Should the "A Rockaway Pk.-Manhattan 'express' run for couple trips on summer weekends?

[MikeGerald]

So Let's see:

 

The Rockaways can be difficult places to get to, involving long rides and long waits for service.

 

So you guys wish to:

 

a) Length the wait times at the various stations from 24 to 30 minutes apart for each train, and at the same time you're calling this an improvement.

 

B) Shut down a basically well-running shuttle service, and to replace that service with all train service coming to/from Manhattan - even though there are train delays and other happenings. Such that if there are any problems with train service to from Manhattan - everybody is screwed.

 

c) Wish to extend C-train local service that basically runs well enough on its own tracks in Brooklyn (until the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station) to have to mingle again with A-train service on the elevated portions of the line. How does this help riders at the local stations in Brooklyn - none in the slightest, except for increasing the potential for train problems.

 

d) Using complicated contraptions to try to "solve" a simple problem. A-trains already stop at a station called Aqueduct, which is also the same train that takes riders to/from the Airport - there's no need to mess with that service. Adding a few A-train runs to Rockaway Park is really not that big a deal - the MTA could just do it.

 

e) Why is there the need to create complicated "solutions" to what are simple problems? This is not that difficult.

 

Mike

[Shortline Bus]

So Let's see:

 

The Rockaways can be difficult places to get to, involving long rides and long waits for service.

 

So you guys wish to:

 

a) Length the wait times at the various stations from 24 to 30 minutes apart for each train, and at the same time you're calling this an improvement.

 

B) Shut down a basically well-running shuttle service, and to replace that service with all train service coming to/from Manhattan - even though there are train delays and other happenings. Such that if there are any problems with train service to from Manhattan - everybody is screwed.

 

c) Wish to extend C-train local service that basically runs well enough on its own tracks in Brooklyn (until the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station) to have to mingle again with A-train service on the elevated portions of the line. How does this help riders at the local stations in Brooklyn - none in the slightest, except for increasing the potential for train problems.

 

d) Using complicated contraptions to try to "solve" a simple problem. A-trains already stop at a station called Aqueduct, which is also the same train that takes riders to/from the Airport - there's no need to mess with that service. Adding a few A-train runs to Rockaway Park is really not that big a deal - the MTA could just do it.

 

e) Why is there the need to create complicated "solutions" to what are simple problems? This is not that difficult.

 

 

Mike

 

 

Great comments as usual Mike. I felt that similar to the LIRR 2-3 trips to/from Belmont Park the same could be done for Rockaway Park service on summer weekends.

[Wallyhorse]

Mike:

 

This casino at Aqueduct is going to be the largest on the east coast once it's fully operational at the end of the year or beginning of '12. It's going to make for major changes in that entire area, and that, coupled with the fact that Rockaway Park after years of being a very bad area is now considered a "cool" location by the hipsters (who seem to know where the next big area will become before others do) is why I seriously look at making the changes noted above.

 

If I'm running the casino, I pay for the trackwork and platforms noted at Aqueduct for another reason aside from those already noted: If there is a situation where service to The Rockaways is curtailed due to a G.O., but with Aqueduct available for use as a terminal that could be used as such, it would pay for itself the first time that happens, since then service can continue to a terminal at Aqueduct Racetrack/Casino. That to me alone is worth doing such there if I'm running the new casino, again to be the largest on the east coast.

[Shortline Bus]

Just run the at 8-10 minute headways on summer weekends and split the service up in 3.

 

- Far Rockaway 24-30 minutes

- Lefferts Boulevard 24-30 minutes

- Rockaway Park 24-30 minutes

 

2 of the 3 branches already have 30 minute evening service so this shouldn't be an issue. Rockaway Park riders would also have a 10 car train. The Shuttle could even be suspended while the is running three branch service (saving the MTA some money).

 

 

Greatone. Actually that ok for late evening service between 11pm-2am like now. However again I don't think Rockaway Park needs all that service.

I think even just 2-3 trips in each direction, i.e 8am, 9am and 3pm(Beach 116th Bound) and 4pm, 5pm and 8pm (Manhattan Bound)is enough. With the Rock Park running 8-car trains all the time on summer weekends.

