MTA Bus Operations: Fleet & Depots

[Cait Sith]

The only problem with the Q60 getting artics is on the Manhattan side and the Queens side between Woodhaven and Union Turnpike. They'd have to change that stop in Manhattan before it even gets artics. The exit ramp the Q60s take to get to the stop is a little too tight for artics.

As for the Queens side, parking. Those folks will not want to give up parking just for them to extend the bus stops further, especially in the Forest Hills and Rego Park area.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Cait Sith

[SubBus]

Is the Q110 planned to be 100% artic as well or will it just be a few for the rush?

I was thinking the same thing. There seems to be about 4 of them on the line now. I thought that the artics were for the Brewer routes. I guess there are interlining runs between the Q110 and Q111/113/114....

 

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[R32 3838]

The 110 isn't going to be 100% artic yet, these are mainly for the brewer routes and by the summer pick they want the 111,113 and 114 100% artic

[BreeddekalbL]

The only problem with the Q60 getting artics is on the Manhattan side and the Queens side between Woodhaven and Union Turnpike. They'd have to change that stop in Manhattan before it even gets artics. The exit ramp the Q60s take to get to the stop is a little too tight for artics.

 

As for the Queens side, parking. Those folks will not want to give up parking just for them to extend the bus stops further, especially in the Forest Hills and Rego Park area.

 

i see it's like your making a very quick and hard turn 

 

i can see those people in queens if they try to extend the stops will call Koslowitz (forest hills councilwoman who is nasty in her opposition to the queensway which is for another time) so she can throw a fit .

[Far rockaway]

there is no way that the mta wants the q65 to become artics. The q65 bus makes to many turns and the streets that it goes down is narrow.

 

And it also goes up that big hill from hillside ave to highland ave. The q25 bus i have no problem with its just the q65.

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

Take a ride on the Bx1,Bx2 and/or Bx36 to clear your concerns about artics on Q65...

It will do wonders for you lol!

[Rafa]

Only time a bus will have problems on a hill is when the road is covered with that white stuff they usually call snow.

[FLX9304]

For those that have been wondering why there have been no recent updates, it's because things have been changing on a constant basis, and I wanted to wait until I had all the puzzle pieces before I made a major update. So here we go!

 

A.) The next order for NFI and Nova Option 40 foot buses has officially been put on hold for several reasons. If you all remember when the contract first came out, MTA initially said they would likely place an order for options with delivery in the second quarter of 2016. It is now June, which means it is the last month of the quarter, and as of today, MTA doesn't plan on putting them on the books at the next board meeting. Well why is that??

 

B.) Anyone been wondering why on Earth Quill has 93/94/9500 series buses? or why ENY lost all it's RTS buses, then got some back? Remember about 6 months ago I said the ish was gonna hit the fan with the RTS fleet, and it would get interesting?? Well guess what people. The MTA has decided to place certain RTS buses all over the city (with the exception of SI) in order to immediately re-evaluate the entire fleet. So that means we just pushed the final retirement date further into 2019. If the evaluation overall is in favor of the RTS, we rock out through 2020. If not, MTA will issue a "Notice to Proceed" to both NFI and Nova for addition options soon. However, the options have inevitably been pushed back anyway as the contracts need to be amended a bit to allow for WiFi and USB ports. Not only that, but the finalized 40 foot scheme has to be tested out on a bus of each model before its approved.  In the meanwhile, EC keeps its 99 Nova's, and this no longer appears to be a temporary assignment. I expect 3 more to head up there inevitably to replace those Orion V's. As older RTS buses are retired, about 70% of the fleet are pounding the pavement daily with hardly an issue at all. The older 30% are going to have to go soon, and this is what the MTA is focusing on in this area. When do we say today is the day...... Retirement has been extended at least 3 times now and the newest buses will likely out last a few of the first OG hybrids, and all of the OG CNG's.

 

C.) MTA's new immediate focus is articulated buses. Where and how many are the questions. 139 XD60's and 92 Nova's have been inked, and be on the lookout for 110 XN60's. The details are near complete, and the order will be on the books publicly soon. I am hearing the order could have options, which would mean the ONLY place we could fit them are Spring Creek and College Point.    MTA is also looking into when the next 29 and 24 buses respectively should be ordered for MTA bus. Because nothing is official, there is room to play. The new strategy going forward is to order enough artics to cover all basis. That way, while the MTA evaluates where the remaining RTS, and displaced hybrids go, they still have 690 options available to cover the other end at any time. 

