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East New York

The Millennium RTS Discussion

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Breaking News Update

 

According to new developments, MTS could possibly submit their preliminary proposal for the 42.5 foot low floor BRT model to MTA by the end of this month! The basic specifications of the bus are now complete, and pending approval and go-ahead from the CEO of MTS.

 

If all goes as well as it can, MTA and MTS could reach a preliminary agreement for the build and delivery of 90 test buses before Christmas!

 

For those of you that do not know, MTS recently bid on Chicago Transit Authority's solicitation for up to 450 standard 40 foot RTS Extreme buses. Should MTS be awarded part or all of this contract, history will be made. Stay tuned, as everyone is waiting on word out of Chicago any day now!

 

Good luck MTS!

 

Great update ENY! Thanks! Best of luck to MTS!

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Breaking News Update

 

According to new developments, MTS could possibly submit their preliminary proposal for the 42.5 foot low floor BRT model to MTA by the end of this month! The basic specifications of the bus are now complete, and pending approval and go-ahead from the CEO of MTS.

 

If all goes as well as it can, MTA and MTS could reach a preliminary agreement for the build and delivery of 90 test buses before Christmas!

 

For those of you that do not know, MTS recently bid on Chicago Transit Authority's solicitation for up to 450 standard 40 foot RTS Extreme buses. Should MTS be awarded part or all of this contract, history will be made. Stay tuned, as everyone is waiting on word out of Chicago any day now!

 

Good luck MTS!

 

Woot woot!

 

Best of luck to them! Let's give the RTS its well-deserved NYC comeback!

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Build and delivery of 90 buses before christmas?!?!!!? thats like crazy fast! it took those BT&E buses 3-4 months to deliver. and the xcelsior still isnt complete. lets goo MTS!!

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I was giving up hope on MTS because I didn't hear anything. I really hope they break in the Market, and make their haters step aside.

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RTS, though I like them, they are really past their time. The LFS makes a lovely successor in my opinion.

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Breaking News Update

 

According to new developments, MTS could possibly submit their preliminary proposal for the 42.5 foot low floor BRT model to MTA by the end of this month! The basic specifications of the bus are now complete, and pending approval and go-ahead from the CEO of MTS.

 

If all goes as well as it can, MTA and MTS could reach a preliminary agreement for the build and delivery of 90 test buses before Christmas!

 

For those of you that do not know, MTS recently bid on Chicago Transit Authority's solicitation for up to 450 standard 40 foot RTS Extreme buses. Should MTS be awarded part or all of this contract, history will be made. Stay tuned, as everyone is waiting on word out of Chicago any day now!

 

Good luck MTS!

 

 

Tell them to make two for us.

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Update????? I guess.....

 

I was giving up hope on MTS because I didn't hear anything. I really hope they break in the Market, and make their haters step aside.

 

 

From what I see, they are just wanting to make sure all their ducks are in a row. As I say this, I will also add in that fact that no deal will be made with MTA for anything before 2013.

 

So this is what we have.

 

Fact 1. MTA is the only agency that is requiring MTS complete shaker and string gauge testing before the buses can enter service. This situation is similar to how New Flyer has entered the program with the XD60.

 

New Flyer foot the bill to build 2 pilot buses. One was used for the shaker, and the other for revenue service. If MTA rejects the buses, NF is left to sell them to another agency.

 

MTS can do the same thing, but it would not be smart to do so at this moment in time. Since MTS will have to pay quite a few hundred grand for the shaker, they can afford to delay things.

 

After the low floor returns to Aloona, and MTS is ready to complete the shaker, we will have the first indicator of what will come next.

 

Verdict: The shaker is holding things up. MTA is ordering 690 new buses. If the RTS LF enters NBQP near mid-delivery, MTS would have had a chance to secure other contracts, build buses, then put a bus through the shaker for the MTA.

 

Fact 2: On the flipside, if MTA formally agreed to order all 90 buses upon completion of shaker and initial revenue service testing, MTS could justify building the buses for MTA sooner than later.

 

 

 

High Floor news:

 

MTA is not really liking the fact that the bus only has 49 seats, and is more interested in the low floor line-up anyway from what I understand. I have no idea what is to come of this one. Either way, the HF would have to go through the shaker as well.

 

Stay tuned. I have a headache... :blink:

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Is the shaker test in question the standard Altoona one, or is it a separate test that the MTA requires?

 

That's actually a good question. If I remember correctly, NYMTA is the only TA in the U.S that requires a shaker test.

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A random thought. I wonder how similar a 2013 MTS RTS Legend with a DD11 and Allison B400R would preform compared to a 1993 TMC RTS with a DD50 and Allison V731?

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Is the shaker test in question the standard Altoona one, or is it a separate test that the MTA requires?

 

 

Separate. See below.

 

That's actually a good question. If I remember correctly, NYMTA is the only TA in the U.S that requires a shaker test.

