20 years after Crown Heights riots, Brooklyn neighborhood's racial divisions slowly healing

[B35 via Church]

Via Garibaldi 8:

In response to: http://nyctransitforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=466869&postcount=21

 

 

Few things man....

 

- The supposed cultural diversity of crown heights is a flat out lie that was put out there by the media, but that's tertiary...

 

I'm not sayin not much has really changed.... I don't see how you can equate blacks & jews no longer rioting in crown heights, to me somehow believing that the neighborhood has not changed.... If there was any type of hatred b/w the 2 groups on that level in that community, I would have flat out said it - the blacks can't stand the jews & vice versa, but that's far the case...

 

way it is now, the jews stay to themselves; you won't see too many of em north of Eastern pkwy b/c that's not where they're at.... this fallacy that jews & blacks are (I'll borrow your word here) intermingling w/ each other, is just that..... a fallacy..... You will see more blacks on the jewish "side" than you ever will jews on the more black "side"..... I don't even have to hesitate to say that....

 

the jews there aren't near as vocal as they once were, b/c again, they don't have those numbers they did 20 years ago... there's a difference b/w [harmonizing] & [existing, or should I say making-do] in an area.... jews don't rep crown heights as much as they would, say williamsburg or borough park.... that's not to say they don't have pride in where they live, b/c the ones that are there, sure enough, do..... the Rabbi that said his piece in the article would tell you that much....

 

 

- yes, my faith in society is highly pessimistic, I aint makin no attempt to sugarcoat that either.... all I have to do is look around me, and (hell, forget about anything goinz on as far as politics or religion for a second), just sum up the "me first" attitude, the rudeness, false kindness, racism (implied or blatant), conartistry, crime, etc etc. that ppl. engage in, put it all in one huge ball and call it society.... Why do you think sheeple are so fascinated in "world war 3" and someone's "end of the world theories".... Society has long gone to pot, and there aint no amount of roundtable discussions that'll ever change that....

 

Why do you think the term "watch your back" has become so prevalent....

Nowadays, the term means so much more than the physical/literal interpretation of it......

 

 

- lol @ that story towards the end there.... that's a very bad example of the point you were tryna make with that.... simply conveying to me that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover (the eccentricity of that dude's dressing style), pales in comparison to havin ppl. tryna talk out whatever heated/hostile/heartfelt opposing differences (be it racism or w/e)....

 

You had nothin to lose either way in that situation.... If you assumed w/e you did about him, you wouldn't have spoken to the guy; he'd simply be one of the millions of ppl you'd never gotten the chance to know - there's a real loss, right...

 

So instead, you decided to be open enough to chop up game w/ him.... he got a couple hors d'oeuvres (or as ralph kramden would say, who doovers.... lol) tossed at him & a business card out of you, then the both of ya went on your merry ways.....

 

Try gettin the KKK mofo's (white supremacists) & the black panther mofo's (black supremacists) to come to that same end result as in your story there

[B35 via Church]

Shortline:

 

((ok, now this one I can quote directly))

 

bro (B35)London has a sizable Black population(mostly immigrants and their kids from Carribean and Africa that moved there in last 30-40 years.

 

So IMO the London riots had more in common with the LA Rodney King situation dealing w/ class war. Just like in LA, the British criminals i.e gangs took advanatge of the situation as there is massive unemployment among young adults and their anger the government has reduced public assistance checks.

 

However make no mistake the London riots did have some racial elements as the guy who was shot and killed by London Police was a Black man. People of Color throughout the UK have long accused the police mainly in London of police bruality/excessive force.

 

Crown Heights was very different IMO. So I disagree with Roadcrusier in which the Crown Heights and London have almost nothing in common.

 

Yeah I know there's a significant black population in London, England (the same ones that are quick to act like they're better than Americans, to boot).... The point was, racism isn't the main reason as to why they rioted out there in London.... that shooting is what "triggered" the events out there, so to speak....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Few things man....

 

- The supposed cultural diversity of crown heights is a flat out lie that was put out there by the media, but that's tertiary...

 

I'm not sayin not much has really changed.... I don't see how you can equate blacks & jews no longer rioting in crown heights, to me somehow believing that the neighborhood has not changed.... If there was any type of hatred b/w the 2 groups on that level in that community, I would have flat out said it - the blacks can't stand the jews & vice versa, but that's far the case...

 

way it is now, the jews stay to themselves; you won't see too many of em north of Eastern pkwy b/c that's not where they're at.... this fallacy that jews & blacks are (I'll borrow your word here) intermingling w/ each other, is just that..... a fallacy..... You will see more blacks on the jewish "side" than you ever will jews on the more black "side"..... I don't even have to hesitate to say that....