 

On Saturdays most of the day say between 9am-8pm the should be running every 6-8 minutes along the 'main branch' between Rockaway Blvd and 207th Street. On Sundays, 8-10 minute headways is ok since although at near record ridership, ridership is slightly less than Saturdays.

 

I do agree with Concourse that the NIMBY's on the Lefferts will fight back and thus doubtful they would agree to at least weekend 'local' service. They (meaning Richmond Hill/Ozone Park) would shoot it down even if that meant shorter headways.

 

Again with the casino I agree with 2-timer. Wally let see how many riders use the and then if it gets busy then add more Far Rock/Rockaway Park service.

 

Also you could rename the Lefferts branch the my choice which I don't think will get as much complaints as say replacing it with service.

[Amtrak7]

Early 2012 is CLOSE! The MTA probably has designed the service plan already, given that it's only 2 picks away. They will probably run extra short-turn trains during the summer to Howard Beach. That's assuming no trackwork on the line in Manhattan.

 

Or the MTA might just provide bus shuttle service if subway service is too pricey. But to where? Bus shuttles only work on short rides, and the nearest hubs (Jamaica, Canarsie, Bway Jct) are a bit far away.

[Shortline Bus]

Early 2012 is CLOSE! The MTA probably has designed the service plan already, given that it's only 2 picks away. They will probably run extra short-turn trains during the summer to Howard Beach. That's assuming no trackwork on the line in Manhattan.

 

Or the MTA might just provide bus shuttle service if subway service is too pricey. But to where? Bus shuttles only work on short rides, and the nearest hubs (Jamaica, Canarsie, Bway Jct) are a bit far away.

 

Why maybe (other than to Jamaica/Supthin Blvd. station for access on the LIRR)shuttle bus service? The connects I remember right with (other than the )every other NYC subway line.

[RtrainBlues]

On summer weekends, the A and S should switch places. The A should go to Rockaway Park, while the S should go to Far Rockaway. Almost the entire southbound A train gets off at Broad Channel, which continues practically empty to Far Rockaway. Meanwhile, the A is almost always a few minutes late, which forces a standing-room only crowd to wait almost 20 minutes for the next Rockaway S shuttle, turning the commute into almost 2 hours from midtown. The line with the heavy ridership (Rockaway Park *by far*) should get the full-time A train on the summer weekends. Would save at least 20 minutes on the commute.

[VIP]

Hold up...What the need to do is beef up service to the Rockaways and Extend the to Lefferts, eliminating the all together...but if these uppity residents at Lefferts really hate the idea of the to Lefferts, then Send trains to Mott Av Far Rockaway. and all trains to Lefferts Blvd at all times. and then just have the go to Rockaway pk at all times. its not that hard. this change of service will bring in more revenue. I dont want to hear this non-sense about R32''s "crapping out" going to the Rockaways... R38's, R32's & R42's did it many times before. as for the being 24/7 maybe that line needs to swap equipment with the .

[Grand Concourse]

Some people just don't get it... Just because there's only 3 stops on the map, doesn't mean sending the to Lefferts would be a good idea.

And I don't blame them, why would anyone want to give up a one seat express for a local? People that still thinks the should replace the to Lefferts must be smoking some really heavy sh-t. They will never get it... [everyone will be getting off at Rockaway Blvd and cram onto the leaving those trains empty to Euclid - it would be a major waste.]

A similar example would be if someone were to replace the with the to 179th, people would scream like hell if that were to happen.

 

Exactly, the 8-car trains are enough. at most, if there realy needs to be another train for the , then so be it. But I don't see the need for a special train all the way from 59th St.

 

If it gets so bad, then have the go to Rockaway Park and have the to go to Far Rockaway.

 

The ends at Euclid for a reason: No one wants a local train as opposed to a 1-seat express ride. The best way to avoid the split confusion is to rename one of the branches to another letter. That's all.

[lilbluefoxie]

Some people just don't get it... Just because there's only 3 stops on the map, doesn't mean sending the to Lefferts would be a good idea.

 

 

The ends at Euclid for a reason: No one wants a local train as opposed to a 1-seat express ride. The best way to avoid the split confusion is to rename one of the branches to another letter. That's all.

