What happened to the Artics in the other 3 boroughs?

[qjtransitmaster]

Keep in mind that articulated buses are much longer than your typical bus and require much more space to maneuver therefore they cannot fit on all routes..there are some routes with turns that a standard-length bus can barely handle, much less an articulated bus.

 

true they are on a route by route basis.

[LRG]

I actually think that is why they are best used at rush hour on only the worst sardine cans not moderate/high ridership rtes

 

Not even that, but during periods of high usage, they should be placed on select runs during certain times of the day. Some routes are as busy on weekends as they are during weekday rush hours. The issue is the bus would stay in service until the driver took it out of service when his run was finished, but not all drivers deadhead but are relieved by another driver instead, meaning the bus would stay in service longer.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Staten Island is getting them as well for the S79

 

 

 

Flatbush won't be getting any artics. Well, they aren't supposed to at least. The B44 SBS is slated to run out of Grand Avenue

 

 

 

Not true at all sir!

 

Artics can go as fast as MCI's, or any other bus for that matter, and there are Suburban Artics with express seating out there already in service with other cities.

 

I'm sure that's the case but I can't imagine an MCI being beaten by a Nova articulated bus. I'm referring specifically to the ones we use. Most of the MCIs here blow by most of the cars on the road. So are the speed limits for the MCIs and the regular local buses the same for the ? I was under the impression that that wasn't the case simply because most of the local buses (at least the older ones) accelerate so slow and seem like they're barely making it on the bridges and such. :eek:

 

 

For example take an Orion or even a Nova or a NG running on the S53 or the S79 on the Verrazano. We always blow by those buses on the bridge and leave them in the dust. :cool:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Which has been my point from the start. No surprise there. People that don't see this are either full of it or they think the picture is rosy and the MTA 'won't dare cut service'.

 

*would've hit the thanks button if it was showing

 

I'm not that naïve. Of course there were be some reduction of service, but I can't imagine them reducing service to the bone where artics are crushloaded beyond belief, at least not based on my observations on the routes that have them in the city.

[checkmatechamp13]

The SI route with the highest ridership is the S79 and it doesn't come close to the ridership that would justify artics.

 

Actually it is the S53 that has the highest ridership. And it isn't just the ridership that matters: It is the crowding. A route can have moderate ridership and still suffer from overcrowding because of low turnover.

 

Let's take a route you're familiar with: The Q5 and Q85. The ridership is comparable to the S53 and S79, but I'm sure that when the bus gets near Jamaica Center, they must be pretty crowded.

 

Like I said, I don't want artics to eventually give the MTA an excuse to eventually cut back on service. Middays a typical bus can take forever to show up, this would be made worse when it becomes waiting for an artic, especially if I just miss the artic at a bus stop. [ex: 30 min turns to 45min].

 

The artics that goes to FB [that are not for the B44 SBS] have to be the 3-door types. As I said already, you have people that blocks the entrance, by exiting there than going to the back, causing delays and potential farebeating. So the 2-door ones are not an option.

 

As a busy depot, you need buses capable of running on any line and flexibility is essential. So it's not like, "oh let's put an artic at this depot because it has a few busy routes".

 

I can't speak about how it works out in the Bronx since I don't ride there, but I feel that things are just fine as is with the RTS and NGs.

 

Most of the time when you're waiting 30 minutes, I would think it would be because a bus driver called in sick and they couldn't fill the run. If a route ran every 30 minutes, chances are it doesn't have the ridership/crowding to justify artics.

 

So in those instances, the 30 minute wait time would remain the same, since off-peak, there shouldn't be a problem with a lack of buses (it would be a lack of drivers)

 

He does make a semi-valid point. When the artics first came there was controversy about how the cut service on select routes; one of them ironically being the M23. Having said that, the today is different than it was in 1996, so more likely than not (and by that I mean hopefully) we wont see the kinds of shenanigans that we did nearly 15 years ago. Either way, some routes need artics real bad.

 

Part of the reason the (M23) is so bad is because of the crappy schedule; every 7-10 minutes during rush hour is horrible IMO for a crosstown route. A bus lane would also help move buses more smoothly across and decrease a lot of the delays that afflict the line.

