43% of subway fare-beaters are kids, report finds, costing the MTA millions

[chrisliz09]

They go to their zoned schools, period. Being bussed to other schools is not a necessity but a privilege.

and you can add no other state does that, we cant afford to do that anymore and yea the zone schools are rite there so half fare is just rite.

[R188 7857]

Hell, I was 44 inches and more when I was 7! Bus drivers and station agents didn't care when I was farebeating. Now, 5 feet and I need to pay on the bus and I still farebeat on the subway. There should be an age limit, not a height limit. Children in the single digit ages will have free rides and 11 and up need to pay half and 14 and up pay full..

And this is my brother, NOT ME. My brother doesn't touch my computer anymore and I changed the pass of my account.

[LRG]

The problem is kids will start lying about their age to get on for free. Of course they can have their ID's checked but in this day and age anyone can make a fake ID to falsify their age. Schools should issue school IDs though with their date of birth, my school did that.

[chrisliz09]

thats not all it is the hole thing isnt just kids its teens as well more of them are doing the farebeating and they should pay. yea if your 7 and 8 9 even go rite ahead but if your 14 and older no go you need too pay just like everyone else. i did it when i was that age and i dont get that i cant afford it excuse.

[checkmatechamp13]

I agree. Let dada and mama pay for it. They get enough free sh*t on the taxpayers dime... Free breakfast, free lunch, free education. That's enough right there. :mad:

 

And you're saying that when you didn't receive a free education? With a free Student MetroCard? It's so easy to say something should be cut when you no longer use it.

 

Have you seen the kids these days? they just hold the back door of the bus for their 'buddies' and get on the bus because it's faster than to wait on the line for the front of the bus. What the hell is the point of them getting free MCs for? Damn brats are just taking up space on the train/bus on our fare. I say they should pay for their own card given the MTA being deep in the red ink. The MTA just can't afford to keep that program anymore. Student cards should be a DOE issue.

 

If they're riding for free anyway, what difference does it make to you? The faster they get on, the sonner you can start moving again.

 

Regarding the kids who hold the back door of the bus for their buddies, I won't disputer that- I see it everyday when I ride the (Q66). The point of giving them student metrocards is to help students go to and from school- be it elementary, middle or high school. Some of the funds comes from the state, but yes, the MTA does pay the bigger share. Some kids do use them for school- I use it to help me get to school from Corona to Downtown Manhattan. The DOE, who should pay at least 1/4 of the cost, I agree. There is abuse in the system, of course, but what can we do? Remember, the cards have a limit of 4 rides (I think), so there is not much else we can do.

 

 

 

Free lunch and breakfast in schools is covered by the city and federal funds under the SNAP program. Free education, well, isn't it mandated by he states- and no matter what you earn or if you receive welfare, you go to school. Some of the kids do truly use their student MC's to go and from school. The parents in this article are just being idiots. They should pay the fare, along with their kids, because if they do this, then others go along, saying it's alright cause nobody is stopping them. Yet don't use this to turn this into a discussion about student MC's and how we should take them away. Student MC's are not the topic of discussion here.

 

1) The DOE should pay the full cost of the Student MetroCards. See my blog for a way they could get the money to pay for them.

 

2) I don't see what this has to do with Student MetroCards either.

 

Would you like to "help" yourself to additional 4 or 5 extra rides on my dime while you're at it???

 

I think I will. Thanks for the offer.

 

Shifting the bill over to the city and DOE wouldn't solve anything. The taxpayers would still be paying for it. Free education is one thing, but if students really have to travel to schools outside of their zoned areas then the parents should pay for them to get to and from school, not taxpayers.

 

So you're saying that I should be receiving $4,000 of education that I don't want or need (considering I know the sh*t already), but I shouldn't receive $700 worth of Student MetroCards to get over to said school? If the DOE was smart, they'd let me skip a grade, save themselves the money, and everybody would be happy.

 

For every one of those stories, I'll give you 10 stories of parents who are poor and have brats for kids who abuse their student Metrocards and come to school to walk the halls all day. I know because I didn't go to some sheltered little Catholic private high school. I went to Sheepshead Bay High School, so I know first hand of kids coming from poor areas to the better neigborhoods. If they're that gifted then there is money out there for them to recoup via grants, scholarships, etc, believe me. You're not socking me with that old line.

 

It's very hard to get grants to go to elementary/middle/high school. They aren't giving them out like they do in college.

 

Oh please... I didn't say anything about ending all social programs, but getting rid of Student Metrocards is one I would end. That would cut out the abuse, or what I would do is those students with poor attendance records would be stripped of their Metrocards at least until they showed improvements in their grades and their attendance. These parents need to be held accountable. Everybody wants to blame the schools and the teachers, but what happened to the parents? It's like they're there as witnesses instead of taking charge of the situation like responsible adults.

