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MTA Bus Operations: Fleet & Depots


East New York

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6 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

There needs to be a serious re-alignment with the Brooklyn Division. 

If I were a suitor doing this. I’d do the following: 

Flatbush: B2, B4, B7, B41, B44, B46, B47, B49.

East New York: B12, B14, B15, B17, B25, B42, B45, B60, B82, B83, B84, Q56 

Fresh Pond: B13, B26, B48, B52, B54, B57, Q24, Q54, Q55

Grand Avenue: B32, B38, B62, Q58, Q59

Ulmer: B1, B3, B6, B8, B16, B36, B64, 

Gleason: B9, B35, B43, B61, B63, B65, B67, B68, B69, B70

However, in my honest of truths. Brooklyn needs another depot and CMF facility along with Grand Avenue and East New York (current) and I’d put Spring Creek back in the Brooklyn Division. They have no business in the Queens Division with no Queens routes at all. 

the 13 at FP makes total sense these days. i personally look at the 13 & 57 at either GA or FP as interchangeable. the 48 at FP has always seemed a bit out of the way for me, but i understand the theology of the north brooklyn situation. personally i would have GA or FP have pull ins/pull outs from Grand Street on both the 43 & 48,which brings me to the 43. the 43 is one of those lines rumored (true or false, i can't say) for artics, which I'm assuming is the reason why it's returned to GA. JG from all accounts isn't receiving any more CNG artics, so a lines like the 43 would have to go elsewhere to receive artics. the Q24 to FP will not nor should ever happen. reliefs right in front of ENY along with interlined runs with the 56, 15, 12, 83 & 25 i don't see management destroying a perfect storm run-wise, so to speak. ask any operator at ENY and they'll tell you that the 45/65 terminal interline at Ralph Avenue definitely works, aside from the traffic issues around Flatbush Avenue for both lines due to Barclay's. i wouldn't break up that happy marriage. in a perfect world, SC would help solve quite a few issues in Brooklyn Division, specifically south brooklyn by joining NYCTA, but that may be a ways off, especially pertaining to lines like the 6 13 14 15 20 82 83 84 60, etc. not saying those lines should or would join SC, but i can see some split lines being drawn up for efficiency. and tbh, with all the cuts SC has endured over the past several years, they NEED the work

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10 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

The Q54 and B60 is an interesting interline to me. In a way I kinda wish Fresh Pond had the 60 years ago to really test out that interline. To your knowledge when you was in ENY what interlines did the 60 have? 

The Division is a zoo in its self. 

For FB’s chance back at the 47. Few things have to happen. 41, 44, and 46 all have to be artic routes. (No exceptions to that) Local and SBS. FLEET is another story. 

For ENY chance back at the 60. The 15 and 82 definitely need to be artic lines. I’d throw in the 25 for a part time basis to have the 60 back home in ENY. 

when i was in ENY, the 60 was gone already for a year and a half. and to my knowledge, there were no 60 interlines prior to leaving for GA. same thing for the B7. i was at ENY when the 7 was still there, and the 7 had no interlines (and going further back, no 7 interlines at FB either) and was moved to FP for that reason

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2 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

the 13 at FP makes total sense these days. i personally look at the 13 & 57 at either GA or FP as interchangeable. the 48 at FP has always seemed a bit out of the way for me, but i understand the theology of the north brooklyn situation. personally i would have GA or FP have pull ins/pull outs from Grand Street on both the 43 & 48,which brings me to the 43. the 43 is one of those lines rumored (true or false, i can't say) for artics, which I'm assuming is the reason why it's returned to GA. JG from all accounts isn't receiving any more CNG artics, so a lines like the 43 would have to go elsewhere to receive artics. the Q24 to FP will not nor should ever happen. reliefs right in front of ENY along with interlined runs with the 56, 15, 12, 83 & 25 i don't see management destroying a perfect storm run-wise, so to speak. ask any operator at ENY and they'll tell you that the 45/65 terminal interline at Ralph Avenue definitely works, aside from the traffic issues around Flatbush Avenue for both lines due to Barclay's. i wouldn't break up that happy marriage. in a perfect world, SC would help solve quite a few issues in Brooklyn Division, specifically south brooklyn by joining NYCTA, but that may be a ways off, especially pertaining to lines like the 6 13 14 15 20 82 83 84 60, etc. not saying those lines should or would join SC, but i can see some split lines being drawn up for efficiency. and tbh, with all the cuts SC has endured over the past several years, they NEED the work

