Rbo NYCTA/MTAB merge?

[traildriver]

Thanks for that capsule history....very interesting. I've gleaned some understanding from it, but still not entirely clear, but that's okay, thanks again.

[East New York]

Thanks for that capsule history....very interesting. I've gleaned some understanding from it, but still not entirely clear, but that's okay, thanks again.

 

No problem, but what exactly is it that you don't understand?

[Rob3737]

Non- Civil servant operators,mechanics, and dispatchers ARE NOT permitted to work at Casey Stengal, Jamaica, QV, Meredith, Charleston, Castleton, and Yukon. Management is different but that won't change anytime soon. Those are union rules.

[East New York]

Non- Civil servant operators,mechanics, and dispatchers ARE NOT permitted to work at Casey Stengal, Jamaica, QV, Meredith, Charleston, Castleton, and Yukon.

 

Don't forget 126 street, and all of TA Brooklyn are included as well. In short, non-Civil Servants are not allowed to work (be based) out of any TA depot.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority (OA)-Created so that employees would not be subject to civil service employment rules.

 

Urban legend has it that the only purpose of the non-civil service provision was to protect the jobs of Fifth Avenue Coach's employees, many of whom were illegal immigrants (from Ireland) who would have lost their jobs under civil service.

 

Non- Civil servant operators,mechanics, and dispatchers ARE NOT permitted to work at Casey Stengal, Jamaica, QV, Meredith, Charleston, Castleton, and Yukon. Management is different but that won't change anytime soon. Those are union rules.

 

Up until the early 1980's, even the buses themselves had to be kept separate and distinct at all times and at all costs. There had to be separate bus orders for each authority (the first RTS's were numbered in the 1000's for TA and the 2000's for OA), and buses couldn't be swapped across authorities.

 

Management is different...

 

So are all non-operating titles. Some analysts on the TA payroll work at OA depots, and there are OA analysts working at TA depots (and in the Department of Subways). Plus, all traffic checkers are on the OA payroll but can be assigned to check any TA, OA, or MTAB

[traildriver]

This is what I don't 'get'....if the TA and OA 'merged' a few years back, why aren't all placed into one: union/contract/work rules/hiring procedure/seniority/wage scale/etc., as is done when other businesses 'merge'? Or why call it a 'merge', if it is not?

[East New York]

Urban legend has it that the only purpose of the non-civil service provision was to protect the jobs of Fifth Avenue Coach's employees, many of whom were illegal immigrants (from Ireland) who would have lost their jobs under civil service.

 

Up until the early 1980's, even the buses themselves had to be kept separate and distinct at all times and at all costs. There had to be separate bus orders for each authority (the first RTS's were numbered in the 1000's for TA and the 2000's for OA), and buses couldn't be swapped across authorities.

 

 

Lol at the urban legend! Both divisions are run by the same company, which in turn is run by the government. I'll try to go over that whole thing one day if and when I have time.

 

There was really no need to swap buses between divisions back then.

 

This is what I don't 'get'....if the TA and OA 'merged' a few years back, why aren't all placed into one: union/contract/work rules/hiring procedure/seniority/wage scale/etc., as is done when other businesses 'merge'? Or why call it a 'merge', if it is not?

 

Because it's nowhere near that simple. There is no one definition, or set of rules for a merger. There are like 20 different factors in the MTA situation, but before I touch on a few of them, let me use another "Aviation" example.

 

Delta took over NWA and briefly operated as two separate divisions. Eventually, they merged their fleets, and route networks. However, under the surface they are two different companies. Legally they operate as one. However, NWA is Union, and Delta is not.

 

The TA/OA, and now to a lesser extent BC relationships are very similar.

 

So lets start with TA/OA. First lets remove "Union" from this discussion all together. There will never be just one.

 

TA Brooklyn & Manhattan - TWU

TA Queens & Staten Island - ATU

OA - TWU

 

Work Rules are pretty much the same. Contracts are union issues, and we just established that their will continue to be different unions. Everyone is always screaming "They can't merge because of the unions! How many times do we have to say that!"

 

Well, unions has nothing to do with the actual merger itself. They affect many issues of the merger, but most times than not, unions will never be the main reason as to why a division or company cannot merge.

 

Eventually, MaBSTOA merged with NYCTA on the surface, and for all operating purposes.

 

Eventually, MTAB will merge completely with NYCTA as well. It actually began when MTABBCC was relocated from College Point to East New York, and RBO was formed.

 

BC currently operates similar to how OA once did. Next, the fareboxes, radios, dispatch, and command center will be merged. (2012-2015)

 

At that point, and only at that point will the merger be more or less in the final stages. So taking an educated guess, I figure it will all be NYC Bus in the 2016-2018 range.

 

Theoretically, MTA could re-brand all BC as NYC Bus tomorrow. The division would still remain a subsidiary though.

[traildriver]

Usually when two companies have a merger, one turns out to be the dominant one, and if there are two unions involved, they may start out with status quo with separate contracts and division of work prorated as to what percentage each had prior to the merger. Later on the company may decide to merge the operations into one, and in some a cases, monitored by the National Labor Relations Board, or perhaps the Railway Labor Board, a representation election will be held, and one union will 'win' the right to represent everyone. Once that happens, seniority will be given in as fair a 'prorated' manner as possible again based on what was worked prior. Sometimes there may be prior rights seniority on old territories, with combined seniority for any new hires after the merger. After several years, and normal attrition, the 'grandfathered' seniority members will dwindle to the point where there will just be one system seniority.

No reason why this couldn't happen if the MTA wanted it, so I wouldn't say it could 'never' happen.......

[East New York]

Construction of the new merged NYCT/MTAB Bus Command Center at ENY is scheduled for completion by fall 2018.

