MTA Bus Operations: Fleet & Depots

[Kanarsie Guy]

1 hour ago, R179 8258 said:

But ENY had LFS and maintain them perfectly 

It was space related not maintenance XD do better with crush loads then the Nova because on the seat configuration.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Age of current fleet from oldest to newest. At least that's how I'd do it.

 

Or maybe TWU would put a clause in the contract giving the drivers at Such-and-Such Depot first refusal of all new buses.

[trainfan22]

42 minutes ago, Kanarsie Guy said:

It was space related not maintenance XD do better with crush loads then the Nova because on the seat configuration.

I doubt that. If true the Queens routes would be more in demand for XD's as most of the Queens NYCT routes are subway feeders... in the AM rush a bunch of people pile on and on until everybody gets dumped off at the Subway. 

 

I never heard of the TA assigning buses based on how much space they have..

[Jdog14]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They raised hell about missing and late buses and that helped them get a piece of that artic order for Tuskegee Depot.

 

Come 2-3 years they will probably end up raising hell again if Tuskegee doesn't maintain them properly. There should be more emphasis on maintenance practices rather than solely the fleet. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Jdog14 said:

 

Come 2-3 years they will probably end up raising hell again if Tuskegee doesn't maintain them properly. There should be more emphasis on maintenance practices rather than solely the fleet. 

I agree and unfortunately from what I've seen some of the low floor buses are already looking like garbage.  They've been sending in for paint jobs, but that isn't enough.  Some of those buses sound like they have mechanical problems.  

[Kanarsie Guy]

4 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

I doubt that. If true the Queens routes would be more in demand for XD's as most of the Queens NYCT routes are subway feeders... in the AM rush a bunch of people pile on and on until everybody gets dumped off at the Subway. 

 

I never heard of the TA assigning buses based on how much space they have..

Not really only one Queens route cracked the top 15 in ridership. I’ve took the heavy lines and it not like the M15 or B46 we’re talking all day not just rush hours were you expect a full bus.

[WestFarms36]

@Via Garibaldi 8

Whats' your Insight on the 1200 Series LFSA's on the M15 +SBS+

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, WestFarms36 said:

@Via Garibaldi 8

Whats' your Insight on the 1200 Series LFSA's on the M15 +SBS+

Didn't the M15SBS get some of the new artics? If not I imagine they will soon, as they are needed.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[officiallyliam]

10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Didn't the M15SBS get some of the new artics? If not I imagine they will soon, as they are needed.

The M15 SBS is going to get new artics as part of the next XD60 order; those haven't arrived yet, but will beginning later this year. When that happens, the 12xx LFSAs will be passed down to local service with the rest of the former-SBS artic buses.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

34 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

The M15 SBS is going to get new artics as part of the next XD60 order; those haven't arrived yet, but will beginning later this year. When that happens, the 12xx LFSAs will be passed down to local service with the rest of the former-SBS artic buses.

Ok, then I'm thinking about the local M15. It definitely got some because I've seen them along Second Avenue.

[WestFarms36]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Didn't the M15SBS get some of the new artics? If not I imagine they will soon, as they are needed.

They are getting the 2nd batch of XD60's by January 2019. Those 1200 Series got a real beating.

[East New York]

15 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

How about  does not want LFS in Brooklyn b/c of maintenance. None of the Brooklyn maintenance facilities can’t do extensive LFS work. They can do some but not all work. Extensive work is done at Zerega. 

Unless  decides to built another Maintenance facility in Brooklyn that can house NOVAS than its all good. 

As mentioned by others is not because of maintenance, but rather fleet uniformity. In terms of maintenance it keeps costs down, and at the same time doesn’t overload a particular depots Store Room with parts from a ton of buses. CMF,s like ENY and Brand would have no issue maintaining a LFS. Before all of this started I went into extensions discussion as to why this was going to happen. 

For example, once upon a time when Ulmer had RTS’, LFS’, E10’s, XD’s, X3’s, and MCI’s I said this was going to be a nightmare for maintenance. We all see what happened with that. Non-CFM depots should NOT have more than 3 bus types, or 4 if they are larger enough or have a CFM near. MTA finally took what I recommended from day 1 and implemented it system-wide. For that reason all bus types will be consolidated to central areas. However, as I mentioned before it is/was inevitable that the Xcelsiors begreen to creep into new territory more and more. And with the 275 hybrids coming in (that will be accelerated) we will likely see them spill over into Staten Island and QV. The order for 25 at Bus is competitive, yet MTA Bus is an “Xcelsiors” Company, so it doesn’t take rocket science to see how that’s gonna go. Case in point. I said a year ago that the next Bus Co. artic order would be competitive, but my sources said it would go to New Flyer because of the delivery schedule and new Fleet Uniformity Program. 

