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Dear mta, since we know you read the forums: S83 fall pick 2011


SIR North Shore

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Yeah I really hope it really out even though I don't use the S53 a lot. It would be nice to know that I had it near me if I needed it for some reason.

 

You never know. Hopefully, the increased frequencies that result will alleviate some of the crowding.

 

If nothing else, since ridership is pretty concentrated at the major stops (Forest Avenue, Victory Blvd, etc), you'll be able to let some crowded limiteds go by and get on an emptier local.

 

Most local riders value speed over comfort, so they can use the limiteds and riders like yourself can take the local.

 

Having limited service should also speed up the locals. Think about it, fewer riders on the locals means that less time is wasted because fewer people have to dip in their MetroCards. Of course, the limited will still be faster, but the locals will see an increase in speed as well.

 

For example, when I took the M15 local, I saw a bunch of people passing it up and waiting for the limited. The fact that we didn't have to wait for everybody to dip in their MetroCards sped up the local.

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You never know. Hopefully, the increased frequencies that result will alleviate some of the crowding.

 

If nothing else, since ridership is pretty concentrated at the major stops (Forest Avenue, Victory Blvd, etc), you'll be able to let some crowded limiteds go by and get on an emptier local.

 

Most local riders value speed over comfort, so they can use the limiteds and riders like yourself can take the local.

 

Having limited service should also speed up the locals. Think about it, fewer riders on the locals means that less time is wasted because fewer people have to dip in their MetroCards. Of course, the limited will still be faster, but the locals will see an increase in speed as well.

 

For example, when I took the M15 local, I saw a bunch of people passing it up and waiting for the limited. The fact that we didn't have to wait for everybody to dip in their MetroCards sped up the local.

 

No, I would use the limiteds as well. It would basically be 4 stops for me to Richmond Rd for the X10 or 6 stops to Hylan Blvd for the X1 or X2 from Forest Avenue. Not for nothing, but I don't want to be on Staten Island local buses any longer than I have to and one benefit of it would be that you know exactly what stops it is making this way I don't have people banging into me and all on top of me and sh*t (yet another reason I hate taking the Staten Island local buses. Unless they're working professionals, they act like savages with no manners and I need my personal space). :mad:

 

Another reason the S53 moves so slowly is because people constantly ring the bell and don't even look for what stop they're requesting, so stops are made for no reason, simply because people are clueless. :P In addition to that if they are actually getting off they wait until the very last minute to get up, well after they should have, hence why they go banging into people, because by then they should already be at the door getting off. With the limited, I'll be able to move so that they can get off in advance whenever I do take it.

 

However, you are right about the local buses speeding up. The M1, M2 and M3 work beautifully coming from 8th street. The (MTA) nailed that set up perfectly, because the M2 works as the workhorse in terms of picking up at the big stops and then the M1 and M3 come after to pick up the crumbs so to speak, so many times I'll take an M1 or an M3 and we'll either beat the limited or be right with the limited and still have a quick trip. :cool: The only thing that I'm puzzled about is why there are so few M2s going Downtown and so many more M5s. :confused:

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No, I would use the limiteds as well. It would basically be 4 stops for me to Richmond Rd for the X10 or 6 stops to Hylan Blvd for the X1 or X2 from Forest Avenue. Not for nothing, but I don't want to be on Staten Island local buses any longer than I have to and one benefit of it would be that you know exactly what stops it is making this way I don't have people banging into me and all on top of me and sh*t (yet another reason I hate taking the Staten Island local buses. Unless they're working professionals, they act like savages with no manners and I need my personal space). :mad:

 

Another reason the S53 moves so slowly is because people constantly ring the bell and don't even look for what stop they're requesting, so stops are made for no reason, simply because people are clueless. :P In addition to that if they are actually getting off they wait until the very last minute to get up, well after they should have, hence why they go banging into people, because by then they should already be at the door getting off. With the limited, I'll be able to move so that they can get off in advance whenever I do take it.

 

However, you are right about the local buses speeding up. The M1, M2 and M3 work beautifully coming from 8th street. The (MTA) nailed that set up perfectly, because the M2 works as the workhorse in terms of picking up at the big stops and then the M1 and M3 come after to pick up the crumbs so to speak, so many times I'll take an M1 or an M3 and we'll either beat the limited or be right with the limited and still have a quick trip. :cool: The only thing that I'm puzzled about is why there are so few M2s going Downtown and so many more M5s. :confused:

 

The reason why I was thinking that you would use the locals more is because the limiteds would probably be more crowded. I remember you mentioning that you would occasionally take the S53->S93->X2, but I figured that it was a different story because the S93 is less crowded (and the people are more civilized)

 

Some of the people are literally ringing the bell for the hell of it, and they have no intentions of getting off, so they slow everybody down for no reason. :P They're slowing themselves down as well, but those morons don't have any places to go.