 

Usually when two companies have a merger, one turns out to be the dominant one, and if there are two unions involved, they may start out with status quo with separate contracts and division of work prorated as to what percentage each had prior to the merger. Later on the company may decide to merge the operations into one, and in some a cases, monitored by the National Labor Relations Board, or perhaps the Railway Labor Board, a representation election will be held, and one union will 'win' the right to represent everyone. Once that happens, seniority will be given in as fair a 'prorated' manner as possible again based on what was worked prior. Sometimes there may be prior rights seniority on old territories, with combined seniority for any new hires after the merger. After several years, and normal attrition, the 'grandfathered' seniority members will dwindle to the point where there will just be one system seniority.

No reason why this couldn't happen if the MTA wanted it, so I wouldn't say it could 'never' happen.......

 

I see what you are saying, but it's never going to happen(as far as the union). There will never be just one union. It's been that way for decades, and that's likely how it will remain.

[Joel Up Front]

Long Island Bus is a different animal.

 

Nassau County owns the routes, buses, and facilities, and employs the (through the Long Island Bus brand) as a contract carrier. The County has chosen to fire the and hire Veolia as its new contract carrier effective at the end of this year.

 

Thanks, Captain Obvious. Like half of your posts don't say the same thing.

 

Isn't there still some sort of big stink over how MaBSTOA isn't civil service, but they still get civil service status? I had a better idea of it last year, then I forgot about it...

[East New York]

Merger updates?

 

*With the next contracts, MTA Bus Co. drivers are said to receive epic passes.

*MTAB and NYCT farebox systems are set to be merged and upgraded to the new system which will include the new Automated Farecard Access System in 2014 and 2015. MetroCards will continue to be used until the new fare payment system is fully developed.

*MTAB and NYCT bus radios will be replaced and command center operations merged at ENY by 2018. I would assume the merger would be complete then.

[Culver]

Merger updates?

 

*With the next contracts, MTA Bus Co. drivers are said to receive epic passes.

*MTAB and NYCT farebox systems are set to be merged and upgraded to the new system which will include the new Automated Farecard Access System in 2014 and 2015. MetroCards will continue to be used until the new fare payment system is fully developed.

*MTAB and NYCT bus radios will be replaced and command center operations merged at ENY by 2018. I would assume the merger would be complete then.

2018? They sure move fast.

[Metro CSW]

Excellent news, ENY!

[dmouse]

Will the buses all say New York City Bus?

 

Or still be separate?

[East New York]

The word is all NYC Bus. But that is not yet official.

[User]

That certainly is good news. If that is true, I'm gonna miss Bus.

[Grand Concourse]

Merger updates?

 

*With the next contracts, MTA Bus Co. drivers are said to receive epic passes.

*MTAB and NYCT farebox systems are set to be merged and upgraded to the new system which will include the new Automated Farecard Access System in 2014 and 2015. MetroCards will continue to be used until the new fare payment system is fully developed.

*MTAB and NYCT bus radios will be replaced and command center operations merged at ENY by 2018. I would assume the merger would be complete then.

this is fantastic news, I can't wait for the potential route swaps/merging/restructuring. It's been long overdue.

[Culver]

The word is all NYC Bus. But that is not yet official.

If I read correctly, they have until 2018 to decide, right? Or would rebranding happen earlier, with the farebox updates?

 

New York City Bus

 

Eh, I would've preferred Bus to be the name, since it's shorter.

[Grand Concourse]

Why drop the 'NYC' off? We should be proud of our system. Plus there's other 'mtas' out there.

[Culver]

Why drop the 'NYC' off? We should be proud of our system. Plus there's other 'mtas' out there.

Just because Bus is shorter, that's it. Also, having it that way means they can do that "all operations one name" thing when Nassau residents eventually throw out Mangano and let the NICE contract expire.

[NYCtrainfan01]

I personally prefer Bus than New York City Bus on the buses though...

 

Maybe labeling Regional Bus on the buses? Just an opinion... Glad there is some progress on the merger!

[transit bx]

Merger updates?

 

*With the next contracts, MTA Bus Co. drivers are said to receive epic passes.

*MTAB and NYCT farebox systems are set to be merged and upgraded to the new system which will include the new Automated Farecard Access System in 2014 and 2015. MetroCards will continue to be used until the new fare payment system is fully developed.

*MTAB and NYCT bus radios will be replaced and command center operations merged at ENY by 2018. I would assume the merger would be complete then.

This is very good news ENY, i was getting ready to give up on MTAB i even filed for OA 3101, i guess i may have  wasted 61 dollers lol. Well the other day i did run into a friend of mines that works as a dispatch in the command center which he did tell me something big is getting ready to go down with MTAB soon. Now that your putting this good news out in the open, im assuming thats what he was talking about. I also heard our U pass is actually in the next contract as well which was said from our Vice Pres for MTAB and that he's really trying to work on that pension system, lets just say he's fighting to get what OA have. 

[Guest Charles]

I personally prefer Bus than New York City Bus on the buses though...

 

Maybe labeling Regional Bus on the buses? Just an opinion... Glad there is some progress on the merger!

I think if you add the word "regional" to the branding, it sort of loses the whole meaning of "city." 

 

I personally prefer New York City Bus, so it can complement the New York City Subway logo on trains.

[GreatOne2k]

What about the 100% reimbursement? MTA Bus must remain separate for funding issues, unless they are losing the funding for the MTA Bus routes.

[Grand Concourse]

Just because Bus is shorter, that's it. Also, having it that way means they can do that "all operations one name" thing when Nassau residents eventually throw out Mangano and let the NICE contract expire.

i dunno, I just don't see Nassau bringing back lib. They told the mta to shove off in refusing to pay. I think the bus system should focus more on the 5 boroughs anyway.