In case anyone missed it, I added in the assignments for 5531-5602 to the first page. I forgot to mention it once Seven Eleven pointed out that I missed it, and they were finalized for the time being. I will be updating the XD40 and XD60 assignments soon. I didn’t post the revision I had because The Real notified me that they would be changing yet again. There is a 97% chance ALL the LFSA’s will be for SBS.

15 hours ago, XBht26 said:

As an operator myself, I wonder why we can't pick which buses to have in the depot. We are the ones behind the wheel. Is it maintenance that decides the fleet or the higher ups?

In a way you do have a say. Especially working at East New York. Ask some of your vets about it. I don’t think I can really go into that, but I have said time and time again, that whatever East New York and Quill want as a whole, they get. It’s all bout 4 factors now; Your individual seniority, your Depot’s overall systemwide seniority, uniformity, and customer reception. The final decision of course is up to MTA Brass, however they can be swayed. 

Major example is the fact that Quill and EN still have substantial RTS fleets that we’re supposed to be gone long ago. That’s what they want as a whole.

When significantly new buses come out this day in age, you all actually have a more of a say now publicly. However there’s a bit of a catch to it. I will use some recent examples. During the inaugural Bus Test & Evaluation program, all the operators, maintenance personnel and supervisors at the test depots we’re asked their opinion on the new buses. This was a deciding factor into what went where out of the 3 standard models. When it comes to artics, The Bronx has notoriously been the proving grounds for those. So it’s no coincidence that even though at the time the B46 was the heaviest used line In America, SBS was born in The Bronx. So to date we have whitnessed the original 1000 series D60HF’s, 1200 and 4700 BTE buses get their start in the Bronx. A present day evaluation was 7484. JA is legacy depot, and Nova stronghold for both generations of the LFS. For this new pilot, their staff evaluated the XD and gave their opinion. 

14 hours ago, DueceDrives said:

Thats the same thing I have been preeching about. They should have operators vote or voice their opinions on the buses their depot cureent fleet. We’re the one operating these buses.

See above***

14 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

What if a batch of 30 buses is up for grabs and drivers at multiple depots want it? Which depot gets absolute priority over all others?

Seniority, the GM, maintenance and need are the key factors.

Hovever in the case of the RTS, the legacy seniority depots have had decades long fights over those and the only justified need for them I’d the fact that’s it’s the undisputed American Work bourse. Considering their age, MDBF, Wheel-Chair life issues, and lack of driver space for the big and tall, nothing has ever held a candle to it. It’s Grandmother, The “New Look” was the only one to date that can match its Maintenance record. Depots fought over those back in the day as well. Historically, we haven’t seen anyone fight over any other model ever introduced....... 

Historically, when there is need, absolute priority goes to the depots of need. Where there is a fleet balance, or maintenance decision in play, absolute priority (off the record) goes to EN, then Quill, then the rest of Brooklyn, then everyone else. OR the depots with the best maintenance. 

13 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I highly doubt MTA would ever order a batch of only 30 buses. I don't think that would ever be an issue. Everything now is trending upward in large batches of hundreds of buses.

He explained later what he meant, and I would add on by using the example of the last 88 option XD40’s. They will be up for grabs. Who’s gonna get them? What will be the deciding factors? We won’t really know until the time comes.

11 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

I never got hybrids at Queens Village. The majority of the routes can get long-ish runs, there isn't any significant traffic like Manhattan. Does QV save lots of fuel, or is there something I'm missing? These hybrids would be better off converting MQ to 100% 40 foot hybrid operation.

The lack of hybrid arctics also is confusing to me. Like, those routes run through very dense and crowded areas, naturally they are going to be slow routes. Yet we still don't have XDE60 not LFS-A HEV which would be perfect for the crosstowns for instance.

Hybrids at QV were originally placed because MTA wanted them spread out and it was unknown at the time that if they weren’t in a stop-and-go environment they would require significantly more maintenance. QV does not save nearly as much fuel as depots like Quill and Manhattanville. The hybrids with the worse MBDF and fuel economy were Staten Island followed by Queens. The higher the average speed, the faster the batteries die. Hence we now ONLY have hybrids on the S79 in Staten Island. Newer hybrids can handle both conditions much better now, and the MTA will so begin the evaluation of which platform works best for them when it comes to the current hybrid BTE. 