 

I could agree with that. With one condition: If your average is too low to get a MetroCard, you can still qualify if a teacher (or several teachers) say that you are an overall good student. That way, people who are mentally incapable of getting a better grade still have a chance if they try hard and have decent behavior.

 

The problem is kids will start lying about their age to get on for free. Of course they can have their ID's checked but in this day and age anyone can make a fake ID to falsify their age. Schools should issue school IDs though with their date of birth, my school did that.

 

They still have that at my school (I think they have them at schools citywide).

[SoSpectacular]

Solution: Start using more of those iron maiden-styled gates, they actually work. Turnstiles aren't going to cut it anymore

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And you're saying that when you didn't receive a free education? With a free Student MetroCard? It's so easy to say something should be cut when you no longer use it.

 

Uh, excuse me but I didn't have a free Student Metrocard. I had a half fare pass most of the time and many times I walked home from school, so I had to pay half the fare most of the time when I could use my Metrocard and when I couldn't, I paid the full fare and my parents made sure that I always had my fare for the half fare pass and other times I paid out of my own pocket for the full fare if I wanted to hang out or whatever.

 

If they're riding for free anyway, what difference does it make to you? The faster they get on, the sonner you can start moving again.

 

Simple. They're not riding for free. You get your "free" rides to and from school and then the third one using that thing called a Student Metrocard. After that you PAY like the rest of us and stop stealing rides. :mad: You know exactly what they're doing and then what's worse is they don't pay and they sit there and trash the bus and make a sh*t load of noise for the paying passengers. Ridiculous! Again Student Metrocards are to get to and from school and after that third ride the gives is used, you pay. Hanging out w/friends, going to work to benefit your own pockets, etc. etc. etc.... Do it on your own dime not on our dime.

 

1) The DOE should pay the full cost of the Student MetroCards. See my blog for a way they could get the money to pay for them.

 

2) I don't see what this has to do with Student MetroCards either.

 

1) Uh, no the DOE shouldn't. The parents should pay. There are more than enough schools that are close by. Free education is good enough which the taxpayers pay for. If students want to go to schools outside of their neighborhoods the parents should pay for it. NY is in terrible shape fiscally and we cannot afford to keep paying for these things. If you think we can just ask all of the New Yorkers leaving the state. You keep taxing and taxing and there will be no one left to tax.

 

 

I think I will. Thanks for the offer.

 

I'm sure you would...

 

So you're saying that I should be receiving $4,000 of education that I don't want or need (considering I know the sh*t already), but I shouldn't receive $700 worth of Student MetroCards to get over to said school? If the DOE was smart, they'd let me skip a grade, save themselves the money, and everybody would be happy.

 

Yep and I explained why perfectly before. No need to repeat myself. You're too young to grasp the idea now, but when you get my age it'll make sense. Aside from that if you're so smart, why not just drop out?

 

 

It's very hard to get grants to go to elementary/middle/high school. They aren't giving them out like they do in college.

 

Hard but not impossible. They do exist.

 

 

I could agree with that. With one condition: If your average is too low to get a MetroCard, you can still qualify if a teacher (or several teachers) say that you are an overall good student. That way, people who are mentally incapable of getting a better grade still have a chance if they try hard and have decent behavior.

 

Perhaps. Everything shouldn't be based on grades, but I think attendance would also indicate what type a student they are.

[Iamthe1]

they should have some sort of reduced fare for the kids (18 and under) during the summer, like a dollar metrocard - you can only get it from a token booth clerk with valid i.d. (or something like that), they'd work as single rides so they'd have to be bought seperately

 

idk i was just throwing that out there...discount with school id ? but i really dont kno :confused:

 

its cheaper cause not all of us dont have jobs to pay (im 15)

[chrisliz09]

they should have some sort of reduced fare for the kids (18 and under) during the summer, like a dollar metrocard - you can only get it from a token booth clerk with valid i.d. (or something like that), they'd work as single rides so they'd have to be bought seperately

 

idk i was just throwing that out there...discount with school id ? but i really dont kno :confused:

 

its cheaper cause not all of us dont have jobs to pay (im 15)

if your in school you already get half off or full, and we have been doing that for years now back in the 90s when i was in school before we had metro cards we had too show a card too the driver or station clerk to get on, now kids are just hoping

[checkmatechamp13]

Uh, excuse me but I didn't have a free Student Metrocard. I had a half fare pass most of the time and many times I walked home from school, so I had to pay half the fare most of the time when I could use my Metrocard and when I couldn't, I paid the full fare and my parents made sure that I always had my fare for the half fare pass and other times I paid out of my own pocket for the full fare if I wanted to hang out or whatever.

