Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.

July schedules


Amtrak7

Recommended Posts

These include the proposed changes to the M50, x22, x37/38, S57.

 

M50-The weekend span of service is too large and the service to infrequent.

 

x27/x28/x37/x38-Oh my god!!! Why are the x27 and x37 two separate panels? There are now FOUR service patterns for this route- express, Midtown local, Downtown local, 23 St local!

 

S57-Even with the new reduced span, it starts too early.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 152
  • Created
  • Last Reply
url=http://www.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/xpress/x027cur.pdf]x27/x28/x37/x38[/url]-Oh my god!!! Why are the x27 and x37 two separate panels? There are now FOUR service patterns for this route- express, Midtown local, Downtown local, 23 St local!

 

What are you complaining about??? It's pretty simple. The early and run X27s do the entire route. The X27s to 23rd st make perfect sense because there is no need to run them all the way to Midtown because of the X37 is running during those times. They split it up this way to create less confusion and clutter. Makes perfect sense actually. This is similar to the say the BM3 and the BM3 Super Express. You'll have BM3s doing the entire route, but when Super Expresses run, you'll have other BM3s doing the Downtown Loop only. The Super Express BM3s skip Downtown and go to Midtown via the FDR, then via 23rd st and via Madison and over to 57th st.

 

In short it keeps the runs short and keeps down cost, something that I'm sure you would clearly support. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are you complaining about??? It's pretty simple. The early and run X27s do the entire route. The X27s to 23rd st make perfect sense because there is no need to run them all the way to Midtown because of the X37 is running during those times. They split it up this way to create less confusion and clutter. Makes perfect sense actually. This is similar to the say the BM3 and the BM3 Super Express. You'll have BM3s doing the entire route, but when Super Expresses run, you'll have other BM3s doing the Downtown Loop only. The Super Express BM3s skip Downtown and go to Midtown via the FDR, then via 23rd st and via Madison and over to 57th st.

 

In short it keeps the runs short and keeps down cost, something that I'm sure you would clearly support. :P

 

Turning the x27 at 23rd Street makes sense, but why are there even more Downtown short turns? I'm sure not all those Church/Thomas turns are full.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are you complaining about??? It's pretty simple. The early and run X27s do the entire route. The X27s to 23rd st make perfect sense because there is no need to run them all the way to Midtown because of the X37 is running during those times. They split it up this way to create less confusion and clutter. Makes perfect sense actually. This is similar to the say the BM3 and the BM3 Super Express. You'll have BM3s doing the entire route, but when Super Expresses run, you'll have other BM3s doing the Downtown Loop only. The Super Express BM3s skip Downtown and go to Midtown via the FDR, then via 23rd st and via Madison and over to 57th st.

 

In short it keeps the runs short and keeps down cost, something that I'm sure you would clearly support. :P

 

I liked the old format better, where the X27/X37 and X28/X38 were on the same panel. That way, somebody going to Midtown easily knows that they have to use the X37 during rush hour.

 

And I don't see why they need an "A", "B", and "C" for the route. If an S46 terminates at Forest Avenue, they don't call it "S46A", they just call it "S46". It should be the same for express buses (even before June 2010, the X27 short-turns to 23rd Street were still labeled as X27s)

 

Turning the x27 at 23rd Street makes sense, but why are there even more Downtown short turns? I'm sure not all those Church/Thomas turns are full.

 

Agreed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I don't see why they need an "A", "B", and "C" for the route.

 

Those letters (A, B, C, D) are not suffixes for the destination signs.

 

According to the public timetable booklet, they're just footnotes referring to the maps at the end of the booklet. The letter "A" next to a trip means that you should look at map "A" to see what that trip does in Manhattan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to take pics of the X22 at Outerbridge so badly, but it would basically be impossible to backtrack to the ferry.

 

It's amazing that they built a park-and-ride with absolutely no pedestrian access. In order to get out, it looks like you have to walk along the expressway ramps.

 

Those letters (A, B, C, D) are not suffixes for the destination signs.

 

According to the public timetable booklet, they're just footnotes referring to the maps at the end of the booklet. The letter "A" next to a trip means that you should look at map "A" to see what that trip does in Manhattan.

 

I know, but why not have just an X27/X28 map and put the part time terminals in grey? If the timetable shows that the trip doesn't go north of, say 23rd Street, that means that it makes all X27 stops until 23rd Street.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those letters (A, B, C, D) are not suffixes for the destination signs.

