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MTA makes underhanded cuts to Subway service


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How is it that ridership is steadily growing on the subway (according to the (MTA)), but yet they are making underhanded cuts like this? Who knows what other subway lines are being cut underhanded. I have certainly noticed that whenever I do use the subway now (usually the (4)(5)(6)) at Grand Central, the (6) train certainly does not come as quickly as it used to and the trains are certainly more crowded. It's also nice how they claim that in most cases, folks would only have to wait 30 seconds for another train. However, they themselves admitted that subway service is running later and later and is becoming less and less reliable and trains are not coming on time, so that would mean that this so called additional 30 seconds would really be more than 30 seconds depending on how delayed the trains were. It seems as if the (MTA) wants us to ride like we're in a third world country. They are slashing bus service underhandedly as well and forcing people to the subway and they're slashing that also.

 

I would also argue that all of these weekend disruptions (i.e. construction) do nothing but force people to other alternatives, which is probably driving. NY1 did a report talking about how many people are now avoiding the tolls and using ways that aren't tolled to avoid them and I would argue that despite the recession that traffic congestion in the city has not decreased, but has rather increased this summer.

 

I would further argue that the (MTA) is forcing people to drive more because of the deterioration of service that they're providing systemwide. Everyone wants cuts, cuts, cuts and now we're getting them, so I hope you're happy when you're standing in a sauna (aka subway station in the summer) and then forced to get onto a packed subway just because the (MTA) is too cheap to run more frequent service.

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Guest lance25
How is it that ridership is steadily growing on the subway (according to the (MTA)), but yet they are making underhanded cuts like this? Who knows what other subway lines are being cut underhanded. I have certainly noticed that whenever I do use the subway now (usually the (4)(5)(6)) at Grand Central, the (6) train certainly does not come as quickly as it used to and the trains are certainly more crowded. It's also nice how they claim that in most cases, folks would only have to wait 30 seconds for another train. However, they themselves admitted that subway service is running later and later and is becoming less and less reliable and trains are not coming on time, so that would mean that this so called additional 30 seconds would really be more than 30 seconds depending on how delayed the trains were. It seems as if the (MTA) wants us to ride like we're in a third world country. They are slashing bus service underhandedly as well and forcing people to the subway and they're slashing that also.

 

I would also argue that all of these weekend disruptions (i.e. construction) do nothing but force people to other alternatives, which is probably driving. NY1 did a report talking about how many people are now avoiding the tolls and using ways that aren't tolled to avoid them and I would argue that despite the recession that traffic congestion in the city has not decreased, but has rather increased this summer.

 

I would further argue that people are the (MTA) is forcing people to drive more because of the deteoriation of service that they're providing systemwide. Everyone wants cuts, cuts, cuts and now we're getting them, so I hope you're happy when you're standing in a sauna (aka subway station in the summer) and then forced to get onto a packed subway just because the (MTA) is too cheap to run more frequent service.

 

First off, you're really starting to piss me off, and that's something that isn't easy to do. Secondly, I'm not going to comment on the service reductions because I don't take the trains all that often (not because of cramped trains or slow service or anything like that, but simply because I'm not in the city all that often). However, concerning weekend construction, if not weekends, when would you like them to do their construction and maintenance work? Rush hours? Riders will charge into the (MTA)'s offices guns blazing if they try something like that. Late nights? I don't know about you but I'd be absolutely livid if they were doing construction outside my window at three in the morning. Middays? They already do that, but they only have five hours to do anything (really four when you consider that workers have clear the rails, make sure the power's off on a section of track before work can begin and then the inverse so trains can resume regular service for the PM rush). The same applies for late night work as well, though most overnight work is underground. There is only so much time to do this construction and maintenance to make sure the subway runs as efficiently as possible, so when people like you and NYC comptroller John Liu say that the (MTA) shouldn't use the weekends for said construction, it really irks me. Yes they are annoying, but you know what's more annoying? Having elevated structures crumble or tracks that are so bad, trains have to travel at slow speeds to ensure they don't derail.

