Question About Harlem/125th Street

[checkmatechamp13]

On the schedules for the New Haven Line, it says that all trains stopping at 125th Street are drop off only inbound and pick-up only inbound.

 

My question is why would they deprive themselves of revenue from the few passengers who are willing to make that trip on Metro-North. Maybe they don't want to deal with the crowds on the Lexington Avenue Line, or maybe they have a pass between Grand Central and another area and are using Metro-North rather than the subway to avoid paying $2.25.

 

There aren't enough people boarding/alighting to delay the train, so why bother having this rule.

 

Do the conductors enforce this rule? If they see somebody getting on/off with a ticket between 125th Street and Grand Central, will they say anything (and to the ticket agents/TVMs sell Harlem-Grand Central tickets)?

[Amtrak7]

On the schedules for the New Haven Line, it says that all trains stopping at 125th Street are drop off only inbound and pick-up only inbound.

 

My question is why would they deprive themselves of revenue from the few passengers who are willing to make that trip on Metro-North. Maybe they don't want to deal with the crowds on the Lexington Avenue Line, or maybe they have a pass between Grand Central and another area and are using Metro-North rather than the subway to avoid paying $2.25.

 

There aren't enough people boarding/alighting to delay the train, so why bother having this rule.

 

Do the conductors enforce this rule? If they see somebody getting on/off with a ticket between 125th Street and Grand Central, will they say anything (and to the ticket agents/TVMs sell Harlem-Grand Central tickets)?

 

There is a rule that prohibits local customers from being carried on NHL trains within NYC (hence why no Fordham-GCT either). I believe that the rule is part of the operating agreement with CT, but I may be wrong about that.

 

It is possible to buy a Harlem-GCT ticket. Many inbound weekend/off-peak non-NHL trains have Harlem as an H-stop: you can get on, but train may leave early. Outbound locals have it as a regular stop, you can't get off any outbound semi-express or express that stops there.

[Shortline Bus]

There is a rule that prohibits local customers from being carried on NHL trains within NYC (hence why no Fordham-GCT either). I believe that the rule is part of the operating agreement with CT, but I may be wrong about that.

 

It is possible to buy a Harlem-GCT ticket. Many inbound weekend/off-peak non-NHL trains have Harlem as an H-stop: you can get on, but train may leave early. Outbound locals have it as a regular stop, you can't get off any outbound semi-express or express that stops there.

 

Pretty much you are correct Amtrak in your above comments about no intracity in NYC on New Haven trains. Only little bit error is that all NH(also the Hudson and Harlem Valley(Southeast-Wassic)lines) trains stop at 125th weekday evenings after 8pm and all times weekends/holidays.

[lilbluefoxie]

There is a rule that prohibits local customers from being carried on NHL trains within NYC (hence why no Fordham-GCT either). I believe that the rule is part of the operating agreement with CT, but I may be wrong about that.

 

It is possible to buy a Harlem-GCT ticket. Many inbound weekend/off-peak non-NHL trains have Harlem as an H-stop: you can get on, but train may leave early. Outbound locals have it as a regular stop, you can't get off any outbound semi-express or express that stops there.

 

you can get off the train there, if the doors open just go, teh issue is from what i read they have to charge you the fare from the first stop past fordham.

 

Its cheaper to take the 4/5 to 125 tho and walk a block

[B35 via Church]

On the schedules for the New Haven Line, it says that all trains stopping at 125th Street are drop off only inbound and pick-up only inbound.

 

My question is why would they deprive themselves of revenue from the few passengers who are willing to make that trip on Metro-North. Maybe they don't want to deal with the crowds on the Lexington Avenue Line, or maybe they have a pass between Grand Central and another area and are using Metro-North rather than the subway to avoid paying $2.25.

 

There aren't enough people boarding/alighting to delay the train, so why bother having this rule.