 

 

 

Simple. They're not riding for free. You get your "free" rides to and from school and then the third one using that thing called a Student Metrocard. After that you PAY like the rest of us and stop stealing rides. :mad: You know exactly what they're doing and then what's worse is they don't pay and they sit there and trash the bus and make a sh*t load of noise for the paying passengers. Ridiculous! Again Student Metrocards are to get to and from school and after that third ride the gives is used, you pay. Hanging out w/friends, going to work to benefit your own pockets, etc. etc. etc.... Do it on your own dime not on our dime.

 

 

 

1) Uh, no the DOE shouldn't. The parents should pay. There are more than enough schools that are close by. Free education is good enough which the taxpayers pay for. If students want to go to schools outside of their neighborhoods the parents should pay for it. NY is in terrible shape fiscally and we cannot afford to keep paying for these things. If you think we can just ask all of the New Yorkers leaving the state. You keep taxing and taxing and there will be no one left to tax.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure you would...

 

 

 

Yep and I explained why perfectly before. No need to repeat myself. You're too young to grasp the idea now, but when you get my age it'll make sense. Aside from that if you're so smart, why not just drop out?

 

 

 

Hard but not impossible. They do exist.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps. Everything shouldn't be based on grades, but I think attendance would also indicate what type a student they are.

 

Bold #1: Didn't you say you would just cover the 1/2 fare part and walk on?

 

Bold #2: I'm sure most of those people aren't going to use more than 3 rides per day anyway, even if they did dip it in.

 

Bold #3: And if that job benefits the community (and gives taxes to boot), and the free ride is the only thing that makes it worth going there (or else it isn't even worth the time to go)?

 

Bold #4: So it's OK for the suburbs (LI, Westchester, NJ, etc) to have yellow school bus service (which I'm sure costs more than a subway ride), but it's not OK for us to use transit for free?

 

Bold #5: What good would that do? Then I wouldn't have a high school diploma (and I'm sure the school would be a pain in the @ss if I tried to get a GED).

 

And my dad got an associates degree by the time he was 18, and he never regretted going through school so fast. The extra income he made from finishing early helped him move to his own place faster than if he had finished according to schedule.

 

if your in school you already get half off or full, and we have been doing that for years now back in the 90s when i was in school before we had metro cards we had too show a card too the driver or station clerk to get on, now kids are just hoping

 

Let's think. A group of 20 kids get on the bus outside of a school. I wonder where they are coming from?

[B35 via Church]

Bold #4: So it's OK for the suburbs (LI, Westchester, NJ, etc) to have yellow school bus service (which I'm sure costs more than a subway ride), but it's not OK for us to use transit for free?

I don't see what either situation has to do w/ each other..... Nor do I get what point you're tryna make with this particular statement.....

 

If parents for children that live in the burbs want to pay for cheese buses to take their kids to/from school, let em.... You think they're worried about how children in the city get to/from school? They couldn't care less if they paid full fare, 1/2 fare, or boarded freely by w/e method(s)....

 

You'd have more of a point with that, if via was suggesting that suburban kids receive free rides to school....

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't see what either situation has to do w/ each other..... Nor do I get what point you're tryna make with this particular statement.....

 

If parents for children that live in the burbs want to pay for cheese buses to take their kids to/from school, let em.... You think they're worried about how children in the city get to/from school? They couldn't care less if they paid full fare, 1/2 fare, or boarded freely by w/e method(s)....

 

You'd have more of a point with that, if via was suggesting that suburban kids receive free rides to school....

 

But the point is that he complains about how high taxes will drive out the upper-middle class, and yet people in the suburbs deal with even higher taxes (to pay for things like free transportation for students) and you don't see them leaving.

[chrisliz09]

Bold #1: Didn't you say you would just cover the 1/2 fare part and walk on?

 

Bold #2: I'm sure most of those people aren't going to use more than 3 rides per day anyway, even if they did dip it in.

 

Bold #3: And if that job benefits the community (and gives taxes to boot), and the free ride is the only thing that makes it worth going there (or else it isn't even worth the time to go)?

 

Bold #4: So it's OK for the suburbs (LI, Westchester, NJ, etc) to have yellow school bus service (which I'm sure costs more than a subway ride), but it's not OK for us to use transit for free?

 

Bold #5: What good would that do? Then I wouldn't have a high school diploma (and I'm sure the school would be a pain in the @ss if I tried to get a GED).

 

And my dad got an associates degree by the time he was 18, and he never regretted going through school so fast. The extra income he made from finishing early helped him move to his own place faster than if he had finished according to schedule.

 

 

 

Let's think. A group of 20 kids get on the bus outside of a school. I wonder where they are coming from?

they still have too use the metro card it still paying for it

[checkmatechamp13]

The MTA doesn't get any additional money when they dip it in, though.

 

Think of Student MetroCards as the DOE paying $70 million to get the students unlimited rides. Whether the student dipped in their Student MetroCard or not, the MTA is still getting its $70 million.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The MTA doesn't get any additional money when they dip it in, though.

