MTA Bus Operations: Fleet & Depots

[MTABusFan925]

Why doesn't Yukon wrap some LFS's to do the S-79 SBS? That will give those NG's a break, where they can either gtfo of SI, or be re-assigned to local routes in SI.

Edited May 31, 2018 by MTABusFan925

[Jdog14]

19 minutes ago, MTABusFan925 said:

Why doesn't Yukon wrap some LFS's to do the S-79 SBS? That will give those NG's a break, where they can either gtfo of SI, or be re-assigned to local routes in SI.

 

Because the MTA now wants a brand new fleet of buses running SBS routes. Its why every pre 2016 bus is being unwrapped and replaced with new buses in the new gold, blue sky blue sbs scheme. 

[T J Trainman]

5517 to MJQ, 7622, and 7634 to FLA.

[BreeddekalbL]

Any of the buses have power steering? And what is fanning the break?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

17 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

IIRC, the new depot is going to be across the street from the old. So it shouldn't close for the construction.

I may be wrong, so I'm waiting for the correction lol

 

I thought Jamaica was going to be rebuilt on site (which was why MTA bought the surrounding properties along Merrick Blvd and South Road).

[Future ENY OP]

8 hours ago, Jdog14 said:

 

Because the MTA now wants a brand new fleet of buses running SBS routes. Its why every pre 2016 bus is being unwrapped and replaced with new buses in the new gold, blue sky blue sbs scheme. 

However, Staten Island is not due for new buses until November/December at the earliest. It would be funny if the  can accelerate this order a bit early so that Staten Island can have some new fleet. 

[East New York]

On 5/29/2018 at 6:14 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

The assignments of the express buses also have other factors taken into account. For one: tunnel clearance. Keep in mind that if the DD buses are assigned to Staten Island, they can only take one route into Manhattan: via NJ and Lincoln Tunnel. They can not fit under the Battery Tunnel. In addition, only Charleston can house DD buses due to clearance, so assignments can be limited.

The AD’s can actually be assigned to Eastchester, Charleston, or Yonkers.

On 5/29/2018 at 6:17 PM, Lil 57 said:

Mabye they can have routes go over the Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg or Queensburo bridges to have the DD's

In addition to what the others mentioned about traffic, buses are not allowed on the Brooklyn Bridge.

On 5/29/2018 at 7:14 PM, Brillant93 said:

Nice to hear the B46 sbs is becoming artic. It should have been a long time ago. 

I've been snooping around the net these past few weeks for more info about the B82 sbs and it looks like its unconfirmed that it will launch either later this year or early 2019. They are working with the community on the controversial segment from Ocean avenue to bay parkway. Someone asked Byford or one of the MTA officials at the last L train shutdown meeting. So I'm guessing its either going to be rerouted or just no bus lanes. But construction for the street designs in the other areas are still ongoing. 

Is there anything on the 4700s XD60 coming to Brooklyn or are they still in the Bronx for the time being? 

I actually mentioned this a few months ago. There’s no longer a need for the 4700’s to go to Brooklyn, and there would be nowhere for them to go other than the B15. Since EN won’t be fully articulated ready for a while that’s not happening. I also mentioned then that the LFSA fleet would be converted to brand new XD60’s, which is now confirmed.

On 5/29/2018 at 10:50 PM, MHV184 said:

Is Manhattanville Depot getting any new buses??

 

I ask you guys to please check the first page of this thread for fleet and depot updates before you ask any questions.

Manhattanville is getting hybrids. The projected production fleet is 9510-9784. Preliminary plans call for the rest to go to Brooklyn and other Manhattan depots. I am also being told the final fleet replace fleet replacements for the S79+ are not set in stone and could in fact end up being XDE40’s. QV could end up in the mix with them as well. However, right now only Manhattanville and Grand are confirmed.

 

19 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Something that needs to be on future orders is electronic run consoles for Local and Express buses. With exception to the Prevosts they come by default.  

