Stranded straphangers begin drive to bring back bus service to Queens

[Shortline Bus]

Stranded straphangers begin drive to bring back bus service to QueensBY Irving Dejohn

NY DAILY NEWS WRITER

 

Tuesday, June 14th 2011

 

" A group of eastern Queens community leaders are hoping a little creative rerouting can restore some bus service along a defunct MTA route.

 

The Queens Civic Congress is pitching a proposal to alter bus routes adjacent to the former Q79 line to revive at least some public transit options to the area.

 

"This story didn't end when the bus line ended. We're going to prepare something that makes sense and we're cautiously optimistic," said Bob Friedrich, president of Glen Oaks Village.

 

Since the Q79 bus line was axed last summer, attempted alternatives in the area have flopped. The Taxi and Limousine Commission launched a pilot program that used commuter vans along Little Neck Parkway but the operator quickly pulled out, citing low ridership.

 

At a city Department of Transportation meeting last month, City Councilman Jimmy Vacca (D-East Bronx) promised the frustrated civic group that he would review a proposal to alter other routes in the area to fill in service gaps. If the plan is feasible, Vacca said he'd press the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to implement it.

 

"I do think the MTA realizes that what they did in many cases ended up stranding many of the customers," said Vacca, chairman of the council's Transportation Committee.

 

Jim Trent, 65, founder and president of the Queens County Farm Museum, used to hop on the Q79 to get to the museum. But now it requires an arduous 2-mile walk or a pricy car service since he doesn't own a car.

 

Meanwhile, the museum is paying payroll taxes to the MTA to sustain service, he said.

 

"We lose the service and we're paying for the service - it's a double whammy," Trent said.

 

While getting the MTA to accept the proposal may be difficult, Vacca said there is a precedent of the MTA restoring some of its cuts. A portion of the Bx14 route was recently revived following a similar grass-roots proposal.

 

MTA officials said they would entertain a plan as long as it fits certain criteria.

 

"We are willing to look at any proposal to reallocate resources as long as it's at no net cost and does not exceed loading or service guidelines," said MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz.

 

But officials noted that before the agency cut the Q79, it had the second-lowest ridership in the city, with only 650 straphangers daily compared to the 12,000 person average on other routes."

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/queens/2011/06/14/2011-06-14_drive_to_bring_back_bus_service_civic_leaders_plan_a_reroute.html

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Those folks should be a bit more than pissed. The is charging the museum a payroll tax and yet they axe the bus but keep the taxes?? :mad:

 

Now that's highway robbery.

[qjtransitmaster]

Those folks should be a bit more than pissed. The is charging the museum a payroll tax and yet they axe the bus but keep the taxes?? :mad:

 

Now that's highway robbery.

 

err it had the 2nd lowest ridership in the city seriously either bad marketing or no one needed the line. However if marketed as a connector it would have attracted more peeps as it had timed connections with LIB N20/21 and connections with several east-west rtes. Plus if extended it could have been saved actually due to becoming useful. It can return only if reshaped!!! I would not let elmont waste time with nassau rtes cause the elmont area has many peeps going queensbound making the N2 and 1 in their current forms esentially useless to the mainstream public. Q79 can return but not in the same rte it took on in 2010.

[checkmatechamp13]

err it had the 2nd lowest ridership in the city seriously either bad marketing or no one needed the line. However if marketed as a connector it would have attracted more peeps as it had timed connections with LIB N20/21 and connections with several east-west rtes. Plus if extended it could have been saved actually due to becoming useful. It can return only if reshaped!!! I would not let elmont waste time with nassau rtes cause the elmont area has many peeps going queensbound making the N2 and 1 in their current forms esentially useless to the mainstream public. Q79 can return but not in the same rte it took on in 2010.

 

It had low ridership, but the cost per passenger (at least on weekdays) was lower than that of some routes that were saved for network coverage reasons (like the S54, S55, S56, and S57)

[LRG]

The Q79 was a waste. The frequencies it ran at, as well as its ridership, made it clear-cut that route did not stand a chance after July 2010.

[lilbluefoxie]

In that part of Queens, most people have cars and their houses have driveways and garages.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's all fine and good, but they're still collecting taxes which were supposed to be used for subsidizing the line. They cut the line, but they're still collecting those taxes. That's the issue I have with it.

[User]

Too bad the article doesn't go into the specifics of the plan that the people proposed, but I think they should suggest what the representative for Little Neck suggested, extending the Q30 to the Little Neck train station from the Horace Harding expressway where the Q30 begins. But then what about the rest of the Q79 route? What I liked about the Q79 is that it was the only bus that provided southbound service from Little Neck and Douglaston, with connections to many other bus routes including Long Island Bus, such as the N22 which connects to many other routes at Roosevelt Field and Hicksville LIRR. Cutting the Q79 was cutting the beginning of one of the chains of buses, and in my viewpoint, from someone who lived in Douglaston all their life, and depended on the Q79 for years to get to school, it was a mistake for the MTA to leave the neighborhood stranded when cuts could have been made in other places.