 

According to the public timetable booklet, they're just footnotes referring to the maps at the end of the booklet. The letter "A" next to a trip means that you should look at map "A" to see what that trip does in Manhattan.

 

Well, the x28B is coded on the sign and I believe the A/C is coded too.

 

As for the park and ride, there is absolutely no pedestrian access at all. What looks like an exit in satellite view is actually gated if you look at street view.

 

I want to take pics of the X22 at Outerbridge so badly, but it would basically be impossible to backtrack to the ferry.

 

The only way to do that would be to somehow get the driver to let you on one of the 3 Tottenvillle-bound buses that stop there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to take pics of the X22 at Outerbridge so badly, but it would basically be impossible to backtrack to the ferry.

 

It's amazing that they built a park-and-ride with absolutely no pedestrian access. In order to get out, it looks like you have to walk along the expressway ramps.

 

 

 

I know, but why not have just an X27/X28 map and put the part time terminals in grey?

 

Actually no, you can access the Outerbridge on foot. I did it yesterday. And you certainly don't need to walk along the expressway ramps either.

 

You can take the SIR to the Pleasant Plains station, or the S55 (weekdays) to Amboy/Bloomingdale Roads. There's a street called Pleasant Plains Avenue which begins at Bloomingdale and Amboy Roads. Walk along that street until it ends and you'll see a mini ramp which will lead to the Outerbridge.

 

The walk is 15 minutes...obviously I use a faster mode of transportation so if you're up for it, good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually no, you can access the Outerbridge on foot. I did it yesterday. And you certainly don't need to walk along the expressway ramps either.

 

You can take the SIR to the Pleasant Plains station, or the S55 (weekdays) to Amboy/Bloomingdale Roads. There's a street called Pleasant Plains Avenue which begins at Bloomingdale and Amboy Roads. Walk along that street until it ends and you'll see a mini ramp which will lead to the Outerbridge.

 

The walk is 15 minutes...obviously I use a faster mode of transportation so if you're up for it, good luck.

 

On Google Street View, that ramp is shown gated off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked the old format better, where the X27/X37 and X28/X38 were on the same panel. That way, somebody going to Midtown easily knows that they have to use the X37 during rush hour.

 

And I don't see why they need an "A", "B", and "C" for the route. If an S46 terminates at Forest Avenue, they don't call it "S46A", they just call it "S46". It should be the same for express buses (even before June 2010, the X27 short-turns to 23rd Street were still labeled as X27s)

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

Turning the x27 at 23rd Street makes sense, but why are there even more Downtown short turns? I'm sure not all those Church/Thomas turns are full.

 

I certainly understand why and it was a very smart move. They did it this way because of the loading situation. Back in the old days of the X27/X37 and X28/X38 I believe they would just start all X27s and X28s at 23rd street. The problem is many of the buses would be SRO by the time they reached Downtown meaning that the folks further Downtown were always forced to stand or wait for several express buses to pass by before they could get on one, let along get a seat. The added short turn X27s and X28s that start and finish by Thomas St. were put into place to balance the crowding and also to increase reliability and reduce waste. It is very similar to how the X17 was truncated. And believe it or not the short turned Church/Thomas St express buses will be well used. I know because I see the buses with my own eyes. You (Amtrak) on the other hand are basing your conclusion solely on numbers as usual, which only tell part of the situation with those two express bus lines. Perhaps you should go out and use the lines and then you'll see why this makes sense.

 

Both lines, especially the X27 remind me of the X1 during the rush hour in terms of the importance of buses being spaced properly to handle the crowds that quickly gather after an express bus has picked up. The one thing that Ulmer Park appears to try to do is to make sure that buses are spaced accordingly to alleviate overcrowding where possible, esp. at 23rd and Bway when they had the X27/X37 X28/X38 set up.

 

Well, the x28B is coded on the sign and I believe the A/C is coded too.

 

Yes, all of them were coded on the X27 and the X28, but I don't know if those codes will remain on the actual signage this coming Tuesday, but they may. I'll see on Tuesday. :cool:

 

In any event I really don't see the big deal. As a daily express bus rider it makes things clearer for me. It's no more complicated than the X10 when I take it and in fact is less complicated since the X10s signage does not change coming back towards Port Richmond when some buses take West St and then make no stops until Slosson Avenue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On Google Street View, that ramp is shown gated off.

 

on google street view, upon zooming in on the roads along the SI ferry bus ramp, you see:

 

2007 Google

 

.....which would explain your findings, in comparison to what LRG's informing you, regarding the here & now in that general area....