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The reason why I was thinking that you would use the locals more is because the limiteds would probably be more crowded. I remember you mentioning that you would occasionally take the S53->S93->X2, but I figured that it was a different story because the S93 is less crowded (and the people are more civilized)

 

Some of the people are literally ringing the bell for the hell of it, and they have no intentions of getting off, so they slow everybody down for no reason. :P They're slowing themselves down as well, but those morons don't have any places to go.

 

 

Well the S93 dealt with two situations... Mainly civilized college students riding and it was only 4 stops to get to Hylan Blvd for the X2 from Victory and Clove, so it was a win win situation. There are two problems that make SI local buses unattractive: They are slow and make too many stops and they're unfrequent and often late, so having more limited stop runs would help deal with those problems, speed up the buses and make them more attractive. It's especially problematic for a borough which relies heavily on its buses due to a lack of subways or light rails.

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Well the S93 dealt with two situations... Mainly civilized college students riding and it was only 4 stops to get to Hylan Blvd for the X2 from Victory and Clove, so it was a win win situation. There are two problems that make SI local buses unattractive: They are slow and make too many stops and they're unfrequent and often late, so having more limited stop runs would help deal with those problems, speed up the buses and make them more attractive. It's especially problematic for a borough which relies heavily on its buses due to a lack of subways or light rails.

 

In the AM rush, there aren't any college students using it (I should know because it's my backup option in case I miss the S92), but I see what you're saying.

 

The S53 doesn't really have a frequency problem, but it does have a bunching problem, so the limited will definitely help the people move faster. Of course, it won't really help with the crowding problems, but at least the people will have to spend less time on the crowded buses, since they'll be moving faster.

 

If they decide to make the limited travel local north of Forest Avenue, maybe a way to alleviate any overcrowding (I'm sure the limited will attract increased ridership) is to have a few buses start from the S54's terminal by Richmond Terrace.

 

During rush hour, the buses currently run every 8-10 minutes, so the pattern could look like this:

 

*Locals from Port Richmond every 15 minutes

*Locals from West Brighton every 30 minutes

*Limiteds from Port Richmond every 12-15 minutes

 

The West Brighton buses should be scheduled to arrive at Cary Avenue and points south slightly ahead of the Port Richmond locals, so they relieve some of the crowding. This would concentrate the service in the areas where there is the most overcrowding (Port Richmond riders can always take the S46/S96 to Broadway so they can have more options)

 

Actually, come to think about it, this can be done regardless of whether it makes local or limited stops north of Forest Avenue.

 

Reverse-peak and off-peak, the locals and limiteds can run every 15 minutes each. Maybe the locals can terminate in West Brighton to cut down on costs, since there aren't too many crowding issues there.

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In the AM rush, there aren't any college students using it (I should know because it's my backup option in case I miss the S92), but I see what you're saying.

 

The S53 doesn't really have a frequency problem, but it does have a bunching problem, so the limited will definitely help the people move faster. Of course, it won't really help with the crowding problems, but at least the people will have to spend less time on the crowded buses, since they'll be moving faster.

 

If they decide to make the limited travel local north of Forest Avenue, maybe a way to alleviate any overcrowding (I'm sure the limited will attract increased ridership) is to have a few buses start from the S54's terminal by Richmond Terrace.

 

During rush hour, the buses currently run every 8-10 minutes, so the pattern could look like this:

 

*Locals from Port Richmond every 15 minutes

*Locals from West Brighton every 30 minutes

*Limiteds from Port Richmond every 12-15 minutes

 

The West Brighton buses should be scheduled to arrive at Cary Avenue and points south slightly ahead of the Port Richmond locals, so they relieve some of the crowding. This would concentrate the service in the areas where there is the most overcrowding (Port Richmond riders can always take the S46/S96 to Broadway so they can have more options)

 

Actually, come to think about it, this can be done regardless of whether it makes local or limited stops north of Forest Avenue.

 

Reverse-peak and off-peak, the locals and limiteds can run every 15 minutes each. Maybe the locals can terminate in West Brighton to cut down on costs, since there aren't too many crowding issues there.

