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For the First time, J/Z Ranks No. 1... 2 and C come in dead last


tvega961

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Subway riders on the J/Z line should be riding high as the Straphangers Campaign for the first time has rated it best in the city.

 

The 14th State of the Subways Report Card - an annual review that looks at train cleanliness, frequency of service and other aspects of service - dubbed the No. 2 and C lines the worst of the bunch.

 

The report valued the price of a ride on the J/Z line at $1.45 while saying a trip on the No. 2 and C lines was worth just 90 cents.

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/08/24/2011-08-24_new_york_citys_best_subway_line_j_and_z_trains_win_top_honor_for_the_first_time.html#ixzz1W2oAjiV7

 

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Official Straphagers Report: http://www.straphangers.org/statesub11/State%20of%20the%20Subways%202011_sm.pdf

 

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Summer Report Card is here, (J) and (Z) come in at first, while the (2) and (C) comes in last, any thoughts?

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Guest lance25

Strappies really needs to stop pointing out the obvious. Basically, it boils down to: old cars break down faster than newer ones, the Lex is crowded because it's the only line east of Fifth Avenue, the (2) sucks because it's a long line from Wakefield to Flatbush Av, running local along most of its route and NTTs make better announcements with Bloomberg's gang doing most of the talking. Go figure. I could've come up with the same results in five minutes if I felt like it.

 

As for the (J) and (Z) moving to the top, I think it may have something to do with the (M) being rerouted up Sixth Avenue. Currently, the (J)/(Z) and (M) are together only between Myrtle Av and Essex St, as opposed to before where all three lines ran together all the way down to Broad St.

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Even funnier is how the report doesn't even take into account the high weekend headaways on the (2) [as well as the (3) and (5)] Granted, after the headaway increase on the vast majority of B-Division weekend service last year, they don't stick out as much.

 

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Doesn't really surprise me that the (2) is one of the hardest routes to find rush-hour seats on. I can't comment much on the situation in the Bronx, but in Brooklyn I do sometimes get the feeling people would rather take the (2) to the (4) at Franklin, rather than the (5). Worth noting is that the (5) was rated worst on 'Regularity of service', that likely is part of it.

 

 

At Flatbush Avenue station, the Bronx-bound (2) and (5) trains are segregated, leaving from different platforms. To access one platform from the other, you have to walk down to the end of the station and back up around, which I imagine some people simply don't want to do.

 

The thing is, a lot of the bus lines stop closer to the 2's platforms.

More specifically, the B41, B44, and B103 (the runs going to Downton Brooklyn) all stop right near entrances leading to the 2 train's platform. The Q35 and B103 short-turns give people the option of crossing the street to the Avenue H entrance (the only one serving both the 2 and 5 platforms) or just walk up the block to the 2 exit. The B6 physically stops closer to the 5 platform entrance but requires you to cross the street twice instead of the once needed to reach the 2.

 

The only entrances leading to the (5) platform are located on the big island block between Nostrand Av, Glenwood Rd, and Avenue H. Meaning that, unless you're coming from Glenwood Road/the B6, you'll have to wait for the Nostrand Ave traffic and the Flatbush Ave traffic to cross, which takes up time.

 

Now this is not to say the 5 at Flatbush Av doesn't get used or that people don't walk down and around to the 5, just that a large number of people are already predisposed to get on the 2.

 

[And really, what would you do? Walk down and around to the 5, or get on the 2 train sitting right there?]

 

Know this was long, but hopefully I got the point across.

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for one the (2) is one of the longest lines with it going from the north of the city all the way south too flatbush. but its nice the NTTS or the R142 is great, good announcements that are clear all the time. now if you think you can get a seat in nyc in the middle of rush hour your nuts. this city is way too over crowded for that and its not possible. they need too stop thinking they can get a seat on a over crowded system i dont ever really have a problem with the (2) or (5)

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Guest lance25
I find it hard to believe that the (4) is rated lower than the (5).