They don’t actually come on the Prevost by default. MTA can spec whichever model they want. They went with these because of the deal they got on them as well as to evaluate them in service. Remember MTA now puts any new bus, component, acessory or subsystem through a qualification program. They prefer the old run box as They don’t ever have to worry about it breaking down or malfunctioning.

19 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

IIRC, the new depot is going to be across the street from the old. So it shouldn't close for the construction.

I may be wrong, so I'm waiting for the correction lol

No it’s going to be in the same location.

18 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

@East New York: Thank you for the updates. Patience is always key to this line of business as things change.

2) However, pretty excited that we are possibly getting the D45CRT LE, hopefully can throw in some D4500CT's 2018/2019 with the order.

4) XE60 artic would be something great for these NYC streets.

5) XDE60 artic i could only guess that's going to Manhattan

7) You did mention about the B46 going artic and its definitely about time that it does.

8.)B82SBS+ is pretty interesting  with some of the construction that has gone on in Canarsie and Starrett City already. Hopefully a restructure of the route can get things moving in the right direction.

10) Hopefully this re-design project could do alot of things. I would like and to take a few pages from  Philly, Baltimore and DC and create a numbering scheme, also address issues especially with the outerboroughs that require mostly with Über, Lyft, via transportation, black car, plus address and introduce intraborough services with service to Long Island (Nassau) and Lower Westchester  providing if there's adequate market.

 

I’m about 95% sure our classic D-Series day are over at this point. The XDE60’s will be assigned to Quill for the M14+. As far as the B46+, I am being told it will be a mixed fleet with only about 13 artics. The line is still under evaluation, and an addition or subtraction will be made when the time comes. 

18 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i could be mistaken, but i believe that the digital run boxes work the Same way that the fareboxes work with the destination sign display: all info is logged into the farebox and thusly is displayed on the destination sign & runbox. for awhile (and i believe currently with Bus Company) the farebox & destination sign were separately logged into. so as i said, i believe a new system has to be in place for the runbox, farebox & destination sign to be connected.

The digital run boxes can be operated by the Desination sign ODK or the farebox actually. Theoretically any bus in the fleet can be retrofitted with them and it could be operated by the destination sign ODK or the farebox. It’s activated (when the option is available) by pressing the “Route” button, entering the run number and hitting enter. 

11 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

The only time those NG's made it to mainland was sometime in 2013 or 2014 before the S79 had it's SBS and Yukon sent down 5 buses to FB on loan for a week. After that they were ghost. FB never bother swapping decals since they were on loan.. This time these buses should head to Fresh Pond, Flatbush.

This is something I need to put in random thoughts:  Why don't East New York and Ulmer Park have NG's?

This dates all the way back, but it’s very true (not a rumor) that Brooklyn division as a whole didn’t want anything to do with Orion’s of any type. EN, FB, and UP all tested the OG, and none of them wanted any. Even right now EN can’t wait to get rid of the OG’s. Eventually they were forced to get them anyway, and UP remained all RTS as they also rejected the NG. Flatbush on the other hand was willing to take them as many of the rookie drivers (which FB had a lot of at the time) usually tend to hate the RTS because they are not as easy to operate as the newer and lighter low floor equipment. For example, only veterans are comfortable taking an RTS out on the B13 because they don’t have as tight a turning radius as any of the other buses. 

11 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

that would solve one of the greatest mysteries in Brooklyn Division. the story i heard over the years is that originally Flatbush, East NY & Ulmer Park wanted no part of the NG order in the first place... but DOB forced them down FB's throat. also, it's been said that if Grand Avenue never was built/never opened, Ulmer Park would've had NG's forced on them too. gotta keep in mind that those 3 depots (FB, EN & UP) were RTS heavy in 2008, aside from the 67xx/68xx OG's at East NY, which they didn't want them, allegedly. i do recall an NG being at East NY Depot (i can't recall the fleet number, when exactly it was there or for how long) and i remember hearing it did a trip on the B15 to & from the Postal Facility (i could be misinformed) 

You are 100% correct. What you heard was true, and yes EN rejected the NG as well. But one of the reasons is because they were hoping for the RTS low floors which many do not know tested out of ENY on a stealth mode demo run. MTA had previously had a fall out with Nova over the RTS Hybrid order, and subsequently said they were done with them. TA only agreed to test the low floor because it was presented by Millennium, which would eventually be on the agenda to be awarded an order for 90 test buses. But MTA’s requirement that they produce 8 pilots, then 22 first run production buses followed by a second run of 60 put a nail in that coffin. 