 

D.) Speaking of all this artics, the 60 foot BYD electric bus will return with a few modifications, and the MTA will go from there with an evaluation. MTA is keeping the lid on this one, but they are in the wings evaluating everyones electric offerings. I expect to see more pop up on the property over the next 24-36 months.

 

E.) Hybrids. There are currently 2 qualified builders, yet only 1 qualified powertrain. As we go forward in the future the MTA will evaluate the new BAE and Allison systems extensively. Unless something changes, all of the 75 new hybrids will go to Manhattanville.

 

F.) WiFi and outlets. By the end of 2017, 18 buses in Manhattan, 70 in Brooklyn, 75 in Queens, and 209 buses in the Bronx will have the new features. This will be a combination of both new buses, and retrofitted buses. If MTA decides to confirm 40 options and up to 53 more XD60's, these numbers will increase. 

 

 

Thats definitely true for most part, and I would definitely agree for drivers new to articulated buses, but I could make that turn with no problem, and not much set-up needed at all.... At 44 inches, the XD actually has a slightly tighter turning radius than the Nova's 44.8 inches. And they still both stretch a bit more than that before they lock up. 

you forgot about West Farms with that 110 XN60s that's coming in. WF has Bx19 & shares Bx15 with KB, and can see one soon on the Bx6 if the route gets SBS. CP has been talked about getting artics since they are getting some for the potential Q25 SBS. Expect C40LF transfers when 3 depots (JG, WF & CP) get the delivery of the XNs (no matter what type)

there is no way that the mta wants the q65 to become artics. The q65 bus makes to many turns and the streets that it goes down is narrow.

 

And it also goes up that big hill from hillside ave to highland ave. The q25 bus i have no problem with its just the q65.

I agree with you on the Q65. Artics are slated for the Q25

[East New York]

Artics are needed on the 25 and 65 and since there are interlined it's highly likely. MTA is known for adjusting route terminals. However, even if it does happen it won't be for quite a while, and we need to see if the XN60 contract will in fact have options. If it doesn't, expect service increases in those lines with 40 footers. They made the 3rd and 4th highest ridership for 2015. Let's not forget to date the BC lines I said would have artics now have them, and the ones planned will likely get them as well.

 

In other news, the TA had decided to evaluate the entire fleet. MTA is evaluating the entire express fleet as a new order is in the horizon. As many have noticed, EC and YO each got 2 2200 series buses for driver training, maintenance training and evaluation. Yonkers does not want them, and EC is like its cool. We can maintain anything. Because of all this, MTA is planning on sending 2400's to Spring Creek to bump 2200's to Eastchester, and 33/3400's to Yonkers. DOB is also supposed to be sending a couple Prevosts to EC, YO, and CP for evaluation and training.

 

As the next order will be the most fierce competition between MCI and Prevost to date, MTA wants to prepare for anything no matter who it's awarded to. 378 of the buses will be for BC, and the following year (2017) there will only be an order for 50 buses TA side. If it goes to Prevost, the days of MCI domination are officially over. If it goes to MCI, it will be the first large order since Bus Company was created. This is going to be very interesting! With New Flyer quietly building a facility in New York, their "NYS Build Content" will be greater than that of Nova's once it is complete. it would not surprise me at all if they are planning on finishing MCI buses there as well. Stay tuned.

[The TransitMan]

Artics are needed on the 25 and 65 and since there are interlined it's highly likely. MTA is known for adjusting route terminals. However, even if it does happen it won't be for quite a while, and we need to see if the XN60 contract will in fact have options. If it doesn't, expect service increases in those lines with 40 footers. They made the 3rd and 4th highest ridership for 2015. Let's not forget to date the BC lines I said would have artics now have them, and the ones planned will likely get them as well.

