Reverse Peak Limited Stop Service on SI?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well last night I saw the weirdest thing. I got off of the X30 and was walking down Forest Avenue and I see what I assumed to be an S48 at Elizabeth & Forest. As I got closer to Elizabeth, I realized that it was an S98 (a Nova Bus) going to St. George and it was in service with people riding it, which explained why the person waiting at the stop there wasn't moving towards the bus to get on. This was around say 19:30 or so. Now I know there is usually a lot of demand for S48s around that time because I see folks waiting when I'm on the X30, but did they suddenly start running S98s in the reverse direction during peak hours or was this just a fluke?? I checked the schedule on line and they don't show any S98s running at that time going towards St. George. :confused:

[LRG]

Must have been a mistake. I'm not aware of any such changes either and the pick for S.I. goes in effect this Sunday.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Must have been a mistake. I'm not aware of any such changes either and the pick for S.I. goes in effect this Sunday.

 

I'll be on the lookout tonite assuming that I take the X30. Maybe cartmann can shed some light on this though. :cool:

[Santa Fe via Willow]

It might be a case of a driver putting the wrong sign on accidentally, or forgot to change the sign for the return trip to the Ferry. Or a bus with a jammed sign:(

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It might be a case of a driver putting the wrong sign on accidentally, or forgot to change the sign for the return trip to the Ferry. Or a bus with a jammed sign:(

 

I don't know about that. There is a stop there at Elizabeth & Forest and a passenger was waiting and he passed the stop and went on just like he was a normal S98 and he sure as heck had the S98 sign up. The bus wasn't packed, but it was certainly full in terms of seated folks. I'm hoping it isn't a fluke. As I've said before reverse limited stop peak service is certainly needed on Staten Island.

[Shortline Bus]

Dumb Question? Besides the (S93) and (S89)which both should be expanded to run all day weekdays and for a few hours on Saturdays IMO, are any of the St George's Terminal that run in both directions during the rush hours?

 

If not routes like the (S44) Limited,(S84) aka S74 Limited, and (S48) Limited should all run in both directions the entire rush hour.:confused:

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't know about that. There is a stop there at Elizabeth & Forest and a passenger was waiting and he passed the stop and went on just like he was a normal S98 and he sure as heck had the S98 sign up. The bus wasn't packed, but it was certainly full in terms of seated folks. I'm hoping it isn't a fluke. As I've said before reverse limited stop peak service is certainly needed on Staten Island.

 

Ridership is generally weak west of Richmond Avenue reverse-peak, so they could have the S98 run the full route to Arlington and cut the S48 back to Richmond Avenue.

 

Dumb Question? Besides the (S93) and (S89)which both should be expanded to run all day weekdays and for a few hours on Saturdays IMO, are any of the St George's Terminal that run in both directions during the rush hours?

 

If not routes like the (S44) Limited,(S84) aka S74 Limited, and (S48) Limited should all run in both directions the entire rush hour.:confused:

 

The S89 should definitely be cut back to 8th Street to reduce costs. The savings could then be used to run it as a shuttle every 40 minutes off-peak and on Saturdays between Forest Avenue and 8th Street.

 

That, and the headways later in the evening could be increased from 15 minutes to 20-25 minutes.

 

The S84 and S94 don't have the demand for reverse-peak service.

[Shortline Bus]

Ridership is generally weak west of Richmond Avenue reverse-peak, so they could have the S98 run the full route to Arlington and cut the S48 back to Richmond Avenue.

 

 

 

The S89 should definitely be cut back to 8th Street to reduce costs. The savings could then be used to run it as a shuttle every 40 minutes off-peak and on Saturdays between Forest Avenue and 8th Street.

 

That, and the headways later in the evening could be increased from 15 minutes to 20-25 minutes.

 

The S84 and S94 don't have the demand for reverse-peak service.

 

Agreed. Run the (S89) off peak every 40-60 minutes weekday middays and if expanded to Saturdays (i.e 7am-9pm)every 30-60 minutes between Forest/Richmond Ave and the 8th Street-Bayone LRT (NJT) station.