 

the jews there aren't near as vocal as they once were, b/c again, they don't have those numbers they did 20 years ago... there's a difference b/w [harmonizing] & [existing, or should I say making-do] in an area.... jews don't rep crown heights as much as they would, say williamsburg or borough park.... that's not to say they don't have pride in where they live, b/c the ones that are there, sure enough, do..... the Rabbi that said his piece in the article would tell you that much....

 

 

- yes, my faith in society is highly pessimistic, I aint makin no attempt to sugarcoat that either.... all I have to do is look around me, and (hell, forget about anything goinz on as far as politics or religion for a second), just sum up the "me first" attitude, the rudeness, false kindness, racism (implied or blatant), conartistry, crime, etc etc. that ppl. engage in, put it all in one huge ball and call it society.... Why do you think sheeple are so fascinated in "world war 3" and someone's "end of the world" theories.... Society has long gone to pot, and there aint no amount of roundtable discussions that'll ever change that....

 

Why do you think the term "watch your back" has become so prevalent....

Nowadays, the term means so much more than the physical/literal interpretation of it......

 

I have to admit that you make some very good valid points on several fronts...

 

- lol @ that story towards the end there.... that's a very bad example of the point you were tryna make with that.... simply conveying to me that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover (the eccentricity of that dude's dressing style), pales in comparison to havin ppl. tryna talk out whatever heated/hostile/heartfelt opposing differences (be it racism or w/e)....

 

You had nothin to lose either way in that situation.... If you assumed w/e you did about him, you wouldn't have spoken to the guy; he'd simply be one of the millions of ppl you'd never gotten the chance to know..... So you decided to be open enough to talk to him.... he got a couple hors d'oeuvres (or as ralph kramden would say, who doovers.... lol) tossed at him & a business card out of you, then the both of ya went on your merry ways.....

 

LOL... That's an interesting way of suming it up...

 

 

Try gettin the KKK mofo's (white supremacists) & the black panther mofo's (black supremacists) to come to that same end result as in your story there B)

 

Oh well yes, I wasn't exactly thinking about extreme folks, but rather folks that are in between that actually can be changed, though even some of the extreme folks have been changed.

[R68 Subway Car]

Talking about race sucks.

[SoSpectacular]

Talking about race sucks.

 

It's a very sensitive subject for a lot of us

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Talking about race sucks.

 

It's a very sensitive subject for a lot of us

 

Any topic can be discussed so long as folks are mature. Fear of the unknown does nothing but separates folks more.

[Shortline Bus]

Any topic can be discussed so long as folks are mature. Fear of the unknown does nothing but separates folks more.

 

Even sex? LOL:cool:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Even sex? LOL:cool:

 

lol... Well now someone has their mind in the gutter...

[SoSpectacular]

Any topic can be discussed so long as folks are mature. Fear of the unknown does nothing but separates folks more.

 

PLENTY of people cannot conduct themselves in an appropriate manner when it comes to this subject

[INDman]

It's a very sensitive subject for a lot of us

 

Then do not read the thread if you can't handle to subject matter. No oneness forcing you to be a part of this or any other conversation.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

PLENTY of people cannot conduct themselves in an appropriate manner when it comes to this subject

 

That's still no excuse not to discuss it. We've been discussing this so far like mature adults and I see no reason why the subject should be avoided just because it makes people feel "uncomfortable".

[SoSpectacular]

Then do not read the thread if you can't handle to subject matter. No oneness forcing you to be a part of this or any other conversation.

 

Yes, yes, like this thread doesn't pop up on my screen every now and then

 

Until you are in my shoes or anyone else like me you will NEVER understand.

 

I say this thread be locked or deleted

[INDman]

Yes, yes, like this thread doesn't pop up on my screen every now and then

 

Until you are in my shoes or anyone else like me you will NEVER understand.

 

I say this thread be locked or deleted

 

So this should be deleted or locked just be be quad you don't like it? Who died and put you in charge, get over your self some of us find these topics interesting.

[Joe]

Until you are in my shoes or anyone else like me you will NEVER understand.

 

That's awfully discriminatory. What do you mean by "or anyone else like me"?

[INDman]

I find this topic (Crown Heights) interesting because I took a class on race relations once that focused on what happened. That and I worked in Crown Heights Nfew times when I was with the parks dept. and I thought it was an interesting place.

[SoSpectacular]

That's awfully discriminatory. What do you mean by "or anyone else like me"?

 

Someone with viewpoints like mines.

[SoSpectacular]

So this should be deleted or locked just be be quad you don't like it? Who died and put you in charge, get over your self some of us find these topics interesting.

 

I put myself in charge. I'm a leader, not a follower

[Joe]

Someone with viewpoints like mines.

 

Nice side-stepping there. Afraid to give the real answer, I assume? Remember, racism is a two-way street.

[SoSpectacular]

Nice side-stepping there. Afraid to give the real answer, I assume? Remember, racism is a two-way street.

 

Believe me, race is nothing but a color to me.

 

I have friends of all races and colors

[Joe]

Believe me, race is nothing but a color to me.