 

In other news, the TA had decided to evaluate the entire fleet. MTA is evaluating the entire express fleet as a new order is in the horizon. As many have noticed, EC and YO each got 2 2200 series buses for driver training, maintenance training and evaluation. Yonkers does not want them, and EC is like its cool. We can maintain anything. Because of all this, MTA is planning on sending 2400's to Spring Creek to bump 2200's to Eastchester, and 33/3400's to Yonkers. DOB is also supposed to be sending a couple Prevosts to EC, YO, and CP for evaluation and training.

 

As the next order will be the most fierce competition between MCI and Prevost to date, MTA wants to prepare for anything no matter who it's awarded to. 378 of the buses will be for BC, and the following year (2017) there will only be an order for 50 buses TA side. If it goes to Prevost, the days of MCI domination are officially over. If it goes to MCI, it will be the first large order since Bus Company was created. This is going to be very interesting! With New Flyer quietly building a facility in New York, their "NYS Build Content" will be greater than that of Nova's once it is complete. it would not surprise me at all if they are planning on finishing MCI buses there as well. Stay tuned.

 

Are these 2400s coming from Staten Island...like Meredith OR 25 from Ulmer Park?

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

Artics are needed on the 25 and 65 and since there are interlined it's highly likely. MTA is known for adjusting route terminals. However, even if it does happen it won't be for quite a while, and we need to see if the XN60 contract will in fact have options. If it doesn't, expect service increases in those lines with 40 footers. They made the 3rd and 4th highest ridership for 2015. Let's not forget to date the BC lines I said would have artics now have them, and the ones planned will likely get them as well.

 

In other news, the TA had decided to evaluate the entire fleet. MTA is evaluating the entire express fleet as a new order is in the horizon. As many have noticed, EC and YO each got 2 2200 series buses for driver training, maintenance training and evaluation. Yonkers does not want them, and EC is like its cool. We can maintain anything. Because of all this, MTA is planning on sending 2400's to Spring Creek to bump 2200's to Eastchester, and 33/3400's to Yonkers. DOB is also supposed to be sending a couple Prevosts to EC, YO, and CP for evaluation and training.

 

As the next order will be the most fierce competition between MCI and Prevost to date, MTA wants to prepare for anything no matter who it's awarded to. 378 of the buses will be for BC, and the following year (2017) there will only be an order for 50 buses TA side. If it goes to Prevost, the days of MCI domination are officially over. If it goes to MCI, it will be the first large order since Bus Company was created. This is going to be very interesting! With New Flyer quietly building a facility in New York, their "NYS Build Content" will be greater than that of Nova's once it is complete. it would not surprise me at all if they are planning on finishing MCI buses there as well. Stay tuned.

 

When would this most likely happen? That's gonna be very interesting...

[East New York]

Specs for the upcoming fleets have been confirmed.

 

139 XD60's - Hanover Signs, Allison Transmissions, and ThermoKing HVAC's

138 XN40's - Hanover, Allison, TK

92 LFSA's   - Hanover, ZF, MCC (Carrier) HVAC's

 

Note: 8090-8503 have Axion(Luminator) Color signs on the front, side, and rear of the bus.

Note: MTA is not pleased with the performance of the new Luminator signs and have subsequently awarded contracts to Hanover.

Note: 5364-5438 are equipped with Axion Signs, ZF Transmissions, and MCC Carrier HVAC's. The TA has departed from all those specs for the next XD60 order.

 

The 110 isn't going to be 100% artic yet, these are mainly for the brewer routes and by the summer pick they want the 111,113 and 114 100% artic

 

The 110 isn't going to be 100% artic anytime soon. The only guaranteed runs you will see them on are 010, and 011. Both of which are interlined. Examples of runs you will likely never see them on are 008, and 009. 008 is QM4 then Q110. Run 009 is the 110, 111, 112, and 113 interlined. And they actually want the Q113, and 114 all artic. You will still get quite a few 40 footers on the Q111. Especially this time of morning, and the runs that are interlined with the Q112. So don't expect that route to be 100% artic anytime soon.

 

And to add to that, none of the lines will truly be 100% artic because a great majority of BP runs are interlined.

 

Out of 16 Q112 runs, all of them are interlined except for 2 with the Q64, 111, and 113. That's at least 13 40 foot runs that will make their way to the 111, and 113. Unless BP decides to ass artics to the Q112 which is possible, yet highly unlikely, we will continue to see standard buses on the routes for some time to come.

