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Can SAS Phase 1 do the job?


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I'm not complaining. I'd be happy as long as they finish what they've started right now. I was just saying how I found it odd how they left out a station at 79th Street, and then the other guy goes off saying how a short turn station at 79th between 1st and York would be good when it would just raise hell with the residents nearby. They do not want a subway station there transporting bums by the dozens. Plus a short turn terminal there would make no sense at all because that provides less service to 86th Street.

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I'm not complaining. I'd be happy as long as they finish what they've started right now. I was just saying how I found it odd how they left out a station at 79th Street, and then the other guy goes off saying how a short turn station at 79th between 1st and York would be good when it would just raise hell with the residents nearby. They do not want a subway station there transporting bums by the dozens. Plus a short turn terminal there would make no sense at all because that provides less service to 86th Street.

 

What are you [or the other person] talking about with 1st and York? Only 2nd Av is being tunneled under.

 

And who said the short turn would be only from trains heading north? It could've been built like Whitehall where trains from either direction could turn back. SO, it could even turn back trains north of the station should there be a problem on the Broadway line. Of course this is all moot because the MTA cheapened out by making all stations 2-track, 1 island platforms for the whole part of phase 1.

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I do want the entire Second Avenue Subway (Q)(T) to be completed in my lifetime. The (4)(5) & (6) are just too damn crowded.

 

There is a 99.9999999% chance you will not get what you want. Riders of those lines, like myself, will have to deal with decades more of overcrowding. Although, the crowds aren't a big issue to me. The Lex is my favorite line in the system.

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What are you [or the other person] talking about with 1st and York? Only 2nd Av is being tunneled under.

 

 

Wallyhorse was talking about having a short-turn terminal at 79th and York or 1st Avenue.

 

My question is, aren't you going to alienate potential riders by skipping major streets and having 13-17 block gaps between stations?

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@ Mysterious2train:

Oh ok. Well at this point i generally skip his posts since they are 'nonsense'.

 

As someone stated earlier, this indeed is a 'poorman's express'. THe MTA is too broke to build another set of tracks for the express and building less stations = cheaper. It sucks, but at least better 3 stations are built sooner than them dragging it out for the 4th one.

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Wallyhorse has been running his mouth with that idea for years. He has no understanding of "NO".

 

SAS is designed with a longer distance between stops as sort of a semi-express. with SBS upstairs, do they really need to build a 4th station because they don't want to walk?

 

same problem I have with Wally's stupid 79/1st station. I have to walk 1/2 a mile to the subway from my house. If they can't walk that much atleast and have no disabilty, they are just lazy bums.

 

When I wake up at 7 and have to go to the subway you might as well call it a disability because I can barely even bring myself to the nearest bus stop. :P

 

And comparing the SAS to SBS (woah I just realized the close resemblance of acronyms) is like apples to oranges, plus the SBS won't do them any good because the SBS stops are at 67th and 79th while there's only going to be one 72nd Street stop for the SAS, plus traffic can be a nightmare on 2nd Avenue during the morning rush. They'll still all file onto the M79 to Lexington Avenue and walk to 77th.

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LOL, it's like skip-stop.

 

86th St: SAS and SBS

79th St: SBS

72nd St: SAS

67th St: SBS

57th St: SBS

55th St: SAS

50th St: SBS

42nd St: SAS and SBS

 

Except that 55th St and 57th St are so close together, 55th St and 59th/60th St would fit the pattern a little better :P

 

Well, Gorgor has a point, people can just take the M66 or M79 to the (6) over the (Q) or (T)

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Wallyhorse has been running his mouth with that idea for years. He has no understanding of "NO".

 

SAS is designed with a longer distance between stops as sort of a semi-express. with SBS upstairs, do they really need to build a 4th station because they don't want to walk?

 

same problem I have with Wally's stupid 79/1st station. I have to walk 1/2 a mile to the subway from my house. If they can't walk that much atleast and have no disabilty, they are just lazy bums.

 

My first choice would be actually to have a station at 79th/2nd, with a second exit at 76th/2nd that would be the primary entrance/exit to/from the SAS for students from Wagner Junior High School just west of where that exit would be. It would be the one and only exception to the plans otherwise for the SAS, and would take pressure before and after school off 77th/Lex.

