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East New York

MTA Bus Operations: Fleet & Depots

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By here, do you mean WF / JG?

In New York(or are already built).

Edited by Cait Sith

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They actually have about about 24-26 out of service at the moment.

 

In other news, the first 2 of the new XN40's are here!! With 8 more on the way.

Any chance I could get a look? [emoji3] Oh,and any estimates on when they'll enter service?

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They actually have about about 24-26 out of service at the moment.

 

In other news, the first 2 of the new XN40's are here!! With 8 more on the way.

I can't wait on B35/16/43 bus but I didn't chance to ride on those repower Orion VII CNG yet

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They actually have about about 24-26 out of service at the moment.

In other news, the first 2 of the new XN40's are here!! With 8 more on the way.

Can't wait to ride on them they are going to look nice with the color scheme.

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I can't wait on B35/16/43 bus but I didn't chance to ride on those repower Orion VII CNG yet

There was only 2 that was repowered. 7691 recently retired, and 7746 is rolling alobg

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I got to ride those Orion VII CNG's at last. Both times on the B61 and they are some good buses but they sound totally different on the inside compared to the outside.

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I got to ride those Orion VII CNG's at last. Both times on the B61 and they are some good buses but they sound totally different on the inside compared to the outside.

The exhaust is what makes them sound like that on the outside.

Any chance I could get a look? [emoji3] Oh,and any estimates on when they'll enter service?

Man, have some patience!

 

It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to be asking these questions.They haven't even hit MTA property yet and folks are already asking questions for in-service debuts and such. At least let the buses get here first!

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The exhaust is what makes them sound like that on the outside.

Man, have some patience!

 

It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to be asking these questions.They haven't even hit MTA property yet and folks are already asking questions for in-service debuts and such. At least let the buses get here first!

 

It's the same thing every time a new model is delivered.  Same questions, same answers. 

 

They have to be accepted......................the mechanics have to learn how to repair them...............drivers have to be qualified/trained...........etc., etc., etc......

Edited by Bill from Maspeth

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It's the same thing every time a new model is delivered. Same questions, same answers.

 

They have to be accepted......................the mechanics have to learn how to repair them...............drivers have to be qualified/trained...........etc., etc., etc......

While this is true most of the time, ENY made it sound like the process is being accelerated and I believe he said the 700s would be rolling out of the factory by Labor Day.

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While this is true most of the time, ENY made it sound like the process is being accelerated and I believe he said the 700s would be rolling out of the factory by Labor Day.

 

Only the delivery process is being accelerated, not the entire process.

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A MAJOR update is coming to the title post in about 10 minutes. Lots of changes here so check those out everyone.

 

It's the same thing every time a new model is delivered.  Same questions, same answers. 

 

They have to be accepted......................the mechanics have to learn how to repair them...............drivers have to be qualified/trained...........etc., etc., etc......

  

 

Yep. For the last 8 years we go through this every time new bus info is posted. However, this time around as well as with the XD40's things have changed a bit. The process is still the same as you mentioned, but it's being sped up.

 

While this is true most of the time, ENY made it sound like the process is being accelerated and I believe he said the 700s would be rolling out of the factory by Labor Day.

 

 

 

Only the delivery process is being accelerated, not the entire process.

It's actually a little bit of both this time around Cait.

 

The whole process actually is being accelerated. With 5 pilots, this allows 1 for training and service, and 1 for maintenance training at each depot. Then the "Audit" bus for Zerega. This allows for the buses to enter service faster than anything we have seen to date.... While we may not be in the 700's yet, we will definitely be in the 690's within the next 14-21 days. 5 pilots are complete, and at least 6 production buses have made it off the line as well.

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A MAJOR update is coming to the title post in about 10 minutes. Lots of changes here so check those out everyone.

 

  

 

Yep. For the last 8 years we go through this every time new bus info is posted. However, this time around as well as with the XD40's things have changed a bit. The process is still the same as you mentioned, but it's being sped up.

 

 

 

 

It's actually a little bit of both this time around Cait.

 

The whole process actually is being accelerated. With 5 pilots, this allows 1 for training and service, and 1 for maintenance training at each depot. Then the "Audit" bus for Zerega. This allows for the buses to enter service faster than anything we have seen to date.... While we may not be in the 700's yet, we will definitely be in the 690's within the next 14-21 days. 5 pilots are complete, and at least 6 production buses have made it off the line as well.

 

Just wondering, are any of the other pilots (besides 676) already in, or making their way to the city?

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A MAJOR update is coming to the title post in about 10 minutes. Lots of changes here so check those out everyone.

 

The FIRST page has been updated by "East New York" and "The TransitMan". Most of your questions should be answered on the first page. Enjoy!