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First off, you're really starting to piss me off, and that's something that isn't easy to do. Secondly, I'm not going to comment on the service reductions because I don't take the trains all that often (not because of cramped trains or slow service or anything like that, but simply because I'm not in the city all that often). However, concerning weekend construction, if not weekends, when would you like them to do their construction and maintenance work? Rush hours? Riders will charge into the (MTA)'s offices guns blazing if they try something like that. Late nights? I don't know about you but I'd be absolutely livid if they were doing construction outside my window at three in the morning. Middays? They already do that, but they only have five hours to do anything (really four when you consider that workers have clear the rails, make sure the power's off on a section of track before work can begin and then the inverse so trains can resume regular service for the PM rush). The same applies for late night work as well, though most overnight work is underground. There is only so much time to do this construction and maintenance to make sure the subway runs as efficiently as possible, so when people like you and NYC comptroller John Liu say that the (MTA) shouldn't use the weekends for said construction, it really irks me. Yes they are annoying, but you know what's more annoying? Having elevated structures crumble or tracks that are so bad, trains have to travel at slow speeds to ensure they don't derail.

 

LOL... That's because I'm posting about something that you don't like to hear about your beloved (MTA). Some folks hate hearing anything "negative" about the (MTA). I should just point out that it isn't me that reported the story... :P I am simply stating the reality of things and my personal observations, which I guess irks you. And as for construction, there certainly have been reports of them doing construction at odd hours of the night, disturbing the communities in which they are working in, but that's another story which I don't care about since it doesn't affect me.

 

Whether you want to accept it or not, there is no question that all of the construction that is done during the weekend deters folks from using the system not because of the construction itself, but particularly because of the way in which the (MTA) organizes things and that was the point. You could further make the argument that they could argue that reducing service during those times (which they certainly appear to be doing on other subway lines when I have used them on the weekends) would be justified, so in sum they are doing a fine job of deterring ridership.

 

What irks you is that folks like me and John Liu don't accept the status quo at the (MTA) and having worked there I can tell you that the status quo needs to be changed in many aspects. We're being so hard on the (MTA) by pointing out things that can be improved to improve the system overall right??

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Guest lance25
LOL... That's because I'm posting about something that you don't like to hear about your beloved (MTA). Some folks hate hearing anything "negative" about the (MTA). I should just point out that it isn't me that reported the story... :P I am simply stating the reality of things and my personal observations, which I guess irks you. And as for construction, there certainly have been reports of them doing construction at odd hours of the night, disturbing the communities in which they are working in, but that's another story which I don't care about since it doesn't affect me.

 

Whether you want to accept it or not, there is no question that all of the construction that is done during the weekend deters folks from using the system not because of the construction itself, but particularly because of the way in which the (MTA) organizes things and that was the point. You could further make the argument that they could argue that reducing service during those times (which they certainly appear to be doing on other subway lines when I have used them on the weekends) would be justified, so in sum they are doing a fine job of deterring ridership.

 

What irks you is that folks like me and John Liu don't accept the status quo at the (MTA) and having worked there I can tell you that the status quo needs to be changed in many aspects. We're being so hard on the (MTA) by pointing out things that can be improved to improve the system overall right??

 

Like I said before, I don't use the subway system all that often, so I really don't care either way how the (MTA) operates. It's hardly my "darling". It one thing to criticize the system for its faults (and I do not deny they have their faults), but another entirely to hold the NYC Subway to impossibly high standards. You always compare this subway system to various systems in Europe or in Japan, where the countries heavily invest in rail and other forms of mass transit. In case you haven't noticed, this country hardly gives a damn about mass transit and only gives the token amount of money to "show" that politicians actually care about the little guy. You want the subway to look like its European counterparts? How about you go to your state and federal politicians and tell them to stop penny-pinching the (MTA). Then maybe the stations won't look so damn dingy and the trains will be clean and run on some semblance of a schedule.

 

Getting back to the construction argument, I won't deny that service diversions can be a deterrent to mass transit, but there are only so many hours where they can actually get work done while not interfering with rush hour traffic. You only have a total of ten hours (maybe 12) on weekdays whereas there is a total of nearly 53 hours on weekends. They can't do a weekend's work in a five hour period; it just isn't possible. I'm sure someone with experience in this area can confirm that.

