It's not the cleanest or prettiest, but is the NY Subway the best in the world?

[Grand Concourse]

Biggest problem of the New York system is the people who board train, uncivilized and lacking common sence, they are making subway a terrible place to be. Why should improve the stations, if they would be trashed in matter of months. I bet, if overnight all the stations would be replaced with, let's say Moscow metro style stations, they would be in decay in less then a year.

 

As much as I would like to see: great looking, clean, on-time and reliable subway service in New York, it won't happen, probably ever.

 

At the end of the day, we got what we got, make peace with it or GTFO.

 

Problem is the stations are open 24/7. If the MTA were to close stations at least 5 hrs a night every night [or closed 1 day a week], the system could be cleaned up somewhat. That plus the system could benefit from harsher laws that say Singapore and such places have with strict penalties for littering and stuff.

[overclocked]

Problem is the stations are open 24/7. If the MTA were to close stations at least 5 hrs a night every night [or closed 1 day a week], the system could be cleaned up somewhat. That plus the system could benefit from harsher laws that say Singapore and such places have with strict penalties for littering and stuff.

I agree, plus in addition to the laws we would also need Enforcement of the said laws. imo, the food ban would immediatelly make system look better. Unfortunatelly it would never happen too :mad:.

[Urbanfortitude]

The rats doesn't even show themselves often. They run on the tracks, and the rail bed. I haven't seen a rat crawl up onto the platform as of yet, and I have to yet see one even try.

 

Chambers St. & Astor Place would like a word with you.

[Caelestor]

One inexpensive way to make the stations cleaner and get rid of the trash on the tracks is to simply ban eating/drinking/smoking, but I can't see that happening.

[Quill Depot]

I guess you guys don't get the purpose of the subway. It's to get you from point A to point B. It could be improved but the purpose is not to ride in a fancy subway car with stations of gold. This is New York people! I know there may be some rat problems or problems with people who board the trains but it gets you where you want to go. And thats the thing about. So stop being picky and complaining about EVERY LITTLE THING! We shouldn't be complaining to the MTA, we should be complaining to those peeps who don't respect our subway. But there is a thing that the MTA does wrong. The MTA try's to fix the future before they fix today. They don't understand that the Second Ave Subway will never be competed because there not fixing the rat problems and other things.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I guess you guys don't get the purpose of the subway. It's to get you from point A to point B. It could be improved but the purpose is not to ride in a fancy subway car with stations of gold. This is New York people! I know there may be some rat problems or problems with people who board the trains but it gets you where you want to go. And thats the thing about. So stop being picky and complaining about EVERY LITTLE THING! We shouldn't be complaining to the MTA, we should be complaining to those peeps who don't respect our subway. But there is a thing that the MTA does wrong. The MTA try's to fix the future before they fix today. They don't understand that the Second Ave Subway will never be competed because there not fixing the rat problems and other things.

 

We certainly get the point of the subway, but it should not just get you from point A to point B. It should get you there efficiently and be relatively clean as well. That certainly is not asking much and the problem is the less you complain, the less the does. It's funny how people admit that the should be doing more, but yet they say that passengers shouldn't ask for too much. lol If that's the attitude then make the tolls less expensive and let more people drive to work and see how fun that would be.

[chrisliz09]

in DC and some other systems like path already ban eating on the trains and platforms and you can see the difference its nice and clean, they should do that here and they are thinking about it now, it is a mess down there its like giving kids a chance too show they can behave and they dont so you take it away. if the people here did the rite thing and put the trash in the trash and or took with them when they got off than we would have a much cleaner system, but they dont and they are so mad we have rats and garbage all over the place. i hope they do rule against it.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[LRG]

in DC and some other systems like path already ban eating on the trains and platforms and you can see the difference its nice and clean, they should do that here and they are thinking about it now, it is a mess down there its like giving kids a chance too show they can behave and they dont so you take it away. if the people here did the rite thing and put the trash in the trash and or took with them when they got off than we would have a much cleaner system, but they dont and they are so mad we have rats and garbage all over the place. i hope they do rule against it.

 

Eating and drinking is not gonna be banned anytime soon...just so you know...

[SoSpectacular]

I am just happy that the trains run when they can, other than that I have no issues

[WMATA]

Eating and drinking is not gonna be banned anytime soon...just so you know...

