The sad story of Staten Island bus service. How would you cheer the borough up?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As far as improving SI bus service goes, here's an idea: When the new LFSAs come in, take some of the 2002-03 Galaxies (say 50 or so) and overhaul them completely, including a repower to a Cummins ISM configuration rated at least 300-330hp. Install suburban seats and overhead luggage racks, and use them on express bus lines during rush (particularly the X1/10/17) at current headways to alleviate the worst of the crowding. During middays and weekends use them as tripper buses on lines like the S79 that are long and prone to crowding.

 

 

 

Are you serious??? Those buses are fit for the garbage. You should take a ride on some of the M14s.... Filthy and not from any passengers either. Just dirty from a lack of cleaning. Besides, we have enough hand-me-downs as it is. We'll keep our old MCIs. Thank you very much. *Turns nose up in disgust* lol

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[engineerboy6561]

Are you serious??? Those buses are fit for the garbage. You should take a ride on some of the M14s.... Filthy and not from any passengers either. Just dirty from a lack of cleaning. Besides, we have enough hand-me-downs as it is. We'll keep our old MCIs. Thank you very much. *Turns nose up in disgust* lol

 

50 LFSA suburbans or XD60s would serve the same purpose and I'd be quite happy to see that too; I suggested the D60s simply because they're high floor (thus more seating capacity in a suburban layout) and I don't know if anyone else would make high floor artics for us anymore. Besides, I've been riding the D60s on the Bx1/2 on a daily to weekly basis ever since the first order came in and they've been through a lot but in my opinion they're not that bad and a thorough overhaul would of course include stripping out and replacing the interior so their current cleanliness or lack thereof would be a moot point. Besides, given some of the things you've said about the condition of the older MCIs out there a 2011 engine block, interior, destination sign system, etc. on a fully functional 2003 frame hardly sounds like a bad deal to me...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

50 LFSA suburbans or XD60s would serve the same purpose and I'd be quite happy to see that too; I suggested the D60s simply because they're high floor (thus more seating capacity in a suburban layout) and I don't know if anyone else would make high floor artics for us anymore. Besides, I've been riding the D60s on the Bx1/2 on a daily to weekly basis ever since the first order came in and they've been through a lot but in my opinion they're not that bad and a thorough overhaul would of course include stripping out and replacing the interior so their current cleanliness or lack thereof would be a moot point. Besides, given some of the things you've said about the condition of the older MCIs out there a 2011 engine block, interior, destination sign system, etc. on a fully functional 2003 frame hardly sounds like a bad deal to me...

 

What you're forgetting is that depots would need more space for artics which currently isn't an issue with MCIs. Also you're forgetting or don't know how many narrow streets Staten Island has. MCIs can be enough of a b*tch making turns on some streets, so artics would not work IMO.

[engineerboy6561]

What you're forgetting is that depots would need more space for artics which currently isn't an issue with MCIs. Also you're forgetting or don't know how many narrow streets Staten Island has. MCIs can be enough of a b*tch making turns on some streets, so artics would not work IMO.

 

There are currently four different depots on SI, two of which are brand new. I'm pretty sure one of them either has room and/or can be modified to have room fairly easily and cheaply. As far as the turning radius, the D60s actually have a 41' turning radius compared to the 43'3" turning radius on the NGs and the 47' turning radius on the D4500s and 102DL3s you guys have out there, so artics would actually make navigating SI streets easier.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[qjtransitmaster]

You know what here is a way to fix SI service.

 

STEP 1) adjust the schedules to have a more accurate representation of travel time and bus arrival.

 

2) upgrade express service like X17 and the X22 lines reroute some via I-78 and holland tunnel to cut travel time and offer additional travel opportunities.

