Ways to improve the M15 SBS

[FamousNYLover]

I think it not going to work, especially people rushing to catch either SBS don't pay attention to detail or pay attention.

How about on SBS bus shelter, put SBS introduction and relocate both machine inside bus shelter similar to Bx12 SBS.

I think Local and SBS needs GPS tracking and have neighborhood stores or hospital to put MTA Bus Time Screen similar to business along B63 route does.

When I took M34 yesterday, B/O told me not so many people knows about MTA Bus Time.

[qjtransitmaster]

Sounds like what you needed was the X25.

 

ya mean the slow bus no one uses right thats funny

[King Of RedBirds]

2 Things

 

1 Change the "Every Five Min" To Every 2 Min when I take it on a Weekday and Miss it I have to wait 10 min.

 

2 Get those Retarded Tour Buses out of the Bus lane, those lanes were made for M15 SELECT BUS SERVICE not Coach USA and Those Blue buses.

[FamousNYLover]

Don't forget, even (MTA)/(NYCT) Bus MCI Coach Bus parked on bus lane.

[Cait Sith]

When you get your slip from the coin machine, ask the bus driver for a transfer.

 

 

Theres one very unpopular Bloomberg initiative that would solve the congestion problem.....

 

Ahh, I havent paid with coins for +SBS+.

 

Lmao I know, I was hoping I'd get a rather funny reaction to that. Just doing that would choke the city's major roadways even more.

 

Express buses are faster than the subway. However, the M15 SBS is not a real express bus. Any bus that doesn't use a highway will be slower than the subway.

 

Not if you are stuck in traffic, then you'd be matching the time with the Subway. What now?

 

ya mean the slow bus no one uses right thats funny

 

For once, I agree.

 

2 Things

 

1 Change the "Every Five Min" To Every 2 Min when I take it on a Weekday and Miss it I have to wait 10 min.

 

2 Get those Retarded Tour Buses out of the Bus lane, those lanes were made for M15 SELECT BUS SERVICE not Coach USA and Those Blue buses.

 

I'd rather keep it every five mins over every two because I rather not see 5-6 buses coming into the stop at one time and then leaves a huge service gap in-between.

[trainfan22]

Express buses are faster than the subway. However, the M15 SBS is not a real express bus. Any bus that doesn't use a highway will be slower than the subway.

 

The BM1, 2, 3 and 4 is not faster than the (:P/(Q) train. The express bus takes like a hour and change to go from Midtown to Flatbush (Mind you this is during rush hour when it skips downtown) wheres the subway gets you there in half an hour. The last time I took the express bus home it took a hour and an half to get from 57th to my stop along Ocean Ave. When the BMs do both midtown and downtown is not even close. Outside of SI and Co op City, I highly doubt anybody rides the express bus for speed...

 

Even with SI that Gothles Bridge can be a horror it is self.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The BM1, 2, 3 and 4 is not faster than the (:P/(Q) train. The express bus takes like a hour and change to go from Midtown to Flatbush (Mind you this is during rush hour when it skips downtown) wheres the subway gets you there in half an hour. The last time I took the express bus home it took a hour and an half to get from 57th to my stop along Ocean Ave. When the BMs do both midtown and downtown is not even close. Outside of SI and Co op City, I highly doubt anybody rides the express bus for speed...

 

Even with SI that Gothles Bridge can be a horror it is self.....

 

I beg to differ. I use the BM1 and BM3 and they can be faster than the subway. They certainly are faster on Saturdays. I beat the train by a good 15-20 minutes. :cool:

[trainfan22]

I beg to differ. I use the BM1 and BM3 and they can be faster than the subway. They certainly are faster on Saturdays. I beat the train by a good 15-20 minutes. :cool:

 

Don't you get on the BM the last stop it makes in Mantthan? I'm talking about from Midtown, even then the bus still gets caught in traffic on CI Ave and courtillyou rd. But if there is no traffic, then it possible to beat the subway as it would be a two seat ride with the . The wins every time from midtown, even the timetables has the faster than the BMs 3/4...

 

http://mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/tqcur.pdf

 

http://mta.info/busco/schedules/bm003cur.pdf

 

http://mta.info/busco/schedules/bm004cur.pdf

[qjtransitmaster]

Don't you get on the BM the last stop it makes in Mantthan? I'm talking about from Midtown, even then the bus still gets caught in traffic on CI Ave and courtillyou rd. But if there is no traffic, then it possible to beat the subway as it would be a two seat ride with the . The wins every time from midtown, even the timetables has the faster than the BMs 3/4...