As of yesterday the 43 has stayed home at Gleason. However, yes 43 has been rumored to move to Grand. It did a brief stint there until suffering big reliability issues. 

I don’t know if the 43 would fit for FB. Why I’m saying this is b/c in a perfect world you have the 41 which would be the perfect interline at Empire. However, the paddles are set for the Greenpoint portion of the route in a sense it should go to GA in the near future.  

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2 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

when i was in ENY, the 60 was gone already for a year and a half. and to my knowledge, there were no 60 interlines prior to leaving for GA. same thing for the B7. i was at ENY when the 7 was still there, and the 7 had no interlines (and going further back, no 7 interlines at FB either) and was moved to FP for that reason

Yes. 7 interlines with the 26 at Halsey. Which makes sense for Fresh Pond. 

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2 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

As of yesterday the 43 has stayed home at Gleason. However, yes 43 has been rumored to move to Grand. It did a brief stint there until suffering big reliability issues. 

I don’t know if the 43 would fit for FB. Why I’m saying this is b/c in a perfect world you have the 41 which would be the perfect interline at Empire. However, the paddles are set for the Greenpoint portion of the route in a sense it should go to GA in the near future.  

i would never suggest that the 43 should or would go to Flatbush Depot. and as far as the 43 goes... look, what management is attempting to do to TA Brooklyn (in my personal opinion is MaBSTOA tf outta TA local 100. meaning, that the way management cut runs throughout MaBSTOA over the years (no matter how significant or miniscule) is what they're aching to do to Brooklyn. those 80 plus runs on the Q58? if they could, they'd chop those paddles yesterday. but as I've stated in the past, this is a systematic thing that's happening, and as much as it may in some way benefit customers, local 100 will (possibly) be losing runs with artics showing up more throughout the boro. personal opinion, artics showing up on lines like the B35 has benefitted Church Avenue period. those cabs are taking a significant hit in patronage (although fare beating on the 35 has skyrocketed, but that'll be addressed) i see the same thing happening on the 41 or 46 if artics appear, which is what management wants. artics packed from front line to back door at 12 minute headways off peak. my whole position in all this is that artics showing up on lines (and getting back on point, depots and the lines they operate/control) needs to make logistical/logical sense. there'd better be a method to the madness. 

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40 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i would never suggest that the 43 should or would go to Flatbush Depot. and as far as the 43 goes... look, what management is attempting to do to TA Brooklyn (in my personal opinion is MaBSTOA tf outta TA local 100. meaning, that the way management cut runs throughout MaBSTOA over the years (no matter how significant or miniscule) is what they're aching to do to Brooklyn. those 80 plus runs on the Q58? if they could, they'd chop those paddles yesterday. but as I've stated in the past, this is a systematic thing that's happening, and as much as it may in some way benefit customers, local 100 will (possibly) be losing runs with artics showing up more throughout the boro. personal opinion, artics showing up on lines like the B35 has benefitted Church Avenue period. those cabs are taking a significant hit in patronage (although fare beating on the 35 has skyrocketed, but that'll be addressed) i see the same thing happening on the 41 or 46 if artics appear, which is what management wants. artics packed from front line to back door at 12 minute headways off peak. my whole position in all this is that artics showing up on lines (and getting back on point, depots and the lines they operate/control) needs to make logistical/logical sense. there'd better be a method to the madness. 