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

You guys are paid good money so you should be able to drive anything they give you as long as you're trained on it.  The  brass decide where buses go and I agree with that.  If B/Os had the decision to pick which buses went where, the passengers would suffer the most since maintenance varies from depot to depot.  Just imagine Ulmer Park with nothing but those old beat up RTS buses with no damn AC, but let's have them there because the B/Os love driving those things even though they're inefficient from an operations standpoint and not passenger friendly, especially for the disabled and physically challenged.  I'll keep saying it.  Relics or not, those RTS buses need to go.  Well past their time... Passengers will have to endure another hot summer with those buses rolling around with no AC, paying $2.75 for them to boot.

Additionally the  cares most about mileage so buses are moved around based off of that as well, though there does appear to be some politics involved on which depot gets what and who yells the loudest which is absurd IMO.  It's clear based on how buses are being assigned that they do have some sort of organization to the madness.  This should allow for less "emergencies" where depots are in desperate need and have to borrow buses from other depots to make service.  The way they've been doing it with Staten Island getting their batch of new buses makes more sense.  The only thing I'm not wild about is how they keep replacing the SBS fleet and unwrapping buses and throwing them on the local lines as hand-me-downs.  The new fleet should be spread around accordingly so that paying passengers can ride in comfort.  Without passengers there's no depot, which currently should be the focus given how horrendous bus ridership has become.

I also would like them to get maintenance more parallel across the board so that certain depots aren't always in need because they run their buses into the ground (e.g. Yukon Depot, Gunhill and few others that do a horrendous job with maintenance).

So because someone is paid good money it means they shouldn’t have a say in what the operate? Sounds a bit oppressive to me and part of the reason culture within MTA and many other corporations is the way that it is today. The best companies operate on a structure where everyone has some type of say in operations. And by the way, Ulmer had old beat up RTS because the drivers wanted them, and they handled the B6 better and still do better than any bus ever will. Not only that, Brookynites prefer the RTS as a whole. I still see tons of people, along with myself, pass up low floors daily in our  “not-so-fancy” neighborhoods.

The ONLY Brooklyn operators who seem not to like them are the Big & Tall guys, rookies, people who are only there for a check and have no interest in buses otherwise, and vets who don’t really wanna do too much work, or worry about the lift. 

Like them or not, they are definitely, old, tired, and some need to be retired. However, one thing none of us can argue about is the fact that they speak for themselves every winter when they run circles around everything else. God help us where there are no more. 🤭😴

10 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

hypothetically speaking, if only 30 RTS's are available in the system, and say, La Guardia, JFK, Eastchester, Ulmer Park, Quill, East NY and Jamaica all want part of the 30, who gets what? we all know certain depots have preference over others, but if left up to bus operators, maintainers/mechanics (transportation versus maintenance departments) it could get ugly. i personally feel that if the entire system is getting a makeover top to bottom,  then yes, the employees (the union representation) who are responsible for keeping the system moving should have a say in equipment in the depot, but there would need to be guidelines for things to be handled obviously. there shouldn't be a battle royale within the depot of maintainers/mechanics versus bus operators (crabs in a barrel politics) 

Let’s not even speak in the hypothetical on this one. Let’s use 2 real examples.

1.) 8600-8703: East New York and Quill were not coming off those, and that was the end of that discussion before it even started. They will likely go down in the history books as the only non-specialized fleet to spend their entire standard 12 years service lives in one location. 

2.) 5175-5199. EC vs LG vs FB vs EN.

That got ugly... Really ugly. EC is still pissed about it and everyone started in-fighting over RTS as LG started picking them off one-by-one.

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think by 2020, we should really see the (NYCT and Bus) finally have fleet that is relatively similar across the board. It's been a long, painful process but it seems to be happening.  Meanwhile, there are some instances where communities do influence which depot gets what fleet, like the UES.  They raised hell about missing and late buses and that helped them get a piece of that artic order for Tuskegee Depot.

Everyone raises hell about missing and late buses. It’s wasnt the UES residents, it was Ops Planning. They were already on the list of new buses because of the average fleet age. If they had a major SBS route they would have got them before Stengel. 

