MTA Bus Operations: Fleet & Depots

[danielhg121]

Speculation is they are going to manhattan. However, my guess is Mother Clara Hale (MCH) because like the Bx12's the 1200's were removed from SBS. And I think the next 1200's are the M15-SBS, but one thing, they have high mileage so idk if M15-SBS is the best choice.

Edited January 20, 2017 by danielhg121

[MTA Bus]

I want MCI to get this order. I love the look of the 2017 MCIs in NJ, plus MCIs are more comfortable to me tbh.

[Future ENY OP]

I want MCI to get this order. I love the look of the 2017 MCIs in NJ, plus MCIs are more comfortable to me tbh.

Yes. Those 2017 (NJ) Transit buses are superb. MCI's totally better in comfort.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Yes. Those 2017 (NJ) Transit buses are superb. MCI's totally better in comfort.

The only thing they shouldn't do (which I think they won't unless they really have to) if they order MCIs is over-spec or incorrectly spec them like NJT has been doing with their buses lately. The new MCI CNGs they got was spec'd with ISL G's, which in turn caused them problems, I'm not sure which specific problems but I'm gonna go with an educated guess that the engine simply wasn't made to handle the long and constant highway environment that the buses are subjected to. Now NJT was smart when they spec'd these newer MCIs (16001-2, 17001+). They put the ISX12 in them, an engine made for the highway. I guess they realized these were gonna be used on the longer routes (137, 196/197, 317, 319, 551/555, 553, 559) and wanted to reduce the breakdown rate.

 

Now the NABIs are a whole different story. I think had NJT not built the bus so cheap, it would've turned out a lot better. Remember that bus crash in Newark last year? I think the reason that one NABI tore in half was because the frame was cheap (speculating here). I think if you were to put say, two of MTA's O7 NGs (or any other MTA buses that are strong) in that same situation, the damage to the buses MAY be reparable.

 

From what I'm seeing with NJT's specs on these 2016-17 MCIs, they're getting better at spec'ing buses. Now this could be because they're getting a somewhat steady stream of funding now, and had to penny pinch before the gas tax was approved or they got a whole new spec team. Hopefully when it comes time to replace the Neoplans, they'll spec the XD60s (I have a very strong feeling they're gonna go to New Flyer for the Artic replacements) they won't over-spec it.

 

Okay now that my somewhat off topic NJT spec speech is done, I'm gonna get back to MTA. If the MTA goes with MCI for this Express Coach order, I know for certain it would be an investment that pays off. They've had MCIs for all these years now and they've held up pretty well. Plus when that new scheme for the Express buses comes out, it's gonna be fire on an MCI.

 

Have they figured out how this new Select Bus Scheme is gonna look? Or are they just gonna use the new blue and gold scheme on the SBS routes? I feel like it would be confusing for folks on say, the Bx12 if a local and a select pulled up and they were both in the same scheme (come on now, you know they're not gonna read the destination signs).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[Cait Sith]

The only thing they shouldn't do (which I think they won't unless they really have to) if they order MCIs is over-spec or incorrectly spec them like NJT has been doing with their buses lately. The new MCI CNGs they got was spec'd with ISL G's, which in turn caused them problems, I'm not sure which specific problems but I'm gonna go with an educated guess that the engine simply wasn't made to handle the long and constant highway environment that the buses are subjected to. Now NJT was smart when they spec'd these newer MCIs (16001-2, 17001+). They put the ISX12 in them, an engine made for the highway. I guess they realized these were gonna be used on the longer routes (137, 196/197, 317, 319, 551/555, 553, 559) and wanted to reduce the breakdown rate.

 

Now the NABIs are a whole different story. I think had NJT not built the bus so cheap, it would've turned out a lot better. Remember that bus crash in Newark last year? I think the reason that one NABI tore in half was because the frame was cheap (speculating here). I think if you were to put say, two of MTA's O7 NGs (or any other MTA buses that are strong) in that same situation, the damage to the buses MAY be reparable.

 

From what I'm seeing with NJT's specs on these 2016-17 MCIs, they're getting better at spec'ing buses. Now this could be because they're getting a somewhat steady stream of funding now, and had to penny pinch before the gas tax was approved or they got a whole new spec team. Hopefully when it comes time to replace the Neoplans, they'll spec the XD60s (I have a very strong feeling they're gonna go to New Flyer for the Artic replacements) they won't over-spec it.