[checkmatechamp13]

Agreed. Run the (S89) off peak every 40-60 minutes weekday middays and if expanded to Saturdays (i.e 7am-9pm)every 30-60 minutes between Forest/Richmond Ave and the 8th Street-Bayone LRT (NJT) station.

 

I picked 40 minutes because the HBLR runs every 20 minutes off-peak and weekends, so it would be best if the headways were a multiple of 20.

 

Since the trip between Forest Avenue and 8th Street would take about 15 minutes, you only need one bus to make the trip (5 minutes of layover).

 

I also think service should be reduced a bit during rush hour (and I know firsthand considering the fact that I ride it almost every day)

[Shortline Bus]

I picked 40 minutes because the HBLR runs every 20 minutes off-peak and weekends, so it would be best if the headways were a multiple of 20.

 

Since the trip between Forest Avenue and 8th Street would take about 15 minutes, you only need one bus to make the trip (5 minutes of layover).

 

I also think service should be reduced a bit during rush hour (and I know firsthand considering the fact that I ride it almost every day)

 

Good ideas Checkmate. That one service cut that the could do. The only reason I think of that the (S89)terminal is still at the 34th St station is that a shopping center is located right near there.

[Pablo M 201]

Good ideas Checkmate. That one service cut that the could do. The only reason I think of that the (S89)terminal is still at the 34th St station is that a shopping center is located right near there.

Not true.

[cartmn1210]

Well last night I saw the weirdest thing. I got off of the X30 and was walking down Forest Avenue and I see what I assumed to be an S48 at Elizabeth & Forest. As I got closer to Elizabeth, I realized that it was an S98 (a Nova Bus) going to St. George and it was in service with people riding it, which explained why the person waiting at the stop there wasn't moving towards the bus to get on. This was around say 19:30 or so. Now I know there is usually a lot of demand for S48s around that time because I see folks waiting when I'm on the X30, but did they suddenly start running S98s in the reverse direction during peak hours or was this just a fluke?? I checked the schedule on line and they don't show any S98s running at that time going towards St. George. :confused:

 

Here's my guess,and its only a guess. A jackass that I work with probably running lates last trip or late to make next trip throws a 98 signage up. Don't say no right away. There's drivers that do stupid shit like this all the time hence the large presence of checkers and supervision on the line. I will inquire and let you all know the outcome. I doubt highly any changes to lines being made being our new pick starts Sunday and there was no change made to lines. B)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Here's my guess,and its only a guess. A jackass that I work with probably running lates last trip or late to make next trip throws a 98 signage up. Don't say no right away. There's drivers that do stupid shit like this all the time hence the large presence of checkers and supervision on the line. I will inquire and let you all know the outcome. I doubt highly any changes to lines being made being our new pick starts Sunday and there was no change made to lines. B)

 

lol... Many thanks! :cool:

[FamousNYLover]

Maybe, b/O could be late.

 

When bus is very late, my B/O friend on M4 made reverse LTD ordered by dispatcher in some section in order to catch up with his/her schedule.

[qjtransitmaster]

Dumb Question? Besides the (S93) and (S89)which both should be expanded to run all day weekdays and for a few hours on Saturdays IMO, are any of the St George's Terminal that run in both directions during the rush hours?

 

If not routes like the (S44) Limited,(S84) aka S74 Limited, and (S48) Limited should all run in both directions the entire rush hour.:confused:

 

I saw many ppl heading to NJ so the S93 if expanded to run all day should extend to bayonne non-stop via rte 440.

[FamousNYLover]

I think (S89) bus should be 7-day service and become full time instead of rush hour.

 

Coordinate to meet both Hudson Bergen Lightrail trains at 34th St-Bayonne.

[checkmatechamp13]

I saw many ppl heading to NJ so the S93 if expanded to run all day should extend to bayonne non-stop via rte 440.

 

I don't think that there is a real demand for Brooklyn-Bayonne service.

 

Plus, I have other plans for the S93: Extend it along the SIE service road (providing an east-west route between Victory Blvd and Forest Avenue), and then send it up to Arlington via South Avenue.

 

I think (S89) bus should be 7-day service and become full time instead of rush hour.

 

Coordinate to meet both Hudson Bergen Lightrail trains at 34th St-Bayonne.