 

Bus lanes would be great. They would not only speed up the M23, but also the express buses from Brooklyn and Queens that travel from 5th Avenue to the FDR Drive (which should increase ridership on those routes enough to make them more cost-efficient and justify service increases, which should please Via Garibaldi )

 

Uh actually I do care because I do use the local buses more often than you think. Don't forget that I was brought up in Brooklyn, so I'm quite familiar with most of the routes there. If you read my post I said I would support them assuming that there weren't any significant decreases in the frequencies. I mean who would support decreased frequencies aside from cheapos like checkmate and Amtrak? LOL I support anything that will make passengers' experiences traveling on public transportation better.

 

Actually, I don't recall hearing Amtrak advocate for service reductions like I have (to reduce the fare and/or get much needed service additions in other areas). The only time I remember was when there were the LI Bus cuts, and he was saying which routes would have the least impact if they were eliminated (they would leave people stranded, but he acknowledged that the system was only going to receive a certain amount of funding, so he wanted it allocated in the best possible way)

 

I'm sure that, unless the MTA used a 2:3 ratio (which would keep the overcrowding the same) artics would keep the buses less crowded, which would make for a more pleasant ride and hopefully attract more riders.

 

I'm not that naïve. Of course there were be some reduction of service, but I can't imagine them reducing service to the bone where artics are crushloaded beyond belief, at least not based on my observations on the routes that have them in the city.

 

The routes that receive the most crowding generally run the most frequently. Therefore, any frequency changes would be small, say from 4 minutes to 5 minutes during rush hour, and 8 minutes to 10 minutes off-peak. The average rider wouldn't feel much of a difference.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Actually, I don't recall hearing Amtrak advocate for service reductions like I have. The only time I remember was when there were the LI Bus cuts, and he was saying which routes would have the least impact if they were eliminated (they would leave people stranded, but he acknowledged that the system was only going to receive a certain amount of funding, so he wanted it allocated in the best possible way)

 

I certainly have. I have the memory of an elephant.

 

He was calling for cutting back on quite a few SI local bus lines like the S57 and he has pushed that idea on several occasions. The S57 stands out quite a bit just because of the axing of weekend service on the S66 and S54 and then the axing of the S67 outright. When you think about all of the cuts that have been made in 2010, it is insane to push for more cuts immediately the way you and Amtrak have been. :mad: :tdown: It would be wise to see how ridership patterns function for at least another year and then if cuts are needed, see how those cuts could be made without further destroying the transportation options for the passengers.

[checkmatechamp13]

I certainly have. I have the memory of an elephant.

 

He was calling for cutting back on quite a few SI local bus lines like the S57 and he has pushed that idea on several occasions. The S57 stands out quite a bit just because of the axing of weekend service on the S66 and S54 and then the axing of the S67 outright. When you think about all of the cuts that have been made in 2010, it is insane to push for more cuts immediately the way you and Amtrak have been. :mad: :tdown: It would be wise to see how ridership patterns function for at least another year and then if cuts are needed, see how those cuts could be made without further destroying the transportation options for the passengers.

 

He wasn't saying to eliminate the S57 outright: Just to reduce the span a bit on the weekends because of low/no ridership.

 

OK. If it makes you happy, the MTA can wait a year and then eliminate the last couple of runs.

[Fresh Pond]

...It's unheard of to have local and limited/+SBS operations out of different depots but I don't see how that would pose much of a problem.

 

Then I guess you haven't heard of the B38 then lol...during the day when the limited is running, the local ones (the ones to Metro Av) are at Grand Ave, whereas the limited ones (the ones to Catalpa Av) are at Fresh Pond

 

You just got served

 

I'm sure that's the case but I can't imagine an MCI being beaten by a Nova articulated bus. I'm referring specifically to the ones we use. Most of the MCIs here blow by most of the cars on the road. So are the speed limits for the MCIs and the regular local buses the same for the ? I was under the impression that that wasn't the case simply because most of the local buses (at least the older ones) accelerate so slow and seem like they're barely making it on the bridges and such. :eek:

 

 

For example take an Orion or even a Nova or a NG running on the S53 or the S79 on the Verrazano. We always blow by those buses on the bridge and leave them in the dust. :cool:

 

It all depends on how the bus is governed. On your standard bus (artic & shorties) in the 95% of them are governed at 40-45 mph, while the MCIs are governed at about 50-60 mph. BUT, there are a bunch of standards that can do more than 45 (there's quite a few LFSs that can still do 50+), and there's a few MCIs that can barely get to 50

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He wasn't saying to eliminate the S57 outright: Just to reduce the span a bit on the weekends because of low/no ridership.