 

Do the conductors enforce this rule? If they see somebody getting on/off with a ticket between 125th Street and Grand Central, will they say anything (and to the ticket agents/TVMs sell Harlem-Grand Central tickets)?

 

My question to you is, even if you wanted to do that, and knowing whether there is a rule (that's enforced or not) w/ riding b/w 125th & 42nd (or vice versa).... why take a New Haven line train? you have the hudson & the harlem line to choose from

 

Jokes aside, no they don't enforce that.... worst you'll get out of a conductor are stupefied looks, or your occasional "why don't you take the subway" question.... you'll rarely get the hard-nosed c/r that'll deny you access & outright tell you to go take the subway....

 

as long as you have a ticket, you won't get thrown off....

 

I've been on many MNRR trains (mostly hudson line trains, since I used to travel to peekskill to visit some relatives) where someone would board @ 125th, seeking GCT.... I used to *smh* every time it happened

[Truckie]

Harlem-125 St isn't the biggest of problems with New Haven Line trains. The problem is worse at Fordham.

 

If a passenger boards a New Haven Line train @ Fordham to go to GCT, the conductor is supposed to charge a ride extension to Mount Vernon East (or the last station). If a passenger takes a New Haven Line train from GCT to Fordham, again, the conductor is supposed to extend the fare to the next station.

 

I do not know if the rules are strictly enforced but I do know there is some enforcment of the fare extensions based on some of the revenue reports I've seen. Extentions from Zone 1 to Zone 12 (125 to MVE) and Zone 2 to Zone 12 (Fordham to MVE) happens fairly regularly.

 

For 125th street/GCT specifically, the only trains that passengers are supposed to travel on between the two stations are Harlem and Hudson Line LOCAL trains. Per the time tables and departure boards, the upper line trains, 125th is for receiving passengers on out bound trains and discharging passengers on GCT bound trains.

[checkmatechamp13]

you can get off the train there, if the doors open just go, teh issue is from what i read they have to charge you the fare from the first stop past fordham.

 

Its cheaper to take the 4/5 to 125 tho and walk a block

 

I know that, I was just curious.

 

Harlem-125 St isn't the biggest of problems with New Haven Line trains. The problem is worse at Fordham.

 

If a passenger boards a New Haven Line train @ Fordham to go to GCT, the conductor is supposed to charge a ride extension to Mount Vernon East (or the last station). If a passenger takes a New Haven Line train from GCT to Fordham, again, the conductor is supposed to extend the fare to the next station.

 

I do not know if the rules are strictly enforced but I do know there is some enforcment of the fare extensions based on some of the revenue reports I've seen. Extentions from Zone 1 to Zone 12 (125 to MVE) and Zone 2 to Zone 12 (Fordham to MVE) happens fairly regularly.

 

For 125th street/GCT specifically, the only trains that passengers are supposed to travel on between the two stations are Harlem and Hudson Line LOCAL trains. Per the time tables and departure boards, the upper line trains, 125th is for receiving passengers on out bound trains and discharging passengers on GCT bound trains.

 

Fordham I could actually see a decent number of riders getting on. It is a lot faster to take Metro-North than it is to take the Bx12 and sit through all of the local stops on the

 

Actually, a relative of mine had the option transferring to a job near the Woodlawn station, but decided not to because of the long commute: He didn't mind sitting on the X17J for 45 minutes, but then he didn't want to spend another 45 minutes while the train made all local stops in The Bronx (it was the fact that the train was local that bothered him, not the fact that it was in The Bronx). If he realized that the Harlem Line went to Woodlawn, he might've decided to take it, and then take the Bx16 to work.

 

So then, if somebody (say a Fordham University student) wanted to buy a monthly pass to Fordham, they could ride for free if they took a local train. If they took a New Haven Line train, they would have to pay the difference between Fordham and Mount Vernon East, correct?