 

You forget that by 79th Street (and actually 78th if you count the buildings that go east of York Avenue all the way to the FDR Drive), you have people living on East End Avenue, and those who do even then will still have a considerable walk from there to 2nd Avenue even with a station at 79th/2nd. We are talking about by far the most densely populated area in likely the entire country, and that's why adding a 79th/2nd station would a good idea even if it slows the SAS a little.

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In the late 1968's with the cost per mile of subway track approaching sky-high levels a Second AVenue subway line of more than 2 tracks would be extremely highly without any doubt expensive. We are talking 100 million per mile of track, and that was BEFORE the usual inflation sets in. So any discussion of the MTA "being cheap" in not wanting to be build express tracks is reflective of having no clue to the costs of building subway lines in a crowded city like NYC. The entire Second Avenue - Queens Super-Express project has been extremely expensive over the decades with plenty of the major amounts of money coming from the federal government. Nothing about any this is "cheap".

 

A short-turn terminal at 79th Street and First Avenue would REDUCE the amount of train traffic that could run on the Second Avenue Subway line, especially if that terminal is operated 24/7/365 as proposed. From where would the trains that service this terminal come from? The Broadway line or the lower Second Avenue line when built? In addition such a terminal would require a whole new list of studies and environmental reports, engineering reports, and needless to say it - new financing for the tunnel and station. Needless to say - but the existing carved out tunnels would have to be modified to support such a short turn terminal. All to what end? Who would be served by this terminal? How many people are we talking about?

 

Along Second Avenue in addition to the SBS-15 bus there is the regular local M-15 bus that can make the usual local bus stops as a supplement to the Second Avenue subway.

 

Just a few notes.

Mike

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I simply know the area from when I grew up there, and it's FAR more densely populated now than it was when I lived there 25 years ago.

 

The other factor is Wagner Junior High school being on 76th/2nd. A subway entrance/exit from the SAS there (as part of a 79th Street station) would be very helpful in taking pressure off the 77th/Lex (6) station.

 

It's not laziness in this case. The walk over from 79th/East End Avenue over to 77th/Lex is about three-quarters of a mile and is NOT exactly a short walk for many. I know the entire area from when I grew up there, and know how much more densely populated it is now as opposed to when I lived there and how it will only get worse with new high rises continuing to go up.

 

Those reasons are why I would add a 79th/2nd station to the SAS, which probably would be one of the most heavily used stations in the entire system while not taking too many people off the (6) at 77th/Lex.

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I believe it was more of a cost issue why there wasn't some sort of station in the high 70s. 72nd is a two-way street doesn't have any station access at all so that's why it was included. 106th is similarly so (a Phase 2 station). The biggest improvement I can see here is really expanding station access from the standard one access point for local stations to multiple access points. Adding extra stations (and access points that go with it) may just not be cost effective.

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It won't be heavly used as you think, becuase once SAS opens, the traffic flow on the lex will drop, and SAS will only rise to meet it half way.

 

here's a point to consider, you lived there decades ago, how much time have you spent there since? how do you know they even want an extra station? Hell, they're pretty dam ticked off about the construion as it is now...

 

Those complaining now I understand, but some of it is also a by-product of people being very short-sighted and not thinking long-term. The SAS will be there long after most of us are no longer here, and the benefits will be felt.

 

Most people I think realize the long-term benefits of the SAS that is desperately needed there, especially since the upper east side as noted is probably the most densely populated area in the entire country and that will only become more so over time. Those who complain now in my opinion are the most vocal who only want to look at the short term.

 

And yes, I do think a 79th Street station of one kind of another is needed, preferably on 79th/2nd with an additional exit at 76th/2nd.

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The exact line is "Alternate service will be provided to replace service to Astoria, Queens." But yeah, I'd love to see the (W) return in full. And yes, I know the (N) today essentially is the (W), but tell that to the people going to Lower Manhattan B) Meh, it's not like the return of the (W) was some impossible, mind-bending idea.

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