 

OK. If it makes you happy, the MTA can wait a year and then eliminate the last couple of runs.

 

I never said he called for the S57 to be eliminated outright. And having the wait a year and then eliminate the last couple of runs doesn't make me happy at all. All that does is prolong the agony. Service should only be eliminated if there are no other alternatives but to eliminate it.

[LRG]

Then I guess you haven't heard of the B38 then lol...during the day when the limited is running, the local ones (the ones to Metro Av) are at Grand Ave, whereas the limited ones (the ones to Catalpa Av) are at Fresh Pond

 

You just got served

 

Wow, I forgot about the B38. Damn, I just got pwned...

[Acela Express]

Keep in mind that articulated buses are much longer than your typical bus and require much more space to maneuver therefore they cannot fit on all routes..there are some routes with turns that a standard-length bus can barely handle, much less an articulated bus.

Err, hold on - from what I've heard, the artics are actually a bit easier in terms of turning due to smaller radius, hence the 'accordion'; so an artic can make any turn your standard 40 ft. bus can.

[PATCOman]

In fact, I heard artics make easier turns since it is 2 smaller "buses" making a turn.

[checkmatechamp13]

I never said he called for the S57 to be eliminated outright. And having the wait a year and then eliminate the last couple of runs doesn't make me happy at all. All that does is prolong the agony. Service should only be eliminated if there are no other alternatives but to eliminate it.

 

I thought that because you mentionedr the S67.

[checkmatechamp13]

I thought that because you mentioned the S67.

 

Sorry about that. I had to leave the room before I finished my post. What I meant to say was: I thought that you thought that he meant to eliminate service all times because you mentioned the S67.

 

Part of what happens could be that the last few runs are sort of backup options in case somebody misses another run (either that, or the reason for the later service could be because of union rules, so the MTA figures that they might as well squeeze an extra run out)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Sorry about that. I had to leave the room before I finished my post. What I meant to say was: I thought that you thought that he meant to eliminate service all times because you mentioned the S67.

 

Part of what happens could be that the last few runs are sort of backup options in case somebody misses another run (either that, or the reason for the later service could be because of union rules, so the MTA figures that they might as well squeeze an extra run out)

 

Well yeah, that would make sense. Aside from that I don't see the point of ending buses so early anyway. It's just another thing that kills routes.

[Kanarsie Guy]

I know its a little off topic but MCI are overkill for NYC that is why the MDBF is so low. MCI are really made for open road which most NYC express don't have. SI is where its the wrost only route that warrents MCI would Be the X17J which hit a lot of open road in NJ & Yonkers. Artics can be order with high seat plus hold more people then a MCI and are better suited for Stop in go Ops. Most express buses don't hit to much open highway nor do they travel on the highway long enuff for MCI. Case in point NJ transit has Interstate routes where MCI are better suited Open road one of the main reason NJT MCI aged way better and with far less problems then NYCT. Out here we have routes from Other countys that travel more then 20+ miles with NABI & Orion V CNG & MCI.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I know its a little off topic but MCI are overkill for NYC that is why the MDBF is so low. MCI are really made for open road which most NYC express don't have. SI is where its the wrost only route that warrents MCI would Be the X17J which hit a lot of open road in NJ & Yonkers. Artics can be order with high seat plus hold more people then a MCI and are better suited for Stop in go Ops. Most express buses don't hit to much open highway nor do they travel on the highway long enuff for MCI. Case in point NJ transit has Interstate routes where MCI are better suited Open road one of the main reason NJT MCI aged way better and with far less problems then NYCT. Out here we have routes from Other countys that travel more then 20+ miles with NABI & Orion V CNG & MCI.

