Can SAS Phase 1 do the job?

[checkmatechamp13]

While I feel there's no point for this thread because the service doesn't exist yet, I will agree that should it go into Brooklyn. A line via Fulton IND would be ideal and that it should run down Utica Av to give that area of Brooklyn another option other than just the B46.

 

It's either that or the extend the IRT from it's current stop down Flatbush av to KP.

 

Or do both the IRT extension and the Utica Avenue Line (though the Utica Avenue Line would be much more beneficial, as it would serve an entire swath of eastern Brooklyn with no subway service, like East Flatbush)

 

Of course, I doubt the MTA would do both.

 

Then just link it, with you everything has to be in image form. All that does is hog up other people's bandwidth. Do you even own any of those images?

 

It works for me because I'm too lazy to open the links, but I agree that he should just post the links.

[Grand Concourse]

As I said, if he did this once in a while or the stuff were his images, then I have no problem. But the thing is almost every little thing like maps, it is always posted without regard for bandwidth usage. That's my main gripe about him.

 

Exactly, if it comes down to one or the other, I'd probably would go with the extension since that's not dependent on the SAS being ready. Not sure for the Utica Av extension [i would assume being served temporarily by the ]. Mainly concerns about riders not being happy about having the running local all the way to the rockaways from Utica.

[Wallyhorse]

3rd Avenue El. had to go anyway. It was obsolete by 1950's and required a huge overhaul. Now what they did not do, is that they didn't build subway replacing it, as soon as El was gone, as planned.

 

To stay on topic though, real significant relieve on Lexington would happen if SAS would reach Bronx and go there as deep as possible (200+ sts). Won't happen.

 

I'd myself be looking to connect it with the Nassau line (as noted elsewhere), with Canal street the stop after Houston should they ever complete Phase 3. I would also be looking at extending Phase 2 across 125th street (terminating on a low elevated platform under the at Broadway-12th Avenue) since by the time that Phase is complete, Columbia University will be in the middle of a massive expansion that I think would warrant the line going across 125, including a connection to the (A)/(:P/©/(D) at St. Nicholas Avenue that would allow for the SAS to reach the Bronx and/or extreme upper Manhattan.

 

These two elements to me would provide real relief on the (4)/(5) between 125th and Atlantic-Pacific.

[Quill Depot]

These are the people that proposed it. I don't have any control on the routing they take. It seems like the other proposal shows they will use Avenue B to go down the Lower East Side. It is also mentioned on the PDF.

Do you know how skinny Ave B. is.

Phase I will help reduce crowding on the most congested corridors between 42nd and 96th Streets on the Lex Line.

 

If completed, many LES riders would now have a one seat ride to midtown and midtown west...on the SAS, thus eliminating the need for them to use Lexington Avenue trains.

 

 

From 59th St to 42nd St will be crowded. And the SAS will not eliminate the need of the Lex.

[Roadcruiser1]

The Second Avenue Subway is a 2 tracked line from 125th Street to Hanover Square. Avenue B is a 2 lane street. The Second Avenue Subway if it uses this proposed alignment will run underneath the median of the street (Basically it would be where the yellow line is) therefore it's feasible.

[SmallParkShuttle]

From 59th St to 42nd St will be crowded. And the SAS will not eliminate the need of the Lex.

 

The thing is, a good portion of the ridership from that corridor are transfers from crosstown/Queens-bound lines from the west side. And for those whose destination is the UES, at least from 100 St south between Park/3rd and the river, the new will be a very appealing option. So phase I will take some of those riders off the Lex, and any riders off the Lex is good.

 

I do also see just more new commuters from that area with the opening of that phase. Seriously, just imagine how boss that will be as a full Broadway express!

 

-SPS

[Caelestor]

Some thoughts about the current SAS plans:

 

No station between 72nd and 86th seems a little awkward (ideally there should be a subway stop every 10 blocks), but that's not too important.

 

Personally, I think the N needs to be rerouted onto the SAS for at least the first two phases. No way the Q will be able to handle the crowds, which I'm guessing will be quite substantial: Phase 1 is brilliant in that it draws riders who want direct B'way service and an easier transfer to the 6th Ave/7th Ave lines. As a side benefit, segregating the B'way express services from the locals reduces headache-inducing interlining and crazy scheduling. Of course, this may lead to service complications when/if the line is built south of 63rd ST.

 

The 125th St line should be Phase 3. Look at that empty space on the map and the congestion in Harlem, it's just begging to be built.

 

If the SAS does make it downtown, you don't need a new alignment under Water St, just connect it to the Culver or Nassau lines.

[Roadcruiser1]

The can do the job. If it can't do it completely the Lexington Avenue Line which is next door would help along with the potential . Also there isn't use to put a station between 72nd and 86th Street as the Lexington Avenue Line which is next door has a station between them. It would be redundant to put a station there, and not to mention the fact the turns and heads toward the Broadway Line from there, and I don't think a 125th Street Crosstown Line can be built due to the fault line that runs underneath.