 

There's just too many riders to enforce a no eating/drinking ban. People will just sneak food in their pockets anyway.

[overclocked]

There's just too many riders to enforce a no eating/drinking ban. People will just sneak food in their pockets anyway.

At least it will bring down the amount of garbage in the system. For extremelly stubborn, paying a rather large fine couple of times should wake up their brains, maybe it will teach them something?

 

Are there any ideas on what to do with homeless?

[Quill Depot]

where I admit other cities have an edge in one area or another, none are as well rounded as the Subway.

 

6000+ cars serving 468 stations; 466 of which are open 24/7, carring over 5 million people a day every work day.

 

And it works. It's little more than controled chaos most of the time, but it works.

 

Thank You. It works!!!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

At least it will bring down the amount of garbage in the system. For extremelly stubborn, paying a rather large fine couple of times should wake up their brains, maybe it will teach them something?

 

Are there any ideas on what to do with homeless?

 

Uh, yeah get them a place to live!! There's a black dude right near my office building on 5th Avenue and 45th st who has hangs out there all day and night. The other night I was working late in the office and I walk out through the 5th Avenue side to cross the street to get the express bus and I see him there hanging out talking to himself as if he's an undercover agent or something. He's the only one that is in need of mental help, but there are two other homeless folks that I see on my way to the office every morning like clockwork. And Bloomberg claims that homeless stats are down. B)

 

Funny thing is once I was getting lunch w/a colleague downstairs in Grand Central where they have all of those food vendors and we saw what looked like some folks from the with yellow jackets on going around looking for homeless folks in the terminal trying to convince them to come with them. Not sure where they take them, but these folks are right back there again. I don't even bother to go downstairs anymore because they come around and pick through the garbage and such. Whenever I do eat in Grand Central for lunch now it's in a restaurant in the upstairs area over by Cipriani or near the Godiva Chocolatier store, this way I can eat in peace and not have bums all around. It's not exactly my idea of sanitary conditions when eating food. :eek:

[overclocked]

Uh, yeah get them a place to live!! There's a black dude right near my office building on 5th Avenue and 45th st who has hangs out there all day and night. The other night I was working late in the office and I walk out through the 5th Avenue side to cross the street to get the express bus and I see him there hanging out talking to himself as if he's an undercover agent or something. He's the only one that is in need of mental help, but there are two other homeless folks that I see on my way to the office every morning like clockwork. And Bloomberg claims that homeless stats are down. B)

Too bad that there are no money to do so, or that what "guys in the office" say.

Honestly I don't think that if they would have a place to live, it would completely eradicate the problem. The way I see it only radical measures would help, but they create so much mess, that I would rather have it the way we have it today. maybe cleaner. :confused:

[checkmatechamp13]

It's a frustrating system because of all the maintenance. Good luck nights and weekends.

 

One thing about NYCT is it motivates one to own a car.

 

I hope that you are aware that 55% of NYC households don't own a car.

 

And your point is?? Just a poor excuse. The even admits that it could be done, we would just have to pay more for it. The problem is people are too cheap and don't care enough about the system to keep it clean. I would certainly pay more for a clean subway.

 

I wouldn't pay extra, but I do agree that a lot of the blame lies on people who make a mess of the subway.

 

Yes, of course. That's the phrase of the day. How dare me suggest that folks pay more for quality and cleaner service.

 

You have to consider that there are a lot of people who could care less about how clean the system is as long as the trains run.

 

So true!!

 

As Forest Glen would say, "incorrect".

 

I cannot believe people are hoping for fare hikes just so the system could be cleaner.

 

How you ever thought about... gee IDK, maybe buying a car?

 

And NYers being cheap? Do you realize how expensive it is to live here vs the rest of the U.S?

 

Buying a car is a lot more expensive than taking transit, unless you squeeze every trip out of it you can get (say, if you have a really large family and are able to have the car in use at all times). $104 per month is around the cost of car insurance here in Staten Island. In Brooklyn and the rest of the boroughs, it is even more.

 

Two of the systems I listed (London, Seoul) are similar in size to the NYC subway.

 

 

 

The Washington Metro was meant to take people from the suburbs in Maryland and Virginia to downtown DC. It was not meant for intra-city travel. That doesn't change the fact that it is a much better system than the NYC subway.