 

Okay now that my somewhat off topic NJT spec speech is done, I'm gonna get back to MTA. If the MTA goes with MCI for this Express Coach order, I know for certain it would be an investment that pays off. They've had MCIs for all these years now and they've held up pretty well. Plus when that new scheme for the Express buses comes out, it's gonna be fire on an MCI.

 

Have they figured out how this new Select Bus Scheme is gonna look? Or are they just gonna use the new blue and gold scheme on the SBS routes? I feel like it would be confusing for folks on say, the Bx12 if a local and a select pulled up and they were both in the same scheme (come on now, you know they're not gonna read the destination signs).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

 

1. The ISL-G was the only available CNG engine at the time. New Jersey Transit had the option to wait 4-6 months for the ISX-G, but they were in dire need of buses to the point where some of the old CNGs were being ran illegally, and with others having renewed tanks, but retired early anyway. The ISX12 is a highway engine at 425HP, so it'll outperform a lot of buses, including the ever famous Series 60. However, it'll still break down like any other bus would.

 

The ISL-G wasn't really causing much problems until the maintenance supervisor & head of maintenance at Howell started doing dumb shit to them. Howell Garage screwed with those engines to the point where they break down often along with changing the transmission patterns to where there's no more 6th gear, but 5 gears, with long 2nd and 3rd gears. They did all of that just to get the engines running hot, since the engines were not getting hot enough.

 

On top of that, there's dozens of CNGs out of service over stupid things that garage doesn't want to fix.

 

2. The NABIs weren't cheap at all. NJ Transit overcustomized the hell out of those buses, hence why they're horribly spec'd. One quip about those NABIs is that the build quality is highly rated with its stainless steel frame and the composite body materials(which is not cheap by any means).

 

The Newark accident had those buses going over 30-40 miles per hour. Any bus, low floor, high floor, cheap, strongly built would get split in half just the same way those NABIs did, because that was a high impact accident(see this, as this is a prime example of a bus being totaled with a strong frame). The front ends of the NABIs fold in because that's their crumple zone, a zone in which reduces the impact on passengers.

 

3. Rumor has it that they won't get more artics, as they'll buy additional 40fters instead. But nothing has been confirmed. If they do get artics, they'll overspec them like usual, much like the Neoplans and the RTSs(which is why the RTSs got a rather early retirement).

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Cait Sith

[DaTransitMan4608]

1. The ISL-G was the only available CNG engine at the time. New Jersey Transit had the option to wait 4-6 months for the ISX-G, but they were in dire need of buses to the point where some of the old CNGs were being ran illegally, and with others having renewed tanks, but retired early anyway. The ISX12 is a highway engine at 425HP, so it'll outperform a lot of buses, including the ever famous Series 60. However, it'll still break down like any other bus would.

 

The ISL-G wasn't really causing much problems until the maintenance supervisor & head of maintenance at Howell started doing dumb shit to them. Howell Garage screwed with those engines to the point where they break down often along with changing the transmission patterns to where there's no more 6th gear, but 5 gears, with long 2nd and 3rd gears. They did all of that just to get the engines running hot, since the engines were not getting hot enough.

 

On top of that, there's dozens of CNGs out of service over stupid things that garage doesn't want to fix.

 

2. The NABIs weren't cheap at all. NJ Transit overcustomized the hell out of those buses, hence why they're horribly spec'd. One quip about those NABIs is that the build quality is highly rated with its stainless steel frame and the composite body materials(which is not cheap by any means).

 

The Newark accident had those buses going over 30-40 miles per hour. Any bus, low floor, high floor, cheap, strongly built would get split in half just the same way those NABIs did, because that was a high impact accident(see this, as this is a prime example of a bus being totaled with a strong frame). The front ends of the NABIs fold in because that's their crumple zone, a zone in which reduces the impact on passengers.

 

3. Rumor has it that they won't get more artics, as they'll buy additional 40fters instead. But nothing has been confirmed. If they do get artics, they'll overspec them like usual, much like the Neoplans and the RTSs(which is why the RTSs got a rather early retirement).

 

1 & 2: Ah I see now.

3: I know that's just a rumor right now, but with ridership increasing on the routes that utilize them, I don't see why NJT would opt against getting more artics. I hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot with this like they did with the DesignLine fiasco.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[Cait Sith]

1 & 2: Ah I see now.