 

These lines get rerouted X30,31,19,17(non J trips only) over the willowbrook expressway to 440 then one drop off at bayonne if (NOT X17) en route to manhattan the lines are closed door in NJ then they continue on their patterns in manhattan. This eliminates the gowanus nightmare sort of and adds additional travel options. But at off-peak hours when S89 is not running the X17 will serve bayonne open door then the next stop will literally be in hoboken on the streets en rte to the holland ridership will increase more so forcing the MTA to add sunday service and enhance X17 and even X22.

 

3) X22 can try a similar path then use West side hwy all buses on west side hwy will be open door at some stop locations to create some form of transit there.

 

4) S57 rerouted to port richmond ave then rte 440 en route to newark broad makes stops along 440 then after linciln hwy becomes closed door en rte to newark broad street via penn station. Ridership should skyrocket forcing frequency enhancement. S59 reroutes to absorb former S57 segment on decker ave to port richmond.

 

5) S54 reroute to absorb S66's jewett ave segment but will extend to journal sq bayonne will become a major transfer point. The segmant of S54 gets absorbed by extended S55 which will gain enhanced service before being rerouted to old bridge P&R via bricktown mall and perth amboy after perth amboy the line will provide service NJT's 139 does not provide S55 ends at old bridge park and ride transfer to NJT for service to other parts.

 

6)S56 goes to cheesquake park and ride transfer to academy for further service. Let NJT unleash their 60 line. S56 will extend via ocean terrance and rockland ave will replace S66 or former S60 segment either to st george or simply to castelton or via bement ave to w new brighton.

 

7) The rest will be decided by new route types. Beacause of reroutings the S66 becomes a duplicate thus warrenting complete elimination. However Before you comment how many ppl use S66 to reach howard ave???

 

I admit I am taking a gamble with the S55/56 but if that area is express dependant then those who don't go to manhattan most likely go to NJ and several areas in central NJ if I am not mistaken. If I am correct then the S55/56 will see a ridership increase that would garner huge demand if sucessful. The S57 and S54 I am taking a chance cause if service to NJ is weak but brooklyn and manhattan bound service is strong then the only thing left is to fix NJ bound service and take a chance if My hunch is right then the S57/54 extensions to NJ would force the MTA to improve service on thoose lines inspite of being in low density areas it's service to NJ can make up for it as ppl from other areas can transfer to these routes to get to certain areas in SI or NJ due to increase in ridership. The X17 idea is a sardine can waiting to happen and would literally put it in MTA's face that they have no choice but to upgrade express service. Cause the extra ridership will overwhelm the X17 and force out Extra express service as a side effect In addition to the other lines that will go via bayonne I am creating a recipe to force MTA's hand.

[qjtransitmaster]

As engineer said, it's a myth that artics can't make tight turns. Turns can be trickier for operators, but the buses mechanically fit. The only size restrictions for artics take place within depots, as a depot needs to be equipped for 60-foot buses.

 

I'm almost positive that Yukon is artic-ready, though Castleton I'm not sure. Anybody remember where the artics have tested out of in SI?

 

What buses in SI actually need arctics??? excuse my ignorance on that matter

[checkmatechamp13]

They said who, but I forget. It was on NY1 a few days ago and I heard it as I was coming out of the shower or something. In any event, they said some Staten Islanders were pissed off because once again they were "forgotten". LOL Not sure if a Staten Island sneaker will be added or not, but as of now none exists to my knowledge.

 

Wow. :tdown: (at the company of course)

 

reliability will only do so much you need to fill out the service gaps first. The S55/56 and 54 and 57 need a major point badly unfourtunately the only ones I can think of to boost usage are in NJ.

 

 

Like I said, the S54 can go to St. George.

[qjtransitmaster]

Wow. :tdown: (at the company of course)

 

 

 

Like I said, the S54 can go to St. George.

 

Actually you are kind of incorrect yes st george looks like a good place BUT it's faster to transfer at victory blvd and forest ave or even chasleton ave or richmond terrance. Should LTD service be enhanced then the S54 will lose most St george passengers to other lines. Therefore S54 to st george is just impractical. It's structure is crosstown so By having it go to NJ it keeps it's crosstown ability while gaining a major trip generator that will give ppl less reason to drive.