 

My question to you is, even if you wanted to do that, and knowing whether there is a rule (that's enforced or not) w/ riding b/w 125th & 42nd (or vice versa).... why take a New Haven line train? you have the hudson & the harlem line to choose from

 

Jokes aside, no they don't enforce that.... worst you'll get out of a conductor are stupefied looks, or your occasional "why don't you take the subway" question.... you'll rarely get the hard-nosed c/r that'll deny you access & outright tell you to go take the subway....

 

as long as you have a ticket, you won't get thrown off....

 

I've been on many MNRR trains (mostly hudson line trains, since I used to travel to peekskill to visit some relatives) where someone would board @ 125th, seeking GCT.... I used to *smh* every time it happened

 

So that applies even on the New Haven Line then?

 

By the way, out of the passengers that were suggested to take the subway, how many actually did so?

[HomeBall]

Jokes aside, no they don't enforce that.... worst you'll get out of a conductor are stupefied looks, or your occasional "why don't you take the subway" question.... you'll rarely get the hard-nosed c/r that'll deny you access & outright tell you to go take the subway....

 

as long as you have a ticket, you won't get thrown off....

 

I've been on many MNRR trains (mostly hudson line trains, since I used to travel to peekskill to visit some relatives) where someone would board @ 125th, seeking GCT.... I used to *smh* every time it happened

 

Yes, that rule is enforced. I enforce all the time. A lot of times it's people going to Fordham from GCT or vice-versa, if I get them I will always charge them(happened twice last week), but they usually prefer to get off at 125th.

 

And yes, if you had a monthly GCT to Fordham on a New Haven Line train, you would be charged the extension to Mt. Vernon East(or the next regular station stop).

[checkmatechamp13]

Yes, that rule is enforced. I enforce all the time. A lot of times it's people going to Fordham from GCT or vice-versa, if I get them I will always charge them(happened twice last week), but they usually prefer to get off at 125th.

 

And yes, if you had a monthly GCT to Fordham on a New Haven Line train, you would be charged the extension to Mt. Vernon East(or the next regular station stop).

 

So if, say you were on the 8:10AM train from Greenwich (looking at the schedule), and somebody got on at Fordham, you'd charge them the fare to Harrison?

 

So let me get this straight:

Local Hudson/Harlem Line trains allow you to go from Harlem to Grand Central for the regular fare.

 

Express Hudson/Harlem Line trains and all New Haven Line (plus the 3 branches) trains will allow you to travel from Harlem to Grand Central if you pay the fare to the next station north of Harlem.

 

One more thing: If you take a train that only stops in the Northern Bronx, but bypasses the southern Bronx (like the 6:39AM train from Crestwood) to Grand Central, you'll only get charged the Northern Bronx-Grand Central fare, correct?

[HomeBall]

So if, say you were on the 8:10AM train from Greenwich (looking at the schedule), and somebody got on at Fordham, you'd charge them the fare to Harrison?

 

In that case, yes you will be charged from Harrison.

 

So let me get this straight:

Local Hudson/Harlem Line trains allow you to go from Harlem to Grand Central for the regular fare.

 

Express Hudson/Harlem Line trains and all New Haven Line (plus the 3 branches) trains will allow you to travel from Harlem to Grand Central if you pay the fare to the next station north of Harlem.

 

 

You have to look at the timetables some trains stopping at 125th Street are marked as "D" or "R" stops, "Discharge Only" and "Receive Only" respectively. On those stops the conductor does not have to open all doors, but only enough to receive or discharge passengers depending on the kind of stop.

 

One more thing: If you take a train that only stops in the Northern Bronx, but bypasses the southern Bronx (like the 6:39AM train from Crestwood) to Grand Central, you'll only get charged the Northern Bronx-Grand Central fare, correct?

 

All stops in the Bronx on the Harlem and Hudson line are in fare zone 2. So the prices would be the same for all stops in that zone.

[B35 via Church]

Yes, that rule is enforced. I enforce all the time. A lot of times it's people going to Fordham from GCT or vice-versa, if I get them I will always charge them(happened twice last week), but they usually prefer to get off at 125th.