3: I know that's just a rumor right now, but with ridership increasing on the routes that utilize them, I don't see why NJT would opt against getting more artics. I hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot with this like they did with the DesignLine fiasco.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

The issue with the artics is that the manufacturers would have to comply with their length qualifications to meet with the state axle requirements and lengths of said buses to meet with that. Nova is 62ft and New Flyer is 60ft, and its been said that neither manufacturer can fit all of their components in artic buses smaller than that.

[East New York]

The XN60 order is now official, and right on schedule as I expected. New Flyer will oficially be notified and awarded next week. We will get into the details a bit later this evening, but just a few high lights for now. Once New Flyer is notified and the board signs off, I will be able to get into more details of the contact. As many may remember it was reported to me a couple months ago that changes were being made to the order. Now that is has been finalized, some of the changes are highlighted below.

 

Summary:

 

2017-2018 New Flyer XN60 "Xcelsior Articulated

 

1000-1109

 

This is planned as an accelerated delivery. 5 Pilots (1000-1004) are scheduled to be delivered in September. Production delivery is then set to begin in March 2018 and run through November. This of course is pending on the schedule the pilot buses past audit inspection.

 

These buses will be delivered in new colors with WiFi, USB, brand new automated passenger counters, and pedestrian turn warning announcements.

Edited January 20, 2017 by East New York

[Cait Sith]

The XN60 order is now official, and right on schedule as I expected. New Flyer will oficially be notified and awarded next week. We will get into the details a bit later this evening, but just a few high lights for now. Once New Flyer is notified and the board signs off, I will be able to get into more details of the contact. As many may remember it was reported to me a couple months ago that changes were being made to the order. Now that is has been finalized, some of the changes are highlighted below.

 

Summary:

 

2017-2018 New Flyer XN60 "Xcelsior Articulated

 

1000-1109

 

This is planned as an accelerated delivery. 5 Pilots (1000-1004) are scheduled to be delivered in September. Production delivery is then set to begin in March 2018 and run through November. This of course is pending on the schedule the pilot buses past audit inspection.

 

These buses will be delivered in new colors with WiFi, USB, brand new automated passenger counters, and pedestrian turn warning announcements.

 

I think its worth noting that a portion of the work will be done in their Jamestown, New York facility.

 

.....yes, you guys read that right.

 

New Flyer now has a facility in New York State.

[RailBus63]

Has MTA tested the New Flyer XE40 like they did the Proterra?  I wouldn't mind seeing NF get the initial contract for NYC's electric buses, since Proterra seems to be a few years ahead of them in getting buses to the market.

 

Nova is developing its own version - the LFSe.  They are behind NF at this stage, though, since the first production buses were just recently delivered to Montreal.

[Q43LTD]

Dumb question, WF is supposed to get most of the XN60 order, right?

[danielhg121]

Yes, its too early to say but preliminary assignments are 30-36 to JG and 74-80 for WF.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[TransitJusticeForAll]

Here we have, is the brand new 2016-2017 Novabus LFSA #5439 on the Bx15 Bus route operating between The Hub (149 St) and Fordham Plaza. This bus will replace all 2002 New Flyer D60HFs and some 2003 New Flyer D60HFs. 91 of these remaining  newbies (#5440-5530) will be delivered between October 2017 & March 2018. 5439 is a pilot bus in evaluation. Buses are equipped with USB charging ports and free Wi-Fi.

 

[DaTransitMan4608]

Here we have, is the brand new 2016-2017 Novabus LFSA #5439 on the Bx15 Bus route operating between The Hub (149 St) and Fordham Plaza. This bus will replace all 2002 New Flyer D60HFs and some 2003 New Flyer D60HFs. 91 of these remaining newbies (#5440-5530) will be delivered between October 2017 & March 2018. 5439 is a pilot bus in evaluation. Buses are equipped with USB charging ports and free Wi-Fi. [Vid]

I was looking for it on BusTime earlier because I was gonna go ride it after the march. Guess I gotta try again this week after class starts.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[Cait Sith]

Here we have, is the brand new 2016-2017 Novabus LFSA #5439 on the Bx15 Bus route operating between The Hub (149 St) and Fordham Plaza. This bus will replace all 2002 New Flyer D60HFs and some 2003 New Flyer D60HFs. 91 of these remaining  newbies (#5440-5530) will be delivered between October 2017 & March 2018. 5439 is a pilot bus in evaluation. Buses are equipped with USB charging ports and free Wi-Fi.

 

 

For future reference, keep all your video posts off of the important topics.