You have an excellent point there. I will tell you right now. The 35 has gotten a significant increase since those artics came on the line. Cabbies are non-existence throughout the day. However, at night some are fighting with the buses for position. 

They way MaBSOTA operates and the chopping down on the paddles is a all time high especially with depots like MJQ, TU/100th, and MCH (TA) with their artic lines in Manhattan. Like you. I could see that happening at Flatbush, East New York and especially Grand Avenue. (Something they do well at Grand is run buses very late) 

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1 hour ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i would never suggest that the 43 should or would go to Flatbush Depot. and as far as the 43 goes... look, what management is attempting to do to TA Brooklyn (in my personal opinion is MaBSTOA tf outta TA local 100. meaning, that the way management cut runs throughout MaBSTOA over the years (no matter how significant or miniscule) is what they're aching to do to Brooklyn. those 80 plus runs on the Q58? if they could, they'd chop those paddles yesterday. but as I've stated in the past, this is a systematic thing that's happening, and as much as it may in some way benefit customers, local 100 will (possibly) be losing runs with artics showing up more throughout the boro. personal opinion, artics showing up on lines like the B35 has benefitted Church Avenue period. those cabs are taking a significant hit in patronage (although fare beating on the 35 has skyrocketed, but that'll be addressed) i see the same thing happening on the 41 or 46 if artics appear, which is what management wants. artics packed from front line to back door at 12 minute headways off peak. my whole position in all this is that artics showing up on lines (and getting back on point, depots and the lines they operate/control) needs to make logistical/logical sense. there'd better be a method to the madness. 

I always stated FB will be a future artic fleet bus depot routes. Majority of the routes can handle artic buses except for the B2 and B31 due to the last stop at kingshwy station.

I can smell the 41 turning into artic when they enroll the sbs in the nearby future.

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1 hour ago, DueceDrives said:

I always stated FB will be a future artic fleet bus depot routes. Majority of the routes can handle artic buses except for the B2 and B31 due to the last stop at kingshwy station.

I can smell the 41 turning into artic when they enroll the sbs in the nearby future.

I feel that Flatbush would be perfect to be an artic Depot. It handles one of the heavier lines in Brooklyn and often times people get frustrated with over crowded buses. Taking the 41 when I was in school I saw people just hop in dollar vans and such because it was just too crowded and especially for the Bergen beach branch. 

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1 hour ago, DueceDrives said:

I always stated FB will be a future artic fleet bus depot routes. Majority of the routes can handle artic buses except for the B2 and B31 due to the last stop at kingshwy station.

I can smell the 41 turning into artic when they enroll the sbs in the nearby future.

 

40 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I feel that Flatbush would be perfect to be an artic Depot. It handles one of the heavier lines in Brooklyn and often times people get frustrated with over crowded buses. Taking the 41 when I was in school I saw people just hop in dollar vans and such because it was just too crowded and especially for the Bergen beach branch. 

I agree with both of you, especially since there is crowding not only on the B41, but on the B46 SBS. In fact, what should happen is that the B41, B44 Local, and both the B46 local and SBS should be fully articulated in the future to relieve the crowds

Speaking of FB, what is the maximum number of buses that the Flatbush Depot is capable of housing?

Edited by JeremiahC99
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44 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

I agree with both of you, especially since there is crowding not only on the B41, but on the B46 SBS. In fact, what should happen is that the B41, B44 Local, and both the B46 local and SBS should be fully articulated in the future to relieve the crowds

Speaking of FB, what is the maximum number of buses that the Flatbush Depot is capable of housing?

 Im not sure the exact number but I will find out when I return back to work after my RDO unless EastNewYork knows the answer. But I know at night we have buses also parked outside on Flatbush Ave and on Utica Ave side.