 

Again, I won't deny there are problems with the service interruptions. Like someone here stated, when part of a line is shut down, the alternative shouldn't be re-routed elsewhere in an unrelated diversion. However, sometimes it can't be helped. For example, this weekend riders traveling via the ferry between Manhattan and Staten Island will have to deal with the lack of (1) and downtown (R) trains at Whitehall St-South Ferry. That's because of two entirely different agencies doing two entirely different things. That's why the (MTA) always tells riders to check the website and the service change posters at the stations so riders can plan ahead.

 

Again, it's not a conspiracy to keep riders off the trains by making service as unpleasant as possible. It's just them trying to ensure the safety and stability of the tracks and structures. Is it better to be inconvenienced for a couple of weekends, or a couple of years?

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wow they have been doing this for years like they said in the statement. they only have 2 less trains an hour and alot of times i ride the (1) and rhere are times i dont see much people riding it. alot of times i see hole trains role by mostly empty in the day time like now mostly.

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Like I said before, I don't use the subway system all that often, so I really don't care either way how the (MTA) operates. It's hardly my "darling". It one thing to criticize the system for its faults (and I do not deny they have their faults), but another entirely to hold the NYC Subway to impossibly high standards. You always compare this subway system to various systems in Europe or in Japan, where the countries heavily invest in rail and other forms of mass transit. In case you haven't noticed, this country hardly gives a damn about mass transit and only gives the token amount of money to "show" that politicians actually care about the little guy. You want the subway to look like its European counterparts? How about you go to your state and federal politicians and tell them to stop penny-pinching the (MTA). Then maybe the stations won't look so damn dingy and the trains will be clean and run on some semblance of a schedule.

 

Getting back to the construction argument, I won't deny that service diversions can be a deterrent to mass transit, but there are only so many hours where they can actually get work done while not interfering with rush hour traffic. You only have a total of ten hours (maybe 12) on weekdays whereas there is a total of nearly 53 hours on weekends. They can't do a weekend's work in a five hour period; it just isn't possible. I'm sure someone with experience in this area can confirm that.

 

Again, I won't deny there are problems with the service interruptions. Like someone here stated, when part of a line is shut down, the alternative shouldn't be re-routed elsewhere in an unrelated diversion. However, sometimes it can't be helped. For example, this weekend riders traveling via the ferry between Manhattan and Staten Island will have to deal with the lack of (1) and downtown (R) trains at Whitehall St-South Ferry. That's because of two entirely different agencies doing two entirely different things. That's why the (MTA) always tells riders to check the website and the service change posters at the stations so riders can plan ahead.

 

Again, it's not a conspiracy to keep riders off the trains by making service as unpleasant as possible. It's just them trying to ensure the safety and stability of the tracks and structures. Is it better to be inconvenienced for a couple of weekends, or a couple of years?

 

I personally think that as far as construction goes, they need to do better in terms of keeping costs under budget. It seems as if most of their projects are usually delayed and over budget consistently. It makes it difficult to argue that they should be better funded when they constantly mismanage . That is a big different between other European systems and ours. Sure they invest a lot, but there is also accountability.

 

As for them not trying to purposely deter ridership on the weekends, if that isn't the case then they sure as hell do a good job of terrible coordination. If you're going to knock out service in one area, then make the alternatives better by giving passengers more trains to ease the commute. The shuttle buses make too many stops too. They should be making subway stops only. That's what I mean when I say that they don't do enough to make construction more bearable. They've had the (1) line shut down for years on the weekends, and the shuttles are not coordinated in any way to make it possible for folks to catch the ferry, which means after a certain time that you'll be waiting for an hour. That in turn forces folks to either endure long unnecessary connections/waits or use other alternatives like driving and so forth. In the case of Staten Islanders, they've been using the X10 more frequently as they are clearly fed up with having to make at least 2 connections or more alone to get to the ferry.

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That is exactly why Staten Island either needs a subway or a light rail connection. It would be better then now, because on a dedicated ROW you don't have cars weaving all over you like on a bus, and it would travel directly to the destination without other things getting in it's way.