 

LOL Okay, so are you a QJ replica?? Since when did the X17J run in Yonkers??? :confused:

[Kanarsie Guy]

LOL Okay, so are you a QJ replica?? Since when did the X17J run in Yonkers??? :confused:

 

I see your not very bright nor can u read so sad. I'm very aware from what I wrote Yonkers is a Garage & the X17J is a SI Xpress route...lol

[Forest Glen]

I know its a little off topic but MCI are overkill for NYC that is why the MDBF is so low. MCI are really made for open road which most NYC express don't have. SI is where its the wrost only route that warrents MCI would Be the X17J which hit a lot of open road in NJ & Yonkers. Artics can be order with high seat plus hold more people then a MCI and are better suited for Stop in go Ops. Most express buses don't hit to much open highway nor do they travel on the highway long enuff for MCI. Case in point NJ transit has Interstate routes where MCI are better suited Open road one of the main reason NJT MCI aged way better and with far less problems then NYCT. Out here we have routes from Other countys that travel more then 20+ miles with NABI & Orion V CNG & MCI.

 

I hate to say it but I agree. The X1 and X17 need MCI's. Orion V CNG Suburbans would suffice on the X64 and QM4.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I see your not very bright nor can u read so sad. I'm very aware from what I wrote Yonkers is a Garage & the X17J is a SI Xpress route...lol

 

 

Uh, it's "you're" not "your" which is used for referring to possessions... No, actually I think it's the reverse. You can't even spell or write properly and you expect me to understand what the hell it is that you mean??

 

This is what you wrote:

 

"SI is where its the wrost only route that warrents MCI would Be the X17J which hit a lot of open road in NJ & Yonkers."

 

Uh yeah, so like I said, since when did the X17J hit a lot of open road in Yonkers?? LOL

[Kanarsie Guy]

Uh, it's "you're" not "your" which is used for referring to possessions... No, actually I think it's the reverse. You can't even spell or write properly and you expect me to understand what the hell it is that you mean??

 

This is what you wrote:

 

"SI is where its the wrost only route that warrents MCI would Be the X17J which hit a lot of open road in NJ & Yonkers."

 

Uh yeah, so like I said, since when did the X17J hit a lot of open road in Yonkers?? LOL

 

You Got it buddy do want a cookie or something I think u don't have a life outside this forum. Your go very hard for nothing I hope u work for the MTA otherwise you have wasted your life son..

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Got u it buddy do want a cookie or something I think u don't have a life outside this forum. Your go very hard for nothing I hope u work for the MTA otherwise you have wasted your life son..

 

 

LOL... I don't want a cookie. I would much rather you write properly so that I can attempt to decipher what in the hell it is that you're trying to say and I'll give you a cookie because currently what we've got here is a failure to communicate. :eek:

[Kanarsie Guy]

Uh, it's "you're" not "your" which is used for referring to possessions... No, actually I think it's the reverse. You can't even spell or write properly and you expect me to understand what the hell it is that you mean??

 

This is what you wrote:

 

"SI is where its the wrost only route that warrents MCI would Be the X17J which hit a lot of open road in NJ & Yonkers."

 

Uh yeah, so like I said, since when did the X17J hit a lot of open road in Yonkers?? LOL

 

You Got it buddy do want a cookie or something I think u don't have a life outside this forum. Your go very hard for nothing I hope u work for the MTA otherwise you have wasting your life son..

[qjtransitmaster]

You Got it buddy do want a cookie or something I think u don't have a life outside this forum. Your go very hard for nothing I hope u work for the MTA otherwise you have wasting your life son..

 

dude just say BXM3 dammit that is the yonkers rte DONE. That is what kanarsie guy is saying via 8 he was reffering to the BXM3

[LRG]

I hate to say it but I agree. The X1 and X17 need MCI's. Orion V CNG Suburbans would suffice on the X64 and QM4.

 

...except the X64 doesn't run out of a CNG depot.

 

On another note, where the hell has this thread gone to? We have people who type run-on sentences with bad spelling and grammar and don't even know where buses go...Since when did the X17 go to YONKERS???!!!