 

According to the report, car breakdowns really brought down the (4). I don't know what Jerome is doing, but based on the report, Unionport's cars last a whole lot longer than theirs.

 

Then there's the seat availability. You have to remember that the (5) runs express in the Bronx between E 180 St and 3 Av-149 St, making it slightly more likely that one will get a seat in Manhattan. The (4) however, makes all stops in the Bronx, meaning the train is much more likely to be crowded. You could really tell the difference during the <4> pilot back in 2009.

 

The above also applies to car cleanliness. Less people equals less garbage.

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for one the (2) is one of the longest lines with it going from the north of the city all the way south too flatbush. but its nice the NTTS or the R142 is great, good announcements that are clear all the time. now if you think you can get a seat in nyc in the middle of rush hour your nuts. this city is way too over crowded for that and its not possible. they need too stop thinking they can get a seat on a over crowded system i dont ever really have a problem with the (2) or (5)

 

I'm sorry to spill the beans, but the report is spot on about the (2) and the (5). Both lines suck in terms of the frequency in which they run and as such are overcrowded. As far as I'm concerned, the ten worst lines in the city in no particular order are as follows:

 

(2) (Frequencies suck).

(5) (Thank God the (4) runs okay because if it didn't it would really suck).

(D) (Frequencies suck. Takes forever for a train to arrive in Manhattan).

(:( (Frequencies suck ROYALLY and the cars always stink, esp. in Manhattan since they are always overcrowded).

(A) (Frequencies suck. It's always hit or miss on that line).

(C) (Frequency is okay for the most part, but the cars suck).

(R) (SLOW, SLOW, SLOW! The frequencies suck right along with the trains used on the line)

(G) (filthy cars and the frequencies are HORRIBLE - 20 - 25 minutes for a friggin train on Saturday is RIDICULOUS!) :mad:

(3) (runs okay, but the cars are rather dirty IMO)

(F) (frequencies are TERRIBLE on weekends - takes forever to get to 2nd Avenue) :mad:

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According to the report, car breakdowns really brought down the (4). I don't know what Jerome is doing, but based on the report, Unionport's cars last a whole lot longer than theirs.

 

Then there's the seat availability. You have to remember that the (5) runs express in the Bronx between E 180 St and 3 Av-149 St, making it slightly more likely that one will get a seat in Manhattan. The (4) however, makes all stops in the Bronx, meaning the train is much more likely to be crowded. You could really tell the difference during the <4> pilot back in 2009.

 

The above also applies to car cleanliness. Less people equals less garbage.

 

I'll give them the fleet reliability issue, but thats all. The (5) is on par with the (4) in terms of dirty subway cars and getting a seat, especially since the line was extended to Brooklyn College (even without the extension, the (5) is usually full until E180th). Plus the (4) is more reliable and comes more frequently. For every two (4) trains youll get one (5) train, always been the case with those two lines.

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I'll give them the fleet reliability issue, but thats all. The (5) is on par with the (4) in terms of dirty subway cars and getting a seat, especially since the line was extended to Brooklyn College (even without the extension, the (5) is usually full until E180th). Plus the (4) is more reliable and comes more frequently. For every two (4) trains youll get one (5) train, always been the case with those two lines.

 

 

It's funny how many people observe how the (MTA) runs things in this city. I wonder if they actually realize this or they think we're just stupid...

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I'm sorry to spill the beans, but the report is spot on about the (2) and the (5). Both lines suck in terms of the frequency in which they run and as such are overcrowded. As far as I'm concerned, the ten worst lines in the city in no particular order are as follows:

 

(2) (Frequencies suck).

(5) (Thank God the (4) runs okay because if it didn't it would really suck).

(D) (Frequencies suck. Takes forever for a train to arrive in Manhattan).

(:( (Frequencies suck ROYALLY and the cars always stink, esp. in Manhattan since they are always overcrowded).

(A) (Frequencies suck. It's always hit or miss on that line).

(C) (Frequency is okay for the most part, but the cars suck).