 

http://mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/tqcur.pdf

 

http://mta.info/busco/schedules/bm003cur.pdf

 

http://mta.info/busco/schedules/bm004cur.pdf

 

once express B train service is restored you can say bye bye to the BM4!!!! and BM3 may get reduced badly however the only justification for weekend service on those is cause the subway f**ks up on weekends

[FamousNYLover]

Even with Brighton Beach express restored, Senior Citizen and disable who can't climb up non-ADA Accessible Station will still take BM1-BM4.

 

From my experience on 5:30pm QM24 3rd Av departure with my LGA B/O friend, some riders prefer express bus than waiting for subway to come.

Some people would prefer taking express bus than getting on crowded subway line.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Don't you get on the BM the last stop it makes in Mantthan? I'm talking about from Midtown, even then the bus still gets caught in traffic on CI Ave and courtillyou rd. But if there is no traffic, then it possible to beat the subway as it would be a two seat ride with the . The wins every time from midtown, even the timetables has the faster than the BMs 3/4...

 

http://mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/tqcur.pdf

 

http://mta.info/busco/schedules/bm003cur.pdf

 

http://mta.info/busco/schedules/bm004cur.pdf

 

Sometimes I do and sometimes I get on at the first stop or at 5th & 48th, 5th & 23rd and Park Ave South. During the week it can be a bit slow, but that is only because of traffic. On Saturday it is certainly faster than the subway. In my case if I were to use the Downtown I would have to transfer from that slow @ss train to the . Between waiting for the and schlepping along Downtown and then making the connection and then walking from Sheepshead Bay Rd, the express bus wins by a mile and even during the week the commute for me would be about the same because the subway is a good 10-15 minute walk for me getting to it and walking from it.

[Cait Sith]

Ok, how the hell did this turn into a discussion about Express Buses? Why does every topic as of late go from one thing to Express Buses?

[aemoreira81]

Even with Brighton Beach express restored, Senior Citizen and disable who can't climb up non-ADA Accessible Station will still take BM1-BM4.

 

From my experience on 5:30pm QM24 3rd Av departure with my LGA B/O friend, some riders prefer express bus than waiting for subway to come.

Some people would prefer taking express bus than getting on crowded subway line.

 

Isn't Kings Highway getting ADA accessibility?

[LRG]

Ok, how the hell did this turn into a discussion about Express Buses? Why does every topic as of late go from one thing to Express Buses?

 

Express buses are VERY serious business!!!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ok, how the hell did this turn into a discussion about Express Buses? Why does every topic as of late go from one thing to Express Buses?

 

In this case I think it's a good comparison because the argument has been made by others that express buses are slow compared to the subway and here we have a service like the M15 SBS that IMO is being marketed as something that is supposed to be parallel to the subway. To be honest with you I was really expecting the M15 SBS to run like an express bus in terms of speed/quickness. Even with the whole pay before boarding and low floor set up I still found it pretty slow, which is ironic when you think about it. It still felt very much like a "typical" local bus ride in terms of the speed.

 

After thinking about it, there are few reasons that come to mind:

 

-Express bus riders particularly during the week tend to be the same folks give or take and perhaps we have a certain mentality that regular bus riders don't have. What I mean is even with the whole pay before you board it seems as if local bus riders find some way to slow things down. I observed that on the M15 SBS. It's almost as if some folks are determined to take their sweet @ss time no matter how quick they try to make things.

 

-Express bus riders on the other hand tend to step more livelier because they are paying a premium to get to and from point A to point B as quickly as possible. Meanwhile local bus riders want express service but they don't necessarily portray the same mentality. I'm also wondering if the driver's mentality is different as well. For example, are M15 SBS buses expected to hold very closely to the schedule or is there any leadway with that seeing how frequent they run on the M15?? Express buses at least on Staten Island are sometimes as early as 10 minutes. B/Os tend to not wait as much unless they know that they may miss some regulars.

 

-Another advantage that express buses have over SBS is that even though both services only make select stops, express buses can let out passengers just about anywhere. SBS buses don't have that luxury, plus the buses are longer thus meaning more thought and time is needed to make the stops, as the B/O has to pull the bus into the stop fully and cannot simply just stop and let folks off.

 

-I also noticed on the M15 that those buses can have automated stops, so they should have all stops automated, this way the B/O can focus more on driving and less on doing other things like announcing the stops.

 

-Finally, I'm also wondering if the M15 and BX12 have signal priority or is that something that is still in the works?

 

I'll add some other comparisons later.

[mark1447]

As ive said before. Extend the M15 +SBS to 207th Street / Broadway (Via Harlem River Drive). This will allow a nice transfer Between the BX12+SBS and M15+SBS.