 

Limited-stop service isn't warranted along Richmond Avenue off-peak. The S89 is (relatively) lightly used outside of the heart of rush hour, so off-peak service should be minimal.

 

I'll post what I feel should be the actual schedule later on, when I'm more focused. The only thing I'll say now is that there should be 15 minute reverse-peak service between the SI Mall and Bayonne, and all mall routes should operate along the back of Ring Road to keep them together.

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't think that there is a real demand for Brooklyn-Bayonne service.

 

Plus, I have other plans for the S93: Extend it along the SIE service road (providing an east-west route between Victory Blvd and Forest Avenue), and then send it up to Arlington via South Avenue.

 

 

 

Limited-stop service isn't warranted along Richmond Avenue off-peak. The S89 is (relatively) lightly used outside of the heart of rush hour, so off-peak service should be minimal.

 

I'll post what I feel should be the actual schedule later on, when I'm more focused. The only thing I'll say now is that there should be 15 minute reverse-peak service between the SI Mall and Bayonne, and all mall routes should operate along the back of Ring Road to keep them together.

 

BS don't underestimate ridership to bayonne!!!! there was a huge mass of cars heading to rte 440 from victory blvd bound for NJ. S93 is an SI rte in addition to brooklyn its a side effect. S93 belongs on rte440. For SIE to forest from victory at richmond let S55/56 do it those rtes can serve forest ave en rte to elizbeth,NJ transfer for south ave service. The rtes get renamed S89J S93J and S55/56J ur argument just got killed.

[checkmatechamp13]

BS don't underestimate ridership to bayonne!!!! there was a huge mass of cars heading to rte 440 from victory blvd bound for NJ. S93 is an SI rte in addition to brooklyn its a side effect. S93 belongs on rte440. For SIE to forest from victory at richmond let S55/56 do it those rtes can serve forest ave en rte to elizbeth,NJ transfer for south ave service. The rtes get renamed S89J S93J and S55/56J ur argument just got killed.

 

First of all, the traffic in that area was due to the fact that the area is a bottleneck. If you actually look on the expressway itself, you'll see that there aren't that many cars.

 

And do you actually see the crowds on the S89s themselves? Aside from the heart of rush hour (and you especially see it in the PM rush) there are very few riders. Just because you see a bunch of cars doesn't mean that there is pent-up demand for service. Look at Flatbush Avenue: The B41 runs very frequently, and yet there are still traffic jams on it.

 

And you're not seeing what I'm saying about South Avenue: The main purpose of the S93 extension is to serve Goethals Road North/Fahy Avenue. The point of going to Arlington would be to boost the ridership, since I don't think the extension could survive just ending at South Avenue/Goethals Road North.

[checkmatechamp13]

As promised, here is my proposed S89 schedule:

 

NOTES:

The Bayonne terminal would be moved to the 8th Street HBLR station.

The SI terminal would be moved to Main Street/Amboy Road (the S59 would be cut back to Eltingville except for trippers)

* Means that it starts/ends at Eltingville. For the other trips Tottenville service starts roughly 17-19 minutes prior to departure from Eltingville

 

Leaving Eltingville

05:25*

05:40*

05:55*

06:07

06:21

06:37

06:49

07:08

07:20

07:40

07:55

08:06

08:23

08:44

15:55

16:16

16:30

16:47

17:02

17:20

17:33

17:57

18:10

18:28

 

Leaving 8th Street

06:22

06:36

06:51

07:16

07:38

07:56

08:20

08:45

09:15

09:45

16:05

16:28

16:51

17:10

17:23

17:35

17:51

18:11

18:33

18:45

19:04*

19:28*

 

 

The S82 is a route that would be a branch of the S89 (it runs less frequently, but runs full-time). It starts/ends at the Pleasant Plains Park-and-Ride. Running time is approximately 45-50 minutes (it shounds realistic, doesn't it?) Limited stops for this route are as follows:

8th Street HBLR station

Morningstar Road/Walker Street

Richmond Avenue/Forest Avenue

South Avenue/Goethals Road North

1000 South Avenue

South Avenue/Hilton Hotel

South Avenue/Teleport Drive

South Avenue/Travis Avenue

West Shore Plaza

Service Road/Victory Blvd

Service Road/Arthur Kill Road

Pleasant Plains Park-and-Ride

 