 

 

 

The last time I used the DC Metro was in June 2010. The escalators in the NYC subway also break down. Whenever I walk down to the platform at Jamaica Center I'm greeted by the smell of urine. At least on the DC Metro people can take a nap without being disturbed by a panhandler/preacher/kid selling candy/breakdancer/Mariachi band. Spend a day riding the NYC subway and you'll realize how lucky you are.

 

But that means that the Metro isn't even a real subway. With the zoned fare and spacing of the stations, it is comparable to say, Metro-North or the LIRR reaching until, say Zone 3 or 4.

 

Problem is the stations are open 24/7. If the MTA were to close stations at least 5 hrs a night every night [or closed 1 day a week], the system could be cleaned up somewhat. That plus the system could benefit from harsher laws that say Singapore and such places have with strict penalties for littering and stuff.

 

Unfortunately, the city that never sleeps needs its subway running 24/7.

 

We certainly get the point of the subway, but it should not just get you from point A to point B. It should get you there efficiently and be relatively clean as well. That certainly is not asking much and the problem is the less you complain, the less the does. It's funny how people admit that the should be doing more, but yet they say that passengers shouldn't ask for too much. lol If that's the attitude then make the tolls less expensive and let more people drive to work and see how fun that would be.

 

Or, you can raise the tolls and use the money to help maintain the system. Why hasn't congestion pricing been implemented? :mad:

[geoking66]

Good question. I'd say that the NYC Subway is one of the world's best, but not the best in the world, in part because that's impossible to rank. What counts and how do you weigh it? If you like pretty stations, then Moscow probably wins. Efficiency? Tokyo. History? London. Rapidly growing? São Paulo. The subway has some incredibly good features and some not so good ones, but it definitely works incredibly well considering its age, complexity, and history.

 

There are two ways to look at the subway compared to its international peers. The first is to point out that, if all are equal, NYC is far behind many other cities in terms of technology, cleanliness, ease of use, and fare collection and integration mechanisms. Probably the only system with over one million daily users without thorough real time information and computerised signalling (apart from the L and the IRT), headways are much larger than they should be, especially during rush hour. Much of the system is at capacity, although with proper investment it shouldn't be too hard to increase passenger throughput. Because the subway uses outdated equipment, so much of the system is run manually, a liability that significantly increases wait times and hinders growth and reliability. Part of this problem is unavoidable, even with computers, because of the fact that the subway is perhaps the only system that has distinctions between lines and services, with the end result of serious interlining complexity. Add that to the express/local division and it's no wonder that CBTC and real time information implementation is so difficult and costly. Of course for cleanliness NYC is behind, but that's also a product of those who ride it and the sheer scale of the system (over 400 stations spread along the largest routing of any rapid transit system) that makes cleaning a difficult task.

 

However, looking at the subway in terms of what it's been through since 1904, it's pretty remarkable that it functions so well. Few other rapid transit systems have gone through such success and then neglect. Juts look at the subway back in the '70s and '80s when it was about to fall apart compared to now with NTT and a ton of station renovations. In that regard NYC has done pretty damn well.

 

That all being said, the subway does have some features that really do enable it to work well and set it apart from the rest of the world. The most obvious (besides 24/7, which to me is more of a gimmick than anything else; how many people are riding the subway at 4am, even when considering how round-the-clock this city is) the extensive use of a local/express division, not only in Manhattan but also in Brooklyn and Queens. In particular the IRT Lexington Avenue/Eastern Parkway Line setup south of Brooklyn Bridge is brilliant in its use of interlining express lines in Manhattan to a local/express setup in Downtown Brooklyn. It's also incredibly extensive and dense, even when compared to many European cities.

 

Overall, I'd say that the NYC subway occupies a position in the top league of rapid transit systems throughout the world, and which is the best is subjective at most.

[R68 Subway Car]

Let me chime on this: Does the NYC Subway have crap load of problems? Yes. However, the NYC Subway has improved dramatically since the 1970s. We have gone from this:

 

 

to this:

 

 

I mean think of this: We have gone from rickety old trains which broke down on a frequent basis to high tech trains which have automated announcements (no more garbled bullshit), electronic signs and clocks to tell us the time. We no longer have trains covered with graffiti. We no longer have trains that are structurally falling apart (remember all that tape on the roofs of the R40 Slants). The MTA is improving the signals of the subway system and bringing them to modern standards. The MTA has introduced countdown clocks to the system. In addition, the MTA has improved many of its subway stations and continue to do so. Although it is far from perfect, look at how far it has come.

