The sad story of Staten Island bus service. How would you cheer the borough up?

[checkmatechamp13]

The combined frequency of several NJT rtes will make up for it hance why 99 and 26 will do well the 26 would end up with added service while the 99 creates a rte 439 route that previously did not exist that plus other NJT long distance routes that are possible.

 

But they have a different fare structure than NYCT. Not only are people not as used to the zoned fares, but those routes won't accept free transfers from NYC routes.

 

yeah, Broad st in elizabeth is very commercial... it's why those NJT routes down there all serve it in some fashion....

 

 

2a) ....and your commute would be two-to-three times as bad !

 

suburbs having hourly headways is a separate issue from what we're talkin about here.... I don't think you realize how you came off in even bringing that up.....

 

as for the other part/paragraph, it's not all about luring drivers out of their vehicles (that's more of an ideal goal of any transportation system).... the current riders of the system deserve better service.... don't forget the ppl. that decide to walk it out b/c they feel they can get to a certain destination before the bus even shows up - and there's enough of that goin on....

 

 

6a) I know ppl. do that for express buses... but ppl. actually drive up to catch locals?

If that's true, then you know service in general out there isn't adequate....

 

It's because he has a car. He works around Arthur Kill Road and Giffords Lane, and he stops at Bay Ridge on his way home from work. We live by Richmond Avenue and the SIE, so there wouldn't be a point in going back to Great Kills to pick up the car. Plus, the obvious advantage of going to Arrochar is that you get double the frequency, and he can avoid all of the stops on the S79.

 

If he didn't have a car, he'd probably just walk over to the ETC, get the S79, to Bay Ridge, and then take the S93 (or S53->S62 if it was too early) to get home.

 

And QJT, don't even think about suggesting the S59/S89 for him to get to work. At the time of the morning when he leaves, they just don't run frequently enough to rely on to get to work. We tried it a couple of times and a 10-15 minute drive took 40 minutes on transit.

[qjtransitmaster]

But they have a different fare structure than NYCT. Not only are people not as used to the zoned fares, but those routes won't accept free transfers from NYC routes.

 

It's because he has a car. He works around Arthur Kill Road and Giffords Lane, and he stops at Bay Ridge on his way home from work. We live by Richmond Avenue and the SIE, so there wouldn't be a point in going back to Great Kills to pick up the car. Plus, the obvious advantage of going to Arrochar is that you get double the frequency, and he can avoid all of the stops on the S79.

 

If he didn't have a car, he'd probably just walk over to the ETC, get the S79, to Bay Ridge, and then take the S93 (or S53->S62 if it was too early) to get home.

 

And QJT, don't even think about suggesting the S59/S89 for him to get to work. At the time of the morning when he leaves, they just don't run frequently enough to rely on to get to work. We tried it a couple of times and a 10-15 minute drive took 40 minutes on transit.

 

neither do buses out of port authority!!!!!!!!!!! ppl from NY going to NJ use NJtransit and are just fine with the zone fares SI ppl are no different the only difference is they no longer need manhattan to get NJT again using NJT lines costs the MTA NOTHING!!!!!!!! Also NJT would love the extra ridership and revenue for the lines extended. There are no MTA rtes that you can extend over I-278 without disrupting connections!!!!! Also MTA would have to create a new rte that is NOT cost neutral know how MTA thinks!!!!!!!

 

NJT lines after heading to elizbeth have very few important transfer obligations therefore after elizbeth going to SI would be a good choice or even brooklyn as an express rte. Well southern that is.

 

No I would not use S59/89 at all if I were him I would keep it simple and use S93 from S74 done or S84 that type of trip isn't compatible with S59/89 again know SI AND NJ before you suggest NJ/SI lines. The travel patterns of 278 don't just limit to elizbeth as a result NJT lines would be better as they would offer a 1 seat ride for some going to NJ. Also NJT would be able to have brooklyn bound express lines (formally locals) that would have a huge ridership base at least for southern brooklyn and SI. The rest of NYC can use port authority. S98 and 46 suffer from slow down issues that NJT lines simply do not have. 26 is not a slow line nor is the 52 NJT lines there do not have the bunching problems of the S98 Oh and you should have read via 8's other posts about local bus to NJ in certain cases ppl WILL NOT USE IT. NJT is express centric and therefore are better suited for the I-278 SI-NJ service all they need is to go on the highway and done. The S98 has obligations with the ferry it can't take the risk of dealing with bridge traffic. The reason why S54-57 will work is cause THEY DON'T MEET THE FERRY!!!!!!!!! The S98's purpose is to meet the ferry ppl from NJ will not go to st george!!!! The fare policy of NJT has nothing to do with the demand. Most ppl in SI use express bus and therefore will be able to adjust to NJT very well

