to speed up service on those lines first. Second, and very important, structure lines which are subway feeder lines differently than those that exist for somewhat more complex needs. For example the B41, B44, B6 are lines that are feeders in part but serve a different purpose than the B42,B49 or B25 do. Likewise the B26,B38 or B52 are not the same service as the B83. I'm sure the other boroughs have the same patterns as Brooklyn does. Before going out and building BRT or light rail improve the bus service you have today. When, not if, the economy improves you might be able to reverse the recent decline in ridership and gain some new riders IF you provide the service people need today. Carry on.

[qjtransitmaster]

I have read and re-read this thread a few times and while the responses are all over the territory I think that the main problem stems from the (MTA)s overall concept of providing bus service in the city. Obviously traffic plays a big part in the whole picture but I think the main problem with the agency's thinking is in it's very definition and implementation. I can only speak for Brooklyn service because that's what I am most familiar with but I think it applies city-wide to some degree. Brooklyn Bus and I talked about ripping up the BK service pattern and starting over from scratch. Most present day routes in Brooklyn are relics of old trolley lines and different companies and sometimes have no real relationship to present commuting patterns. I'm sure Manhattan-Bronx, Queens, and Staten Island all have similar histories. In my opinion we must first revise lines logically along population needs. SE Brooklyn, S Queens, S.I. have changed greatly over the last 50 years but bus routing hasn't changed that much. Identify the service corridors that need changes and, with the DOT, try to speed up service on those lines first. Second, and very important, structure lines which are subway feeder lines differently than those that exist for somewhat more complex needs. For example the B41, B44, B6 are lines that are feeders in part but serve a different purpose than the B42,B49 or B25 do. Likewise the B26,B38 or B52 are not the same service as the B83. I'm sure the other boroughs have the same patterns as Brooklyn does. Before going out and building BRT or light rail improve the bus service you have today. When, not if, the economy improves you might be able to reverse the recent decline in ridership and gain some new riders IF you provide the service people need today. Carry on.

 

the one thing rail fans will never understand

[aemoreira81]

If you apply NYCT standards to MTA Bus, Q50 service would have to be doubled during the late evening from 60 to 30 minutes (NYCT minimum headway standard). If the Bx24 can run 30 minutes, the Q50 might as well.

 

On headway standards, as I see it, NYCT should be open to hourly standards or whatever it takes to maximize driver productivity (i.e., the B2 would run every 25 minutes off-peak, 21 minutes running time and 4 minutes of layover).

 

Before it was discontinued, the B71 ran every 40 minutes during the day.

 

The MTA also needs to do more interlining---such as interlining the Q67 with the Q100 and Q69 on weekends.

[BrooklynBus]

Before going out and building BRT or light rail improve the bus service you have today. When, not if, the economy improves you might be able to reverse the recent decline in ridership and gain some new riders IF you provide the service people need today. Carry on.

 

One reason why I am upset with the proposed B44 SBS is that the average benefit will be only 6 minutes (with a maximum benefit of 15 minutes if you ride from one end of the line to the other which no one will do) after all that effort. You can get better benefits by making changes on other routes with no cost or even save money. You can incorporate some of the features of SBS on many other routes without the full SBS treatment, like priority signals for buses, exclusive lanes for a few blocks in congested areas such as around the Junction. The key of course is enforcement which is rarely done.

 

Other examples, if you won't provide service through service along Ft Hamilton Parkway, you could at least move the bus to 60th Street to facilitate a transfer with the B9. (I'm sure there must be other changes like this you could make which could save some transferring passengers 15 minutes.) Having some B49s bypass Sheepshead Bay Station and use the pre-1978 route during non-rush=hours. Operate more deadheads in service. Some service now deadheads when in service buses are too full to pick up passengers. That is just stupid.

[qjtransitmaster]

One reason why I am upset with the proposed B44 SBS is that the average benefit will be only 6 minutes (with a maximum benefit of 15 minutes if you ride from one end of the line to the other which no one will do) after all that effort. You can get better benefits by making changes on other routes with no cost or even save money. You can incorporate some of the features of SBS on many other routes without the full SBS treatment, like priority signals for buses, exclusive lanes for a few blocks in congested areas such as around the Junction. The key of course is enforcement which is rarely done.