 

 

 

That's why I don't rely on Google's street view anymore.... worst I seen was a portion dated as far back as 2005....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I certainly understand why and it was a very smart move. They did it this way because of the loading situation. Back in the old days of the X27/X37 and X28/X38 I believe they would just start all X27s and X28s at 23rd street. The problem is many of the buses would be SRO by the time they reached Downtown meaning that the folks further Downtown were always forced to stand or wait for several express buses to pass by before they could get on one, let along get a seat. The added short turn X27s and X28s that start and finish by Thomas St. were put into place to balance the crowding and also to increase reliability and reduce waste. It is very similar to how the X17 was truncated. And believe it or not the short turned Church/Thomas St express buses will be well used. I know because I see the buses with my own eyes. You (Amtrak) on the other hand are basing your conclusion solely on numbers as usual, which only tell part of the situation with those two express bus lines. Perhaps you should go out and use the lines and then you'll see why this makes sense.

 

Both lines, especially the X27 remind me of the X1 during the rush hour in terms of the importance of buses being spaced properly to handle the crowds that quickly gather after an express bus has picked up. The one thing that Ulmer Park appears to try to do is to make sure that buses are spaced accordingly to alleviate overcrowding where possible, esp. at 23rd and Bway when they had the X27/X37 X28/X38 set up.

 

 

 

Yes, all of them were coded on the X27 and the X28, but I don't know if those codes will remain on the actual signage this coming Tuesday, but they may. I'll see on Tuesday. :cool:

 

In any event I really don't see the big deal. As a daily express bus rider it makes things clearer for me. It's no more complicated than the X10 when I take it and in fact is less complicated since the X10s signage does not change coming back towards Port Richmond when some buses take West St and then make no stops until Slosson Avenue.

 

The X10 is a different story because those aren't simple short turns: The X10 is taking an entirely new route via West Street, which is harder (though not impossible) to determine from the schedule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The X10 is a different story because those aren't simple short turns: The X10 is taking an entirely new route via West Street, which is harder (though not impossible) to determine from the schedule.

 

Not really. It's a variant of the route just like the X27/X28 has, but the X27 and X28 have far more variants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Worth Street and 23rd Street runs are simply short-turns. The B46 has a bunch of those (Eastern Parkway, DeKalb Avenue northbound and Avenue H southbound) and it doesn't have suffixes after them.

 

Plus, it has the limited with its short-turns to boot.

 

By the way, does anybody think the limited-stop section should be extended further south?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Worth Street and 23rd Street runs are simply short-turns. The B46 has a bunch of those (Eastern Parkway, DeKalb Avenue northbound and Avenue H southbound) and it doesn't have suffixes after them.

 

Plus, it has the limited with its short-turns to boot.

 

By the way, does anybody think the limited-stop section should be extended further south?

 

The B46 LTD needs to make limited stops the whole route, maybe not south of Av N.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Worth Street and 23rd Street runs are simply short-turns. The B46 has a bunch of those (Eastern Parkway, DeKalb Avenue northbound and Avenue H southbound) and it doesn't have suffixes after them.

 

Plus, it has the limited with its short-turns to boot.

 

I still don't see what you and Amtrak are complaining about. These adjustments are making those lines more effective in terms of serving the passengers and they are making things more cost effective. Please don't bring up the fact that it costs more to do this because they are only providing the service that they had prior to the cuts, plus they eliminated all weekend service on both the X27 and X28, so I really don't see what you two are complaining about.

 

Neither one of you use either express bus line, so of course it makes no sense to you. It makes perfect sense to me and I'm sure it will make perfect sense to the express bus riders of those lines because the main complaint had been buses being too crowded with the variants after the cuts and this should work perfectly.

 

You have to understand where the ridership comes from to understand the variants. Most of the X37s and X38s are crowded by the time they reach the 40s on 5th, so once they get to 23rd street they are pretty crowded. Having the X27s and X28s start where they do works perfectly in that those folks can opt to take the buses starting at 23rd street if those X37s and X38s are too crowded, though that would mean that they would have to ride a bit longer. This also allows the (MTA) to see where exactly the ridership is coming from, but quite frankly all three variants have strong ridership so much so that I can certainly understand the variants that were created, much like what was done with the X17, with the X17A, X17C and X17J. All three of those variants serve different needs and are well used.