[checkmatechamp13]

neither do buses out of port authority!!!!!!!!!!! ppl from NY going to NJ use NJtransit and are just fine with the zone fares SI ppl are no different the only difference is they no longer need manhattan to get NJT again using NJT lines costs the MTA NOTHING!!!!!!!! Also NJT would love the extra ridership and revenue for the lines extended. There are no MTA rtes that you can extend over I-278 without disrupting connections!!!!! Also MTA would have to create a new rte that is NOT cost neutral know how MTA thinks!!!!!!!

 

NJT lines after heading to elizbeth have very few important transfer obligations therefore after elizbeth going to SI would be a good choice or even brooklyn as an express rte. Well southern that is.

 

No I would not use S59/89 at all if I were him I would keep it simple and use S93 from S74 done or S84 that type of trip isn't compatible with S59/89 again know SI AND NJ before you suggest NJ/SI lines. The travel patterns of 278 don't just limit to elizbeth as a result NJT lines would be better as they would offer a 1 seat ride for some going to NJ. Also NJT would be able to have brooklyn bound express lines (formally locals) that would have a huge ridership base at least for southern brooklyn and SI. The rest of NYC can use port authority. S98 and 46 suffer from slow down issues that NJT lines simply do not have. 26 is not a slow line nor is the 52 NJT lines there do not have the bunching problems of the S98 Oh and you should have read via 8's other posts about local bus to NJ in certain cases ppl WILL NOT USE IT. NJT is express centric and therefore are better suited for the I-278 SI-NJ service all they need is to go on the highway and done. The S98 has obligations with the ferry it can't take the risk of dealing with bridge traffic. The reason why S54-57 will work is cause THEY DON'T MEET THE FERRY!!!!!!!!! The S98's purpose is to meet the ferry ppl from NJ will not go to st george!!!! The fare policy of NJT has nothing to do with the demand. Most ppl in SI use express bus and therefore will be able to adjust to NJT very well

 

I'm talking about going to work. It's a straight shot down Richmond Avenue from our neighborhood to his job, but it takes too long with the transfers.

 

And like I said, there's no point in backtracking to Great Kills to pick up the car.

 

And if NJT would make a profit by extending the line, why wouldn't the MTA make a profit? The S98 connects to most SI lines the same way the NJT routes connect with other NJT routes. And as far as the fares go, a person going to NJ would have to buy two different monthly passes (unless they lived near the NJT route): One for the MTA route and one for the NJT route. The SIers are the ridership base, it should be an SI route.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'm talking about going to work. It's a straight shot down Richmond Avenue from our neighborhood to his job, but it takes too long with the transfers.

 

And like I said, there's no point in backtracking to Great Kills to pick up the car.

 

And if NJT would make a profit by extending the line, why wouldn't the MTA make a profit? The S98 connects to most SI lines the same way the NJT routes connect with other NJT routes. And as far as the fares go, a person going to NJ would have to buy two different monthly passes (unless they lived near the NJT route): One for the MTA route and one for the NJT route. The SIers are the ridership base, it should be an SI route.

 

again cause NJT doesn't have to meet the ferry all they meet is other njt lines and superfrequent NEC service. Plus the ridership is a mixture of SI ppl AND NJITES!!!!!! Do ur self a favor try visiting NJ more or ask 553 guy or sirlapolka and other NJ ppl. Plus with S98 it only provides transfer opportunities. The S55/56 and 54 and 57 act like express rtes in NJ and connect to highway express buses like academy and NJT's rte 9 lines and several newark and journal sq rtes. S98 like gabradi 8 said has the local bus stigma that NJT's regional lines LACK!!!!!!! Plus the NJT rtes the reason why NJT would benefit is cause the lines would gain ppl who take 99 and 52 all the way into union cty and to other rtes plus one will use elmora ave the other is a simple extension. Plus those NJT lines will have BK ppl and SI cause the lines would only have a few SI stops before going express. Ohh NJT lines there are way more reliable!!!!!!! If the NJ SI route is not reliable ppl won't use it!!!!!!. NJT only has to hit the highway and make a few stops in SI. It's NJ routing is not slow period. But SI is another story S98 will fail due to forest ave traffic and the fact that one has to transfer again.