This is always and forever going to be a long painful process. MTA has the most buses in North America. It’s a cycle that’s never going to end. In 2020 it will be time for more hybrids, then the next massive retirement cycle of the OG’s followed by ALL the BTE buses, then the C40LF’s. In just 5 short years, a great majority of those buses will be more than a decade old, and you will be saying this same thing again.

 

10 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

also

Agreed, i wouldn't work in a depot that had only shitty RTS's/d60hf's or the break down numbers were high. there would obviously need to be a balance. 

And that’s the thing. That all depends on the operator and likely the factors I mentioned above lol. People like me and all my vet friends would take a D60, Orion V, or RTS over anything, any day. I literally have only 1 friend (of at least 10) at MTA who doesn’t like the RTS and he says it’s only because there’s no room in the driver compartment, and his depot didn’t maintain them well over the years lol. 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, East New York said:

As mentioned by others is not because of maintenance, but rather fleet uniformity. In terms of maintenance it keeps costs down, and at the same time doesn’t overload a particular depots Store Room with parts from a ton of buses. CMF,s like ENY and Brand would have no issue maintaining a LFS. Before all of this started I went into extensions discussion as to why this was going to happen. 

For example, once upon a time when Ulmer had RTS’, LFS’, E10’s, XD’s, X3’s, and MCI’s I said this was going to be a nightmare for maintenance. We all see what happened with that. Non-CFM depots should NOT have more than 3 bus types, or 4 if they are larger enough or have a CFM near. MTA finally took what I recommended from day 1 and implemented it system-wide. For that reason all bus types will be consolidated to central areas. However, as I mentioned before it is/was inevitable that the Xcelsiors begreen to creep into new territory more and more. And with the 275 hybrids coming in (that will be accelerated) we will likely see them spill over into Staten Island and QV. The order for 25 at Bus is competitive, yet MTA Bus is an “Xcelsiors” Company, so it doesn’t take rocket science to see how that’s gonna go. Case in point. I said a year ago that the next Bus Co. artic order would be competitive, but my sources said it would go to New Flyer because of the delivery schedule and new Fleet Uniformity Program. 

In case anyone missed it, I added in the assignments for 5531-5602 to the first page. I forgot to mention it once Seven Eleven pointed out that I missed it, and they were finalized for the time being. I will be updating the XD40 and XD60 assignments soon. I didn’t post the revision I had because The Real notified me that they would be changing yet again. There is a 97% chance ALL the LFSA’s will be for SBS.

In a way you do have a say. Especially working at East New York. Ask some of your vets about it. I don’t think I can really go into that, but I have said time and time again, that whatever East New York and Quill want as a whole, they get. It’s all bout 4 factors now; Your individual seniority, your Depot’s overall systemwide seniority, uniformity, and customer reception. The final decision of course is up to MTA Brass, however they can be swayed. 

Major example is the fact that Quill and EN still have substantial RTS fleets that we’re supposed to be gone long ago. That’s what they want as a whole.

When significantly new buses come out this day in age, you all actually have a more of a say now publicly. However there’s a bit of a catch to it. I will use some recent examples. During the inaugural Bus Test & Evaluation program, all the operators, maintenance personnel and supervisors at the test depots we’re asked their opinion on the new buses. This was a deciding factor into what went where out of the 3 standard models. When it comes to artics, The Bronx has notoriously been the proving grounds for those. So it’s no coincidence that even though at the time the B46 was the heaviest used line In America, SBS was born in The Bronx. So to date we have whitnessed the original 1000 series D60HF’s, 1200 and 4700 BTE buses get their start in the Bronx. A present day evaluation was 7484. JA is legacy depot, and Nova stronghold for both generations of the LFS. For this new pilot, their staff evaluated the XD and gave their opinion. 

See above***

Seniority, the GM, maintenance and need are the key factors.

Hovever in the case of the RTS, the legacy seniority depots have had decades long fights over those and the only justified need for them I’d the fact that’s it’s the undisputed American Work bourse. Considering their age, MDBF, Wheel-Chair life issues, and lack of driver space for the big and tall, nothing has ever held a candle to it. It’s Grandmother, The “New Look” was the only one to date that can match its Maintenance record. Depots fought over those back in the day as well. Historically, we haven’t seen anyone fight over any other model ever introduced....... 

Historically, when there is need, absolute priority goes to the depots of need. Where there is a fleet balance, or maintenance decision in play, absolute priority (off the record) goes to EN, then Quill, then the rest of Brooklyn, then everyone else. OR the depots with the best maintenance. 