[Amtrak7]

Hopefully with the rollout of bus tracking the problem of buses not adhering to the schedule will be addressed. SI is like Nassau in that one either runs really hot or really late.

 

Somebody should make a screen-scraper for the bustime system and generate trip-by-trip OTP for the routes.

[B35 via Church]

Not gonna quote that long post of QJT's b/c my point is simple.....

 

 

Extending a bunch of routes to New Jersey won't fix bus service on Staten Island.....

If anything, that would make service worse.....

[qjtransitmaster]

Not gonna quote that long post of QJT's b/c my point is simple.....

 

 

Extending a bunch of routes to New Jersey won't fix bus service on Staten Island.....

If anything, that would make service worse.....

 

NOPE I am addressing service gaps. But reliability is the first step Bus tracking then when buses run better then the NJ routes can be made via extension on those routes only. Then the service would be complete and almost every possible trip to and from and within SI will be doable with any bus route in SI while using NJT to complete your trip should your destination be in NJ. Which would reduce the traffic in SI by a huge margin. If anything SI bus service would improve. Cause the crosstown lines that struggle will gain ridership forcing the low frequency problem to be reduced and then bus service will improve over time as ridership grows eliminating the weaknesses that held them back

[LRG]

As engineer said, it's a myth that artics can't make tight turns. Turns can be trickier for operators, but the buses mechanically fit. The only size restrictions for artics take place within depots, as a depot needs to be equipped for 60-foot buses.

 

I'm almost positive that Yukon is artic-ready, though Castleton I'm not sure. Anybody remember where the artics have tested out of in SI?

 

I don't recall ever seeing Artics in Staten Island, although I do remember hearing something about a D60HF that was supposed to be sent to SI for either the S53 and/or S79 back in the late winter, but bad weather prevented the test from happening.

[checkmatechamp13]

Actually you are kind of incorrect yes st george looks like a good place BUT it's faster to transfer at victory blvd and forest ave or even chasleton ave or richmond terrance. Should LTD service be enhanced then the S54 will lose most St george passengers to other lines. Therefore S54 to st george is just impractical. It's structure is crosstown so By having it go to NJ it keeps it's crosstown ability while gaining a major trip generator that will give ppl less reason to drive.

 

You have to consider that people don't want to make a whole bunch of transfers, especially at low frequencies. Yes, it is faster to transfer at Forest Avenue if the S48 shows up on time. If not, you not only wasted time on the transfer, but you risk missing the ferry as well.

 

A combination with the S42 would not only give S54 riders access to St. George (which is a reasonable destination by itself), but it would also give riders in New Brighton access to areas along Manor Road like Susan Wagner High School.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As engineer said, it's a myth that artics can't make tight turns. Turns can be trickier for operators, but the buses mechanically fit. The only size restrictions for artics take place within depots, as a depot needs to be equipped for 60-foot buses.

 

I'm almost positive that Yukon is artic-ready, though Castleton I'm not sure. Anybody remember where the artics have tested out of in SI?

 

There's no myth about it. There are some streets where the MCIs can barely make turns like on Forest and Manor, so there is NO WAY that an artic is going to be able to make that turn. Sorry, but it's not happening.

 

Aside from that I really don't know what is up with this obsession of using artics for express bus service. Just about all bus companies use coaches for express bus service around the country. Artics would work on some local lines and that's where they belong.

 

There are currently four different depots on SI, two of which are brand new. I'm pretty sure one of them either has room and/or can be modified to have room fairly easily and cheaply. As far as the turning radius, the D60s actually have a 41' turning radius compared to the 43'3" turning radius on the NGs and the 47' turning radius on the D4500s and 102DL3s you guys have out there, so artics would actually make navigating SI streets easier.