 

Think of Student MetroCards as the DOE paying $70 million to get the students unlimited rides. Whether the student dipped in their Student MetroCard or not, the MTA is still getting its $70 million.

 

You keep trying to skip around the issue. They're supposed to dip the cards and pay after they've used the third ride. Why do you keep making excuses for them to justify their fare beating?? It is not excusable and it is nothing more than stealing. :mad: In addition to that it helps to increase the fares and also doesn't provide an accurate count of how many people are using the buses and subway, thus throwing off service demand.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Bold #1: Didn't you say you would just cover the 1/2 fare part and walk on?

 

Where are you getting this from??? You're quoting me and yet you're completely speaking incorrectly about what I said. I said sometimes I would walk home. What part of that isn't clear??? The other times I would show my pass and pay the difference needed, which back them was .75 cents.

 

Bold #2: I'm sure most of those people aren't going to use more than 3 rides per day anyway, even if they did dip it in.

 

How would you know if they don't dip? Truth be told, I've seen plenty of students get on who have used all of their rides. In theory if they were going to and from school and not joy riding then three rides should be enough, but they're too busy abusing the cards to do that, so therefore they don't have enough rides. :mad:

 

Bold #3: And if that job benefits the community (and gives taxes to boot), and the free ride is the only thing that makes it worth going there (or else it isn't even worth the time to go)?

 

Well let's see now, based on your theory, everyone who works and pays taxes should ride the bus for free then, which would mean that the system would collapse since it wouldn't have enough revenue to support itself. I'm sorry but I disagree. The people who fare beat are the ones that cause the most problems on the bus and subway and therefore a fare is needed. That's exactly why folks on the South Shore are pushing to have the fare on the SIR re-instated and I don't blame them. Too many thugs coming into our neck of the woods and we don't need the crime in our neighborhoods. Implement a fare and make them pay like the rest of us and enforce the fare for students too. No more of this jumping on the bus and walking on like they've got it made. It's ridiculous and you trying to justify them stealing rides is even more ridiculous. It's one thing to advocate for free transit and another to advocate for people stealing, which is what you're doing. Smh

 

Bold #4: So it's OK for the suburbs (LI, Westchester, NJ, etc) to have yellow school bus service (which I'm sure costs more than a subway ride), but it's not OK for us to use transit for free?

 

Where did I say that at?? And what does NJ have to do with NY??? I don't pay taxes in NJ so I could care less what they do in NJ. What I do care about is how my tax dollars are used and I don't care for them going for deadbeats who abuse the system. Like I said, you either go to the school that you're zoned to, or you pay to get there. Taxpayers are gracious enough to provide free education, free food, and so forth, how much more should we give?? No where does it say that we are obligated to provide funds so that students can go to "specific" schools for an education.

 

Bold #5: What good would that do? Then I wouldn't have a high school diploma (and I'm sure the school would be a pain in the @ss if I tried to get a GED).

 

That's exactly my point. You may be smart, but you don't know everything. No one is perfect. It's not just about the grades you get, but what you learn in addition to the grades. Tests DO NOT teach you everything. Learning is certainly much more than just passing tests. You are going to school not to skip grades, but to learn how to function in society in addition to getting an education and skipping classes is not necessarily all that beneficial in terms of the things that you won't learn with a simple test. Believe me, I know from experience.

 

And my dad got an associates degree by the time he was 18, and he never regretted going through school so fast. The extra income he made from finishing early helped him move to his own place faster than if he had finished according to schedule.

 

Everything in life isn't about dollars and cents...

 

 

Let's think. A group of 20 kids get on the bus outside of a school. I wonder where they are coming from?

 

And what's your point???

 

But the point is that he complains about how high taxes will drive out the upper-middle class, and yet people in the suburbs deal with even higher taxes (to pay for things like free transportation for students) and you don't see them leaving.

 

The cost of living in the suburbs is generally cheaper, so naturally they wouldn't be leaving. That's a no brainer. There are a few exceptions, (i.e. parts of Long Island, Westchester, etc.) but generally speaking it is more to live in NYC than say NJ, much more infact.

 

You argue that people have to make a living (i.e. when you argued about taxi drivers having to make a living to support their family (and then you expect them to supplement all of these things that eat away at their salaries. The two ideas make no sense together.

[checkmatechamp13]

You keep trying to skip around the issue. They're supposed to dip the cards and pay after they've used the third ride. Why do you keep making excuses for them to justify their fare beating?? It is not excusable and it is nothing more than stealing. :mad: In addition to that it helps to increase the fares and also doesn't provide an accurate count of how many people are using the buses and subway, thus throwing off service demand.

 

They have a button to press that records farebeaters, so they still get an accuate count.

 

Where are you getting this from??? You're quoting me and yet you're completely speaking incorrectly about what I said. I said sometimes I would walk home. What part of that isn't clear??? The other times I would show my pass and pay the difference needed, which back them was .75 cents.