 

Theres no confusion, just look at the sign, the issue is they need more service to Lefferts and the Rockaways on summer weekends, have it run on a weekday mid-day frequency and reduce the headways from 20 min to 15 minutes

[VIP]

Some people just don't get it... Just because there's only 3 stops on the map, doesn't mean sending the to Lefferts would be a good idea.

 

 

The ends at Euclid for a reason: No one wants a local train as opposed to a 1-seat express ride. The best way to avoid the split confusion is to rename one of the branches to another letter. That's all.

CORRECTION; most riders will get off at Euclid, especially in the winter to wait for an express into manhattan. Why get off at Rockaway? when there is absolutely noooooo chance an is going to roll by on the Exp tracks. at Euclid Av they have that chance to wait or even catch the . from Lefferts to Euclid the is LOCAL anyway.

[Tokkemon]

What's wrong with transferring cross-platform? Are people *really* that lazy?

[Grand Concourse]

CORRECTION; most riders will get off at Euclid, especially in the winter to wait for an express into manhattan. Why get off at Rockaway? when there is absolutely noooooo chance an is going to roll by on the Exp tracks. at Euclid Av they have that chance to wait or even catch the . from Lefferts to Euclid the is LOCAL anyway.

 

there are still stations b/w Rockaway Blvd and Euclid [sure not that many], but the 'herd mentality' would be to get off at the first stop where people can transfer to the express. Thus empty trains from Rockaway Blvd to Euclid. [The sooner they board, the sooner they can get a spot on the train.]

 

Either way Lefferts riders will never approve of that 'plan'. Would you give up a 1-seat express ride if you lived along the Lefferts branch? No - I want an honest answer and not the crap about 'it would benefit the Rockaways riders'.

[VIP]

there are still stations b/w Rockaway Blvd and Euclid [sure not that many], but the 'herd mentality' would be to get off at the first stop where people can transfer to the express. Thus empty trains from Rockaway Blvd to Euclid. [The sooner they board, the sooner they can get a spot on the train.]

 

Either way Lefferts riders will never approve of that 'plan'. Would you give up a 1-seat express ride if you lived along the Lefferts branch? No - I want an honest answer and not the crap about 'it would benefit the Rockaways riders'.

 

youre right, i wouldnt want to give up a 1 seat exp ride, but how do you think Queens Riders feel when there are special trains that start the am rush at 179th-Jamaica? I would love my one seat exp ride there. or what about the manhattan bound being jam packed at Sutphin Blvd in the am rush? wheres my one seat ride there?

[Grand Concourse]

The is an express as well as the , so crowding is not comparable to my point. Read in the 30s post range where I compared sending the out to Lefferts to sending the to 179th in place of the . If people don't see the comparisons in that, then they are a lost cause.

 

Those special trains are for people that need to get to 53rd street [since the runs thru only 63rd] as well as to ease the congestion at Parsons-Archer. That service is NOT there just because people need the express service past 71st.

[VIP]

The is an express as well as the , so crowding is not comparable to my point. Read in the 30s post range where I compared sending the out to Lefferts to sending the to 179th in place of the . If people don't see the comparisons in that, then they are a lost cause.

 

Those special trains are for people that need to get to 53rd street [since the runs thru only 63rd] as well as to ease the congestion at Parsons-Archer. That service is NOT there just because people need the express service past 71st.

I see your point. you point out valid reasoning. how ever, I think if riders of the or can accept local service into manhattan, why cant riders? also an example, any resident in 67th av or Rego Pk has to deal with 2 LOCAL trains and get ferried to jackson hts Roosevelt av for Exp service. dont you think that is the same scenario as Lefferts to Euclid?

[Tokkemon]

The difference of the (A)'s express to the ©'s local is not that different. I'd say its 10 to 15 minutes different tops. This is a dramatic difference from the and on the Queens Blvd line.

[Grand Concourse]

While the time difference isn't that big, you still have trains that serves as a 'ferry' to gather up local riders to the next express stop. People are not taking the local over the express even if the time difference is minimal. It's practically hardwired into people to pick the express over the local.

 

The advantage to being a local rider [like I was when I used to ride the from 86th to 14th daily] was that I would eventually get a seat and not have to be crushed like a sardine on the express. It was nearly stress free for me.

