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What to do About L train over-crowding?


RoadifyDan

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Guest lance25

Really I wish you'd do some damn research before posting; or at the very least use some ******* common sense. Not only would that require digging up the entire neighborhood to add these "express" tracks since the Canarsie line runs under relatively minor streets, but your "express" service would only exacerbate the problem. Instead of running directly from Canarsie to 8 Av and vice-versa, you'd now have trains merging at Bedford and Jefferson Avs, thus slowing down the entire line and time savings will be ultimately lost.

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The immediate solution is to run more trains. If the MTA installed and maintains the new signals competently, 20 tph shouldn't be too hard to handle. You could theoretically push 24 tph, many terminals in Asia can handle that. And if it's still crowded (not like I can't find a seat, but like the passengers take more than 20 seconds to go in and out), you're going to have to build another line (unnecessary), get G riders to transfer at Court Square rather than Lorimer, or run bus service to Midtown via the tunnel (which isn't a bad idea actually).

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Agreed. That or extend the (L) to a multi-track station with tail tracks somewhere on the West Side that can turn trains quicker and more efficiently than 8th Avenue with its in-station bumper blocks. Every time I take the (L) to or from 8th Avenue, trains are backed up waiting to get into the station. Wasn't CBTC supposed to help reduce all the delays getting into and out of 8th?
Well, extension is certainly out of the question. They claimed my idea was not cost effective enough, and it is far easier to do (and cheaper) than a new construction.
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I know because of ENY and the rest of Eastern div, they are limited to 8-car trains... But let's face it, the (L) should really be a 10-car train. Rather than just add more trains, why not add on 2 extra cars to each train and allow more people to get on?

 

…because there's no platform space.

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I feel sorry for people who think that they're entitled to personal space on rush hour subway trains. Hipsters need to deal with their overcrowded (L) trains or find an alternative. I don't find overcrowding to be a big issue as one should EXPECT it when riding a heavily used subway system like this.

 

Especially now that the (M) has been rerouted to Midtown, there is an alternative to the overcrowding (take the B62 or another north-south route to connect with the (M))

 

I wonder how much of an impact the (M) has had on overcrowding on the (L). I'm sure there are some people (north of Wycoff Avenue) who have decided to stay on the (M) instead of transferring to the (L), and I'm sure people in the middle of the (L) and (J)(M)(Z) have opted for the (M) now that it serves Midtown.

 

Unfortunately, there isn't much that can be done. People should consider their transportation options before moving to a place. The same way Staten Islanders have to deal with the fact that there is no subway is the same way that people in Williamsburg and the UES have to deal with the fact that the subway lines are overcrowded. Of course, there isn't anything wrong with asking for service to be improved, but it is important to realize that something on the scale of reconfiguring the tracks is going to take a long time. Band-Aid solutions can be provided (a new bus route, ferry service, etc), but ultimately, they're going to have to deal with it.

 

Uh huh... Many of the new complexes that are being built are trying to come with this feature because you're going to have all of those old factories being turned into condos with loftstyle living and of course a huge spike in the population as more of them are completed. You're basically talking about blocks upon blocks of industrial space becoming residential and for that the (L) train will not be able to hold up.

 

Like I said the (L) is basically at capacity now and based on the population surge you can make the argument that folks along the (L) are underserved based upon the amount of trains to the amount of passengers, even though the frequencies on that line are excellent. I've taken the (L) over by Morgan Ave (I have friends that live over there) to go back to Manhattan and there are trains running every 15 - 20 minutes at 02:30 in the morning. Not bad at all.

 

All trains run every 20 minutes at night (between about 01:00 and 05:00)

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The last time I took the (L) was in the summer of 2001 when I was on vacation. I was waiting at Broadway Junction trying to get to DeKalb Avenue. I remember having to let one train pass because it was crowded. It sounds like things have gotten worse since then. At the rate things are going, maybe the MTA will have to resort to using train pushers like in Japan. Then comes the harassment and injury lawsuits.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STNWc7Rlpfk

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This was, at least to me an unintended consequence of CBTC.

 

What I would be looking at now is to re-build the demolished platforms at Atlantic Avenue (including the old Snediker Avenue one (some of that platform and the other one are still there for structural reasons) to allow for a new line that would start at the Rockaway Parkway (L) station and after Atlantic Avenue run via the Broadway line to Manhattan, either to Chambers, Broad or via 6th Avenue (and if the SAS ever gets that far, uptown via 2nd Avenue, maybe a new 70(K) line?). This would allow the (L) to be shortened to Atlantic Avenue (if there with usually a cross-platform transfer between lines) or Broadway Junction and better serve the much more heavily traveled portion of the (L) line (though late nights and possibly weekends, the (L) would still go to Rockaway Parkway when that station can serve two lines).

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They are gonna have to run more trains to curb this problem.

 

You can only run so many trains on the given amount of space.