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This is how it should be

 

ENY B12,14,15,17,25,42,45,60,65,82,83,84 Q56

FP B7,13,20,26,52,54,57,Q24 ,Q55

FB B1,2,31,41,44,46,49

JG B4,8,9,11,16,35,37,43,48,61,63,67,68,69,70

GA B24,32,38,39,47,62,Q54,58,59

UP B3,6,36,64,74,X27,28,37,38

Edited by Navigator81
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12 hours ago, DueceDrives said:

I always stated FB will be a future artic fleet bus depot routes. Majority of the routes can handle artic buses except for the B2 and B31 due to the last stop at kingshwy station.

I can smell the 41 turning into artic when they enroll the sbs in the nearby future.

I've always felt (and in recent years seen signs of this via the 41 run board specifically) that management's had a hard on so to speak for turning Flatbush into another 100 street depot. and like the 35, I can see that those beat up jitney dollar vans days are numbered if/when artics show up on Flatbush (and utica also) but as far as priorities go, I'm of a belief that the B38/Q58 Grand Avenue moves means artics go there well before they show up on the 41. as far as the rest of Brooklyn Division goes, there are pockets of runs/lines that will eventually see the 2 for 3 deal (2 artics for every 3 standards) in mt arguments, i always turn to bronx division as a clear cut example. there are so many parallels that can be drawn line/run-wise and patronage wise between bronx & brooklyn. 

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1 hour ago, Just New York said:

ENY - B12, 14, 15, 17, 25, 42, 45, 60, 65, 82, 83, 84, Q24, 56

FB - B2, 9, 31, 36(UP), 41, 44, 46, 47, 49

JG - B4, 8, 11, 16, 35, 37, 43, 48, 61, 63, 67, 69, 70

FP - B7, 13, 20, 26, 52, 54, 57, Q55, 58

GA - B24, 32, 38, 39, 62, Q54, 59

UP- B1, 3, 6, 36(FB), 64, 68 74, X27, 28, 37, 38

the 36 at FB (or at least splitting it with UP) is a very interesting thought. someone also suggested the B4 at FB (or at least splitting it by sending part of the run board back to UP) either way, we're getting into fantasy land so to speak and as I've stated, the logistics of actual run times, pull outs/pull ins gets deeper than just a strike of a pen to send lines here & there just for the sake of restructuring a flawed division (personal opinion)

by the way, i LOVE the ideas of the 9 at FB and the Q54 at GA (i think FP doesn't need the headache anymore, but i digress) 

Edited by EastFlatbushLarry
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10 hours ago, DueceDrives said:

 Im not sure the exact number but I will find out when I return back to work after my RDO unless EastNewYork knows the answer. But I know at night we have buses also parked outside on Flatbush Ave and on Utica Ave side.

I've heard 250 in the past (i could be wrong) but that was before artics. tbh i don't understand why so many buses are still parked outside by burger king/petco/walgreens/rite aid. they talked about using the avenue n employee lot in the past, yet have only parked oos buses back there 3 or 4 at a time

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1 hour ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

the 36 at FB (or at least splitting it with UP) is a very interesting thought. someone also suggested the B4 at FB (or at least splitting it by sending part of the run board back to UP) either way, we're getting into fantasy land so to speak and as I've stated, the logistics of actual run times, pull outs/pull ins gets deeper than just a strike of a pen to send lines here & there just for the sake of restructuring a flawed division (personal opinion)

by the way, i LOVE the ideas of the 9 at FB and the Q54 at GA (i think FP doesn't need the headache anymore, but i digress) 

FB can handle all KP routes I believe you can streamline that whole terminal. GA does OK with WPB routes and that helps keep DH times down FP not as close to WBP or Jamaica as they would like it will help the route. UP does OK but that sheepshead DH is a killer rush hour for the 36 That where FB comes in.