 

With the NJT plan ppl have choice with their travel and have to make fewer changes. Heck one can drive to the NJT line. S98 extension to NJ is as bad as the S78 bricktown mall extension!!!!!. Again NJT has less to do to make the service work. MTA will have to add SI ppl have no patience.

 

 

AGAIN most ppl going to NJ are not just going to elizbeth and would need an NJT pass ANYWAY. NJT would profit cause the rtes already have ridership bases with zone 1 2 and some 3 add in SI and brooklyn now you have extra zones for the lines with a new ridership base mixed into the current base so NJT would benefit more. S98 only has a flat fare therefore has limited growth potential as it would only gain forest ave ppl and those who transfered from others for free. While NJT has zone riders taking the lines over different distances from SI so they can make more from one than another as well as gain several variable ppl their profit potential is higher than MTA as a result. Plus an extention strains the S98's ferry ability if it did not serve the ferry it would be extendable but it's a ferry rte and therefore not NJ compatible. The NJT lines won't deal with forest ave's traffic cause they let u transfer to S98 if anything that alone will affect S98's demand. In addition the bus lane on SI expressway will protect the NJT lines en rte to brooklyn anyway.

 

Or it would force S93 to improve. S93 is however NJ compatible but only in a limited sense I haven't figured out S93 yet. Ohh in the words of via 8 himself the areas around S98 are wealthy they won't use a local bus to reach NJ. However an NJ express styled service that is closed door is better!!!!!!!! This way NJ bound ppl are not at a stand still. The areas around S54-57 don't have the standstill that is forest ave plus aren't ferry rtes and have no major hub so the only hub they can get is in NJ. S98 already has a hub and is at the mercy of forest ave traffic while S54-57 barely get delayed at all. S98 needs to stay in SI cause u will have cheapskates trying to use S98 to get to NY that is an NJT backlash waiting to happen!!!!!!!!!!! Which I would like to avoid as well as MTA.

[checkmatechamp13]

again cause NJT doesn't have to meet the ferry all they meet is other njt lines and superfrequent NEC service. Plus the ridership is a mixture of SI ppl AND NJITES!!!!!! Do ur self a favor try visiting NJ more or ask 553 guy or sirlapolka and other NJ ppl. Plus with S98 it only provides transfer opportunities. The S55/56 and 54 and 57 act like express rtes in NJ and connect to highway express buses like academy and NJT's rte 9 lines and several newark and journal sq rtes. S98 like gabradi 8 said has the local bus stigma that NJT's regional lines LACK!!!!!!! Plus the NJT rtes the reason why NJT would benefit is cause the lines would gain ppl who take 99 and 52 all the way into union cty and to other rtes plus one will use elmora ave the other is a simple extension. Plus those NJT lines will have BK ppl and SI cause the lines would only have a few SI stops before going express. AGAIN most ppl going to NJ are not just going to elizbeth and would need an NJT pass ANYWAY. NJT would profit cause the rtes already have ridership bases with zone 1 2 and some 3 add in SI and brooklyn now you have extra zones for the lines with a new ridership base mixed into the current base so NJT would benefit more. S98 only has a flat fare therefore has limited growth potential as it would only gain forest ave ppl and those who transfered from others for free. While NJT has zone riders taking the lines over different distances from SI so they can make more from one than another as well as gain several variable ppl their profit potential is higher than MTA as a result. Plus an extention strains the S98's ferry ability if it did not serve the ferry it would be extendable but it's a ferry rte and therefore not NJ compatible. The NJT lines won't deal with forest ave's traffic cause they let u transfer to S98 if anything that alone will affect S98's demand. In addition the bus lane on SI expressway will protect the NJT lines en rte to brooklyn anyway. Or it would force S93 to improve. S93 is however NJ compatible but only in a limited sense I haven't figured out S93 yet. Ohh in the words of via 8 himself the areas around S98 are wealthy they won't use a local bus to reach NJ. However an NJ express styled service that is closed door is better!!!!!!!! This way NJ bound ppl are not at a stand still. The areas around S54-57 don't have the standstill that is forest ave plus aren't ferry rtes and have no major hub so the only hub they can get is in NJ. S98 already has a hub and is at the mercy of forest ave traffic while S54-57 barely get delayed at all. S98 needs to stay in SI cause u will have cheapskates trying to use S98 to get to NY that is an NJT backlash waiting to happen!!!!!!!!!!! Which I would like to avoid as well as MTA.