I know because of ENY and the rest of Eastern div, they are limited to 8-car trains... But let's face it, the (L) should really be a 10-car train. Rather than just add more trains, why not add on 2 extra cars to each train and allow more people to get on?
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I don't understand all this complaining. I work at 28th Street on Seventh Avenue, and I have to take the (M) train there every now and then. I am actually stunned on how much room the (M) train has compared to the (F) & (L) trains. People should know that the (M) goes to Midtown now, but yet they still use the damn (L). This is not the (MTA)'s fault it's the riders fault. There should be an equal amount of people using the (M) & the (L), and not just the (L). I am not kidding. You might have to stand on the (L), but you can actually get a seat on the (M).

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Guest lance25

The (M) is all fine and dandy if you are near the Myrtle Avenue Line, i.e. Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs or maybe Halsey St or DeKalb Av. However, for those that aren't, the (M) isn't a good alternative because it takes them out of their way to get to their destination. Stations west of Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs will continue to be congested since the (L) is the fastest route into Manhattan and it would take too long to backtrack to the (M), regardless of how many seats are available.

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Guest lance25

@Wallyhorse: Your plan doesn't do jack shit to alleviate the congestion and overcrowding west of Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs, which is the problem on the Canarsie Line. All it does is switch the letter that would serve that portion of the line. I'm not even gonna touch your Second Avenue idea because it's simply a waste of time.

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Don't worry he makes proposals that won't come online until I am like 60-70. I mean the Second Avenue Subway might sound good on paper, but how long will it take? How much will be completed? How much will it cost? It's not a good idea to talk about it yet. I mean sure anyone would like to make all these proposals with the Second Avenue Line, but it won't come alive until the line comes alive.

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I don't understand all this complaining. I work at 28th Street on Seventh Avenue, and I have to take the (M) train there every now and then. I am actually stunned on how much room the (M) train has compared to the (F) & (L) trains. People should know that the (M) goes to Midtown now, but yet they still use the damn (L). This is not the (MTA)'s fault it's the riders fault. There should be an equal amount of people using the (M) & the (L), and not just the (L). I am not kidding. You might have to stand on the (L), but you can actually get a seat on the (M).

 

While the (M) does go to Midtown, it's both longer and less frequent than the (L). Plus the (L) makes a couple of connections the (M) doesn't, namely the (4)(5) and uptown (6)

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The MTA did remotely consider skip-stop service on the Canarsie Line in the early 90s. They even went so far as to put a gray ( K ) on the R110B's front in case they decided to implement ( K )/(L) skip-stop service.

 

The early 90s would have been the best time to implement ( K )/(L) skip-stop service. Back then, the (L) wasn't bursting at the seems like it is today, so losing half the rush hour service might not have been so bad. But now with almost every station from Myrtle/Wyckoff being heavily used, the only way you can do Canarsie skip-stop is to run more trains on the line overall. And the 8th Avenue and Rockaway Parkway terminals don't make that very easy.

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Guest lance25

In my opinion, skip-stop service won't work on Canarsie for much of the same reasons it didn't work on the Broadway-Seventh Avenue line towards the end of its run. Most of the stops westward of Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs have an equally high number of riders. Then, like T to Dyre Avenue stated, you have the terminal capacity issues with both Rockaway Pkwy and 8 Av both two track terminals with no tail tracks. No matter how many trains you run on the line, you're going to be held up by the terminals since the trains have to sit idle for a few minutes for crew breaks and what-not.

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@Wallyhorse: Your plan doesn't do jack shit to alleviate the congestion and overcrowding west of Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs, which is the problem on the Canarsie Line. All it does is switch the letter that would serve that portion of the line. I'm not even gonna touch your Second Avenue idea because it's simply a waste of time.

 

The purpose of my version would be to shorten the (L) to Atlantic Avenue or Broadway Junction from 8th Avenue in Manhattan to better serve Myrtle-Wyckoff and the rest of the (L) where more service is needed while at the same time creating a second line that would use the flyover and can run via Broadway Brooklyn to either lower Manhattan with the (J) or uptown, actually via 6th or 8th Avenue now.

 

It's obvious Myrtle-Wyckoff and points west need more frequent (L) service, so shortening the (L) to Broadway Junction or Atlantic Avenue while diverting most from Rockaway Parkway who want a one-seat ride to Manhattan via the Broadway Brooklyn line and either to lower Manhattan or uptown via 6th or 8th avenue might help in dealing with the overcrowding issue between Myrtle-Wyckoff and 8th Avenue. That's what I was looking at while at the same time looking at bringing the flyover back into regular service for the first time since 1968.

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@Wallyhorse: Your plan doesn't do jack shit to alleviate the congestion and overcrowding west of Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs, which is the problem on the Canarsie Line. All it does is switch the letter that would serve that portion of the line. I'm not even gonna touch your Second Avenue idea because it's simply a waste of time.

 

I generally need to take an advil pill everytime I see his posts.

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