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For instance, when there's a slow speed order somewhere along the line, quietly a couple rush hour trips would be dropped as the line wouldn't be able to handle as many trains. There were also some gap crews who had a scheduled trip for a long time and never made them, I guess those jobs are gone as well. Sometimes you can't go by the timetable (for those of you who don't work here and have access to a internal supplements) like it was handed down to you from God like the 10 commandments to Moses...

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For instance, when there's a slow speed order somewhere along the line, quietly a couple rush hour trips would be dropped as the line wouldn't be able to handle as many trains. There were also some gap crews who had a scheduled trip for a long time and never made them, I guess those jobs are gone as well. Sometimes you can't go by the timetable (for those of you who don't work here and have access to a internal supplements) like it was handed down to you from God like the 10 commandments to Moses...

 

That's another thing that I'm curious about. Wouldn't these underhanded cuts allow them to justify laying off more (MTA) workers??

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TBH hasn't the (MTA) already been saying reduced service on the (1) / (6) on G/o posters?

 

TBH i dont see much of a difference.. (1)/(6) service run normal like i see it.

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That's another thing that I'm curious about. Wouldn't these underhanded cuts allow them to justify laying off more (MTA) workers??

 

No since those workers are now extra(Who picked those Jobs) and can be used any place else..

 

"Productivity savings"

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The shuttle buses only make stops at train stations (as they're supposed to do). The only reason why it takes forever its cuz its a bus. It drives on the street so it has to obey all traffic lights

 

As for the G.Os, they mainly aim for weekends since there's less riders than it is during the week (espicall rush hours)

 

G.O on weekends > G.O during the week

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TBH hasn't the (MTA) already been saying reduced service on the (1) / (6) on G/o posters?

 

TBH i dont see much of a difference.. (1)/(6) service run normal like i see it.

i agree with you there isnt much of a difference to me i check the clocks and theres a train every 4 mins after the morning rush and in the midday its fine too me
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That's another thing that I'm curious about. Wouldn't these underhanded cuts allow them to justify laying off more (MTA) workers??

 

You just said that to TwoTimer's face, didn't you? You do know TwoTimer is an (MTA) worker...

 

That is exactly why Staten Island either needs a subway or a light rail connection. It would be better then now, because on a dedicated ROW you don't have cars weaving all over you like on a bus, and it would travel directly to the destination without other things getting in it's way.

 

Agreed. It's been too long with SI having no interborough service, if you don't count the ferry. I would have a (W) go from 57th st. in manhattan to along the North Shore branch. I would also have a light rail along Richmond Av. stemming from the Hudson Bergen Light Rail.

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i agree with you there isnt much of a difference to me i check the clocks and theres a train every 4 mins after the morning rush and in the midday its fine too me

 

I dunno about that. Since the weather was nice and not uber hot, I walked over to Grand Central and took a train Downtown yesterday around 13:00 or so to Union Square. When I got to the platform a (6) was there and I knew that they were holding it for an express train, so I walked to the first car and got on. Then an express came and I got that. I thought after the connection that the (6) would then leave, but it was still held by the dispatcher at the station for another express train I guess, so that means that train had to be held for 5-10 minutes because it took a few minutes for that express to come and so forth.

 

The (6) IMO used to run more frequently than the (4) and (5) at certain points of the day, so from what I can see, they've definitely cut back on the (6) trains. However, it seems as if the (4) and (5) aren't crawling as much, so if that's the case, maybe folks won't complain since most people would prefer faster express trains. I still remember when folks were told to take the (6) where possible because the (4) and (5) express trains ran slower than the (6) local.

 

Based on the (MTA)'s new philosophy of getting people moving on limited stop buses while they provide less local buses, maybe they've adopted this to the subway.

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I kinda do get the sense that the MTA is tryna deter usage on its buses & subways on the weekends, period.... but construction isn't a reason why I feel that way; that has to get done regardless.... the way shuttle buses currently run/operate IMO, does exacerbate matters... I'm not talkin about the simple notion of a bus being slower than a train either....