 

Ugh. Could you break your comments down into paragraphs? You're going back to your old habits of posting a huge wall of text.

 

And if the NJT route uses the SIE bus lane, it can't make any stops (east of Slosson Avenue at least).

 

To get rid of the local bus stigma, the MTA could put suburban seating on the S98, but of course that wouldn't work if it decided to replace some MCIs with suburban buses (the people would be paying $5.50 for something that other riders get for $2.25).

 

And only certain areas that the S98 serves are "affluent" (I wouldn't really call them that. To me, "affluent", means an area like Todt Hill. Most of those areas are upper-middle class at best). Mariners' Harbor isn't affluent, and neither is Port Richmond.

 

And even if there is a lot of traffic along Forest Avenue, the S98 would become an even stronger route if it were extended (and like I said, even the cheapest person in the world wouldn't take the S98 to the ferry over the 62 to the PATH. It would take much longer and save like $20 per month for somebody going to Lower Manhattan.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ugh. Could you break your comments down into paragraphs? You're going back to your old habits of posting a huge wall of text.

 

LOL :eek:

[B35 via Church]

It's because he has a car. He works around Arthur Kill Road and Giffords Lane, and he stops at Bay Ridge on his way home from work. We live by Richmond Avenue and the SIE, so there wouldn't be a point in going back to Great Kills to pick up the car. Plus, the obvious advantage of going to Arrochar is that you get double the frequency, and he can avoid all of the stops on the S79.

 

Everything directed to me in that reply of yours had to do w/ point "6a"..... Dunno why you quoted "2a", but anyway....

 

I should hope he has a car, or some other personal vehicle....

How else do you drive somewhere w/o a vehicle to get you there.....

 

Did you think I thought the man carpooled or something?

[checkmatechamp13]

Everything directed to me in that reply of yours had to do w/ point "6a"..... Dunno why you quoted "2a", but anyway....

 

I should hope he has a car, or some other personal vehicle....

How else do you drive somewhere w/o a vehicle to get you there.....

 

Did you think I thought the man carpooled or something?

 

But I'm saying he only did that because he had the car and didn't want to backtrack to pick it up. If he didn't bring the car along, he would probably be content with taking the S79 to Bay Ridge and the S93 back. In the afternoon, he's not in as much of a hurry to get home.

 

As far as 2a goes, SI riders generally travel for longer distances (on average) than those in the other boroughs. Realistically, it's probably a minimal amount of riders that get fed up with waiting and decide to walk it out.

 

And aren't the levels of service offered in the suburbs relevant to this discussion, considering the fact that we're talking about frequency of SI routes.

 

I hate to bring up stats, but SI's population density is about 8,000 people per square mile. Nassau County's population density is about 4,700 people per square mile. I would say that, on average, SI receives about 1.5 times as much service as Nassau (SI doesn't have any hourly routes, and there are more bi-hourly routes in Nassau than SI).

[qjtransitmaster]

But I'm saying he only did that because he had the car and didn't want to backtrack to pick it up. If he didn't bring the car along, he would probably be content with taking the S79 to Bay Ridge and the S93 back. In the afternoon, he's not in as much of a hurry to get home.

 

As far as 2a goes, SI riders generally travel for longer distances (on average) than those in the other boroughs. Realistically, it's probably a minimal amount of riders that get fed up with waiting and decide to walk it out.

 

And aren't the levels of service offered in the suburbs relevant to this discussion, considering the fact that we're talking about frequency of SI routes.