 

Nah, the limiteds need to run more frequently than every 12-15 minutes, especially during the rush hour. They need S83s every 10 minutes, particularly during the rush hour, otherwise I don't see bunching decreasing at all and they also need to need to slightly restructure it so that the locals run close behind the limiteds, this way the limiteds hit the main stops and the locals can hit the little stops and not get slammed at the big stops and that should help both of them move along. I also don't see the need to short turn any S53s. The route is not that all, and there is decent ridership north of Forest Avenue going towards Port Richmond. I can short turns on the S48, but not on the S53. What I would do is cut back on the amount of S53s in the evening, specifically during the rush hour, as they don't need so many of them then and take a few of those runs (not a ton, just 2 - 3 runs, pulling a bus here and there) and add them in the morning to run more S83s and S53s. And no question about it, limited stop service should be 7 days a week on the S53.

 

 

I'm curious why they're pushing for the S79 so much though? Granted it does need Select Bus Service, but maybe they think that the S53 is a short run, so that's why it doesn't need limited stop service. They've got the S53 taking about 34 minutes from one terminus to the other, and I doubt that it ever makes that kind of time simply because the ridership is so high even at 02:00 or 03:00 in the morning that it still makes a ton of stops. At other times they have it scheduled to arrive from one terminus to the other in about 50 minutes and even that isn't reasonable. They need to realize that the S53 is a feeder bus that feeds to other bus lines and subways and such and having to use a bus that takes an hour to make one connection is just not acceptable IMO. It should not take 40 minutes from Forest to Hylan Blvd for an express bus either.

 

As for the college students, I'm not necessarily referring to CSI students. Believe there are some college students that use it going that way because I see them. There are plenty of college students that attend college in the city. Some of them take the express bus (i.e. the X2, X14 and X30) and those who can't afford it take the local bus.

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Nah, the limiteds need to run more frequently than every 12-15 minutes, especially during the rush hour. They need S83s every 10 minutes, particularly during the rush hour, otherwise I don't see bunching decreasing at all and they also need to need to slightly restructure it so that the locals run close behind the limiteds, this way the limiteds hit the main stops and the locals can hit the little stops and not get slammed at the big stops and that should help both of them move along. I also don't see the need to short turn any S53s. The route is not that all, and there is decent ridership north of Forest Avenue going towards Port Richmond. I can short turns on the S48, but not on the S53. What I would do is cut back on the amount of S53s in the evening, specifically during the rush hour, as they don't need so many of them then and take a few of those runs (not a ton, just 2 - 3 runs, pulling a bus here and there) and add them in the morning to run more S83s and S53s. And no question about it, limited stop service should be 7 days a week on the S53.

 

 

I'm curious why they're pushing for the S79 so much though? Granted it does need Select Bus Service, but maybe they think that the S53 is a short run, so that's why it doesn't need limited stop service. They've got the S53 taking about 34 minutes from one terminus to the other, and I doubt that it ever makes that kind of time simply because the ridership is so high even at 02:00 or 03:00 in the morning that it still makes a ton of stops. At other times they have it scheduled to arrive from one terminus to the other in about 50 minutes and even that isn't reasonable. They need to realize that the S53 is a feeder bus that feeds to other bus lines and subways and such and having to use a bus that takes an hour to make one connection is just not acceptable IMO. It should not take 40 minutes from Forest to Hylan Blvd for an express bus either.

 

As for the college students, I'm not necessarily referring to CSI students. Believe there are some college students that use it going that way because I see them. There are plenty of college students that attend college in the city. Some of them take the express bus (i.e. the X2, X14 and X30) and those who can't afford it take the local bus.

 

As far as the limited running every 12-15 minutes, the reason is to keep costs down. Remember that the MTA wants to have it be cost-neutral, or close to it, so they'll start out light at the beginning.

 

How about 10 minute service for the limited and 15 minute service for the local? The ridership tends to be concentrated, so the limiteds would probably be more crowded than the locals and thus require more frequent service.

 

And I don't see how they come up with 50 minutes either. It takes at least 30 minutes to get to Victory Blvd, and I don't think they could make it to Port Richmond in 20 minutes.

 

Like I said, the S79 is getting +SBS+, but there is going to be no "local" S79. Riders will have to use the S59 or S78 for local stops, so it will be like the M5 and M101 in Manhattan.

 

I've found that going to St. George on the S92 is pretty reliable in the morning, since it generally doesn't get hit with crowds or anything. But I guess they feel that the S93 is better, but with me, it almost always misses the (R), and then you have to wait for the (N) to show up, so the ferry is easier for me.

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I haven't had the time to comment earlier but these are all excellent points Via & checkmate and I also commend you two for attending the agenda getting the ideas out there.