 

Other examples, if you won't provide service through service along Ft Hamilton Parkway, you could at least move the bus to 60th Street to facilitate a transfer with the B9. (I'm sure there must be other changes like this you could make which could save some transferring passengers 15 minutes.) Having some B49s bypass Sheepshead Bay Station and use the pre-1978 route during non-rush=hours. Operate more deadheads in service. Some service now deadheads when in service buses are too full to pick up passengers. That is just stupid.

 

On headway standards, as I see it, NYCT should be open to hourly standards or whatever it takes to maximize driver productivity (i.e., the B2 would run every 25 minutes off-peak, 21 minutes running time and 4 minutes of layover).

 

Before it was discontinued, the B71 ran every 40 minutes during the day.

 

The MTA also needs to do more interlining---such as interlining the Q67 with the Q100 and Q69 on weekends.

 

I suggested they do this with several rtes hence why I even came up with bx55 LGA and 13 jackson that was for extreme select run interlining. Besides deadheads on express can become reverse trips so at least they can get some use in return?? or reuse em on a separate line

[GreatOne2k]

On headway standards, as I see it, NYCT should be open to hourly standards or whatever it takes to maximize driver productivity (i.e., the B2 would run every 25 minutes off-peak, 21 minutes running time and 4 minutes of layover).

 

Before it was discontinued, the B71 ran every 40 minutes during the day.

 

The MTA also needs to do more interlining---such as interlining the Q67 with the Q100 and Q69 on weekends.

 

B71 ran no more than 35 minutes apart on weekdays, 30 minutes on weekends.

[B35 via Church]

Problem w/ the B71 was that it was infrequent, and it really didn't take as many riders where they needed to get to.... (In neighborhoods) on both ends of the route, it was surrounded by better transit options, so the route would have been an afterthought regardless if service were to be increased....

 

In plain english, the route was antiquated....

[Hawk Operator]

:tup:Wow, after reading all these posts I nominate each of you to be MTA Board members. The ideas, feasability, constructive critisism, etc is absolutely needed to address the future transportation needs of the five Boroughs.:tup:

 

As for my two cents worth:

 

As many noted, there should be a complete overhaul of the bus system, including routes and destinations. This should be done, not by politicians, but real folks, like the system users, city planning personnel, and operating employees. It would take a few meetings of community boards, etc but could be done. Then off to planning stage with NYC DOT. Streets regulations are going to change, along with traffic patterns, but hey getting all the shareholders/ parties involved will make for a smoother transition. And, yes Via Garibaldi 8 your beloved express buses can stay, but might be routed a new way. But if we LR or heavy rail SI to Brooklyn and Manhattan, kiss them good bye!:cool:

 

I think LR is doable & feasable on the boulevards and wider avenues of the outer boros. A "cross-town " trolley could be set up with in each boro to move around the boro's venues. In Manhattan, crosstown LR or trolly would be great and LR, not SBS, on Avenues along with subways could really raise the effectiveness. Also, look for stoppage of some service nightly, in off peak hours that is not needed. As for accidents with autos, laws and solid design and planning would limit these type of occurrences. As for NIMBYs, don't like it, move. The city has shown it has no problems with emminent domain issues, and should be looking to address the future transit needs in a very dramatic policy shift from the method used today.

 

As for funding, there are investors and stakeholders with a vested interest to see this work, so capital is obtainable.

 

Anyone know how we can get a on-line interactive map going to post new ideas and routes?

[checkmatechamp13]

:tup:Wow, after reading all these posts I nominate each of you to be MTA Board members. The ideas, feasability, constructive critisism, etc is absolutely needed to address the future transportation needs of the five Boroughs.:tup:

 

As for my two cents worth:

 

As many noted, there should be a complete overhaul of the bus system, including routes and destinations. This should be done, not by politicians, but real folks, like the system users, city planning personnel, and operating employees. It would take a few meetings of community boards, etc but could be done. Then off to planning stage with NYC DOT. Streets regulations are going to change, along with traffic patterns, but hey getting all the shareholders/ parties involved will make for a smoother transition. And, yes Via Garibaldi 8 your beloved express buses can stay, but might be routed a new way. But if we LR or heavy rail SI to Brooklyn and Manhattan, kiss them good bye!:cool:

 

I think LR is doable & feasable on the boulevards and wider avenues of the outer boros. A "cross-town " trolley could be set up with in each boro to move around the boro's venues. In Manhattan, crosstown LR or trolly would be great and LR, not SBS, on Avenues along with subways could really raise the effectiveness. Also, look for stoppage of some service nightly, in off peak hours that is not needed. As for accidents with autos, laws and solid design and planning would limit these type of occurrences. As for NIMBYs, don't like it, move. The city has shown it has no problems with emminent domain issues, and should be looking to address the future transit needs in a very dramatic policy shift from the method used today.