 

The 23rd st X27s and X28s are needed to serve 23rd st, the following stop after that there on Park Ave South and then the real big stop there at Union Square. As you continue towards Downtown they steadily pick up passengers, but much like their X37/X38 counterparts, once they reach down by Worth St. the lines get longer and those last two stops in particular get pretty big loads, so these variants work very well to address that. They can certainly adjust service a lot easier this way too.

 

For two people that constantly b*tch and moan about waste on express buses I would've thought you would've been in favour of this, as opposed to the stupid variants they had going after the cuts, which were just a total waste in terms of who it served as well as cost. Aside from that all express bus lines are reviewed every three months to determine where more service is needed or needs to be cut, so you really have nothing to complain about when it comes to these two lines. And there is no point in comparing a local bus line to an express bus line when they serve two very different types of clientele.

 

As I said before they will be making adjustments where needed, but they are not going to eliminate service outright for express bus service unless it is completely warranted, especially since they are very hesitant to resurrect service once they kill it off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still don't see what you and Amtrak are complaining about. These adjustments are making those lines more effective in terms of serving the passengers and they are making things more cost effective. Please don't bring up the fact that it costs more to do this because they are only providing the service that they had prior to the cuts, plus they eliminated all weekend service on both the X27 and X28, so I really don't see what you two are complaining about.

 

Neither one of you use either express bus line, so of course it makes no sense to you. It makes perfect sense to me and I'm sure it will make perfect sense to the express bus riders of those lines because the main complaint had been buses being too crowded with the variants after the cuts and this should work perfectly.

 

You have to understand where the ridership comes from to understand the variants. Most of the X37s and X38s are crowded by the time they reach the 40s on 5th, so once they get to 23rd street they are pretty crowded. Having the X27s and X28s start where they do works perfectly in that those folks can opt to take the buses starting at 23rd street if those X37s and X38s are too crowded, though that would mean that they would have to ride a bit longer. This also allows the (MTA) to see where exactly the ridership is coming from, but quite frankly all three variants have strong ridership so much so that I can certainly understand the variants that were created, much like what was done with the X17, with the X17A, X17C and X17J. All three of those variants serve different needs and are well used.

 

The 23rd st X27s and X28s are needed to serve 23rd st, the following stop after that there on Park Ave South and then the real big stop there at Union Square. As you continue towards Downtown they steadily pick up passengers, but much like their X37/X38 counterparts, once they reach down by Worth St. the lines get longer and those last two stops in particular get pretty big loads, so these variants work very well to address that. They can certainly adjust service a lot easier this way too.

 

For two people that constantly b*tch and moan about waste on express buses I would've thought you would've been in favour of this, as opposed to the stupid variants they had going after the cuts, which were just a total waste in terms of who it served as well as cost. Aside from that all express bus lines are reviewed every three months to determine where more service is needed or needs to be cut, so you really have nothing to complain about when it comes to these two lines. And there is no point in comparing a local bus line to an express bus line when they serve two very different types of clientele.

 

As I said before they will be making adjustments where needed, but they are not going to eliminate service outright for express bus service unless it is completely warranted, especially since they are very hesitant to resurrect service once they kill it off.

 

What are you talking about? :confused:

 

We're not complaining that they restored the X37/X38, we're just complaining about the way they labeled the variants. I was just using the B46 as an example of a route where the short-turns down't have a seperate designation.

 

If you want me to use an express route as an example, look at the X1 and tell me if you see any designation before the 23rd Street short-turns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are you talking about? :confused:

 

We're not complaining that they restored the X37/X38, we're just complaining about the way they labeled the variants.

 

And I just explained why they did it that way and why it makes perfect sense. Seems like you two are just never satisfied... Actually Amtrak did complain about the short turns at Thomas St, so it's not just about the variants and how they're labeled. I put his quote below...

 

Turning the x27 at 23rd Street makes sense, but why are there even more Downtown short turns? I'm sure not all those Church/Thomas turns are full.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I just explained why they did it that way and why it makes perfect sense. Seems like you two are just never satisfied... Actually Amtrak did complain about the short turns at Thomas St, so it's not just about the variants and how they're labeled. I put his quote below...

 

Now that I look at it, I looks like it was a similar number of buses as before: Just a couple of 23rd Street short-turns cut back to Worth Street and a couple of extra buses in total (most likely using the savings from cutting them back to Worth Street).

 

But I still don't see the need for the different designations. All it does is confuse people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that I look at it, I looks like it was a similar number of buses as before: Just a couple of 23rd Street short-turns cut back to Worth Street and a couple of extra buses in total (most likely using the savings from cutting them back to Worth Street).