 

Are these 2400s coming from Staten Island...like Meredith OR 25 from Ulmer Park?

 

When would this most likely happen? That's gonna be very interesting...

 

I haven't been able to confirm the details as of yet. It will happen when the MTA completes their evaluation, and I'm not sure how far along they are as of right now. As soon as I have details, I will be sure to post.

 

Will the buses from 2011 on up get wrapped in the new scheme as was previously stated?

 

Yes, this is still the plan. Nothing has changed. However, there is a new  addition now. The Q70 buses will get a special light blue wrap as well.

 

For right now I think it's a few for the rush it will probably be 100% artic after the Q111/13/14.

 

And it's only evening rush. None are out in the morning like right now. All 40's on the Q110 at the moment.

[SubBus]

Thanks for the info.

I actually like the Hanover signs that are on the 4800s.

Any particular reason for not continuing with the Axion signs?

As far as the BP artic situation: At the end of the day, its the MTA and DOB toys and schedules....

 

 

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Edited June 13, 2016 by SubBus

[Around the Horn]

Ah, I love when this thread heats up!

 

Would the mandate to evaluate the whole bus fleet explain the transfers of Orion 7's from West Farms to Jackie Gleason and the 9600-series RTS back at Ulmer Park? (For a while the depot was entirely XD40 and 5000-series RTS)

 

And if BC does get 2400's from UP,  would UP receive some of their 2200's and 3400's to "replace" the testing units?

 

And one more question: When will we start to see buses repainted in the new scheme instead of the Decal Scheme?

[SubBus]

Thanks for the info.

I actually like the Hanover signs that are on the 4800s.

Any particular reason for not continuing with the Axion signs?

As far as the BP artic situation: At the end of the day, its the MTA and DOB toys and schedules....

 

 

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

Sorry for the double post...

 

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

[Future ENY OP]

Ah, I love when this thread heats up!

 

Would the mandate to evaluate the whole bus fleet explain the transfers of Orion 7's from West Farms to Jackie Gleason and the 9600-series RTS back at Ulmer Park? (For a while the depot was entirely XD40 and 5000-series RTS)

 

And if BC does get 2400's from UP, would UP receive some of their 2200's and 3400's to "replace" the testing units?

 

And one more question: When will we start to see buses repainted in the new scheme instead of the Decal Scheme?

Apparently the word is that Eastchester would get Spring Creek's 2200's since the next bus express order could consists of either MCI or Prevosts.

 

Honestly, I'd prefer the Eastchester buses come to Brooklyn so that it is a even trade. Just don't understand why drag Ulmer Park or Meredith to this. Sometimes the don't make sense. However, this is transportation logistics at its best.

[Fresh Pond]

Sorry for the double post...

 

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Its fixed

[SubBus]

Thanks

 

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[Cait Sith]

Specs for the upcoming fleets have been confirmed.

 

139 XD60's - Hanover Signs, Allison Transmissions, and ThermoKing HVAC's

138 XN40's - Hanover, Allison, TK

92 LFSA's   - Hanover, ZF, MCC (Carrier) HVAC's

 

Note: 8090-8503 have Axion(Luminator) Color signs on the front, side, and rear of the bus.

Note: MTA is not pleased with the performance of the new Luminator signs and have subsequently awarded contracts to Hanover.

Note: 5364-5438 are equipped with Axion Signs, ZF Transmissions, and MCC Carrier HVAC's. The TA has departed from all those specs for the next XD60 order.

 

That is such a bad idea. The way they're configured now are so much better than when 5364 was testing. Hell, MTA Bus' XD40s are way better than Transits...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Apparently the word is that Eastchester would get Spring Creek's 2200's since the next bus express order could consists of either MCI or Prevosts.

 

Honestly, I'd prefer the Eastchester buses come to Brooklyn so that it is a even trade. Just don't understand why drag Ulmer Park or Meredith to this. Sometimes the don't make sense. However, this is transportation logistics at its best.

How lovely... Spring Creek's 2200's are beat up.  Was on one on the BxM11 that broke down just Sunday.  Wheelchair door wouldn't close properly... 

 

On a side note, what is that stuff that Spring Creek put on the floors of those 2200's and other MCI buses?  It looks like some kind of sealant, which basically sealed in all of the dirt on the floor.  