 

They really need to re-structure the S53 to make it work better for the riders and for themselves as well.

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As far as the limited running every 12-15 minutes, the reason is to keep costs down. Remember that the MTA wants to have it be cost-neutral, or close to it, so they'll start out light at the beginning.

 

How about 10 minute service for the limited and 15 minute service for the local? The ridership tends to be concentrated, so the limiteds would probably be more crowded than the locals and thus require more frequent service.

 

And I don't see how they come up with 50 minutes either. It takes at least 30 minutes to get to Victory Blvd, and I don't think they could make it to Port Richmond in 20 minutes.

 

Like I said, the S79 is getting +SBS+, but there is going to be no "local" S79. Riders will have to use the S59 or S78 for local stops, so it will be like the M5 and M101 in Manhattan.

 

I've found that going to St. George on the S92 is pretty reliable in the morning, since it generally doesn't get hit with crowds or anything. But I guess they feel that the S93 is better, but with me, it almost always misses the (R), and then you have to wait for the (N) to show up, so the ferry is easier for me.

 

I think 15 minutes is a bit much on that line to wait for a local. 12 minutes would be more reasonable and I'm sure people would b*tch about having local service cut back, but oh well. TOO BAD. If they moved their @sses and didn't ring for stops that they didn't need, the locals could move better. :mad:

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I think 15 minutes is a bit much on that line to wait for a local. 12 minutes would be more reasonable and I'm sure people would b*tch about having local service cut back, but oh well. TOO BAD. If they moved their @sses and didn't ring for stops that they didn't need, the locals could move better. :mad:

 

Waiting time isn't really an issue on the S53, but crowding is. 15 minutes isn't too long to wait for a local bus: Plenty of neighborhoods have 15 minute service (or less) during rush hours, like along the S52, S54, and S57 (not to mention that, if they're really in a rush, they can run over to a limited stop for more options)

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Waiting time isn't really an issue on the S53, but crowding is. 15 minutes isn't too long to wait for a local bus: Plenty of neighborhoods have 15 minute service (or less) during rush hours, like along the S52, S54, and S57 (not to mention that, if they're really in a rush, they can run over to a limited stop for more options)

 

That's exactly why 15 minutes is no good. The crowds would be too big and you'd have back ups. And comparing the S54 to the S53 or any otherr local SI Bus is ridiculous.... The only comparison is the S79 IMO.

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That's exactly why 15 minutes is no good. The crowds would be too big and you'd have back ups. And comparing the S54 to the S53 or any otherr local SI Bus is ridiculous.... The only comparison is the S79 IMO.

 

But the total number of S53s would be about 10 buses per hour (4 local + 6 limited). Right now, the total number of S53s is about 7-8 buses per hour, so that's 2-3 more buses right there to handle the crowding.

 

Like I said, the stops are spaced roughly 1/2 mile apart, so it's easy to walk to a limited stop to catch a bus. The limiteds would be carrying the long-distance commuters (obviously the Brooklyn riders, but also people going from say, Forest Avenue to Grasmere), and since they're running every 10 minutes, they'll get the bulk of the riders, so the locals should be alright running every 15 minutes.

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But the total number of S53s would be about 10 buses per hour (4 local + 6 limited). Right now, the total number of S53s is about 7-8 buses per hour, so that's 2-3 more buses right there to handle the crowding.

 

Like I said, the stops are spaced roughly 1/2 mile apart, so it's easy to walk to a limited stop to catch a bus. The limiteds would be carrying the long-distance commuters (obviously the Brooklyn riders, but also people going from say, Forest Avenue to Grasmere), and since they're running every 10 minutes, they'll get the bulk of the riders, so the locals should be alright running every 15 minutes.

 

You're forgetting that some of those stops are uphill though...

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You're forgetting that some of those stops are uphill though...

 

True, but the majority of riders currently get on at the major stops, which is why I feel that the locals don't need to run that frequently.

 

And which stops are on hills? I know along Broadway, the slope is downhill the further north you go, but it doesn't seem too steep to me: It seems fairly gradual.

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True, but the majority of riders currently get on at the major stops, which is why I feel that the locals don't need to run that frequently.

 

And which stops are on hills? I know along Broadway, the slope is downhill the further north you go, but it doesn't seem too steep to me: It seems fairly gradual.

 

lol... That is up hill for practically most of Broadway and then continues a bit on Clove... The thing is they don't look like hills because they're not steep in some cases, but they're a pain in the @ss to walk up. That's why I hate Forest Avenue where I live because it's also sloped. :tdown:

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