 

 

MTA is the only one. That's why this is a major issue for MTS. They would rather deliver buses to other agencies first, and complete a shaker down the line. Which actually makes perfect sense. Unless the MTA is willing to pay for it, why spend $1 Million to send a 30 year old structure through a series of test that we all know what the results will be? I think people fail to realize that Nova created and engineered what is now an MTS Product in 2000 IIRC. The first 42.5 footer was built in 2002. The only thing that has really changed is ownership. Some of the culture has cone back to the TMC days, and thats how it feels now. The top 2 guys in the shop, who still to this day get out into the plant and build RTS's by hand have been doing it for decades. They built TMC buses that we know were hard core. Remember 8600-8703?? That was their favorite series. Now that they are back in the game decades later with a new name, their pride and joy are the ex-NJT and Pueblo MTS buses.

 

The new MTS is nothing more than a reincarnated TMC.... That's who works there now. Ex GMC/TMC/Nova guys. I now realize that people think that it's just some new company trying to hold on to a legacy. However, Millennium Transit Services may have build what may be the strongest RTS buses ever known. TAMU, which has 25 coaches say they have been the most cost effective buses they have ever purchased and would never consider another product if they didn't have to. Well, this also comes from every other operator of the buses.

 

The RTS Extreme Low Floor, is the ONLY low floor platform available that is based completely off the high floor model. It's not an all new bus. Nova made the decision to take an RTS, and drop the front section, and throw in a T-Drive, and update some things. Brilliant. And the T-Drives that are running around as we speak were Altoona tested in 2005 by Nova in a CNG version, then again by MTS in 2006 as a Diesel.

 

The 40 foot LF built by MTS went to Altoona and preformed exceptionally until a hydraulic leak in the engine compartment sparked a fire. It was not too serious, and the bus did not need to be scrapped, and would be restored. However, a series of events, would stop everything. The NJT cancellation, cost of Altoona testing, and height of the recession on the horizon, it was a wrap. This same team of bus builders didn't have Nova money funding their operations anymore. MTS is American, with a GMC soul in my opinion.

 

Altoota Quote: "RTS is always the easiest to test. It's so predictable. We love when you bring them up here!"

 

Never been through a shaker outside of Altoona in 35 years. BTW, this is the 35th Anniversary of the RTS.

 

MTA however is justified. It's no offence to MTS, but they require a shaker by a qualified shaker and string gauge company. And Altoona isn't going to cut it for them. This is because MTA has greater demands than any other agency known. That's why they are in the elite crew with TTC, that expect more than just a common bus. I guarantee if you take a few buses and put them through an MTA shaker, they will not pass. Daimler did not pass with the first Orion 7, and New Flyer did not pass with the XD60 test. So both companies had to make a stronger bus.

 

The MTA shaker actually promotes excellence.

 

A quote from one of my favorite people on earth and one of the coolest guys I know, "I built their damn 8600's, they don't need a shaker!"

 

However, because the Nova T-Drive was never introduced to MTA, and the bus no longer needs a rear bulkhead made like the one MTA has had some issues with, they want a full test. And rightfully so.

 

 

A random thought. I wonder how similar a 2013 MTS RTS Legend with a DD11 and Allison B400R would preform compared to a 1993 TMC RTS with a DD50 and Allison V731?

 

 

Even thought the new Detroit Diesel is a Daimler product, it is still made in Detroit, and I would imagine it would be comparable. The B400R is a V-Drive, and to date the MTS RTS's have only had ZF transmissions.

 

I imagine it would sound similar to MTA buses 4899, & 5361-5363, which have yet to be delivered.

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Really I don't mind the sound (though it is a bonus), rather the classic combination of an RTS with the Detroit/Allison couple proved to be reliable by lasting more than 20 years in most cases, so I wonder if the newer version of their products will fair the same. I'm sure they will.

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I imagine it would sound similar to MTA buses 4899, & 5361-5363, which have yet to be delivered.

 

Apparently 4899 is gonna have a Navistar Maxxforce instead, I heard the MTA didn't like its first engine (assumed to be DD11) and that the LFSes might have Volvo engines instead.

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Apparently 4899 is gonna have a Navistar Maxxforce instead, I heard the MTA didn't like its first engine (assumed to be DD11) and that the LFSes might have Volvo engines instead.

 

 

Could be possible for 4899, however, Volvo doesn't have an engine for the LFS/A, so I don't see that happening at all unless they manufactured a new engine that I know nothing about.....

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Could be possible for 4899, however, Volvo doesn't have an engine for the LFS/A, so I don't see that happening at all unless they manufactured a new engine that I know nothing about.....

 

 

You can't use the ones in the Preyvosts? too big?

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The B400R is a T-Drive configuration.

The V730/1 is V-Drive configuration.

 

V731 is the best transmission IMHO. I love how it changes gears. Any engine, V731 and I'm happy.

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Even thought the new Detroit Diesel is a Daimler product, it is still made in Detroit, and I would imagine it would be comparable. The B400R is a V-Drive, and to date the MTS RTS's have only had ZF transmissions.

 

I imagine it would sound similar to MTA buses 4899, & 5361-5363, which have yet to be delivered.

 

 

Can the LFS not get a Cummins engine if the DD11 doesn't come through, or if Volvo can't come through either? Any details on the DD11? I was actually looking forward to it.

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Can the LFS not get a Cummins engine if the DD11 doesn't come through, or if Volvo can't come through either? Any details on the DD11? I was actually looking forward to it.

 

 

I'm not quite sure what you are asking here.....

 

And no, there has not been any news on the DD11 as of late.

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