10 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i don't know about all that. i highly doubt that DOB wanted every brooklyn division depot possessing cng tanks. and by the way, just based on the way the museum command cng rts was treated over the last few years, i highly doubt DOB was a fan of them. also, when MTA did have cng rts's, they promptly sold them to Command Bus Company, so i don't buy this theory 

He was likely just referring to Gleason, which wanted the RTS CNG over the Orion V. The issue with the RTS CNG is that it just costed too much. The RTS was already notoriously the most expensive bus you could get, and that cost was further driven up by CNG which costed more back then than it does now in comparison to diesel buses. 

6 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Any of the buses have power steering? And what is fanning the break?

All the buses in the active fleet have power steering.......  That’s been a standard feature in every vehicle in America since before you were born I’m sure lol.

Fanning the “Brake” is the the manner in which the break is repeatedly depressed, which builds and releases pressure in the air chamber and increases stopping power. If the brakes are not calibrated correctly or are wearing down the first tine is it takes a lot more pressure to stop the bus.

[Ty24]

1 hour ago, East New York said:

 

This dates all the way back, but it’s very true (not a rumor) that Brooklyn division as a whole didn’t want anything to do with Orion’s of any type. EN, FB, and UP all tested the OG, and none of them wanted any. Even right now EN can’t wait to get rid of the OG’s. Eventually they were forced to get them anyway, and UP remained all RTS as they also rejected the NG. Flatbush on the other hand was willing to take them as many of the rookie drivers (which FB had a lot of at the time) usually tend to hate the RTS because they are not as easy to operate as the newer and lighter low floor equipment. For example, only veterans are comfortable taking an RTS out on the B13 because they don’t have as tight a turning radius as any of the other buses. 

How about ENY send over all of there OGs to QV? lol I wouldn’t mind them. I enjoy them especially the 6800s.. Since we already have 6845-6852, 6854-6905. Why not inherent, 6790-6843, along with the earlier 6589-6624. They can have 8000-8058, 8470-8503. Lol 

Question: Is there a reason why QV can't be an all hybrid depot like Manhattanville?

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Ty24

[Future ENY OP]

28 minutes ago, Ty24 said:

How about ENY send over all of there OGs to QV? lol I wouldn’t mind them. I enjoy them especially the 6800s.. Since we already have 6845-6852, 6854-6905. Why not inherent, 6790-6843, along with the earlier 6589-6624. They can have 8000-8058, 8470-8503. Lol 

Question: Is there a reason why QV can't be an all hybrid depot like Manhattanville?

 

How about  does not want LFS in Brooklyn b/c of maintenance. None of the Brooklyn maintenance facilities can’t do extensive LFS work. They can do some but not all work. Extensive work is done at Zerega. 

Unless  decides to built another Maintenance facility in Brooklyn that can house NOVAS than its all good. 

[XBht26]

As an operator myself, I wonder why we can't pick which buses to have in the depot. We are the ones behind the wheel. Is it maintenance that decides the fleet or the higher ups?

[Express Bus Operator]

3 minutes ago, XBht26 said:

As an operator myself, I wonder why we can't pick which buses to have in the depot. We are the ones behind the wheel. Is it maintenance that decides the fleet or the higher ups?

Thats the same thing I have been preeching about. They should have operators vote or voice their opinions on the buses their depot cureent fleet. We’re the one operating these buses.

[Future ENY OP]

5 minutes ago, XBht26 said:

As an operator myself, I wonder why we can't pick which buses to have in the depot. We are the ones behind the wheel. Is it maintenance that decides the fleet or the higher ups?

