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Transit Looks Into Feasibility of Upgrading Older Fleet


Guest Lance

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This always kind of did make sense. It would basically be the "mid-life rebuild" for the 62/68 fleet, which we assumed would be unnecessary with the better care and SMS these cars had, compared to the 26-46 fleet.

 

What it looks like to me is a cheaper alternative to ordering that many more new cars. Now, they would only have to replace the 32's and 46's, and the 62's and 68's would be brought up to par with the NTT's, and thus more life could be gotten out of them. since they were taken more care of (not in the condition of the 44 and older) and built with more rugged stainless steel to begin with, then you could probably get a lot more life out of them.

 

If they do this, then they must be willing to really redo the systems, because when I suggested just adding digital signs, they said there were not enough pins in the couplers. They should also take the time to remove the unused cabs (may have to move the handbrake), and remove the panels from the end walls, to expose the windows (the unused signs are already mostly removed), so that you could see into the next car like the NTT's.

 

They too said that would be too much work, but apparently they are changing their mind a bit, if they are really considering something like the digital and automated technologies. Hope they finally make the move to RGB technology. (anyone seen the cool little "ticker" signs in the window of the Champs in Times Sq?)

It would also make it not so bad for whichever line (likely the (6) has to give up it's NTT's to the (7) for the R188 program, and get the 62A's back.

 

As for automated announcements, 20 years ago already:eek: they had wired a 68 on the (Q6Av) with it!

There is also space in the 68's at least, for some of the same computer equipment the NTT's have. There were tests done with 2500-3 several years ago, while the 143's were just coming in. So you actually had a (L) T/O job that started at CIYD and worked with a 68 on the mainlines all day.

 

From reading the official MTA document, it seems like they are trying to use wireless technology, e.g. give each car a wireless receiver and transmitter, to overcome the issue with the lack of pins.

How well wireless information would gets transmitted, in those tunnels filled with steel dust, metal, and god knows what else, is something that makes me wonder. I mean, if they still can't get transit police and TA radios to work perfectly, I wonder how well they can implement wireless stuff.

I remember reading that when they were putting in some new wireless equipment for CBTC on the (L), one engineer found that kids playing with remote controlled cars above a subway grate were actually interfering with CBTC signalling, lol.

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Guest lance25

According to the document, it looks like the trains would communicate with a centralized server via WIFI when the train is above ground or at the yard. Or that's the (MTA) wants at least...

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Still, the programming of signs is trainline, not wireless.

 

(Forgot to mention, maybe they should also put in new single hand controllers, completely eliminating the handles. I would love to see the ones like on the M1-6).

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How many trains have lasted as long as they have without all this digitalized stuff on it? You use the R32's as an example, that train is a few years from 50 years old and it STILL doesn't have any digital stuff (that we can see) on it.

 

What about the little flipdot front route signs? Those are digital, albeit a much less sophisticated kind of technology than the red LED route signs on the fronts of the R142-160s. The R32s received those flipdot signs during GOH in 1990-91 and they aren't anywhere near as clear as the rollsigns and marker lights they replaced.

 

Good maintenance on ANY vehicle will keep that bad boy running and those R62's and R68's will run past 40 years with the right kind of care so I don't buy that they need to do stuff like that to keep it running that much longer. The people in the stations need to be on top of their job with the rollsigns. Besides, even with the LCD on the R46's and R142-160's, the riders still don't read what's on there, so what's the point in changing anything? That's my issue with this.

 

That I agree with. Not just that, but the R46 LCD side signs are awful. Half the time, they're stuck on the wrong destination or they're blank. What good are they if they have so much trouble displaying the train's correct route and destination? Were the old motorized roll signs that the R46s had so unreliable that they needed to be replaced during GOH?

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If there is a God then I hope they DON'T do that to the R62/a and R68/a. I don't want the whole system to look bland and sterile.

 

So you'd rather it be outdated and ugly? I'm sorry but the R46s are dingy, and that faux-wood…; I was on the (A) today and it felt so dirty and claustrophobic, and this is coming from someone who uses the Lex every day to get to work and doesn't have a problem. Even simple things like colour schemes make a large difference aesthetically and improving passenger comfort. Make a cross platform transfer between the (1) and (2) and you'll notice that even the size of the car feels different, with the latter being better.

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What about the little flipdot front route signs? Those are digital, albeit a much less sophisticated kind of technology than the red LED route signs on the fronts of the R142-160s. The R32s received those flipdot signs during GOH in 1990-91 and they aren't anywhere near as clear as the rollsigns and marker lights they replaced.

I forgot about that. That flipdot dest. sign should have NEVER been added to that train. It's hard as hell to see what train it is most of the time. It should have remained the way it was pre-GOH.