Unidirectional stops (most because of the layout of the streets) would be at:

Fahy Avenue/Brad Lane (Northbound, assuming the people living by there don't object to the loss of parking)

Lamberts Lane/May Avenue (Northbound)

Richmond Avenue/Lamberts Lane (Northbound)

Richmond Avenue/Goethals Road North (Southbound)

Goethals Road North/Lambert Street (Southbound)

 

Leaving Pleasant Plains:

04:30

04:59

05:27

05:49

06:11

06:28

06:56

07:24

07:45

08:15

08:38

09:17

10:17

11:17

12:17

13:17

14:13

14:40

14:59

15:12

15:40

15:58

16:27

16:45

17:00

17:22

17:35

17:49

18:11

18:27

18:49

19:19

19:49

20:18

20:45

21:15

21:45

22:15

22:45

 

Leaving 8th Street:

05:41

06:10

06:36

07:16

07:38

07:55

08:20

08:40

09:14

09:35

10:35

11:30

12:30

13:30

14:30

15:30

15:48

16:20

16:45

17:10

17:23

17:40

17:57

18:19

18:45

18:54

19:17

19:40

20:20

20:40

21:10

21:40

22:10

22:40

23:10

23:40

 

Weekend service (on the S82 only) would run as follows:

From Pleasant Plains:

05:15

then every 60 minutes until 22:15

 

From 8th Street

06:20

then every 60 minutes until 23:20

 

Of course, this would require funding, so to cover for it, the number of trippers down Richmond Avenue would be reduced. In addition, the S59 would run every 20 minutes during rush hour as opposed to every 15 minutes, and the S44 would be reduced to every 15 minutes as opposed to every 10 minutes during rush hour.

 

I know the S82 schedule looks a little bit lean, but buses would be added if more passengers are attracted (or are shifted from the S89)

[checkmatechamp13]

I forgot to mention that part of the reason why there are gaps in service is because the new 8th Street station was (foolishly) built with one track. Had it been built with 2 tracks, it would have more capacity as a terminal (and it would make any future extension to SI easier).

 

By the way, I forgot to add a 17:43 S89 bus from Eltingville.

[qjtransitmaster]

As promised, here is my proposed S89 schedule:

 

NOTES:

The Bayonne terminal would be moved to the 8th Street HBLR station.

The SI terminal would be moved to Main Street/Amboy Road (the S59 would be cut back to Eltingville except for trippers)

* Means that it starts/ends at Eltingville. For the other trips Tottenville service starts roughly 17-19 minutes prior to departure from Eltingville

 

Leaving Eltingville

05:25*

05:40*

05:55*

06:07

06:21

06:37

06:49

07:08

07:20

07:40

07:55

08:06

08:23

08:44

15:55

16:16

16:30

16:47

17:02

17:20

17:33

17:57

18:10

18:28

 

Leaving 8th Street

06:22

06:36

06:51

07:16

07:38

07:56

08:20

08:45

09:15

09:45

16:05

16:28

16:51

17:10

17:23

17:35

17:51

18:11

18:33

18:45

19:04*

19:28*

 

 

The S82 is a route that would be a branch of the S89 (it runs less frequently, but runs full-time). It starts/ends at the Pleasant Plains Park-and-Ride. Running time is approximately 45-50 minutes (it shounds realistic, doesn't it?) Limited stops for this route are as follows:

8th Street HBLR station

Morningstar Road/Walker Street

Richmond Avenue/Forest Avenue

South Avenue/Goethals Road North

1000 South Avenue

South Avenue/Hilton Hotel

South Avenue/Teleport Drive

South Avenue/Travis Avenue

West Shore Plaza

Service Road/Victory Blvd

Service Road/Arthur Kill Road

Pleasant Plains Park-and-Ride

 

Unidirectional stops (most because of the layout of the streets) would be at:

Fahy Avenue/Brad Lane (Northbound, assuming the people living by there don't object to the loss of parking)

Lamberts Lane/May Avenue (Northbound)

Richmond Avenue/Lamberts Lane (Northbound)