 

I disagree. There are too many narrow streets on Staten Island to place artics and turns will be very difficult in many cases. Artics could be placed on lines like the S79, but other than that there aren't too many lines where you could place artics. There is also a lack of bus stop space on many lines as well and people will throw a fit because there would be less parking. That's one reason why SBS on the S79 has been fiercely battled by residents.

 

You have to consider that people don't want to make a whole bunch of transfers, especially at low frequencies. Yes, it is faster to transfer at Forest Avenue if the S48 shows up on time. If not, you not only wasted time on the transfer, but you risk missing the ferry as well.

 

A combination with the S42 would not only give S54 riders access to St. George (which is a reasonable destination by itself), but it would also give riders in New Brighton access to areas along Manor Road like Susan Wagner High School.

 

 

Ugh... This is what annoys me about some of the comments on transportation for Staten Island... These people don't have a f*cking clue about the borough and they sit around and make these ridiculous suggestions for a borough that has a completely different layout in terms of our infrastructure and our needs. :mad:

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't recall ever seeing Artics in Staten Island, although I do remember hearing something about a D60HF that was supposed to be sent to SI for either the S53 and/or S79 back in the late winter, but bad weather prevented the test from happening.

 

those need arctics??? I thought SI had medium use

[qjtransitmaster]

You have to consider that people don't want to make a whole bunch of transfers, especially at low frequencies. Yes, it is faster to transfer at Forest Avenue if the S48 shows up on time. If not, you not only wasted time on the transfer, but you risk missing the ferry as well.

 

A combination with the S42 would not only give S54 riders access to St. George (which is a reasonable destination by itself), but it would also give riders in New Brighton access to areas along Manor Road like Susan Wagner High School.

 

again no need But yes S42 needs to extend and replace a segment on the S54 and maybe go to SI mall then S55 can go elsewhere like via jewett. S42 regains full time service but S54 sends to NJ but I may come up with something better soon I am not absolute on this issue

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

those need arctics??? I thought SI had medium use

 

Anyone debating whether Staten Island routes should have artics needs to look at the opening post. Please get back on topic which happens to deal with LOW ridership among Staten Island local buses.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) I disagree. There are too many narrow streets on Staten Island to place artics and turns will be very difficult in many cases. Artics could be placed on lines like the S79, but other than that there aren't too many lines where you could place artics. There is also a lack of bus stop space on many lines as well and people will throw a fit because there would be less parking. That's one reason why SBS on the S79 has been fiercely battled by residents.

 

2) Ugh... This is what annoys me about some of the comments on transportation for Staten Island... These people don't have a f*cking clue about the borough and they sit around and make these ridiculous suggestions for a borough that has a completely different layout in terms of our infrastructure and our needs. :mad:

 

1) They have a point in that narrow streets isn't an issue. A 60-foot artic is like 2 30-foot buses making a turn at once: It's harder for the drivers, but it is managable.

 

2) Well, that would all be fine and dandy if the ferry ran every 8-10 minutes like most subway lines, but when you're dealing with a ferry running every 30 minutes, the last thing you want to do is risk making another transfer.

 

Yes, maybe under normal circumstances, transferring would be faster than making stops on the hills in St. George, but things happen. Not only can a bus come late and cause you to miss the ferry, but a bus can come early, and you miss the bus and the ferry anyway.

 

again no need But yes S42 needs to extend and replace a segment on the S54 and maybe go to SI mall then S55 can go elsewhere like via jewett. S42 regains full time service but S54 sends to NJ but I may come up with something better soon I am not absolute on this issue

 

If you're going to use the S42 to replace a segment of the S54, what's the point in sending the S54 via New Jersey? I think you're vastly overestimating how much ridership will increase. No way is Manor Road going to support 2 services along the street.

 

Anyone debating whether Staten Island routes should have artics needs to look at the opening post. Please get back on topic which happens to deal with LOW ridership among Staten Island local buses.