 

I hate to bring up stats, but SI's population density is about 8,000 people per square mile. Nassau County's population density is about 4,700 people per square mile. I would say that, on average, SI receives about 1.5 times as much service as Nassau (SI doesn't have any hourly routes, and there are more bi-hourly routes in Nassau than SI).

 

there are NO bihourly rtes in nassau or SI.

[checkmatechamp13]

there are NO bihourly rtes in nassau or SI.

 

I meant routes that come every 30 minutes.

[qjtransitmaster]

Ugh. Could you break your comments down into paragraphs? You're going back to your old habits of posting a huge wall of text.

 

And if the NJT route uses the SIE bus lane, it can't make any stops (east of Slosson Avenue at least).

 

To get rid of the local bus stigma, the MTA could put suburban seating on the S98, but of course that wouldn't work if it decided to replace some MCIs with suburban buses (the people would be paying $5.50 for something that other riders get for $2.25).

 

And only certain areas that the S98 serves are "affluent" (I wouldn't really call them that. To me, "affluent", means an area like Todt Hill. Most of those areas are upper-middle class at best). Mariners' Harbor isn't affluent, and neither is Port Richmond.

 

And even if there is a lot of traffic along Forest Avenue, the S98 would become an even stronger route if it were extended (and like I said, even the cheapest person in the world wouldn't take the S98 to the ferry over the 62 to the PATH. It would take much longer and save like $20 per month for somebody going to Lower Manhattan.)

exactly the bus will make no stops east of slosson cause it's express with a transfer point for linking to S98 and another for victory blvd lines then non-stop to brooklyn. NJT doesn't deal with the traffic hell that is forest ave!!!!!!! 99 doesn't neither does 52 and 26 so the NJT lines would be more reliable!!!!!!!!! Plus NJT already has suburban seats meaning no work for MTA. The only reason why S55/56 are different is they link to long distance routes at park and rides that have frequent service at least from old bridge. Not many NJT routes can head to SI or bk and link with academy or old bridge. The 139 isn't fit to take risk like that unless you reroute NJT 64 via SI and add stops there at park and rides however you would have to enhance service then to full time. Also there is the pressure to provide service and link with academy a pressure that MTA won't have to deal with. S54/57 again there is no express rte to newark or secaucus last I checked HBLR to PATH is a bitch that is 3 transfers!!!!!!! too time consuming and impractical. The newark S57 is for getting to the heart of NJ as well as get to NJ express lines that can be created to make 700 series more efficient. In addition train service on montclair line and bergen via S54 through journal sq SI NJ lines are closed door.

[checkmatechamp13]

exactly the bus will make no stops east of slosson cause it's express with a transfer point for linking to S98 and another for victory blvd lines then non-stop to brooklyn. NJT doesn't deal with the traffic hell that is forest ave!!!!!!! 99 doesn't neither does 52 and 26 so the NJT lines would be more reliable!!!!!!!!! Plus NJT already has suburban seats meaning no work for MTA. The only reason why S55/56 are different is they link to long distance routes at park and rides that have frequent service at least from old bridge. Not many NJT routes can head to SI or bk and link with academy or old bridge. The 139 isn't fit to take risk like that unless you reroute NJT 64 via SI and add stops there at park and rides however you would have to enhance service then to full time. Also there is the pressure to provide service and link with academy a pressure that MTA won't have to deal with. S54/57 again there is no express rte to newark or secaucus last I checked HBLR to PATH is a bitch that is 3 transfers!!!!!!! too time consuming and impractical. The newark S57 is for getting to the heart of NJ as well as get to NJ express lines that can be created to make 700 series more efficient. In addition train service on montclair line and bergen via S54 through journal sq SI NJ lines are closed door.

 

Like I said, the point of the S98 would be so it gets heavy ridership and Forest Avenue ends up with a large increase in service.

 

But your route would benefit me personally more than the S98 would (though I don't go to NJ that often)

[qjtransitmaster]

Like I said, the point of the S98 would be so it gets heavy ridership and Forest Avenue ends up with a large increase in service.

 

But your route would benefit me personally more than the S98 would (though I don't go to NJ that often)

 

err I guess that is a side effect by the way One of the NJT extensions will link to S98 manipulating it's demand since you want S98 so badly fine send it to linden train station done. At rush hr use S93. S93 splits some trips go to raritan center others go to linden. Use NJT for airport service.