 

 

 

How would you know if they don't dip? Truth be told, I've seen plenty of students get on who have used all of their rides. In theory if they were going to and from school and not joy riding then three rides should be enough, but they're too busy abusing the cards to do that, so therefore they don't have enough rides. :mad:

 

 

 

Well let's see now, based on your theory, everyone who works and pays taxes should ride the bus for free then, which would mean that the system would collapse since it wouldn't have enough revenue to support itself. I'm sorry but I disagree. The people who fare beat are the ones that cause the most problems on the bus and subway and therefore a fare is needed. That's exactly why folks on the South Shore are pushing to have the fare on the SIR re-instated and I don't blame them. Too many thugs coming into our neck of the woods and we don't need the crime in our neighborhoods. Implement a fare and make them pay like the rest of us and enforce the fare for students too. No more of this jumping on the bus and walking on like they've got it made. It's ridiculous and you trying to justify them stealing rides is even more ridiculous. It's one thing to advocate for free transit and another to advocate for people stealing, which is what you're doing. Smh

 

 

 

Where did I say that at?? And what does NJ have to do with NY??? I don't pay taxes in NJ so I could care less what they do in NJ. What I do care about is how my tax dollars are used and I don't care for them going for deadbeats who abuse the system. Like I said, you either go to the school that you're zoned to, or you pay to get there. Taxpayers are gracious enough to provide free education, free food, and so forth, how much more should we give?? No where does it say that we are obligated to provide funds so that students can go to "specific" schools for an education.

 

 

 

That's exactly my point. You may be smart, but you don't know everything. No one is perfect. It's not just about the grades you get, but what you learn in addition to the grades. Tests DO NOT teach you everything. Learning is certainly much more than just passing tests. You are going to school not to skip grades, but to learn how to function in society in addition to getting an education and skipping classes is not necessarily all that beneficial in terms of the things that you won't learn with a simple test. Believe me, I know from experience.

 

 

 

Everything in life isn't about dollars and cents...

 

 

 

 

And what's your point???

 

 

 

The cost of living in the suburbs is generally cheaper, so naturally they wouldn't be leaving. That's a no brainer. There are a few exceptions, (i.e. parts of Long Island, Westchester, etc.) but generally speaking it is more to live in NYC than say NJ, much more infact.

 

You argue that people have to make a living (i.e. when you argued about taxi drivers having to make a living to support their family (and then you expect them to supplement all of these things that eat away at their salaries. The two ideas make no sense together.

 

Bold #1: I recall a while back, you talked about how you had a 1/2 fare pass, and, since you had big hands, you would sometimes cover the "1/2 fare" part.

 

Bold #2: In theory, yes. But I'm sure there are students who have to make two transfers and thus use up their 3 rides by the end of thre day.

 

And I'm assuming that there are a lot of students wouldn't have gone over 3 rides anyway (though there are some that would). On the S44, which ends in New Springville, I see kids walk on the trippers without dipping in their MetroCard, and New Springville doesn't strike me as the type of area where parents are letting the kids ride around the buses outside of getting to/from school.

 

Bold #3: And there are plenty of farebeaters who just sit quietly and don't bother anybody.

 

Bold #4: There are plenty of students whose zoned schools are far away. Living in Staten Island, I would think you would know that. In the suburbs, the students have to travel a longer distance and not only do they get free rides on the school buses, but those rides cost more than having them use public transit.

 

And if a student's zoned school is bad, you're wasting taxpayer dollars sending them there when there is an alternative that only requires some traveling.

 

Bold #5: So you're saying that showing up to school, sleeping, and socializing is a good use of taxpayer funds? I'm not learning anything: I'm learning to resent the school system for doing this. I got a 100 on the Italian Regents and half the words were Spanish words that I twisted around until they sounded Italian.

 

If I graduated early, I'd get my life skills from working, making money, and contributing to our tax base. Rather than me being a tax burden, wouldn't you rather I be an asset?

 

In any case, let's say it is better for me to sit in school and not learn anything. In times of budget crisis, wouldn't you rather those funds be applied towards more useful things?

 

If my education costs $5,000 per year, and the X16 eliminating saved $600,000, would you rather send 120 kids like me to school for the year, or would you rather have your bus back?

 

Bold #5: Exactly. There are a whole bunch of areas they could go to that have lower taxes, but they choose to remain in that area.

 

Bold #6: But a lot of these working families have children, who would benefit from free Student MetroCards and other similar programs. Those taxi drivers are probably in a low enough tax bracket that they would see a net benefit.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They have a button to press that records farebeaters, so they still get an accuate count.

 

 

 

Bold #1: I recall a while back, you talked about how you had a 1/2 fare pass, and, since you had big hands, you would sometimes cover the "1/2 fare" part.