Richmond Avenue/Goethals Road North (Southbound)

Goethals Road North/Lambert Street (Southbound)

 

Leaving Pleasant Plains:

04:30

04:59

05:27

05:49

06:11

06:28

06:56

07:24

07:45

08:15

08:38

09:17

10:17

11:17

12:17

13:17

14:13

14:40

14:59

15:12

15:40

15:58

16:27

16:45

17:00

17:22

17:35

17:49

18:11

18:27

18:49

19:19

19:49

20:18

20:45

21:15

21:45

22:15

22:45

 

Leaving 8th Street:

05:41

06:10

06:36

07:16

07:38

07:55

08:20

08:40

09:14

09:35

10:35

11:30

12:30

13:30

14:30

15:30

15:48

16:20

16:45

17:10

17:23

17:40

17:57

18:19

18:45

18:54

19:17

19:40

20:20

20:40

21:10

21:40

22:10

22:40

23:10

23:40

 

Weekend service (on the S82 only) would run as follows:

From Pleasant Plains:

05:15

then every 60 minutes until 22:15

 

From 8th Street

06:20

then every 60 minutes until 23:20

 

Of course, this would require funding, so to cover for it, the number of trippers down Richmond Avenue would be reduced. In addition, the S59 would run every 20 minutes during rush hour as opposed to every 15 minutes, and the S44 would be reduced to every 15 minutes as opposed to every 10 minutes during rush hour.

 

I know the S82 schedule looks a little bit lean, but buses would be added if more passengers are attracted (or are shifted from the S89)

:tup::tup: OK this is BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have S82 run to perth amboy to further improve connections with NJtransit and give SI ppl more access to NJ. That along with S55/56 extension to elizbeth,NJ and we will have a mass of winning routes. The S55/56 will serve the newark airport as well as north street which is currently underserved by NJT this improves connectivity with NJT's transit network and would in change improve ridership on S55/56 and several connecting NJT routes. Both services NJT and MTA would gain new riders as a result of improved conectivity. Plus together with my NJT plan extreme travellers may eventually become transit riders. Improving transit access and connectivity not just in staten island but throughout the NYC metro area.

[checkmatechamp13]

:tup::tup: OK this is BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have S82 run to perth amboy to further improve connections with NJtransit and give SI ppl more access to NJ. That along with S55/56 extension to elizbeth,NJ and we will have a mass of winning routes. The S55/56 will serve the newark airport as well as north street which is currently underserved by NJT this improves connectivity with NJT's transit network and would in change improve ridership on S55/56 and several connecting NJT routes. Both services NJT and MTA would gain new riders as a result of improved conectivity. Plus together with my NJT plan extreme travellers may eventually become transit riders. Improving transit access and connectivity not just in staten island but throughout the NYC metro area.

 

I wouldn't send the S55/S56 all the way to Newark. A simple S56 extension to Perth Amboy would be sufficient.

 

I would serve Newark by taking out a small amount of S48 service and creating S98 service (maybe start it off on 30 minute midday headways) from St. George to Newark.

[qjtransitmaster]

I wouldn't send the S55/S56 all the way to Newark. A simple S56 extension to Perth Amboy would be sufficient.

 

I would serve Newark by taking out a small amount of S48 service and creating S98 service (maybe start it off on 30 minute midday headways) from St. George to Newark.

 

newark is too far I said newark airport via elizbeth. S48 is too slow to extend S55 needs the ridership more However S56 and that S82 or urs can extend to perth amboy or even deeper into middlesex (if possible)

[SIR North Shore]

While I disagree with reducing rush hour S44 and S59 service checkmate, any plan that would expand SI local & limited bus service to New Jersey is a good one! :cool:

 

 

Also, throughout the years I've definitely seen B/Os change the bus sign to limited at random times during the day but usually around school hours. I caught a S94 at 2:30pm a couple years ago and every now and then the S40 will be so packed that the bus will become a S90. The major problem with operators doing this is that the next bus won't be for another 15-20 minutes at least because that limited run wasn't in the schedule. I've said this plenty of times before but if the MTA offered Staten Island more limited service as a pilot on the busier routes, it would be more than successful and they'll probably have to add even more limited service over the years.