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so you'd rather it be outdated and ugly? I'm sorry but the r46s are dingy, and that faux-wood…; i was on the (A) today and it felt so dirty and claustrophobic, and this is coming from someone who uses the lex every day to get to work and doesn't have a problem. Even simple things like colour schemes make a large difference aesthetically and improving passenger comfort. Make a cross platform transfer between the (1) and (2) and you'll notice that even the size of the car feels different, with the latter being better.

 

iawtp 1000%!

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I forgot about that. That flipdot dest. sign should have NEVER been added to that train. It's hard as hell to see what train it is most of the time. It should have remained the way it was pre-GOH.

 

I believe the reason they had to use flip dots was due to the ac units placed there and not enough room for the rollsign.

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However won't they give the R68's, and the R62's the sky blue seat treatment? They did the same thing to the R44's on the SIR. If they do I won't really like that due to the fact it will take away leg room.

 

You know what I am talking about. (R44's SIR treatment)

SIR_R44_SMS_Interior_Daylight_m.jpg

Won't they give the R62's the same seats the R142's have?

 

 

Those light blue seats, a lot of them have the paint or wrap on it peeling.

 

If there is a God then I hope they DON'T do that to the R62/a and R68/a. I don't want the whole system to look bland and sterile.

 

Hey, Look at R62A 2153, there is your preview...lol

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They do not need to waste money on this venture. What's the point? Something like what's found on the R46s, okay, but not a full on digital announcement system.

I believe the reason they had to use flip dots was due to the ac units placed there and not enough room for the rollsign.

From what I can understand, that's why.

I remember reading that when they were putting in some new wireless equipment for CBTC on the (L), one engineer found that kids playing with remote controlled cars above a subway grate were actually interfering with CBTC signalling, lol.

Grand Theft Subway: RC :(

Sticky Shift key syndrome
Good lord. My eyes.
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What about the little flipdot front route signs? Those are digital, albeit a much less sophisticated kind of technology than the red LED route signs on the fronts of the R142-160s. The R32s received those flipdot signs during GOH in 1990-91 and they aren't anywhere near as clear as the rollsigns and marker lights they replaced.

 

I forgot about that. That flipdot dest. sign should have NEVER been added to that train. It's hard as hell to see what train it is most of the time. It should have remained the way it was pre-GOH.

You seem to be thinking of a test done on the 44's. He's talking about the 32's, whose whole fleet got the smaller ones.

 

In either case, if they're going to go with a non-trainline single color display, they might as well use the red LED's. I'd rather see them upgrade the current NTT's with color changing ones (my avatar is the model), and then reuse the red signs from the 142's and 160's on the 62A's for (1)(3) service, and the orange signs from the 142A's and 143's on the 68's for (:P(D) service. (At least the color changing capabily wouldn't be needed as much, as the color would usually be correct).

 

That I agree with. Not just that, but the R46 LCD side signs are awful. Half the time, they're stuck on the wrong destination or they're blank. What good are they if they have so much trouble displaying the train's correct route and destination? Were the old motorized roll signs that the R46s had so unreliable that they needed to be replaced during GOH?
LCD was the first digital technology used to replace analog motorized signs (which apparently did get stuck a lot). It was a step up into almost solid state, digital technology. But now, LED technology has improved (even for single color, which is now brighter), so LCD is for the most part outmoded now, as LED is even more solid state and durable.
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this is too help the old trains out with giving info clearly to the passengers, the old trains PA systems are just no good and at best you can make out some of what the crew is saying, they want too make it easier for people too know whats going on and where they are going just like the new cars 142s, r143s and r 160s they all are clear too hear and too see where you are/

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I am personally in favor of this upgrade, to a certain extent. I don't want front roll signs replaced, but would enjoy side screens, and automated announcements.

i agree as much i grew up with roll signs its time for a change.

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The foam came at the end of the torture device - I mean, his post. It hurt to read. The sad thing is that people believe that typing disruptively is necessary.

 

What I still don't get is that if all the NTTs have small LED bullets, why are they changing the old rollsigns?

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What I still don't get is that if all the NTTs have small LED bullets, why are they changing the old rollsigns?

 

Who knows? Remember, it's the MTA. Since when did they do anything that made sense?

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Guest lance25
they might as well do the overhaul for the 68s. i heard from a very realiable source that if the r179s ever get built they are going to staten island. they may not come to the b div.

 

Something has to replace the R32s and R42s as those cars are on borrowed time.

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What I still don't get is that if all the NTTs have small LED bullets, why are they changing the old rollsigns?

 

To make the older cars as flexible as the NTT's. (You could change the line/route instantly, instead of someone having to go through and roll all those signs, or just leave them incorrect).

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Me personally, given the current "situation" the (MTA) is in, it would make better sense to upgrade the cars than to buy whole new cars for the simple fact that its cheaper. The "hippos" & "baby hippos" are about mid-way thorugh their service life. There's still about 25 or so years of life left in those things

 

What the hell does foaming have to do with capitalizing the first letter of every word in a sentence?

 

Because he's keyboard happy to call someone a foamer

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