[Eric B]

There's a friend of ours who lives over there, and we go once in a while. We usuallty use the (Q12) from Flushing, but the 79 (transferring from a route from Jamaica) was an alternative.

 

It looks like the most obvious solution would be to simply extend both the (Q12) and the (Q30) to cover the route by following the current (QM3) and (QM5/8) to their terminals, which turn south down Little Neck Pkwy from their respective eastbound corridors. So that would serve the few riders along the parkway (covering the whole route) without having to run a separate service for too few riders.

[qjtransitmaster]

The Q79 was a waste. The frequencies it ran at, as well as its ridership, made it clear-cut that route did not stand a chance after July 2010.

In the form it took on of course it was a waste plus bad marketing also was to blame cause although useless it was beyond convenient for transfering purposes very convenient.

 

There's a friend of ours who lives over there, and we go once in a while. We usuallty use the (Q12) from Flushing, but the 79 (transferring from a route from Jamaica) was an alternative.

 

It looks like the most obvious solution would be to simply extend both the (Q12) and the (Q30) to cover the route by following the current (QM3) and (QM5/8) to their terminals, which turn south down Little Neck Pkwy from their respective eastbound corridors. So that would serve the few riders along the parkway (covering the whole route) without having to run a separate service for too few riders.

Wow Its nice to know that it doesnt take a genius to figure this out LOL. I would have restored it but then extended it to green acres via N2 routing and bypassing floral park to silence the NIMBY ********. The line if extended can be sort of bypass rte you never know it served ppl in areas with cars however where do these ppl drive too often especially in the bronx once you figure that out the revived Q79 in that formation can become a very useful route and attract new riders it was unable to attract in its previous form.

[Forest Glen]

Can't they simply send a few more Q46's to the farm museum, rather than to bring back a useless route?

[Cait Sith]

The Q79 was a waste. The frequencies it ran at, as well as its ridership, made it clear-cut that route did not stand a chance after July 2010.

 

In the form it took on of course it was a waste plus bad marketing also was to blame cause although useless it was beyond convenient for transfering purposes very convenient.

 

 

Not quite, the M106 wasnt that far off in low ridership either and its 30 minutes headways and it STILL lived through the cuts even though the M116 was just a few blocks away!

 

The Q79 had a specific role in that part of Queens especially since its so far up and that area is hard to get around. Routes like the M106 should've been cut because there are a load of other routes in its area within a short walk. The Q79 doesnt see routes for a good distance in both directions.

 

Can't they simply send a few more Q46's to the farm museum, rather than to bring back a useless route?

 

The Q46 is already at capacity when it comes to meeting with service, splitting the route even more would likely break its frequency.

 

Wow Its nice to know that it doesnt take a genius to figure this out LOL. I would have restored it but then extended it to green acres via N2 routing and bypassing floral park to silence the NIMBY ********. The line if extended can be sort of bypass rte you never know it served ppl in areas with cars however where do these ppl drive too often especially in the bronx once you figure that out the revived Q79 in that formation can become a very useful route and attract new riders it was unable to attract in its previous form.

 

For what purpose....Q79 riders didnt want or need service to Green Acres...plus you are trying to appease two types of folks here, that would NOT work out for the regular Q79 folk....

[Shortline Bus]

Feel bad for you Brett. Hate to bring this up, but if this was Manhattan Upper East Side for instance w/ strong political backing, I am sure the Q79 would been saved in some form. The could kept it and ran it weekdays only.

 

At this point Brett only hope now is that a recent proposal(forgot who made it ) is something like extending every other (Q30) weekdays to Little Neck LIRR station for partial service back to replace it. Other than that, I think the (Q30) is gone for good in it most recent routing.

 

 

Too bad the article doesn't go into the specifics of the plan that the people proposed, but I think they should suggest what the representative for Little Neck suggested, extending the Q30 to the Little Neck train station from the Horace Harding expressway where the Q30 begins. But then what about the rest of the Q79 route? What I liked about the Q79 is that it was the only bus that provided southbound service from Little Neck and Douglaston, with connections to many other bus routes including Long Island Bus, such as the N22 which connects to many other routes at Roosevelt Field and Hicksville LIRR. Cutting the Q79 was cutting the beginning of one of the chains of buses, and in my viewpoint, from someone who lived in Douglaston all their life, and depended on the Q79 for years to get to school, it was a mistake for the MTA to leave the neighborhood stranded when cuts could have been made in other places.

[Q43LTD]

 

Wow Its nice to know that it doesnt take a genius to figure this out LOL. I would have restored it but then extended it to green acres via N2 routing and bypassing floral park to silence the NIMBY ********. The line if extended can be sort of bypass rte you never know it served ppl in areas with cars however where do these ppl drive too often especially in the bronx once you figure that out the revived Q79 in that formation can become a very useful route and attract new riders it was unable to attract in its previous form.

Again, who in Little Neck is trying to get to Green Acres?