 

But I still don't see the need for the different designations. All it does is confuse people.

 

Well I already explained the purpose for it and what the (MTA) is looking to examine with it, so I'm not going to bother to repeat myself about it. If you don't understand it then explain why the X17 is split up the way it is.

 

As far as the service goes, I said that earlier also. As I said they needed to cut back some buses to Thomas St. to better balance out the overcrowding that occurred Downtown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I already explained the purpose for it and what the (MTA) is looking to examine with it, so I'm not going to bother to repeat myself about it. If you don't understand it then explain why the X17 is split up the way it is.

 

As far as the service goes, I said that earlier also. As I said they needed to cut back some buses to Thomas St. to better balance out the overcrowding that occurred Downtown.

 

So explain to me why the X1 isn't split up into short-turns and full-length routes. And don't tell me that the X2-X9 are different variants: I just want to know why the X1 short-turns aren't labeled "X1A" on the map.

 

The X17 is a completely different story. The X17J is nothing like the X17A (And I don't just mean that the X17A terminates in Annadale). The X17J's service area in Manhattan is entirely different from the X17A's service area, and is only slightly similar to the X17C's service area. The X27/X28 short-turns serve the same exact area that the full-length X27/X28 do.

 

I know why the X27/X28 short-turns are there: It costs the same amount of money, and it is less important to have express service within Manhattan (it is easier to make a quick transfer in Manhattan than to take the subway all the way from Brooklyn). I wasn't disputing that: Amtrak was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So explain to me why the X1 isn't split up into short-turns and full-length routes. And don't tell me that the X2-X9 are different variants: I just want to know why the X1 short-turns aren't labeled "X1A" on the map.

 

The X17 is a completely different story. The X17J is nothing like the X17A (And I don't just mean that the X17A terminates in Annadale). The X17J's service area in Manhattan is entirely different from the X17A's service area, and is only slightly similar to the X17C's service area. The X27/X28 short-turns serve the same exact area that the full-length X27/X28 do.

 

I know why the X27/X28 short-turns are there: It costs the same amount of money, and it is less important to have express service within Manhattan (it is easier to make a quick transfer in Manhattan than to take the subway all the way from Brooklyn). I wasn't disputing that: Amtrak was.

 

 

Funny you say you weren't disputing it when you thanked him on that post where he was complaining about the short runs to Thomas St... :)

 

Regarding your other question, it's very simple... Those X1s terminating at 23rd street are not serving a certain market of riders in the way that the X27 and X28 are. They did that with the X1 to push riders to other lines this way that could see the true needs on each line. They don't want the X1 becoming "popular" hence no variation differences. The idea is to balance the ridership on the variants already established, so folks who really need Midtown will use the X7 and X9 accordingly and so forth. The same thing exists with the X12/X42 set up. They want people to say "Ugh X1 23RD ST"?? I'll have to use the X7 or X9 then because they know that people were flocking to the X1 because it ran too frequently. You should be jumping up and down because it allows them to cut waste and cut service easier than before. Of course you still have folks flocking to the X1, but that's exactly why I think they added that X2 in the morning. Cheaper to run an X2 probably than to add more X1s and this way they can see if those people flocking to the X1s from say 09:00 onwards when most of the variants stop running are truly X1 riders or if they are X2 riders, since the X2s go to the East Side and skip Downtown completely via the FDR Drive.

 

When folks complained about the overcrowding on the X27 and X28, the (MTA) had to have analyzed loading patterns and instead of just having Midtown service and Downtown service, they realized that the X27s and X28 served different bases in terms of riders. It is not important to analyze where the buses terminate as much it is important to understand what these three lines do. They serve three different markets: The Midtown folks from 23rd to 57th, the folks from 23rd to around Worth and then the financial folks from Worth to Battery Pl.

 

The reason I mentioned the X17 is because while the X17A, X17C and X17J terminate in different places they relate to the X27 and X28 in that there is enough ridership that you can split the line up into 3 segments basically and that is the point. Look at how many runs you have on the X37 alone. You have strong ridership on the X37s and X38s by themselves, enough for them to have their own variant. Notice that the X27 "B" and "C" variants are basically equal in the amount of runs that each variant is given, which demonstrates right there what they finally realized.

 

After the riders made a stink about the overcrowded buses Downtown, they had to re-examine that whole X27/X28 situation Downtown. They realized that there is strong usage Downtown as well and that the 23rd st X27s and X28s weren't cutting it in terms of dealing with the overcrowding situation. For once the (MTA) got this right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.