Edited by Just New York
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5 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

I've always felt (and in recent years seen signs of this via the 41 run board specifically) that management's had a hard on so to speak for turning Flatbush into another 100 street depot. and like the 35, I can see that those beat up jitney dollar vans days are numbered if/when artics show up on Flatbush (and utica also) but as far as priorities go, I'm of a belief that the B38/Q58 Grand Avenue moves means artics go there well before they show up on the 41. as far as the rest of Brooklyn Division goes, there are pockets of runs/lines that will eventually see the 2 for 3 deal (2 artics for every 3 standards) in mt arguments, i always turn to bronx division as a clear cut example. there are so many parallels that can be drawn line/run-wise and patronage wise between bronx & brooklyn. 

I don’t know much about ridership in the Bronx but I do know that Brooklyn has needed artics on some of its routes way before the Bronx did. I don’t think Brooklyn will have a lot of it’s routes converted into artics I think they’re going to put them on routes where it’s really needed. We already know the 46 is due soon when FB get thier new XD60s and I believe the B82 will get them after in 2020. I don’t know if all those routes in the Bronx needed artics. They converted like three routes already in a short time. 

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5 hours ago, Just New York said:

FB can handle all KP routes I believe you can streamline that whole terminal. GA does OK with WPB routes and that helps keep DH times down FP not as close to WBP or Jamaica as they would like it will help the route. UP does OK but that sheepshead DH is a killer rush hour for the 36 That where FB comes in.

Here’s my justification on this. To me I’ve always believed that the 36 should be at FB simply b/c of two things. 1) The deadhead from depot to Nostrand is about 10-15 mins via Avenue U and 2) Direct interline with the 44. Also, I’d possibly extend to Kings Plaza. However, the way the paddle is set up it’s set for Coney Island and thus better for Ulmer Park. 

8 hours ago, Just New York said:

ENY - B12, 14, 15, 17, 25, 42, 45, 60, 65, 82, 83, 84, Q24, 56

FB - B2, 9, 31, 36(UP), 41, 44, 46, 47, 49

JG - B4, 8, 11, 16, 35, 37, 43, 48, 61, 63, 67, 69, 70

FP - B7, 13, 20, 26, 52, 54, 57, Q55, 58

GA - B24, 32, 38, 39, 62, Q54, 59

UP- B1, 3, 6, 36(FB), 64, 68 74, X27, 28, 37, 38

 The 9 to FB should of been years ago. However, I also think the 4 should be FB also b/c of the easy deadhead to Knapp Street. Again, the way the paddles are set up it’s set up for the Bay Ridge portion of the route. 

Interesting thought: Many moons ago there was talk about FB moving to Floyd Bennett Field since they have adequate space and possibly a CFM.  Brooklyn needs another depot. The Division is a complete zoo. Even re-constructing Ulmer Park (I believe on the next Capital Plan) the Division will get worse before it gets better. 

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11 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Here’s my justification on this. To me I’ve always believed that the 36 should be at FB simply b/c of two things. 1) The deadhead from depot to Nostrand is about 10-15 mins via Avenue U and 2) Direct interline with the 44. Also, I’d possibly extend to Kings Plaza. However, the way the paddle is set up it’s set for Coney Island and thus better for Ulmer Park. 

 The 9 to FB should of been years ago. However, I also think the 4 should be FB also b/c of the easy deadhead to Knapp Street. Again, the way the paddles are set up it’s set up for the Bay Ridge portion of the route. 

Interesting thought: Many moons ago there was talk about FB moving to Floyd Bennett Field since they have adequate space and possibly a CFM.  Brooklyn needs another depot. The Division is a complete zoo. Even re-constructing Ulmer Park (I believe on the next Capital Plan) the Division will get worse before it gets better. 

Logistically where would a new one even be located and what routes should it handle? Brooklyn doesn’t really have much space like it did 20 years ago for a newer depot. If they were to build one in the spring creek area by gateway then I I guess but there’s two depots there, spring creek and East New York. I would say reconstructing the depots to handle more buses will be beneficial. Also UP is being reconstructed? 