 

Yeah its long, but so what? So is the M5.. Plus it ill make a nice express run along the HRD.

 

Express buses are faster than the subway. However, the M15 SBS is not a real express bus. Any bus that doesn't use a highway will be slower than the subway.

 

Faster then the Subway? No way.. Faster then Local Bus? WAY! Yeah some routes but not all! Traffic on the street? Yeah the Subway will pwn the Express bus route.

[Cait Sith]

In this case I think it's a good comparison because the argument has been made by others that express buses are slow compared to the subway and here we have a service like the M15 SBS that IMO is being marketed as something that is supposed to be parallel to the subway. To be honest with you I was really expecting the M15 SBS to run like an express bus in terms of speed/quickness. Even with the whole pay before boarding and low floor set up I still found it pretty slow, which is ironic when you think about it. It still felt very much like a "typical" local bus ride in terms of the speed.

 

After thinking about it, there are few reasons that come to mind:

 

-Express bus riders particularly during the week tend to be the same folks give or take and perhaps we have a certain mentality that regular bus riders don't have. What I mean is even with the whole pay before you board it seems as if local bus riders find some way to slow things down. I observed that on the M15 SBS. It's almost as if some folks are determined to take their sweet @ss time no matter how quick they try to make things.

 

-Express bus riders on the other hand tend to step more livelier because they are paying a premium to get to and from point A to point B as quickly as possible. Meanwhile local bus riders want express service but they don't necessarily portray the same mentality. I'm also wondering if the driver's mentality is different as well. For example, are M15 SBS buses expected to hold very closely to the schedule or is there any leadway with that seeing how frequent they run on the M15?? Express buses at least on Staten Island are sometimes as early as 10 minutes. B/Os tend to not wait as much unless they know that they may miss some regulars.

 

-Another advantage that express buses have over SBS is that even though both services only make select stops, express buses can let out passengers just about anywhere. SBS buses don't have that luxury, plus the buses are longer thus meaning more thought and time is needed to make the stops, as the B/O has to pull the bus into the stop fully and cannot simply just stop and let folks off.

 

-I also noticed on the M15 that those buses can have automated stops, so they should have all stops automated, this way the B/O can focus more on driving and less on doing other things like announcing the stops.

 

-Finally, I'm also wondering if the M15 and BX12 have signal priority or is that something that is still in the works?

 

I'll add some other comparisons later.

 

Only one problem with your comparison, the M15 SBS doesnt go outside of Manhattan, express buses do.

 

As ive said before. Extend the M15 +SBS to 207th Street / Broadway (Via Harlem River Drive). This will allow a nice transfer Between the BX12+SBS and M15+SBS.

 

Would be nice, but where would you get the extra buses for those runs? 126 only has a handful of buses for the locals and 95% of the LFS Articulated fleet is SBS ready. Plus the route already has a lot of problems getting to stops on time and dealing with traffic, sending it up there would make it 10x worse

 

The M5 in theory is not that long, why? Because the route flies up and down Riverside Drive and its only choking points is really in Midtown.

[qjtransitmaster]

Isn't Kings Highway getting ADA accessibility?

 

yup and when the express stations get it there will be no point in the BM3/4 outside rush hour they would become useless once express service on B is restored look there are not enough elderly riders who can't take subway alone to justify BM4 weekend service or even off peak service for that matter.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Only one problem with your comparison, the M15 SBS doesnt go outside of Manhattan, express buses do.

 

Yeah I know, but I was just doing a comparison for the hell of it.

[checkmatechamp13]

In this case I think it's a good comparison because the argument has been made by others that express buses are slow compared to the subway and here we have a service like the M15 SBS that IMO is being marketed as something that is supposed to be parallel to the subway. To be honest with you I was really expecting the M15 SBS to run like an express bus in terms of speed/quickness. Even with the whole pay before boarding and low floor set up I still found it pretty slow, which is ironic when you think about it. It still felt very much like a "typical" local bus ride in terms of the speed.

 

After thinking about it, there are few reasons that come to mind:

 

-Express bus riders particularly during the week tend to be the same folks give or take and perhaps we have a certain mentality that regular bus riders don't have. What I mean is even with the whole pay before you board it seems as if local bus riders find some way to slow things down. I observed that on the M15 SBS. It's almost as if some folks are determined to take their sweet @ss time no matter how quick they try to make things.