 

I have friends of all races and colors

 

That's the usual line when someone is accused of discriminating based on race. Let's be honest here: just because someone isn't of a certain skin color doesn't mean they can't discuss an issue.

[SoSpectacular]

It's whatever. I don't even want to hear it.

 

This discussion should have stayed on the Daily News article where it belongs

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's the usual line when someone is accused of discriminating based on race. Let's be honest here: just because someone isn't of a certain skin color doesn't mean they can't discuss an issue.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

Believe me, race is nothing but a color to me.

 

I have friends of all races and colors

 

LOL... And you think because you have friends of all races of colors that that somehow changes things?? Not really.

 

It's whatever. I don't even want to hear it.

 

This discussion should have stayed on the Daily News article where it belongs

 

LOL.... Somebody is getting angry... Know what that means... The truth hurts...

[B35 via Church]

Throughout my commentary in here, I've been tryna think of another area where blacks & jews have a significant (enough) population in a particular neighborhood, enough to try to compare the living amongst each other of both races of ppl., to other neighborhoods....

 

In other words, how (or if) blacks/jews interact with each other in one neighborhood (like crown heights), as compared to ____________.......

 

(I) can't think of one; can't fill in that blank.... I guess midwood comes the closest, but that depends on the neighborhood boundaries, as it's not definitive/clearly defined (some say the eastern boundary is at ocean, some say at nostrand, some say at flatbush)...... Most (myself included) would deem midwood predominantly jewish....

 

- in borough park & riverdale, jews dominate; there's really no significant secondary race of ppl. that reside in either of those communities....

- in williamsburg, you have the jews (south of broadway) & the puerto ricans (more north of broadway)...

 

 

any help would be appreciated..... can name any area where blacks/jews live amongst each other, doesn't have to be within new york state.....

[East New York]

That's the usual line when someone is accused of discriminating based on race. Let's be honest here: just because someone isn't of a certain skin color doesn't mean they can't discuss an issue.

 

I think he was referring to where he is coming from with his opinion. I don't think he was saying anything about someone not being able to comment on something based on race or ethnicity.

 

He was basically saying that this is a sensitive topic for many African-Americans, and if you are not in those shoes you can't truly understand where he, or "people like him" are coming from.

 

It's whatever. I don't even want to hear it.

 

This discussion should have stayed on the Daily News article where it belongs

 

I have to disagree with that. I do however feel the same way as B35 on this subject.

 

The thing is, this is the Off Topic Lounge, which is for news and such. There is nothing wrong with discussing whatever is actively in the news.

 

If it's makes the news, there is a 99% chance it will be posted right here.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Throughout my commentary in here, I've been tryna think of another area where blacks & jews have a significant (enough) population in a particular neighborhood, enough to try to compare the living amongst each other of both races of ppl., to other neighborhoods....

 

In other words, how (or if) blacks/jews interact with each other in one neighborhood (like crown heights), as compared to ____________.......

 

(I) can't think of one; can't fill in that blank.... I guess midwood comes the closest, but that depends on the neighborhood boundaries, as it's not definitive/clearly defined (some say the eastern boundary is at ocean, some say at nostrand, some say at flatbush)...... Most (myself included) would deem midwood predominantly jewish....

 

- in borough park & riverdale, jews dominate; there's really no significant secondary race of ppl. that reside in either of those communities....

- in williamsburg, you have the jews (south of broadway) & the puerto ricans (more north of broadway)...

 

 

any help would be appreciated.....

 

This is my opinion, but I think the Jewish community is one that is tight knit and believe in their ways. I occasionally have a Rabbi who has translations done from Romanian to English and he is there in Borough Park. He's a very nice and smart guy and clearly open in that he is willing to step outside of his community to work with someone who is not of his faith or background. He has even tried to refer his peers to me.

 

From my days of living in Midwood and Sheepshead Bay where there are sizable populations of Jews (in Sheepshead Bay you also have Israelis as well), I will say that the Jews pretty much keep to themselves and they prefer to stick to what they know. You could call it a bit ignorant, but then again most ethnic groups are like that. Hell the Italians, we certainly are and while the blacks are too. For what it is worth we can look at Harlem and other historically black neighborhoods and see what is happening and how many blacks are angry for being pushed out.

 

I don't think it's a question of right or wrong either, but rather that we all have our prejudices. I mean we are human beings and we're not alike and we have our preferences and dislikes and so on.

 

 

I think that's part of the problem is that folks harp too much on saying that oh, we're all the same when we aren't. The focus should be more on understanding each others differences, which in turn will help us to understand ourselves more. I say this from my own personal experiences.

 

I have friends of all walks of life as well, but on the same token, I probably connect better with my Italian friends and my Latino friends because we share similar languages and backgrounds and just understand each other better. That doesn't take anything away from my Asian friends or Arabic friends or other ethnic friends (Irish, Jewish, etc.), but that's just how it is.