 

I've noticed you've been posting them in every topic possible for clickbaiting reasons....either post them in the photos/videos section or don't bother at all, because you end up making a topic of the same thing anyway while posting videos in threads...

 

The next time you do this, I'm temporarily suspending your posting privileges.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Cait Sith

[danielhg121]

He keeps creating an entirely new thread and its been getting repetitive.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[MysteriousBtrain]

I've looked at the newest documents about bus deliveries and there are some things I like to point out:

628 40 fts for NYCT (10 hybrid)

190 60 fts for NYCT (10 hybrid)

275 40 fts for NYCT (all hybrid)

25 40 fts for MTA (all diesel)

50 all electric 40/60 fts

 

I wonder what all this could mean.....

[BDNQ2345]

I've looked at the newest documents about bus deliveries and there are some things I like to point out:

628 40 fts for NYCT (10 hybrid)

190 60 fts for NYCT (10 hybrid)

275 40 fts for NYCT (all hybrid)

25 40 fts for MTA (all diesel)

50 all electric 40/60 fts

 

I wonder what all this could mean.....

I thinks they gonna have NFL XD40/XDE40,XD60/XDE60, XE40/60 and/or Nova LFS/A, LFS/A HEV. Edited January 24, 2017 by BDNQ2345

[East New York]

I've looked at the newest documents about bus deliveries and there are some things I like to point out:

628 40 fts for NYCT (10 hybrid)

190 60 fts for NYCT (10 hybrid)

275 40 fts for NYCT (all hybrid)

25 40 fts for MTA (all diesel)

50 all electric 40/60 fts

I wonder what all this could mean.....

 

What documents are you referring to, because that information is incorrect?

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

What documents are you referring to, because that information is incorrect?

From this:

• Monday, January 23, 2017 -- Capital Program Oversight Committee

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/170123_1345_CPOC.pdf

[tlcohen]

That information is on page 16 of the document.

[East New York]

You are 100% Correct. What he posted confused me. Lol. Those are the hybrids I was talking about the orders may change in some capacity. I actually had no idea it was confirmed with any number. I totally over looked that last week when I did the update. When I got the documents they weren't in a pretty PowerPoint form like they are now, and I totally missed the hybrid part. Thank you for that! I just sent off an email requesting the details of these "Cuomo requested changes." Well, at least all my numbers were right!

 

My contact called me and said check your NYCFT post.... I also overlooked his note of the MTAB modification of 41 diesel 40 footers to 25. I also overlooked the part that calls for LG and JK's RTS to be replaced with artics, thus only needing an immediate requirement for 25 buses.

 

I want to stress that if I miss something, please don't hesitate to call me on it. I have so much information that I tend to speed read, and say " I already posted all that." Well, I did, but I read the hybrid part as still pending, and added all them into the numbers. On the heals of this it also plainly states (in my PDF report) that "Other alternative energy platforms are being considered"

 

So let's see how all this plays out and what type of "hybrids" these will be.

[T J Trainman]

Thanks for the info. I guess that's it for the RTSs Damn.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Man, it's time like this I wish Detroit Diesel was still in the transit bus market. There is no sound sweeter than a DD50 hooked up to an Allison. Especially on the D60HFs. 

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

You are 100% Correct. What he posted confused me. Lol. Those are the hybrids I was talking about the orders may change in some capacity. I actually had no idea it was confirmed with any number. I totally over looked that last week when I did the update. When I got the documents they weren't in a pretty PowerPoint form like they are now, and I totally missed the hybrid part. Thank you for that! I just sent off an email requesting the details of these "Cuomo requested changes." Well, at least all my numbers were right!

 

My contact called me and said check your NYCFT post.... I also overlooked his note of the MTAB modification of 41 diesel 40 footers to 25. I also overlooked the part that calls for LG and JK's RTS to be replaced with artics, thus only needing an immediate requirement for 25 buses.

 

I want to stress that if I miss something, please don't hesitate to call me on it. I have so much information that I tend to speed read, and say " I already posted all that." Well, I did, but I read the hybrid part as still pending, and added all them into the numbers. On the heals of this it also plainly states (in my PDF report) that "Other alternative energy platforms are being considered"

 

So let's see how all this plays out and what type of "hybrids" these will be.

Thanks for the update.

 

As for the MTA, it seems like this is an excellent time to test both Series/Parallel Hybrids side by side in both rigid and artic platforms but, it makes me wonder who the builder(s) will be... lol this is getting very interesting back to the waiting game...