 

-Express bus riders on the other hand tend to step more livelier because they are paying a premium to get to and from point A to point B as quickly as possible. Meanwhile local bus riders want express service but they don't necessarily portray the same mentality. I'm also wondering if the driver's mentality is different as well. For example, are M15 SBS buses expected to hold very closely to the schedule or is there any leadway with that seeing how frequent they run on the M15?? Express buses at least on Staten Island are sometimes as early as 10 minutes. B/Os tend to not wait as much unless they know that they may miss some regulars.

 

-Another advantage that express buses have over SBS is that even though both services only make select stops, express buses can let out passengers just about anywhere. SBS buses don't have that luxury, plus the buses are longer thus meaning more thought and time is needed to make the stops, as the B/O has to pull the bus into the stop fully and cannot simply just stop and let folks off.

 

-I also noticed on the M15 that those buses can have automated stops, so they should have all stops automated, this way the B/O can focus more on driving and less on doing other things like announcing the stops.

 

-Finally, I'm also wondering if the M15 and BX12 have signal priority or is that something that is still in the works?

 

I'll add some other comparisons later.

 

I would expect that +SBS+ drivers are given some leeway in the schedule (hence why it says every 5 minutes). When you're dealing with a route running every 15 minutes or more, people tend to time themselves for a particular bus. However, since the M15 is frequent, people just show up and hope a bus will arrive shortly.

 

What's important isn't that the drivers stick precisely to a schedule: It's that the headways are fairly even so that there aren't crowding and bunching issues. On the really frequent express bus routes in SI (I see it on the X17 every morning while I wait for a bus to school), you notice that the buses come a few minutes late or early, and often bunch up a bit, but it usually doesn't make a big difference.

 

Like I said, this is Manhattan, so you can't really expect them to follow a precise schedule, even with bus lanes.

 

The thing about people taking their time has to do more with Manhattan bus service in general: People generally don't ride for long distances, so speed isn't that important.

 

By the way, regarding your comment about the BM3 being faster than the subway, that's only because of the walk from the subway to your neighborhood. If the B4 was kept, there would be more justification to eliminate the BM3 (but of course, since the B4 is NYCT and the BM3 is MTA Bus, the MTA would rather keep the BM3 regardless of its lower ridership and farebox recovery ratio, even though it would be more beneficial to keep the B4)

 

By the way, sorry for any typos in there. I'm using a school computer with less pronounced keys on the keyboard (you really have to tap down).

 

yup and when the express stations get it there will be no point in the BM3/4 outside rush hour they would become useless once express service on B is restored look there are not enough elderly riders who can't take subway alone to justify BM4 weekend service or even off peak service for that matter.

 

Both routes had riders before the construction project. Of course, once it ends, the MTA would have an excuse to reduce service on the BM3/BM4, but it's not like there would be absolutely no riders.

 

The BM4 should have Saturday service eliminated regardless of whether the construction project is going on. The BM3 can stay (it would also give BM4 riders the option of taking the B31 to the BM3, which is reasonable considering that the BM4 itself had low ridership)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

By the way, regarding your comment about the BM3 being faster than the subway, that's only because of the walk from the subway to your neighborhood. If the B4 was kept, there would be more justification to eliminate the BM3 (but of course, since the B4 is NYCT and the BM3 is MTA Bus, the MTA would rather keep the BM3 regardless of its lower ridership and farebox recovery ratio.

 

By the way, sorry for any typos in there. I'm using a school computer with less pronounced keys on the keyboard (you really have to tap down).

 

 

 

Both routes had riders before the construction project. Of course, once it ends, the MTA would have an excuse to reduce service on the BM3/BM4, but it's not like there would be absolutely no riders.

 

The BM4 should have Saturday service eliminated regardless of whether the construction project is going on. The BM3 can stay (it would also give BM4 riders the option of taking the B31 to the BM3, which is reasonable considering that the BM4 itself had low ridership)

 

Uh, actually it's not just because of the walk. I also mentioned the transfers I have to make with the to the . That right there wastes a good 25 minutes between the waiting for the trains and all of the other nonsense. As far as the BM3 goes, the BM3 will still have riders as you said simply because the folks that use it are generally not close to the subway and have a decent walk to the local bus.

 

Also I don't see what the B4 would do to justify eliminating the BM3. Sure it connects to the subway, but the BM3 also saves time on transfers, thus making the commute for folks in Sheepshead Bay a bit quicker. Let's not forget that Sheepshead Bay, Gerritsen Beach and other areas of Southern Brooklyn share quite a bit w/Staten Island in that they are far out and take a good 45 minutes to an hour to commute to at a minimum. This is why all express bus service that Southern Brooklyn currently has should be kept unless the ridership is so terrible that there is no choice but to eliminate it. That is also why I have been adamant about fighting and pressing local representatives (i.e. Senator Golden) in those districts to stay on the to keep them. I haven't decided to write Senator Kruger yet since he may be out anyway with his current political situation up in the clouds.