 

Yes, I and I also stated that it was stupid of me to do it, but it certainly wasn't anything done on the reg. that's for sure.

 

And I'm assuming that there are a lot of students wouldn't have gone over 3 rides anyway (though there are some that would). On the S44, which ends in New Springville, I see kids walk on the trippers without dipping in their MetroCard, and New Springville doesn't strike me as the type of area where parents are letting the kids ride around the buses outside of getting to/from school.

 

I don't care where it is. They should be dipping period.

 

Bold #3: And there are plenty of farebeaters who just sit quietly and don't bother anybody.

 

What difference does it make? They don't belong on the bus to begin with seeing that they didn't dip their pass or pay their fare. Them causing problems on the bus or subway is just the icing on the cake.

 

Hell, I sit quietly on the express bus, so I guess I should walk on and help myself to a seat.

 

Bold #4: There are plenty of students whose zoned schools are far away. Living in Staten Island, I would think you would know that. In the suburbs, the students have to travel a longer distance and not only do they get free rides on the school buses, but those rides cost more than having them use public transit.

 

And if a student's zoned school is bad, you're wasting taxpayer dollars sending them there when there is an alternative that only requires some traveling.

 

Zoned school or not, Metrocards are a privilege NOT an entitlement. It is the parents' responsibility to provide for their kids, not the taxpayer. If the parents can't afford the kids then don't have any. These parents complain about how expensive it is, but no one is forcing them to have kids. There is no way in hell that I'm going to have 2 - 3 kids if I can't afford to provide for them.

 

Bold #5: So you're saying that showing up to school, sleeping, and socializing is a good use of taxpayer funds? I'm not learning anything: I'm learning to resent the school system for doing this. I got a 100 on the Italian Regents and half the words were Spanish words that I twisted around until they sounded Italian.

 

No, your example right there is exactly why I would get rid of Student Metrocards. Why should you get a Metrocard to sit and socialize and sleep in class when you're supposed to be there studying and LEARNING and applying yourself? So what if you pass the tests. You aren't learning anything. We have a bunch of youth in this country that is doing nothing but BSing and the end result is a bunch of illiterate folks who wind up working at McDonald's or some place. Then they turn around and blame the school system and the teachers for not doing enough. Meanwhile the students aren'y applying themselves. I remember when I volunteered at an afterschool program in Midwood. We had quite a few kids that couldn't even read and write, nor will those kids be able to function in a professional setting. Learning in this country is taking a step backwards and that's why Metrocards should not just be given out just because. If the parents were paying for them students would take their classes more seriously and those who didn't well, they would be their parents problem and not a burden on the taxpayers.

 

If I graduated early, I'd get my life skills from working, making money, and contributing to our tax base. Rather than me being a tax burden, wouldn't you rather I be an asset?

This isn't about you graduating early to make money. This is about you LEARNING and getting an education.

 

In any case, let's say it is better for me to sit in school and not learn anything. In times of budget crisis, wouldn't you rather those funds be applied towards more useful things?

No it is not better for you to sit in school and not learn anything. That's the whole problem with the school system as it is. A bunch of kids sitting in class bullsh*tting not learning anything because they're too lazy to apply themselves. All they care about is who has the latest gear on.

 

If my education costs $5,000 per year, and the X16 eliminating saved $600,000, would you rather send 120 kids like me to school for the year, or would you rather have your bus back?

I'm sorry, but you cannot put a price on education and clearly you are too young and naïve to see that.

 

Bold #6: But a lot of these working families have children, who would benefit from free Student MetroCards and other similar programs. Those taxi drivers are probably in a low enough tax bracket that they would see a net benefit.

 

There is only so much money to go around. We cannot subsidize everything. The state and the city simply can't afford it.

[checkmatechamp13]

 

I don't care where it is. They should be dipping period.

 

 

What difference does it make? They don't belong on the bus to begin with seeing that they didn't dip their pass or pay their fare. Them causing problems on the bus or subway is just the icing on the cake.

 

Hell, I sit quietly on the express bus, so I guess I should walk on and help myself to a seat.

 

This isn't about you graduating early to make money. This is about you LEARNING and getting an education.

 

No it is not better for you to sit in school and not learn anything. That's the whole problem with the school system as it is. A bunch of kids sitting in class bullsh*tting not learning anything because they're too lazy to apply themselves. All they care about is who has the latest gear on.

 

I'm sorry, but you cannot put a price on education and clearly you are too young and naïve to see that.

 

 

There is only so much money to go around. We cannot subsidize everything. The state and the city simply can't afford it.

 

Bold #1: Alright, but it won't do any good.

 

Bold #2: Sure, why not?

 

Bold #3: The point of school is to come away with a certain amount of knowledge. You'd rather I be less intelligent and have to learn all of the stuff, rather than already knowing it?