He explained later what he meant, and I would add on by using the example of the last 88 option XD40’s. They will be up for grabs. Who’s gonna get them? What will be the deciding factors? We won’t really know until the time comes.

Hybrids at QV were originally placed because MTA wanted them spread out and it was unknown at the time that if they weren’t in a stop-and-go environment they would require significantly more maintenance. QV does not save nearly as much fuel as depots like Quill and Manhattanville. The hybrids with the worse MBDF and fuel economy were Staten Island followed by Queens. The higher the average speed, the faster the batteries die. Hence we now ONLY have hybrids on the S79 in Staten Island. Newer hybrids can handle both conditions much better now, and the MTA will so begin the evaluation of which platform works best for them when it comes to the current hybrid BTE. 

So because someone is paid good money it means they shouldn’t have a say in what the operate? Sounds a bit oppressive to me and part of the reason culture within MTA and many other corporations is the way that it is today. The best companies operate on a structure where everyone has some type of say in operations. And by the way, Ulmer had old beat up RTS because the drivers wanted them, and they handled the B6 better and still do better than any bus ever will. Not only that, Brookynites prefer the RTS as a whole. I still see tons of people, along with myself, pass up low floors daily in our  “not-so-fancy” neighborhoods.

The ONLY Brooklyn operators who seem not to like them are the Big & Tall guys, rookies, people who are only there for a check and have no interest in buses otherwise, and vets who don’t really wanna do too much work, or worry about the lift. 

Like them or not, they are definitely, old, tired, and some need to be retired. However, one thing none of us can argue about is the fact that they speak for themselves every winter when they run circles around everything else. God help us where there are no more. 🤭😴

Let’s not even speak in the hypothetical on this one. Let’s use 2 real examples.

1.) 8600-8703: East New York and Quill were not coming off those, and that was the end of that discussion before it even started. They will likely go down in the history books as the only non-specialized fleet to spend their entire standard 12 years service lives in one location. 

2.) 5175-5199. EC vs LG vs FB vs EN.

That got ugly... Really ugly. EC is still pissed about it and everyone started in-fighting over RTS as LG started picking them off one-by-one.

Everyone raises hell about missing and late buses. It’s wasnt the UES residents, it was Ops Planning. They were already on the list of new buses because of the average fleet age. If they had a major SBS route they would have got them before Stengel. 

This is always and forever going to be a long painful process. MTA has the most buses in North America. It’s a cycle that’s never going to end. In 2020 it will be time for more hybrids, then the next massive retirement cycle of the OG’s followed by ALL the BTE buses, then the C40LF’s. In just 5 short years, a great majority of those buses will be more than a decade old, and you will be saying this same thing again.

 

And that’s the thing. That all depends on the operator and likely the factors I mentioned above lol. People like me and all my vet friends would take a D60, Orion V, or RTS over anything, any day. I literally have only 1 friend (of at least 10) at MTA who doesn’t like the RTS and he says it’s only because there’s no room in the driver compartment, and his depot didn’t maintain them well over the years lol. 

 

Not sure I agree with that but communities do write elected officials who then petition the . It's as if you're saying the people riding the buses have no sway in what they ride. Of course the ultimately decided but they do take those sorts of complaints into consideration. It is afterall a public agency.

Regarding my other point, my point was it seems as if the is in better shape overall in terms of the current fleet. When looking at how many express buses are now 10+ plus years old and still operating pretty well, it's a much different situation than years ago. Given the loss in ridership and the 's move to artics, one could conclude that even with them having the largest fleet they are apparently looking to buy fewer buses down the road.

As for fleet consolidation, it's not like the has tons of options to choose from. NOVA or New Flyer... lol

 

Finally my other point about drivers... Driver comfort should be considered, but what shouldn't happen is depots fighting over the oldest beat up fleet because they love a particular model. If maintenance can't keep up the fleet it isn't doing passengers any good which is what the buses are supposed to be in service for. I have some B/O friends that ALWAYS complain about how old the buses are that they drive. If the buses aren't running properly perhaps maintenance isn't as good as it should be or the needs to buy newer fleet more often. As long as the bus has AC and heat, operates safely and has seats for passengers (I've been on Q32 buses that had seats missing), I don't see why they shouldn't be in service.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[limitednyc]

when the xd60's  option comes in what is going to happen to lfs 60's they are repacing?