Edited by The TransitMan

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I see the MTA is going for Allison hybrids. Any reason for leaving BAE? King County Metro out here got XDE60s with the BAE E-series hybrid system and they are spectacular. They cruise at highway speeds with the engine idling and in general are much quieter and smoother than anything BAE or Allison previously put out. Great pull, too, handle some of the crazy hills out here as well as the XT40s and XT60s. Metro stuck with Allison for over a decade (except the Orions, obviously) before going BAE with their latest orders of XDE35/40/60s.

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I also find it interesting that the order for 75 hybrids will have Allison hybrid systems. BAE has been making inroads to several properties by using an aggressive pricing strategy (as of right now their system is priced roughly 50-60k less than the Allison from what I've seen).

 

That said, the MTA already has tons of buses with Allison transmissions, so it's not like they didn't previously do business with Allison or anything.

Edited by DaimlerBuses

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They cancelled the option order for 628 buses? I was really looking forward to that. Welp, I liked Cuomo for the new liveries, but not for the hybrid garbage.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

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Just wondering, are any of the other pilots (besides 676) already in, or making their way to the city?

674, 675, and 676 are all in New York somewhere, and 677 would be next, followed by 673.

 

I also find it interesting that the order for 75 hybrids will have Allison hybrid systems. BAE has been making inroads to several properties by using an aggressive pricing strategy (as of right now their system is priced roughly 50-60k less than the Allison from what I've seen).

 

That said, the MTA already has tons of buses with Allison transmissions, so it's not like they didn't previously do business with Allison or anything.

From what I am being told MTA wants to try out Allison now. They were not completely satisfied with the previous BAE system. Not only that, but the series hybrid system is not efficient on all the routes MTA has hybrid buses deployed on and they want to see if they will get greater efficiency the Allison parallel system. The BAE is costing the MTA much more to maintain than they expected it would. The buses in Queens for the most part are not fuel effient because they have so many routes that reach high speeds. In Manhattan, and Brooklyn the buses are more efficient because of the stop an go environment they are in. You know how the MTA is. Similar situation is the fact that they aren't too happy with Luminator, so the next 3 orders are confirmed for Hanover Displays.

 

I personally think the Allison is better for NY as I did from day one actually. Not to say that they aren't good systems because they definitely are. However, they belong in Manhattan. The new system is likely more efficient than the old, yet MTA wants to try out the Allison EP Drive at this time.

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Disappointed that they're choosing to go with Allisons for the hybrids. Those things are going to SUCK when it comes to climbing inclines! But seeing as how they're mainly going to stay in Manhattan, I guess it's the perfect test bed.

The new Allison configuration isn't all that great for stop & go either, so this will be interesting. I still think the new BAE's would've been the better choice, since they are largely in favor of fuel efficiency especially with the Series-E's best feature, the hush mode.

Edited by Cait Sith

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674, 675, and 676 are all in New York somewhere, and 677 would be next, followed by 673.

 

 

From what I am being told MTA wants to try out Allison now. They were not completely satisfied with the previous BAE system. Not only that, but the series hybrid system is not efficient on all the routes MTA has hybrid buses deployed on and they want to see if they will get greater efficiency the Allison parallel system. The BAE is costing the MTA much more to maintain than they expected it would. The buses in Queens for the most part are not fuel effient because they have so many routes that reach high speeds. In Manhattan, and Brooklyn the buses are more efficient because of the stop an go environment they are in. You know how the MTA is. Similar situation is the fact that they aren't too happy with Luminator, so the next 3 orders are confirmed for Hanover Displays.

 

I personally think the Allison is better for NY as I did from day one actually. Not to say that they aren't good systems because they definitely are. However, they belong in Manhattan. The new system is likely more efficient than the old, yet MTA wants to try out the Allison EP Drive at this time.

While I understand their reasoning for wanting to try the Allison system, I think they're going to be disappointed if they think the Allison system is going to be better than what BAE's putting out now. I may be staking a radical position...but I think the technology has matured enough over the years on both sides (Allison and BAE) that the old "Series hybrids for slow speeds, parallel hybrids for higher speeds" rationale of the past is irrelevant. It's a wash at the end of the day in terms of overall performance and the data would seem to prove that. Of course there are various factors that can affect fuel economy other than the operating profile, such as the software settings.

 

The truth is, it is generally accepted now that hybrid buses have a higher maintenance cost regardless of what system is employed and/or usage profile. The first few years the per mile cost looks great because all the expensive stuff is insulated by warranty coverage.

Edited by DaimlerBuses

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While I understand their reasoning for wanting to try the Allison system, I think they're going to be disappointed if they think the Allison system is going to be better than what BAE's putting out now. I may be staking a radical position...but I think the technology has matured enough over the years on both sides (Allison and BAE) that the old "Series hybrids for slow speeds, parallel hybrids for higher speeds" rationale of the past is irrelevant. It's a wash at the end of the day in terms of overall performance and the data would seem to prove that. Of course there are various factors that can affect fuel economy other than the operating profile, such as the software settings.