Yeah it is worse @ Fordham, but CC13 (threadstarter) asked about GCT, so I bothered not to mention it....

 

I stand corrected on my original statement....

Let me revise it to say, that rule is generally not enforced....

 

Good to know there are folk that don't take their careers/jobs for granted.... then again, from the perspective as a passenger/"someone on the outside", I wouldn't expect an MNRR c/r to sit there & say they don't enforce a certain rule....

 

 

So that applies even on the New Haven Line then?

 

By the way, out of the passengers that were suggested to take the subway, how many actually did so?

I would never know, since I was the person still on the MNRR

(out of a few hundred usages on the MNRR [fanning or NON-fanning purposes], there's only been 1 time I've ever disembarked a east-of-hudson (river) GCT bound train, where I didn't disembark at GCT itself)...

 

I would stop to think that said person would wait for the next incoming train... For the life of me, I (still) don't understand why people would even bother...

[HomeBall]

I've been on many MNRR trains (mostly hudson line trains, since I used to travel to peekskill to visit some relatives) where someone would board @ 125th, seeking GCT.... I used to *smh* every time it happened

 

I stand corrected on my original statement....

Let me revise it to say, that rule is generally not enforced....

 

Well then how can you know how much a rule is enforced if you mostly ride on a line on which the rule doesn't apply? Most conductors do enforce it, but it can be counterproductive running around a crowded train just to get one person and miss a bunch of others.

 

Just to be clear there is nothing wrong going from GCT to H125 or vice-versa, you just have to have the right ticket on the right train. It's a perfectly valid ticket and there are people who have monthlies GCT to Harlem 125th.

[B35 via Church]

Well then how can you know how much a rule is enforced if you mostly ride on a line on which the rule doesn't apply? Most conductors do enforce it, but it can be counterproductive running around a crowded train just to get one person and miss a bunch of others.

 

Just to be clear there is nothing wrong going from GCT to H125 or vice-versa, you just have to have the right ticket on the right train. It's a perfectly valid ticket and there are people who have monthlies GCT to Harlem 125th.

 

1st paragraph: That point of view (that question) would hold more water if I never been on a NH train; which isn't the case.... I can only formulate my opinions from my experiences, and from my depictions, c/r's aren't goin out their way to either deny or question someone bothering to (attempting to) travel b/w GCT & 125th....

 

2nd paragraph:...is the main sticking point in all this.

[HomeBall]

1st paragraph: That point of view (that question) would hold more water if I never been on a NH train; which isn't the case.... I can only formulate my opinions from my experiences, and from my depictions, c/r's aren't goin out their way to either deny or question someone bothering to (attempting to) travel b/w GCT & 125th....

 

The reason you don't see it much oddly enough is because conductors do enforce it when they can and people wise up to it and don't want to put themselves through the trouble. Besides the fact that very few people ride between GCT and 125th anyway. Also the station lists at GCT never show New Haven line trains as stopping at GCT. So even the novice commuter who would look at the station list at the train gate wouldn't see Harlem 125th listed. Hudson and Harlem line trains do, and those trains do have regulars going from GCT to Harlem 125th.

[Matt91]

This has been done for a very long time, the NY central and NYHH made the agreement at the beginning of the last century. For more info and how it's relevant today, take a look at http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=49542

[Rutgers Tube]

Occasionally I'll hear a NHL conductor advise people that if they're on the wrong train, that they can get off at 125th and a different train. I most often hear that on an express that departs a few minutes prior to a local, especially if the train is mobbed with tourists because of some event or whatever.

 

I've also heard a few conductors, while making the pre-departure announcements, lead into the station stops with something along the lines of, "... train to New Haven. This train will first stop at Harlem-125th Street to receive passengers only, and will then run express to Stamford..." I don't hear NHL conductors announce R station stops all that often, but I also haven't heard most of the NHL conductors.