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7 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

I've always felt (and in recent years seen signs of this via the 41 run board specifically) that management's had a hard on so to speak for turning Flatbush into another 100 street depot. and like the 35, I can see that those beat up jitney dollar vans days are numbered if/when artics show up on Flatbush (and utica also) but as far as priorities go, I'm of a belief that the B38/Q58 Grand Avenue moves means artics go there well before they show up on the 41. as far as the rest of Brooklyn Division goes, there are pockets of runs/lines that will eventually see the 2 for 3 deal (2 artics for every 3 standards) in mt arguments, i always turn to bronx division as a clear cut example. there are so many parallels that can be drawn line/run-wise and patronage wise between bronx & brooklyn. 

It took so long for the Brooklyn Division to even get on board with artics. GA & JG will ultimately become artic depots before ENY & FB. As the Division as a whole is introduced to more artics definitely expect some routes to receive the conversion. 

The Bronx Division is a definitely that example with the most recent West Farms with Bx6 and Bx36 artic conversions. Almost all of Gun Hill routes are artic routes and some for Kingsbridge. 

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11 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Logistically where would a new one even be located and what routes should it handle? Brooklyn doesn’t really have much space like it did 20 years ago for a newer depot. If they were to build one in the spring creek area by gateway then I I guess but there’s two depots there, spring creek and East New York. I would say reconstructing the depots to handle more buses will be beneficial. Also UP is being reconstructed? 

There was talk about a re-construction for Ulmer Park. I mean if that happens it helps out the Division a lot. However, again the TA is not the best with real estate acquisitions.

They had the perfect opportunity to get the facility that UPS is occupying on Springfield Boulevard and they blew that (many moons ago). That would of ease a lot in the Queens Division. 

PS: Yes 2 depots East New York and Spring Creek. However, the (MTA) decided Spring Creek didn’t belong in the Brooklyn Division therefore its not counted as depot for Brooklyn meanwhile operating Brooklyn routes. 

Edited by Future ENY OP
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43 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Here’s my justification on this. To me I’ve always believed that the 36 should be at FB simply b/c of two things. 1) The deadhead from depot to Nostrand is about 10-15 mins via Avenue U and 2) Direct interline with the 44. Also, I’d possibly extend to Kings Plaza. However, the way the paddle is set up it’s set for Coney Island and thus better for Ulmer Park. 

 The 9 to FB should of been years ago. However, I also think the 4 should be FB also b/c of the easy deadhead to Knapp Street. Again, the way the paddles are set up it’s set up for the Bay Ridge portion of the route. 

Interesting thought: Many moons ago there was talk about FB moving to Floyd Bennett Field since they have adequate space and possibly a CFM.  Brooklyn needs another depot. The Division is a complete zoo. Even re-constructing Ulmer Park (I believe on the next Capital Plan) the Division will get worse before it gets better. 

TBH kings Plaza can’t handle another buses route. 80% of the time with the exception after Business hours, too many buses layover and theres barely space. So sending the 36 would be no point when the B3 already head towards that direction via Avenue U. 

FB building needs major repairs and upgrades. When it rains heavy the Filmore side stairwell leaking pretty heavy.

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4 hours ago, DueceDrives said:

TBH kings Plaza can’t handle another buses route. 80% of the time with the exception after Business hours, too many buses layover and theres barely space. So sending the 36 would be no point when the B3 already head towards that direction via Avenue U. 

FB building needs major repairs and upgrades. When it rains heavy the Filmore side stairwell leaking pretty heavy.

The 36 is good defiantly no space for the 36, 100 should be at FB also but the space is limited and the MTA Bus thing. The ENY\SC situation can be so much better there is space for a least 2 to 3 more local routes.

SC - B13, 14, 84, 103, Q7, 8, BM1-4

Edited by Just New York
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43 minutes ago, Just New York said:

SC - B13, 14, 84, 103, Q7, 8, BM1-4

That’s a nice line up for them. However, bring SC back to the Brooklyn Division for that to happen. Also, the 84 should of been for Spring Creek from the jump. However, they have space issues for any other routes to come in. 

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