[MysteriousBtrain]

Just now, limitednyc said:

when the xd60's  option comes in what is going to happen to lfs 60's they are repacing?

Local service to replace the D60.

[limitednyc]

not really if u add up the 92 option { mjq, gh ) 30 transfered from fl and 40 from mta  bus .should be enouph the replace all the d60  and displace most of the 1200's fls60's.

[BreeddekalbL]

On 5/31/2018 at 9:40 AM, East New York said:

The AD’s can actually be assigned to Eastchester, Charleston, or Yonkers.

In addition to what the others mentioned about traffic, buses are not allowed on the Brooklyn Bridge

 

all the buses in the active fleet have power steering.......  That’s been a standard feature in every vehicle in America since before you were born I’m sure lol.

Fanning the “Brake” is the the manner in which the break is repeatedly depressed, which builds and releases pressure in the air chamber and increases stopping power. If the brakes are not calibrated correctly or are wearing down the first tine is it takes a lot more pressure to stop the bus.

What is ad and GG since you say one of them can't go through the tunnel?

Also I meant to be precise any one of the buses have a compact steering wheel like this?

https://goo.gl/images/5owd3q

[Brillant93]

On 5/18/2018 at 7:00 PM, Union Tpke said:

Here is where the buses will go.....

Screen Shot 2018-05-18 at 6.52.16 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2018-05-18 at 6.52.22 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2018-05-18 at 6.52.31 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2018-05-18 at 6.52.37 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Buses for the L train shutdown are going to a private lot in Maspeth Queens. 

[East New York]

On 6/1/2018 at 9:34 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Not sure I agree with that but communities do write elected officials who then petition the . It's as if you're saying the people riding the buses have no sway in what they ride. Of course the ultimately decided but they do take those sorts of complaints into consideration. It is afterall a public agency.

Regarding my other point, my point was it seems as if the is in better shape overall in terms of the current fleet. When looking at how many express buses are now 10+ plus years old and still operating pretty well, it's a much different situation than years ago. Given the loss in ridership and the 's move to artics, one could conclude that even with them having the largest fleet they are apparently looking to buy fewer buses down the road.

As for fleet consolidation, it's not like the has tons of options to choose from. NOVA or New Flyer... lol

 

Finally my other point about drivers... Driver comfort should be considered, but what shouldn't happen is depots fighting over the oldest beat up fleet because they love a particular model. If maintenance can't keep up the fleet it isn't doing passengers any good which is what the buses are supposed to be in service for. I have some B/O friends that ALWAYS complain about how old the buses are that they drive. If the buses aren't running properly perhaps maintenance isn't as good as it should be or the needs to buy newer fleet more often. As long as the bus has AC and heat, operates safely and has seats for passengers (I've been on Q32 buses that had seats missing), I don't see why they shouldn't be in service.

I never said communities don’t sway decisions. However in terms of the artics, it was already in the works years before anyone even though of writing or contacting someone about it. However due to the artic debacle of 2004 

Contrary to popular belief, MTA is not moving towards a trend of fewer buses. There has been growth buses with almost every placed in recent years and future fleet plans call for more as well. So let’s not jump to conclusions.

Fighting over older buses is something that shouldn’t concern you or any other average rider. The buses have to go somewhere until they are replaced. Period. Only depots with good maintenance or a temp assignment of buses soon to be retired would get them anyway. So I’m not sure what the issue is here.

10 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

What is ad and GG since you say one of them can't go through the tunnel?

Also I meant to be precise any one of the buses have a compact steering wheel like this?

https://goo.gl/images/5owd3q

AD=Alexander Dennis 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, East New York said:

I never said communities don’t sway decisions. However in terms of the artics, it was already in the works years before anyone even though of writing or contacting someone about it. However due to the artic debacle of 2004 

Contrary to popular belief, MTA is not moving towards a trend of fewer buses. There has been growth buses with almost every placed in recent years and future fleet plans call for more as well. So let’s not jump to conclusions.

Fighting over older buses is something that shouldn’t concern you or any other average rider. The buses have to go somewhere until they are replaced. Period. Only depots with good maintenance or a temp assignment of buses soon to be retired would get them anyway. So I’m not sure what the issue is here.

AD=Alexander Dennis 

It concerns me because I like many others ride them and pay for the service, so it's not a closed discussion. Not to sway off-topic, but we the riding public are entitled to speak on the matter contrary to what may be out there. I have written my elected officials about decrepit buses and would again if the issue arose. The is a public agency not a private one.