 

Bold #4: Apply myself to what? The school won't let me advance. I asked to go into AP Calculus a year early, and they said that I couldn't do it because I wasn't a junior, even though my grades were higher than those of a lot of juniors.

 

And I could care les about what type of clothes I wear. I also don't have an iPod, iPhone, Wii, or any of those other fancy electronics.

 

Bold #5: No, but the DOE can. A person at the YMCA who deals with truants (the YMCA is a part-time job) said that the average student costs $4,500 per year to educate (and I remember somebody else saying a private school costs something like $4,000 per year)

 

In any case, you didn't answer my question.

 

Bold #6: Or they can work out the loopholes in the tax system to raise additional revenue. You said that since Donald Trump makes most of his money off of investments, his tax rate is lower than most people's (though in raw numbers, he pays more)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Bold #2: Sure, why not?

 

Why am not surprised by that answer...

 

Bold #3: The point of school is to come away with a certain amount of knowledge. You'd rather I be less intelligent and have to learn all of the stuff, rather than already knowing it?

 

Well how are you learning "stuff" if you're sleeping in class?? You're just fortunate enough to be smart enough to BS your way through, but you won't necessarily always be able to do that. Eventually BSing does catch up to you. Now let's look at all of the kids without your smarts and see why they're being left back... Is it really a surprise??? But yeah, let's keeping wasting money on Student Metrocards just because. If it were me, the kids that kept f*cking up would be shipped off to a special boarding school or better yet, I would do like they do in parts of Europe. If the kids want to hang out and miss school, let the parents pay or be jailed. Germany puts parents in jail or has them pay fines of up to $2,000 if the kids keep missing school and f*cking up and that works out quite well. :cool: :tup:

[checkmatechamp13]

Why am not surprised by that answer...

 

 

 

Well how are you learning "stuff" if you're sleeping in class?? You're just fortunate enough to be smart enough to BS your way through, but won't necessarily always be able to do that. Eventually BSing does catch up to you. Now let's look at all of the kids without your smarts and see why they're being left back... Is it really a surprise??? But yeah, let's keeping wasting money on Student Metrocards just because. If it were me, the kids that kept f*cking up would be shipped off to a special school or better, yet I would do like they do in parts of Europe. If the kids want to hang out and miss school, let the parents pay or be jailed. Germany puts parents are in jail or pay fines up to $2,000 if the kids keep missing school and f*cking up and that works out quite well. :cool: :tup:

 

I'm not saying that all kids who sleep through class are smart or manage to BS their way through class. I'm saying that if there is somebody who has repeatedly demonstrated their intelligence, why not let them skip ahead?

 

And in a lot of those classes, I don't BS my way through. For instance, in chemistry, the teacher would assign the homework and then discuss the topic the next day. I would do the homework, understand it, and, since I knew the material, I could sleep through the class (though most of the time, I just did homework from another class. :cool: )

 

As far as Italian goes, if I were in a Spanish class, I wouldn't have to BS my way through: I would know all of the words and still get 100. Is it my fault if I have prior knowledge?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm not saying that all kids who sleep through class are smart or manage to BS their way through class. I'm saying that if there is somebody who has repeatedly demonstrated their intelligence, why not let them skip ahead?

 

And in a lot of those classes, I don't BS my way through. For instance, in chemistry, the teacher would assign the homework and then discuss the topic the next day. I would do the homework, understand it, and, since I knew the material, I could sleep through the class (though most of the time, I just did homework from another class. :cool: )

 

As far as Italian goes, if I were in a Spanish class, I wouldn't have to BS my way through: I would know all of the words and still get 100. Is it my fault if I have prior knowledge?

 

 

Well I used to do the same thing w/French. I didn't BS per se but I didn't have to work as hard since I already know Spanish & Italian. That doesn't mean I didn't apply myself though. My point is no one is perfect and there is always something to learn. Hell I've taught tons of Italian and Spanish classes back when I used to teach adults on the side and you would be amazed at the amount of things I learned while teaching.

 

 

For some classes, perhaps you should be skipped, but NOT unless it is very clear that you have all of skills required to move ahead. :mad: We have too many kids in the system that are pushed ahead and moved to the next grade who shouldn't be and they end up being in high school lacking the skills that they should have, and I mean the basic skills too like reading, writing and so forth. What good is it doing them to be in 8th grade when they read on a 4th grade level and can't even write properly?? Sure skip kids ahead, but make sure that they are prepared fully to be skipped ahead.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And I could care les about what type of clothes I wear. I also don't have an iPod, iPhone, Wii, or any of those other fancy electronics.

 

The average student does though. Meanwhile they don't value their education enough to invest in it.