 

The truth is, it is generally accepted now that hybrid buses have a higher maintenance cost regardless of what system is employed and/or usage profile. The first few years the per mile cost looks great because all the expensive stuff is insulated by warranty coverage.

 

Yup. Whatever advantage parallel had for higher speeds isn't really there anymore. Out here, the new BAE E-series buses handle highways and hills better than the Allisons from 2011-2013. Once they're up to speed the engine idles (and does so very silently) and the bus cruises with ease. Maybe Allison has some new updates for their system that'll make it worth the MTA's time.

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with the new signs that can display different colors and on the q70 sbs displays the subway letters down the line could we possibly see destination signs that where if a bus line terminates at a subway station you could see the trains letter or # on the sign? 

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Disappointed that they're choosing to go with Allisons for the hybrids. Those things are going to SUCK when it comes to climbing inclines! But seeing as how they're mainly going to stay in Manhattan, I guess it's the perfect test bed.

 

The new Allison configuration isn't all that great for stop & go either, so this will be interesting. I still think the new BAE's would've been the better choice, since they are largely in favor of fuel efficiency especially with the Series-E's best feature, the hush mode.

 

MTA is big on the numbers these days, and as of now, the Allison is still a bit more efficient than the BAE. BAE's have more torque, and Allison is really big on fuel consumption. Hence LBSS on the diesels. (See documents below)

 

That being said, I think MTA will love them just for that fact. They don't care if the buses move slower. They just want them to be more efficient. We can vouch for that with the newest of the XD40's.

 

 

While I understand their reasoning for wanting to try the Allison system, I think they're going to be disappointed if they think the Allison system is going to be better than what BAE's putting out now. I may be staking a radical position...but I think the technology has matured enough over the years on both sides (Allison and BAE) that the old "Series hybrids for slow speeds, parallel hybrids for higher speeds" rationale of the past is irrelevant. It's a wash at the end of the day in terms of overall performance and the data would seem to prove that. Of course there are various factors that can affect fuel economy other than the operating profile, such as the software settings.

 

The truth is, it is generally accepted now that hybrid buses have a higher maintenance cost regardless of what system is employed and/or usage profile. The first few years the per mile cost looks great because all the expensive stuff is insulated by warranty coverage.

 

It really depends on what the numbers say in the end. That old rationale may be irrelevant now, but it wasn't when these buses were ordered. Not only that, it's cost MTA millions more than expected to maintain over the lifetime of the bus. Things were a bit rocky when the buses were new, and the definitely have a handle on things and know how to maintain the hell out of them now. 

 

I don't doubt the new BAE is better, and I am actually a huge fan of BAE since long before these hybrids came out. The data shows they are much more efficient than they used to be, and definitely much more competitive when it come to operating at higher speeds. Without the shadow of a doubt. MTA would be pleased with the new BAE if they did go for more in the future. I thought they were great then, and I still do, but they should have stuck to certain routes back then to maximize on efficiency. The new one's don't have that high speed issue like the older ones, and the battery conditioning schedules have changed to reflect. They aren't as efficient as MTA would like for them to be, but they get the job done, and it's clear they can run past 12 years with excellent maintenance. After all this time they have proven to be good platforms. MTA just wants to know if they can get greater efficiency out of the Allison. We also have to be fair when talking about these buses because the HybriDrive was actually launched at MTA.

 

I think going for the Allison is a great idea. It gives the TA a chance to try out the competition. I mean we somewhere around 1400 hybrids now, so these 75 are basically going to be test and Evaluation. BAE and Allison also use different batteries, and that's one of MTA's main issues with these buses. Because of the higher speeds that many of the buses (especially in Queens) reach, the batteries have to be conditioned more that originally thought. This was part of the reason MTA and TTC wanted to re-power buses. So they actually have several reasons as to why they want to try out Allison.

 

Another factor is maintenance training and costs. The Allison system is set up in a way that almost mirrors the diesel, and CNG transmissions. This means most mechanics will already be familiar with the basic concept and layout. Allison actually did this on purpose.

 

Now here are the numbers MTA has to for the BAE E-Series and the Allison EP. (Testing was carried out on XDE40's)

 

image_1.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

 

with the new signs that can display different colors and on the q70 sbs displays the subway letters down the line could we possibly see destination signs that where if a bus line terminates at a subway station you could see the trains letter or # on the sign? 

 

No. I don't see that happening anytime soon. Especially for any non SBS routes.

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After a bit of a delay, the New XD60's are finally on the way. The first of the pilots should have arrived in the state of New York a few hours ago. I will have more details on the delivery progress later this week. At this time it appears as if the MTA may have a preliminary assignment for them, however I have yet to confirm that.

Edited by East New York
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