[Tokkemon]

The can do the job. If it can't do it completely the Lexington Avenue Line which is next door would help along with the potential . Also there isn't use to put a station between 72nd and 86th Street as the Lexington Avenue Line which is next door has a station between them. It would be redundant to put a station there, and not to mention the fact the turns and heads toward the Broadway Line from there, and I don't think a 125th Street Crosstown Line can be built due to the fault line that runs underneath.

 

An avenue block and a half is hardly next door...

 

125th St Crosstown should be built, absolutely!

[Roadcruiser1]

I told you about the fault line. It's not a budgetary problem. It's a problem with the Earth underneath. Due to the fact that this small fault line releases small earthquakes over time the tunnel could be warped out of shape, or damaged. Not to mention the fact that you might be able to trigger an earthquake, because you would be kicking at a fault line. I don't see anyone building a tunnel underneath the San Andreas Fault.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Here's a link to the Article Roadcusier didn't properly credit...

 

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/

[TwoTimer]

I still think it'll just get to 125 and that's it. No kind of extension down 2Av at all, no , as its completely new construction from below 63rd. At least pieces of tunnel were being used in the first two phases.

[dman1455]

I still think it'll just get to 125 and that's it. No kind of extension down 2Av at all, no , as its completely new construction from below 63rd. At least pieces of tunnel were being used in the first two phases.

 

Yeah let the go to 125 and leave astoria alone with the only. Just add in 2-3 trains..

[Roadcruiser1]

You people are so negative. How would you alleviate crowding from the Lexington Avenue Line if you build only Phase 1 & 2 of the Second Avenue Subway?

[cotb16]

Yeah let the go to 125 and leave astoria alone with the only. Just add in 2-3 trains..

 

Nah man, I'd rather swap them. This would allow the to be a true express in Manhattan and Brooklyn, making it favorable during the summer for those heading from Midtown to Coney Island as well as taking some riders away from the and lines. In addition, this would better help tourists in alphabetical sense (as in is for Queens and is for Northern Manhattan).

[Quill Depot]

You people are so negative. How would you alleviate crowding from the Lexington Avenue Line if you build only Phase 1 & 2 of the Second Avenue Subway?

 

Use my idea!

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=449315#post449315

[Roadcruiser1]

No. It would just jam up the Sixth Avenue Line. Your idea is infeasible. If not nearly impossible to do.

[Roadcruiser1]

The will run express when the first phase of the Second Avenue Subway opens and the is sent up to 96th Street. You know why? The Astoria Line can't be handled by the alone so the or something similar will most certainly have to be brought back. This is why I often refer to the as not a dead line, but a line that has went dormant till 2016 when it would be reincarnated.

[dman1455]

You people are so negative. How would you alleviate crowding from the Lexington Avenue Line if you build only Phase 1 & 2 of the Second Avenue Subway?

 

It's called Select Bus Service... Derp!

[dman1455]

The will run express when the first phase of the Second Avenue Subway opens and the is sent up to 96th Street. You know why? The Astoria Line can't be handled by the alone so the or something similar will most certainly have to be brought back. This is why I often refer to the as not a dead line, but a line that has went dormant till 2016 when it would be reincarnated.

 

YES IT CAN! Why can't you understand that it can.

[GojiMet86]

This is why I often refer to the as not a dead line, but a line that has went dormant till 2016 when it would be reincarnated.

 

Um, don't you mean ressurection? Reincarnation is something different.

[Roadcruiser1]

I explained that the M15 SBS isn't sufficient, because the Lexington Avenue Line is still overcrowded especially during rush hours, and yeah Gojimet I did.

[dman1455]

I explained that the M15 SBS isn't sufficient, because the Lexington Avenue Line is still overcrowded especially during rush hours, and yeah Gojimet I did.

 

But look SBS can handle the load between 72nd st and South Ferry, While the can do 125-72nd.. Get out of la la land and look at will happen. "lets bring back the (W)" some say... let's not it is NOT needed. I don't see SAS being built past Phase 2. I see the going to 125 and that's it. SBS can do the rest. And if someone says " via Culver" or " Bring back the (W)" I don't see you getting a job at the MTA anytime soon with that thinking...

[Roadcruiser1]

You most certainly don't know the runs local along the Broadway Line with that mentality of yours do you? You know how many residents in Brooklyn have complained ever since that happened? You are also ignoring the residents of the Culver Line which have had asked for demands for more service to Manhattan some even begging for express service. You certainly like to ignore people don't you? This is exactly why our nation can't build anything anymore compared to other nations which are rapidly expanding their metro systems, because people have failed to dream.

[dman1455]

You most certainly don't know the runs local along the Broadway Line with that mentality of yours do you? You know how many residents in Brooklyn have complained ever since that happened? You are also ignoring the residents of the Culver Line which have had asked for demands for more service to Manhattan some even begging for express service. You certainly like to ignore people don't you? This is exactly why our nation can't build anything anymore compared to other nations which are rapidly expanding their metro systems, because people have failed to dream.

 

Yes more service on 90 second headways... you make perfect sense. I said add 2-3 extra trains. Watch the or don't come true your going to be crying in bed sucking your thumb...

You fail to think about were this money would come from. How about your savings? Derp Herp...

If we can hardly afford SAS, how can we afford anything else.