 

I see your point. you point out valid reasoning. how ever, I think if riders of the or can accept local service into manhattan, why cant riders? also an example, any resident in 67th av or Rego Pk has to deal with 2 LOCAL trains and get ferried to jackson hts Roosevelt av for Exp service. dont you think that is the same scenario as Lefferts to Euclid?

 

Well, it's simple: the tracks are already set up where the express serves Lefferts directly. The and have only 2 tracks and that's it.

 

For the if they were to build the express tracks on the Jamaica el, then you could have express service there, but then piss off residents below for blocking out the sunlight.

 

Ideally the entire system would've been built as 3-4 track lines so you can have both local and express service. But since lines were built by different companies and times, changes would be next to impossible to do. And the only thing to do would be to transfer to another line at the next available station.

[VIP]

worst case scenario, have 3 special trains start am Rush at Lefferts as does with the by starting some of them at 179... and have 3 to 4 trains start at Euclid ave in the am rush hrs. vice versa with pm rush hrs. have "special" 2 to 3 (A)'s to Lefferts and then 2 to 3 short turn at Euclid ave.

[IRT Bronx Express]

 

For the if they were to build the express tracks on the Jamaica el, then you could have express service there, but then piss off residents below for blocking out the sunlight.

Can the Jamaica elevated handle a third track by any chance?

[VIP]

Well, it's simple: the tracks are already set up where the express serves Lefferts directly. The and have only 2 tracks and that's it.

 

For the if they were to build the express tracks on the Jamaica el, then you could have express service there, but then piss off residents below for blocking out the sunlight.

 

Ideally the entire system would've been built as 3-4 track lines so you can have both local and express service. But since lines were built by different companies and times, changes would be next to impossible to do. And the only thing to do would be to transfer to another line at the next available station.

then possibly have the go to Mott Av? b/c Euclid av doesnt cut it. also when the New casino opens up, what is there to do? beef up 3 split services?

[lilbluefoxie]

Can the Jamaica elevated handle a third track by any chance?

 

theyd have to rebuild it, which is certain to cause a lot of community opposition.

 

but as for the im still unsure of what the issue is with just keeping the split Lefferts/Rockaway service but just increasing headways slightly, im sure it would be a boon to manhattan riders looking for a quicker way up and down. The only part likely to cause a slowdown is the part where it merges with the in Brooklyn.

[Grand Concourse]

The unpopular solution would be longer trains, but at reduced frequency. With that you could squeeze in a few more trains which can add a few trains to service the main 2 branches.

 

Can the Jamaica elevated handle a third track by any chance?

I don't believe so. Not as is. They would probably need to add bracing to the structure to handle the load of an extra set of tracks with train traffic on it.

 

worst case scenario, have 3 special trains start am Rush at Lefferts as does with the by starting some of them at 179... and have 3 to 4 trains start at Euclid ave in the am rush hrs. vice versa with pm rush hrs. have "special" 2 to 3 (A)'s to Lefferts and then 2 to 3 short turn at Euclid ave.

No, sorry, I don't agree to that. As imperfect as it is now, this current set up serves people fairly by giving each branch what they want, a 1-seat express ride to manhattan. Locals will never be popular with anyone if they already have an express line option. [in the bronx, the goes to Pelham Bay as opposed to the .]

 

then possibly have the go to Mott Av? b/c Euclid av doesnt cut it. also when the New casino opens up, what is there to do? beef up 3 split services?

 

No, it would be the same problem as sending the to Lefferts, you'd piss off people wanting a 1-seat ride. The local is NOT a popular option. Also who's to say casino riders would be taking the subway down? If people are carrying money, they don't want to be on the train where they could be robbed of their money. They'd be better off taking a charter bus or drive there directly.

[Tokkemon]

For the if they were to build the express tracks on the Jamaica el, then you could have express service there, but then piss off residents below for blocking out the sunlight.

 

 

Who actually *lives* on Broadway/Jamaica Ave? Ain't it mostly commercial?

[Tokkemon]

A hypothetical but interesting problem:

 

Say the Liberty Ave line is extended further into Ozone Park. Should the still split then? If it were 10 stations instead of 3, would it be a non-issue?