 

A lot of routes have low ridership, but there are some routes that get high ridership (or average ridership for NYC). Also, just because a route gets low ridership doesn't mean it can't get crowded. Because of the suburban nature of SI, a lot of passengers travel longer distances than in urban areas, so the crowding level is the same.

 

Ask Yuki about his experiences with the N20/N21. They get crowded despite having under 10,000 riders per day.

[qjtransitmaster]

You have to consider that people don't want to make a whole bunch of transfers, especially at low frequencies. Yes, it is faster to transfer at Forest Avenue if the S48 shows up on time. If not, you not only wasted time on the transfer, but you risk missing the ferry as well.

 

A combination with the S42 would not only give S54 riders access to St. George (which is a reasonable destination by itself), but it would also give riders in New Brighton access to areas along Manor Road like Susan Wagner High School.

 

one problem on victory blvd you have S61 and S62 there is no excuse. The S98 needs to run all day enhancing reliability done don't complicate things by sending another route to st george.

 

But you did give me a senario with S54 senario 1 was send it to NJ and have manor rd segment replaced by enhanced S56 service. Senario 2 was merge S54's manor rd segment with S42 but then send S42 to SI mall via rockland ave. Then let S56 concentrate on central NJ to SI with enhanced service. S42 gains extra service but is interlined with some other routes. S54 again can go to the airport or elizbeth most likely just the airport

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) They have a point in that narrow streets isn't an issue. A 60-foot artic is like 2 30-foot buses making a turn at once: It's harder for the drivers, but it is managable.

 

And what point is that??? Where are these artics supposed to make stops at??You really believe that an artic can turn on a street like Forest Avenue onto Manor Rd??? I guess you're smoking something like the rest of them are...

[checkmatechamp13]

one problem on victory blvd you have S61 and S62 there is no excuse. The S98 needs to run all day enhancing reliability done don't complicate things by sending another route to st george.

 

1) If it's an extension of the S42, it's not "complicating things" by going to St. George.

 

2) And do you know how well they connect to the ferry? Sometimes, they're scheduled to miss it by a few minutes so there is an excuse. And sometimes they run hot and you'll miss the connection.

 

Yes, the S98 needs to run all day (and if it ran to Newark Airport, it would have the ridership to do so), but that's a seperate issue.

 

And some people will take a route if it offers a one-seat ride, even if it is circuitous. The S54 has a high percentage of seniors and even if it were combined with the S42, a lot of the riders along Manor Road would still be seniors. It's harder for them to go up and down the steps on the buses and they might be willing to take a longer ride if it is a one-seat ride. Plus, I'm sure there's people who come after a long day of work and they' rather sit back and relax rather than having to run to make a transfer.

 

And what point is that??? Where are these artics supposed to make stops at??You really believe that an artic can turn on a street like Forest Avenue onto Manor Rd??? I guess you're smoking something like the rest of them are...

 

Read the second part of the post. It's like 2 30-foot buses making the turn, which is actually easier than 1 40-foot bus making the turn, or at least that's what everybody says.

 

I think the Bx36 and Bx40/42 have artics and some of the streets are pretty narrow.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Read the second part of the post. It's like 2 30-foot buses making the turn, which is actually easier than 1 40-foot bus making the turn, or at least that's what everybody says.

 

I think the Bx36 and Bx40/42 have artics and some of the streets are pretty narrow.

 

 

I read it and you still didn't answer any of my questions... I'm not saying artics can't run on some routes, but they certainly CANNOT run on all SI local routes.

[checkmatechamp13]

I read it and you still didn't answer any of my questions... I'm not saying artics can't run on some routes, but they certainly CANNOT run on all SI local routes.

 

But if the reason why they can't run is because the streets are narrow, then that disproves your point.

 

In any case, there aren't a whole bunch of routes that actually need artics. Some are crowded at certain times, but there are only a few routes that are crowded for much of the day (and we all know they're the S48, S53, and S79)