[R68 Subway Car]

I hate to see you guys complain. If you guys were in the 1970's and the 1980's you would be really complaining. Accept it the way it is people. Our subway had a worse time then today. I hate to see some people yap about it when they know about it in the worse days. I will post this video to prove it.

 

I mean look at that. Look at all the dark cars interiors. You never see that today.

[Roadcruiser1]

It has only been 20-30 years since we have had gotten out of the horrible falling apart era of our subway system. In reality it wasn't a long time ago considering how old our subway is. Our subway is over 100 years old.

[R68 Subway Car]

I wouldn't call our subway the best in the world but it's pretty much the LARGEST system out there.

 

It's a good thing most of you who railfans today weren't around in the 1970s and 1980s because everything was a disaster. You'd have been mugged, robbed, shot, whatever could've happened had you brought a fancy film camera down there. Hell I know I wouldn't have!

Exactly. Crime was rampant in the subway back in the day. The subway could not be any safer today. I do not have to constantly watch my back like people had to in the 70s and 80s.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Let me chime on this: Does the NYC Subway have crap load of problems? Yes. However, the NYC Subway has improved dramatically since the 1970s. We have gone from this:

 

 

to this:

 

 

I mean think of this: We have gone from rickety old trains which broke down on a frequent basis to high tech trains which have automated announcements (no more garbled bullshit), electronic signs and clocks to tell us the time. We no longer have trains covered with graffiti. We no longer have trains that are structurally falling apart (remember all that tape on the roofs of the R40 Slants). The MTA is improving the signals of the subway system and bringing them to modern standards. The MTA has introduced countdown clocks to the system. In addition, the MTA has improved many of its subway stations and continue to do so. Although it is far from perfect, look at how far it has come.

 

Yeah, new subway cars that they don't clean and drag garbage into with the riding public; subwy stations that they rehab and then let fall right back into horrible conditions... We've come a long way indeed. Where we're going is the big question. :eek:

[R68 Subway Car]

 

It's not the greatest, but we do move with efficiency and ease. Unfortunately, people ask for too much.

Exactly. Something the public uses cannot be as efficiently maintained as something privately owned.

[R68 Subway Car]

Our Subway may not be best the world, but it does the job it's supposed to do- to get us from point A to point B. Of couse, we are behind other major transit systems from around the world, but you must remember that

 

1) We run 24 hours nonstop, the whole 365 days of the year. In short, the whole package. Not many transit systems can say the same thing.

 

2) Roadcruiser1 makes a very important point. While other cites were expanding or building new transit systems in the 60's, 70's & 80's, we were deferring maintenance- and leaving it to the next generation. We still suffer some of the scars of that era-the cost to get the system on a state of good repair is one of those, hence the massive service changes we suffer on late nights and weekends.

 

But given the amount of people who ride the system everyday- 5.2 Million being the latest number - the system does a pretty a good job of getting us to point A to point B, from our houses to work/school, from school/work back to our homes, and from our homes to catch the game. We have a long way to go to be the "best in the world" but we definitely are up in the top-just not #1.

Thank you for getting that. Some cities would die to have a transportation system.

[R68 Subway Car]

The NYC subway isn't even the best system in the tri-state area. It's full of bums and rats. Stations are dirty and trains are overcrowded. Whenever I try to take a nap on the train, I'm disturbed by panhandlers, preachers, Mariachi bands, and kids selling candy.

 

1) Its New York. New York has a massive homeless population.

 

2) Once again, it is New York. New York's rat and mice population is crazy. It is not the fault of the MTA that New York has so many rats and mice.

 

3) Once again, it is New York. Stations are dirty as a result of people leaving their food and trash everywhere. Many of those subway systems you praise have strict rules on food eating and trash. People leaving their food and trash all around is a huge reason why it has a massive rodent population.

 

4) Once again, it's New York. New York has tons of crazy people here.

 

As I stated before, nothing government-run can be perfect (why do you think I oppose ObamaCare). However, for all of its myriad of problems and imperfections, it has gotten better.