 

As for funding, there are investors and stakeholders with a vested interest to see this work, so capital is obtainable.

 

Anyone know how we can get a on-line interactive map going to post new ideas and routes?

 

Express buses don't have to be eliminated if a heavy rail connected us with Manhattan: They would just be reduced. While I'll admit that the only reason why my family uses them is because the bus->ferry->subway route is too time-consuming, there are people who woiuld rather take a nap on the express bus, or catch up on work without having to be worried about transferring halfway through the ride.

 

Even if it were just a SIR extension from St. George to Lower Manhattan, we'd probably take the S62->subway, rather than taking the express bus, as it would only save 10-15 minutes, rather than the 30-40 minutes it does today. If it were to the 59th Street station, we'd probably still use express buses occasionally, but definitely not as much as we do today.

 

And if there were a SIR extension to Manhattan and a restored North Shore Rail Line, we'd probably never set foot on an express bus again. At that point, it would be close to the same amount of time taking a bus to Port Richmond or Elm Park and then taking the subway, as opposed to taking an express bus.

 

Still, as is seen by routes like the BxM11, express buses can coexist with the subway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Express buses don't have to be eliminated if a heavy rail connected us with Manhattan: They would just be reduced. While I'll admit that the only reason why my family uses them is because the bus->ferry->subway route is too time-consuming, there are people who woiuld rather take a nap on the express bus, or catch up on work without having to be worried about transferring halfway through the ride.

 

Even if it were just a SIR extension from St. George to Lower Manhattan, we'd probably take the S62->subway (if it were to the 59th Street station, we'd probably still use express buses occasionally, but we wouldn't feel as dependant on them as we are now)

 

I personally think that express buses on Staten Island will still see heavy use even if we get a light rail for the simple fact that you mentioned. Express buses give you a one seat ride, thus meaning that you don't have to make a thousand transfers. With all of the transfers required, any time that you gain on the light rail is eaten away by the wait between connections. That's a big reason why folks feel that Staten Island is so inaccessible when in reality the commute depending on your location really isn't any worse than parts of Brooklyn, Queens, or the Bronx.

 

Not to mention that transferring between the bus ferry and subway is extremely exhausting, both mentally and physically. They would have to kill off every express bus line before I made a switch to light rail.

[checkmatechamp13]

I personally think that express buses on Staten Island will still see heavy use even if we get a light rail for the simple fact that you mentioned. Express buses give you a one seat ride, thus meaning that you don't have to make a thousand transfers. With all of the transfers required, any time that you gain on the light rail is eaten away by the wait between connections. That's a big reason why folks feel that Staten Island is so inaccessible when in reality the commute depending on your location really isn't any worse than parts of Brooklyn, Queens, or the Bronx.

 

Not to mention that transferring between the bus ferry and subway is extremely exhausting, both mentally and physically. They would have to kill off every express bus line before I made a switch to light rail.

 

If I were planning it, I would make the North Shore Line heavy rail, connect it to Manhattan, and have it continue along the Second Avenue Line (a boy can dream, can't he? ). That way, the only connection you have to wait for is the bus->subway.

 

As long as the only direct way between SI and Manhattan is to take the ferry, SI would probably still be dependant on the express bus. Even though the South Shore has the SIR, the majority of them still take the express bus.

 

Having a heavy rail connection would make express bus service less of a necessity and more of a convenience. The same way riders in Bergen Beach aren't dependant on the BM1 is the same way that riders in Staten Island would no longer be dependant on express buses (especially if the North Shore Rail Line were built, meaning that most people would be a relatively short bus ride from the rail line. Without the North Shore Rail Line, people in areas like New Springville would still have to spend a good 45 minutes to get to St. George before taking the train to Manhattan)