 

 

The shuttle buses only make stops at train stations (as they're supposed to do). The only reason why it takes forever its cuz its a bus. It drives on the street so it has to obey all traffic lights

 

As for the G.Os, they mainly aim for weekends since there's less riders than it is during the week (espicall rush hours)

 

G.O on weekends > G.O during the week

 

The shuttle buses do only make stops at train stations, true.... However, I do find that shuttle bus routes are actually slower than regular bus routes.... he (via) has a point w/ that.... I've never been on a shuttle bus that didn't crawl the whole way through.... Not one.....

 

Last shuttle bus I ever took, was back then when they had shuttles taking the place of the (2) b/w F'bush & Franklin av.... it was about 7am or so on a saturday.... I got on at church/NY av - it took more than 1/2 an hour to get to franklin av, and I sat there & watched 3 B44's passed us by in the process too... that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, regarding shuttle buses... never again will I take those things.... idc if they're "free" either....

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The shuttle buses only make stops at train stations (as they're supposed to do). The only reason why it takes forever its cuz its a bus. It drives on the street so it has to obey all traffic lights

 

As for the G.Os, they mainly aim for weekends since there's less riders than it is during the week (espicall rush hours)

 

G.O on weekends > G.O during the week

 

I would agree with that but for some reason I don't recall the shuttle buses for the (1) doing that Downtown, probably because you had folks trying to catch them from the ferry or trying to get to the ferry, so the whole thing down there was a mess.

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Last shuttle bus I ever took, was back then when they had shuttles taking the place of the (2) b/w F'bush & Franklin av.... it was about 7am or so on a saturday.... I got on at church/NY av - it took more than 1/2 an hour to get to franklin av, and I sat there & watched 3 B44's passed us by in the process too... that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, regarding shuttle buses... never again will I take those things.... idc if they're "free" either....

 

:eek:

I rode one of those shuttle buses. I don't remember the ride being particularly fast or slow.... What sticks out to me was how fairly consistent the shuttle buses tended to be.

 

Anyways, whenever a train takes a while to show up, my mother is quick to blame it on service cuts. Most of the time it seems to be a simple delay. I feel like telling my mom "The (MTA) clearly outlined all of their service cuts..." but the idea that she's partially right (unknowingly or not) is gold ;)

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LOL... That's because I'm posting about something that you don't like to hear about your beloved (MTA). Some folks hate hearing anything "negative" about the (MTA). I should just point out that it isn't me that reported the story... ;) I am simply stating the reality of things and my personal observations, which I guess irks you. And as for construction, there certainly have been reports of them doing construction at odd hours of the night, disturbing the communities in which they are working in, but that's another story which I don't care about since it doesn't affect me.

 

Whether you want to accept it or not, there is no question that all of the construction that is done during the weekend deters folks from using the system not because of the construction itself, but particularly because of the way in which the (MTA) organizes things and that was the point. You could further make the argument that they could argue that reducing service during those times (which they certainly appear to be doing on other subway lines when I have used them on the weekends) would be justified, so in sum they are doing a fine job of deterring ridership.

 

What irks you is that folks like me and John Liu don't accept the status quo at the (MTA) and having worked there I can tell you that the status quo needs to be changed in many aspects. We're being so hard on the (MTA) by pointing out things that can be improved to improve the system overall right??

 

No, you and John Liu are just being whiners.

 

The MTA has a lot of problems. However, those problems stem largely from decisions made by politicians and the public, not by the MTA itself. Politicians have decided to cut funding for the MTA every year and proceed to dip into the designated MTA fund whenever they want, forcing the agency to increase fares. Additionally, they create unfunded mandates like the free rides for schoolchildren (admirable, but the state and city should be paying for it, not the MTA). And the riders and politicians demand that the trains run at all hours, yet the MTA has to update their signals and repair their tracks and tunnels some time.

 

You don't get a free lunch. Politicians and riders have to accept higher fares or greater government contribution. They also have to accept that maintenance has to happen at some time--either the system has to shut down late at night, or services have to be altered at night or on the weekends to allow for maintenance.

 

You want to fix the MTA? Stop voting for the idiots who whine about inadequate service from one side of their mouths and then cut funding from the other side.

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It's the politicians that are to blame. They are nothing, but stupid rich hogs that care more about their cars and their rich luxury life compare to the average people. That is what you get from a politician of today.

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