 

As far as the BM4 goes the has pretty much cut service to the point to where any more cuts especially on Saturday would mean no more BM4 at all. The line is important as a back up since there is only hourly service on the BM1 - BM4 on Saturdays and thus if someone were to miss a BM1 or BM3, they still have the BM4 which can take them so far and they can transfer to a local bus from there. If you notice the spacing between the BM1, BM3 and BM4 is pretty consistent on Saturday and this was clearly done on purpose to help express bus commuters in case they miss their regular bus or it breaks down or something.

 

In addition to that even with the low ridership, the BM4 should be kept on Saturday unless there is no way to keep it. As I have said before if that is the case eventually it will be eliminated as the is evaluating every express bus line every three months and adjusting schedules accordingly.

[checkmatechamp13]

Uh, actually it's not just because of the walk. I also mentioned the transfers I have to make with the to the . That right there wastes a good 25 minutes between the waiting for the trains and all of the other nonsense. As far as the BM3 goes, the BM3 will still have riders as you said simply because the folks that use it are generally not close to the subway and have a decent walk to the local bus.

 

Also I don't see what the B4 would do to justify eliminating the BM3. Sure it connects to the subway, but the BM3 also saves time on transfers, thus making the commute for folks in Sheepshead Bay a bit quicker. Let's not forget that Sheepshead Bay, Gerritsen Beach and other areas of Southern Brooklyn share quite a bit w/Staten Island in that they are far out and take a good 45 minutes to an hour to commute to at a minimum. This is why all express bus service that Southern Brooklyn currently has should be kept unless the ridership is so terrible that there is no choice but to eliminate it. That is also why I have been adamant about fighting and pressing local representatives (i.e. Senator Golden) in those districts to stay on the to keep them. I haven't decided to write Senator Kruger yet since he may be out anyway with his current political situation up in the clouds.

 

As far as the BM4 goes the has pretty much cut service to the point to where any more cuts especially on Saturday would mean no more BM4 at all. The line is important as a back up since there is only hourly service on the BM1 - BM4 on Saturdays and thus if someone were to miss a BM1 or BM3, they still have the BM4 which can take them so far and they can transfer to a local bus from there. If you notice the spacing between the BM1, BM3 and BM4 is pretty consistent on Saturday and this was clearly done on purpose to help express bus commuters in case they miss their regular bus or it breaks down or something.

 

In addition to that even with the low ridership, the BM4 should be kept on Saturday unless there is no way to keep it. As I have said before if that is the case eventually it will be eliminated as the is evaluating every express bus line every three months and adjusting schedules accordingly.

 

From Midtown, the can beat the BM3 to Sheepshead Bay, since it is a one-seat ride.

 

And the BM4 is a route where the ridership is terrible enough to be eliminated on Saturdays. The spacing can be fixed: Just align the BM1/BM3 to operate 30 minutes apart and you accomplish the same thing (not to mention that, at 20-30 minute headways, if you miss a bus, you're pretty much better off going to the subway anyway)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

From Midtown, the can beat the BM3 to Sheepshead Bay, since it is a one-seat ride.

 

And the BM4 is a route where the ridership is terrible enough to be eliminated on Saturdays. The spacing can be fixed: Just align the BM1/BM3 to operate 30 minutes apart and you accomplish the same thing (not to mention that, at 20-30 minute headways, if you miss a bus, you're pretty much better off going to the subway anyway)

 

Yes and no. That again depends on where you are in Midtown. The BM3 does not serve the same areas of Midtown that the does throughout its run and in order to use the to mimic the BM3 you would more than likely require another connection, so that's a rather flawed argument.

[BrooklynBus]

By the way, if I bought a ticket at South Ferry and wanted to go to Harlem and transfer to another bus, I would still be able to make the transfer for free, even though my receipt would've technically expired, correct?

 

Also, I forgot from the last (and first) time I used the M15 +SBS+, but do the receipts have the place that you bought them stamped on them?

 

So if your receipt expired because you were on the bus for over an hour and an inspector gets on, you could get a fine? That's crazy. What are you supposed to do in that case?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So if your receipt expired because you were on the bus for over an hour and an inspector gets on, you could get a fine? That's crazy. What are you supposed to do in that case?

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. Seems as if no one knows because I hinted at that in the thread when mentioning things that I noticed during my M15 SBS trip last Friday.