(R) (SLOW, SLOW, SLOW! The frequencies suck right along with the trains used on the line)

(G) (filthy cars and the frequencies are HORRIBLE - 20 - 25 minutes for a friggin train on Saturday is RIDICULOUS!) :mad:

(3) (runs okay, but the cars are rather dirty IMO)

(M) (frequencies are TERRIBLE on weekends - takes forever to get to 2nd Avenue) :mad:

 

So in other words, frequency sucks on most subway lines according to your perspective. You can't make trains too frequent that'll clog the lines. You can't have too many (A) trains for example without comprising the (D) trains, that's just not right.

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I'll give them the fleet reliability issue, but thats all. The (5) is on par with the (4) in terms of dirty subway cars and getting a seat, especially since the line was extended to Brooklyn College (even without the extension, the (5) is usually full until E180th). Plus the (4) is more reliable and comes more frequently. For every two (4) trains youll get one (5) train, always been the case with those two lines.

 

During certain parts of Rush Hour and on weekends, yes. However, during the midday hours, the (5) is scheduled to run with equal frequency to the (4). When Midday (5) service was extended to Brooklyn, (4) service was reduced from every 5 mins to every 8 minutes while (5) service was increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins. Not hard to fathom the (5) becoming a more attractive option for Midday travel then.

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the orange M takes forever to get to 2nd Ave on a weekend because the M doesn't go to 2nd Ave to begin with.

 

i find it hard to believe how the J/Z can be better than the 7...I doubt the J runs 5 minute headways on weekends.

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the orange M takes forever to get to 2nd Ave on a weekend because the M doesn't go to 2nd Ave to begin with.

 

i find it hard to believe how the J/Z can be better than the 7...I doubt the J runs 5 minute headways on weekends.

 

I think the survey is treating the (J)(Z) together as a single line.

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I wouldn't be surprised if a (2) Bronx thru express is introduced again for the most obvious reason. But local riders in the Bronx will object to that idea.

 

When the idea for the (2) Bronx express was last proposed on official levels in 2000, I remember the opposition coming from Dyre Av Line riders, particularly from Morris Park and Coop City, not so much from local riders in the South Bronx.

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My observations are based on this table.

http://www.straphangers.org/statesub11/TableThree.pdf

 

The IRT lines all rate above average for frequency yet the bottom 5 in reliability consists entirely of IRT lines. I don't know why this correlation exists but I would take the high frequency line over the slightly more reliable line any day of the week.

 

I would like all of you to take a GOOD LOOK at the 5 top lines in Breakdown(MDBF) rate and the top IRT line in that category as well. No more shit talking about NTT's on this forum please.

 

All the 'seat chance' category does is lower the rating of the lines that are bigger ASSETS to the system because of heavy ridership. It's also not surprising to see that the NTT lines rank poorly in it for the most part. That is one reason why the ratings don't really matter to me.

 

I find it odd that the (C) ranks at the top in cleanliness while it's yardmate and express cousin the (A) ranks second to last there.

 

The (:( happens to have a bottom 5 frequency and a top 5 seat chance. Those two don't go together so I don't know how that was pulled off.

 

Based off of the comparison chart I would of named the (E) line as the top line.

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the orange M takes forever to get to 2nd Ave on a weekend because the M doesn't go to 2nd Ave to begin with.

 

i find it hard to believe how the J/Z can be better than the 7...I doubt the J runs 5 minute headways on weekends.

The (7) is not as good as it was made out to be in the two previous reports. If it was named the top line again, Gene Russianoff and his buddies would have failed terribly.

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I find it odd that the (C) ranks at the top in cleanliness while it's yardmate and express cousin the (A) ranks second to last there.

 

 

Ever thought that the (A) goes to Queens while the (C) doesn't? That could be a factor, no?

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Ever thought that the (A) goes to Queens while the (C) doesn't? That could be a factor, no?

 

I think it's because the (A)'s long line has made it friendly to the homeless population, in addition to the constant littering on the line.

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