[B35 via Church]

err it had the 2nd lowest ridership in the city seriously either bad marketing or no one needed the line. However if marketed as a connector it would have attracted more peeps as it had timed connections with LIB N20/21 and connections with several east-west rtes.

 

Plus if extended it could have been saved actually due to becoming useful. It can return only if reshaped!!! I would not let elmont waste time with nassau rtes cause the elmont area has many peeps going queensbound making the N2 and 1 in their current forms esentially useless to the mainstream public. Q79 can return but not in the same rte it took on in 2010.

Q79 & Nassau county riders have/had nothin in common... there's no relationship b/w the 2.... What I mean is, Q79 riders wadn't seeking Nassau... and that part of Nassau, really wadn't seeking/didn't want the Q79 (as clearly shown w/ the attempt(s) of having it actually extended into Nassau)...

 

What else could you have done with the Q79 to "reshape" it ??

and give me a STRAIGHT answer...

 

 

Can't they simply send a few more Q46's to the farm museum, rather than to bring back a useless route?

I kind of, sort of, agree with this...

 

- Send the 46 (Glen Oaks branch) up to HHE & be done with it....

 

- Split the 12 to end at LIRR Little Neck (as opposed to LIRR Great neck), and HHE (it currently turns SB onto LNP anyway, for the turnaround) ....

 

The terminal space is there to terminate buses along HHE, west of LNP....

[Q43LTD]

There's another problem. What serves Little Neck Pkwy between Union and Jamaica?

[B35 via Church]

There's another problem. What serves Little Neck Pkwy between Union and Jamaica?

 

That's the problem/dilemma I considered; it's exactly why I didn't fully agree w/ FG's post...

(I wouldn't exactly call it useless)

 

of the riders on the 79, a good deal of them did travel to (stops along) b/w Glen Oaks & Jamaica av....

but I wouldn't send the 36 up there....

[Q43LTD]

That's the problem/dilemma I considered; it's exactly why I didn't fully agree w/ FG's post...

(I wouldn't exactly call it useless)

 

of the riders on the 79, a good deal of them did travel to (stops along) b/w Glen Oaks & Jamaica av....

but I wouldn't send the 36 up there....

Oh hell no. I wouldn't send any route that crosses LNP up there. I would just revive the (Q79)

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Since the Q79 bus line was axed last summer, attempted alternatives in the area have flopped.

 

As much as I hate to say it, the folks along Little Neck Parkway should have thought about such things before they decided to not ride the bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As much as I hate to say it, the folks along Little Neck Parkway should have thought about such things before they decided to not ride the bus.

 

Yeah, because it's always the riders fault right?? Seems like you enjoy doing nothing but taking about how lines were axed and how the is broke.

[qjtransitmaster]

Not quite, the M106 wasnt that far off in low ridership either and its 30 minutes headways and it STILL lived through the cuts even though the M116 was just a few blocks away!

 

The Q79 had a specific role in that part of Queens especially since its so far up and that area is hard to get around. Routes like the M106 should've been cut because there are a load of other routes in its area within a short walk. The Q79 doesnt see routes for a good distance in both directions.

 

 

 

The Q46 is already at capacity when it comes to meeting with service, splitting the route even more would likely break its frequency.

 

 

 

For what purpose....Q79 riders didnt want or need service to Green Acres...plus you are trying to appease two types of folks here, that would NOT work out for the regular Q79 folk....

Ok fine you win I was only trying to create extra connection options thats all.

Again, who in Little Neck is trying to get to Green Acres?

 

Its only multipurpose like 2 rtes in one but you have a point here. Truce.

[Nova RTS 9147]

As much as I hate to say it, the folks along Little Neck Parkway should have thought about such things before they decided to not ride the bus.

 

You're chastising people who authentically needed the route for not forcing their neighbours to take a route that has no significance in their commute.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Yeah, because it's always the riders fault right??

 

 

In this case, yes. It's tough to argue that the Q79 "served the community" when the community explicitly rejected it. Such was the case with the Q79.

[Q101viaSteinway]

Community did not rejected it and judge from this post

 

http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=236279

 

people are not going to ride bus just to support the bus people who ride buses are not busfans and ride bus just to support it Q79 was there for people if they needed bus

[Via Garibaldi 8]

In this case, yes. It's tough to argue that the Q79 "served the community" when the community explicitly rejected it. Such was the case with the Q79.

 

Just because ridership was low doesn't mean that community rejected it. What the should do more of is study lines more closely with the community where possible to see how they can improve them. Many of the lines here in the city haven't been touched in years. Meanwhile communities are changing and transportation needs in these communities are changing as well, but the is not keeping up with these changes.

 

Many are quick to say that a route should be killed simply because ridership is low without examining why that is. Any route with poor frequencies and unreliability issues will generally have poor ridership unless there are absolutely no other alternatives around. The question is does the really want to keep some of these lines, or are they doing underhanded BS to see the lines fail? I still think that's the main problem in some cases.