 

Just now, DueceDrives said:

Thats the same thing I have been preeching about. They should have operators vote or voice their opinions on the buses their depot cureent fleet. We’re the one operating these buses.

.... I totally agree with both of you guys. Drivers and maintenance should definitely have a say to where buses should go. I could be wrong but I believe the higher ups have the final say is to where fleets end up. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

39 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Drivers and maintenance should definitely have a say to where buses should go. 

 

What if a batch of 30 buses is up for grabs and drivers at multiple depots want it? Which depot gets absolute priority over all others?

[Around the Horn]

27 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

What if a batch of 30 buses is up for grabs and drivers at multiple depots want it? Which depot gets absolute priority over all others?

I highly doubt MTA would ever order a batch of only 30 buses. I don't think that would ever be an issue. Everything now is trending upward in large batches of hundreds of buses.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I highly doubt MTA would ever order a batch of only 30 buses. I don't think that would ever be an issue. Everything now is trending upward in large batches of hundreds of buses.

They have in the past ordered small batches, and given the trend towards artics to consolidate the number of buses needed, anything is possible.

[Orion6025]

I never got hybrids at Queens Village. The majority of the routes can get long-ish runs, there isn't any significant traffic like Manhattan. Does QV save lots of fuel, or is there something I'm missing? These hybrids would be better off converting MQ to 100% 40 foot hybrid operation.

The lack of hybrid arctics also is confusing to me. Like, those routes run through very dense and crowded areas, naturally they are going to be slow routes. Yet we still don't have XDE60 not LFS-A HEV which would be perfect for the crosstowns for instance.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Orion6025

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I highly doubt MTA would ever order a batch of only 30 buses. I don't think that would ever be an issue. Everything now is trending upward in large batches of hundreds of buses.

I should have clarified that the batch would be a subset of a larger order. Let's say that an order of 300 buses is divided into 10 batches of 30 each. Which depots would get absolute priority in requesting/receiving a given batch? 

[Around the Horn]

34 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

I should have clarified that the batch would be a subset of a larger order. Let's say that an order of 300 buses is divided into 10 batches of 30 each. Which depots would get absolute priority in requesting/receiving a given batch? 

Age of current fleet from oldest to newest. At least that's how I'd do it.

[Express Bus Operator]

5 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Age of current fleet from oldest to newest. At least that's how I'd do it.

 

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They have in the past ordered small batches, and given the trend towards artics to consolidate the number of buses needed, anything is possible.

I don’t know if they function the same, but when I use to be a Road Supervisor for Access A Ride, I remember sometimes I use to head to the HQ located at Long Island city to see the Supt and Executive VP who managed the fleets operation to pick up paper works for vehicles that were either going to be transported to the carrier or returning documents, and I remember they made decision to which carrier gets what vehicle or transfer based on the carrier needs, maintenance records or less accidents. If the career had a lack of maintenance or the carrier is known to have high percentage of accidents, they wouldn’t receive any new vehicles unless the carrier was in need for new vehicles. Maybe the big buses sides probably operates the same.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, XBht26 said:

As an operator myself, I wonder why we can't pick which buses to have in the depot. We are the ones behind the wheel. Is it maintenance that decides the fleet or the higher ups?

 

5 hours ago, DueceDrives said:

Thats the same thing I have been preeching about. They should have operators vote or voice their opinions on the buses their depot cureent fleet. We’re the one operating these buses.

You guys are paid good money so you should be able to drive anything they give you as long as you're trained on it.  The  brass decide where buses go and I agree with that.  If B/Os had the decision to pick which buses went where, the passengers would suffer the most since maintenance varies from depot to depot.  Just imagine Ulmer Park with nothing but those old beat up RTS buses with no damn AC, but let's have them there because the B/Os love driving those things even though they're inefficient from an operations standpoint and not passenger friendly, especially for the disabled and physically challenged.  I'll keep saying it.  Relics or not, those RTS buses need to go.  Well past their time... Passengers will have to endure another hot summer with those buses rolling around with no AC, paying $2.75 for them to boot.