 

P.S. I wish you would stop adding stuff after I've already posted to your quotes. And you wonder why I'm not answering some of your questions... lol

 

 

Bold #5: No, but the DOE can. A person at the YMCA who deals with truants (the YMCA is a part-time job) said that the average student costs $4,500 per year to educate (and I remember somebody else saying a private school costs something like $4,000 per year)

 

In any case, you didn't answer my question.

 

LMAO... And where do you think the DOE gets the money from, the sky???

 

And yes I did answer your question. I said education doesn't have a price, which means that a youth's education is more important than an express bus. That express bus can be served by a privatee operator.

 

 

Bold #6: Or they can work out the loopholes in the tax system to raise additional revenue. You said that since Donald Trump makes most of his money off of investments, his tax rate is lower than most people's (though in raw numbers, he pays more)

 

LMAO.... Sure they can... That's why the state is practically bankrupt now...

[checkmatechamp13]

Well I used to do the same thing w/French. I didn't BS per se but I didn't have to work as hard since I already know Spanish & Italian. That doesn't mean I didn't apply myself though. My point is no one is perfect and there is always something to learn. Hell I've taught tons of Italian and Spanish classes back when I used to teach adults on the side and you would be amazed at the amount of things I learned while teaching.

 

 

For some classes, perhaps you should be skipped, but NOT unless it is very clear that you have all of skills required to move ahead. :mad: We have too many kids in the system that are pushed ahead and moved to the next grade who shouldn't be and they end up being in high school lacking the skills that they should have, and I mean the basic skills too like reading, writing and so forth. What good is it doing them to be in 8th grade when they read on a 4th grade level and can't even write properly?? Sure skip kids ahead, but make sure that they are prepared fully to be skipped ahead.

 

1) I didn't BS the entire thing: There were a lot of sections where I applied the knowledge that I learned in Italian (rather than twisting around Spanish words)

 

2) That's all I'm saying. Make sure the student knows enough that they would easily pass the class if they took it (give them what would be a final for that class, and if they score, say 80 or above, they can skip the class).

 

It's amazing what a disparity there is. When I was in kindergarden, I was already reading real books: We went to the library for a field trip (the one by Brighton First Street), and I picked out 20 books, fully understanding what they were about (wild cats like lions, leopards, etc), rather than picking out picture books.

 

On a side note, I couldn't carry them all, so I narrowed it down to just 4 books.

 

So you have kids who are way ahead of everybody, and kids who are way behind in each grade level.

 

The average student does though. Meanwhile they don't value their education enough to invest in it.

 

P.S. I wish you would stop adding stuff after I've already posted to your quotes. And you wonder why I'm not answering some of your questions... lol

 

 

 

LMAO... And where do you think the DOE gets the money from, the sky???

 

And yes I did answer your question. I said education doesn't have a price, which means that a youth's education is more important than an express bus. That express bus can be served by a privatee operator.

 

 

 

LMAO.... Sure they can... That's why the state is practically bankrupt now...

 

1) Well, I used to be a lot worse with that.

 

2) But doesn't that prove my point?

 

3) But if somehow, a private operator couldn't take it over, which would you pick?

[Rell]

No, your example right there is exactly why I would get rid of Student Metrocards. Why should you get a Metrocard to sit and socialize and sleep in class when you're supposed to be there studying and LEARNING and applying yourself? So what if you pass the tests. You aren't learning anything. We have a bunch of youth in this country that is doing nothing but BSing and the end result is a bunch of illiterate folks who wind up working at McDonald's or some place. Then they turn around and blame the school system and the teachers for not doing enough. Meanwhile the students aren'y applying themselves. I remember when I volunteered at an afterschool program in Midwood. We had quite a few kids that couldn't even read and write, nor will those kids be able to function in a professional setting. Learning in this country is taking a step backwards and that's why Metrocards should not just be given out just because. If the parents were paying for them students would take their classes more seriously and those who didn't well, they would be their parents problem and not a burden on the taxpayers.

 

I hate to jump in on this argument (because I hate getting into other people's business), but I feel compelled to make a statement about this. The point he was trying to make about the whole "sit and socialize and sleep in class when you're supposed to be there studying" thing was that if you send them all to their zoned school, that's what's going to happen.

 

Take me for example. I live in the Southeast Bronx (along the Pelham line), yet I go to school in Bedford Park (along the Jerome line). If I was not given a MetroCard to attend school, I'd be attending my zoned school. And I guarantee you that it would be a lot harder to "apply myself" at my zoned high school than at Bronx Science. Now for the most part you're right, the Student MetroCard system is abused. But if anything, it should have stricter limitations, not be completely revoked. Many people would actually be risking their education (and in some cases, their wellbeing) by having to resort to their zoned schools.

 

By the way, if parents were paying for their kids to travel to school, most of them would be taking it just as seriously as they do now. Most of them could care less who's paying it, as long as it's not directly them. So what exactly are you trying to prove with that?

 

I could go on, but I fear that I've already brought myself into this pointless argument.