Edited June 14, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[DaTransitMan4608]

How lovely... Spring Creek's 2200's are beat up. Was on one on the BxM11 that broke down just Sunday. Wheelchair door wouldn't close properly...

 

On a side note, what is that stuff that Spring Creek put on the floors of those 2200's and other MCI buses? It looks like some kind of sealant, which basically sealed in all of the dirt on the floor.

I always read your posts with an English accent for some reason. Just pointing that out.

 

Anywho, just a random question. How long does it take to load a wheelchair onto an MCI? I'm asking because I never see that on one of NJT's MCIs.

 

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

I always read your posts with an English accent for some reason. Just pointing that out.

 

Anywho, just a random question. How long does it take to load a wheelchair onto an MCI? I'm asking because I never see that on one of NJT's MCIs.

 

 

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Well I did live in Europe for a bit (although not England, but Europe nonetheless mate, but I've been around Brits enough I suppose). 

 

As for your other question, it depends on a number of factors (i.e. how competent/experienced the driver is operating the lift).  A competent driver can get the job done in 10-15 minutes.  An incompetent one can take a good 30 minutes, or in the worse case scenario, the bus breaks down and goes out of service.  There seems to be quite a few wheelchair users on the BxM4. I've had a wheelchair on the following routes: X10, BxM1, BxM2, BxM4, BxM10, BxM11.  The BxM2 and BxM4 seem to rival each other for some reason.   I remember a few years ago, there was an elderly woman in front of Mount Sinai trying to get the BxM4.  The first one passed her completely.  The next bus broke down trying to get her on (mind you at this time the BxM4 ran every hour, so that's two hours trying to get to Woodlawn).  After the second bus broke down, (the one I was on of course) she promised she would be filing a complaint along the lines of discrimination for not having been picked up the first time, and basically gave up on waiting yet another hour for the next BxM4 (couldn't say I blamed her).

 

I wonder if the would consider accelerating the next express bus order though.  Yonkers Depot has been experiencing more and more breakdowns, and their refusal to take more 2200's in the future likely means even older fleet should they get those 3400's down the road.  They are newer than their current fleet overall, but only by a year or two in most cases.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[East New York]

Yes the 2200's have gotten a work-out at SC, but those buses are very heavily used. Remember ridership on ALL Spring Creek routes have exploded since the MTA was taken over. Not only that, bus SC buses have long deadheads, and stop-and-go freeway traffic on a blazing hot day is very demanding on any vehicle.

 

For example. Run 591 Pulls out of SC, deadheads to Manhattan. Goes in service as BM4 back to Brooklyn. Deadheads back to manhattan, then goes in service on the BM5. Thats a lot of strain on a bus and thats ONLY 2 runs alone. So yes, Yonkers DOES NOT want them at all.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes the 2200's have gotten a work-out at SC, but those buses are very heavily used. Remember ridership on ALL Spring Creek routes have exploded since the MTA was taken over. Not only that, bus SC buses have long deadheads, and stop-and-go freeway traffic on a blazing hot day is very demanding on any vehicle.

 

For example. Run 591 Pulls out of SC, deadheads to Manhattan. Goes in service as BM4 back to Brooklyn. Deadheads back to manhattan, then goes in service on the BM5. Thats a lot of strain on a bus and thats ONLY 2 runs alone. So yes, Yonkers DOES NOT want them at all.

lol... Not that I'm complaining.  I think Eastchester's buses will be in better shape.  Fewer things broken on the inside.  Nevertheless, even as old as some of the Bus express buses are, they are still in much better shape than those old MCI Staten Island express buses.  Good AC overall, armrests work, mainly clean seats, etc.

[East New York]

lol... Not that I'm complaining.  I think Eastchester's buses will be in better shape.  Fewer things broken on the inside.  Nevertheless, even as old as some of the Bus express buses are, they are still in much better shape than those old MCI Staten Island express buses.  Good AC overall, armrests work, mainly clean seats, etc.

 

Very true. SI buses generally have more mileage on them and get a pounding a bit more than the other lines with maybe the exception of some of the BxM routes. And yes EC has great maintenance so they have no problem taking the buses from SC, and I'm sure they will be just fine up there as well.