Additionally the  cares most about mileage so buses are moved around based off of that as well, though there does appear to be some politics involved on which depot gets what and who yells the loudest which is absurd IMO.  It's clear based on how buses are being assigned that they do have some sort of organization to the madness.  This should allow for less "emergencies" where depots are in desperate need and have to borrow buses from other depots to make service.  The way they've been doing it with Staten Island getting their batch of new buses makes more sense.  The only thing I'm not wild about is how they keep replacing the SBS fleet and unwrapping buses and throwing them on the local lines as hand-me-downs.  The new fleet should be spread around accordingly so that paying passengers can ride in comfort.  Without passengers there's no depot, which currently should be the focus given how horrendous bus ridership has become.

I also would like them to get maintenance more parallel across the board so that certain depots aren't always in need because they run their buses into the ground (e.g. Yukon Depot, Gunhill and few others that do a horrendous job with maintenance).

Edited May 31, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[EastFlatbushLarry]

3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I highly doubt MTA would ever order a batch of only 30 buses. I don't think that would ever be an issue. Everything now is trending upward in large batches of hundreds of buses.

hypothetically speaking, if only 30 RTS's are available in the system, and say, La Guardia, JFK, Eastchester, Ulmer Park, Quill, East NY and Jamaica all want part of the 30, who gets what? we all know certain depots have preference over others, but if left up to bus operators, maintainers/mechanics (transportation versus maintenance departments) it could get ugly. i personally feel that if the entire system is getting a makeover top to bottom,  then yes, the employees (the union representation) who are responsible for keeping the system moving should have a say in equipment in the depot, but there would need to be guidelines for things to be handled obviously. there shouldn't be a battle royale within the depot of maintainers/mechanics versus bus operators (crabs in a barrel politics) 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

also

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

You guys are paid good money so you should be able to drive anything they give you as long as you're trained on it.  The  brass decide where buses go and I agree with that.  If B/Os had the decision to pick which buses went where, the passengers would suffer the most since maintenance varies from depot to depot.  Just imagine Ulmer Park with nothing but those old beat up RTS buses with no damn AC, but let's have them there because the B/Os love driving those things even though they're inefficient from an operations standpoint and not passenger friendly, especially for the disabled and physically challenged.

Additionally the  cares most about mileage so buses are moved around based off of that as well.  It's clear based on how buses are being assigned that they do have some sort of organization to the madness.  This should allow for less "emergencies" where depots are in desperate need and have to borrow buses from other depots to make service.  The way they've been doing it with Staten Island getting their batch of new buses makes more sense.  The only thing I'm not wild about is how they keep replaced the SBS fleet and unwrapping buses and throwing them on the local lines as hand-me-downs.  The new fleet should be spread around accordingly so that paying passengers can ride in comfort.  Without passengers there's no depot, which currently should be the focus given  how horrendous bus ridership has become.

Agreed, i wouldn't work in a depot that had only shitty RTS's/d60hf's or the break down numbers were high. there would obviously need to be a balance. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

also

Agreed, i wouldn't work in a depot that had only shitty RTS's/d60hf's or the break down numbers were high. there would obviously need to be a balance. 

I think by 2020, we should really see the (NYCT and Bus) finally have fleet that is relatively similar across the board. It's been a long, painful process but it seems to be happening.  Meanwhile, there are some instances where communities do influence which depot gets what fleet, like the UES.  They raised hell about missing and late buses and that helped them get a piece of that artic order for Tuskegee Depot.

[R179 8258]

6 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

How about  does not want LFS in Brooklyn b/c of maintenance. None of the Brooklyn maintenance facilities can’t do extensive LFS work. They can do some but not all work. Extensive work is done at Zerega. 

Unless  decides to built another Maintenance facility in Brooklyn that can house NOVAS than its all good. 

But ENY had LFS and maintain them perfectly 

[Around the Horn]

12 minutes ago, R179 8258 said:

But ENY had LFS and maintain them perfectly 

They want Brooklyn to have Xcelsiors and Queens have LFS for parts reasons not necessarily maintenance (or the inability to do maintenance).