[East New York]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It concerns me because I like many others ride them and pay for the service, so it's not a closed discussion. Not to sway off-topic, but we the riding public are entitled to speak on the matter contrary to what may be out there. I have written my elected officials about decrepit buses and would again if the issue arose. The is a public agency not a private one.

I think you are missing what I am saying here. If there is a batch of old buses, they to go somewhere, what the operators say about them and how they feel about them is none of your concern. With a fleet this large there will always be 10+ year old buses at all times. Yes you are entitled to your opinion, and you can write or call in and voice them at anytime. However fleet planning, operations, and things like run numbers, and assignment decisions based on need still are of no concern to you. These are internal issues which you don't even have the knowledge of to be in a position to comment. That's all. Yes it is a public agency, and by no means am I saying you don't have a voice. 

My point is that when buses are old, as all the test buses will be in the near future, many communities may not want to have them, but someone is going to have to get them. 

As far as covering service, and how the operators feel about the equipment they drive every day as I said, should not be your concern, not the general public. It doesn't affect you unless there is no bus to make service. So no bus or old bus? If there is no bus, complain, if the bus is too old, go ahead and complain too.

Public agency or not, there is some information that you should not be entitled to or does not concern you. Most of which many of you would not know if it were not for platforms like these. 

I think at times you worry too much about trivial things that don't directly or at times even indirectly affect you, service or the general public.

I totally understand what you are saying, but again, I don't see why a fight over older buses between Bus Company and Transit is really any of your concern? 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by East New York

[MHV9218]

This leads more to my working thesis called VG8 Has Nothing To Do. Who has time to post thirty times a day on this website and write to elected officials to whine about fleet management, without even understanding the way NYCB works? Customers have a right to voice complaints about poor service, decrepit conditions (lack of AC, etc.), but disliking part of the fleet for being twelve years old as opposed to eight is just a little childish. 

[NewFlyerFan]

Apologies if this sounds like a newbie question but will any of the older Local Service buses, both NYCT and MTA Bus be repainted in the new Blue and Gold scheme?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 6/1/2018 at 9:34 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Not sure I agree with that but communities do write elected officials who then petition the . It's as if you're saying the people riding the buses have no sway in what they ride. Of course the ultimately decided but they do take those sorts of complaints into consideration. It is afterall a public agency.

 

Should every fleet assignment be subject to a public referendum? Which communities should have priority over all others in choosing their buses?

[WestFarms36]

 

I really do not really care. As long as I have a vehicle that takes me from Point A to Point B it really doesn't make a difference to me, while the Bus moves, has Heating in the winter, and AC in the Summer, I am fine. All these new buses will be old someday. The XN40's are already turning 2 and we just got them the other day. The 1200's were just received the other day and almost 9, in an agency this big, buses will be old and nothing can be replaced overnight. Yes the RTS has been in service longer than originally intended, yes they aren't up to code on the most recent ADA Standards, and yes the Fuel Efficiency on those buses aren't prestine, but you can never expect an agency looking after 5,800 Buses with fleet expansion planned to not have old buses still crawling. Even small county agencies are up to this day dealing with older buses. Yes it is a public agency where you can voice your concerns, but fleet assignments happen where there is need. You can't take away new buses from a depot that is in need for new buses to send it elsewhere to please others. Many New Yorkers don't have a problem riding them anyway. Look at the train for example. People began complaining over the R32's being very stingy to ride on, swapped a few sets with the  , without it being a necessity. The never went 100% R160 anyway, and now those same R160's sent from the , guess where they have to go back again? Yes back to the Nassau St Line. Now due to lengthening of the  train, it is now getting R46's which are younger and in better shape, and probably share 5 R179 sets with the and the R32's running on the returning to where they came from in the first place. Which comes back to this, buses cannot be rolled around the city like dice, because 1 person wants new buses on their route. Sometimes those new buses are there for planned future +SBS+ routes, or to increase Bus capacity and prevent Bus Shortages *cough* Gun Hill *cough* West Farms *cough* eventually those depots with old RTS's will get even newer buses with the WIFI, USB Charging Ports, and Information Screens. Its just a matter of patience and acceptance. Therefore ENY is right, if it were not for this platform, most of us would be like the Papparazi's all around the 5 boroughs.

Edited June 3, 2018 by WestFarms36